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GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES
Pedophile encirclement

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SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



Two points cannot make a circle so beria and Stalin was not a pedophile ring. Next!

THS
Sep 15, 2017

Emmideer
Oct 20, 2011

Lovely night, no?
Grimey Drawer

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

Two points cannot make a circle so beria and Stalin was not a pedophile ring. Next!

2 of 8 of the politburo, i mean who cares, probably nothing

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

i mean there is a clear qualitative difference between one guy who eventually got executed and what appears to be a massive group of people who will never see the inside of a jail cell

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

La! La! La! Laaaa!



College Slice

R. Guyovich posted:

i mean there is a clear qualitative difference between one guy who eventually got executed and what appears to be a massive group of people who will never see the inside of a jail cell

Is it that the kids they raped spoke different languages?

MizPiz
May 29, 2013

by Athanatos
What if the Cold War was a sham and USSR and America were actually controlled by the same pedo ring?

Rated PG-34
Jul 1, 2004




drat it’s just like Marx said. the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of pedo-ring struggle

smarxist
Jul 26, 2018

by Fluffdaddy
https://twitter.com/socializm_/status/1161300460931899397?s=19

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Lumpy posted:

Is it that the kids they raped spoke different languages?

Beria was arrested, incarcerated, survived to be put to trial, sentenced, and executed.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Beria was arrested, incarcerated, survived to be put to trial, sentenced, and executed.

Khruschev was Q

MizPiz
May 29, 2013

by Athanatos
Ignore

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

gradenko_2000 posted:

Beria was arrested, incarcerated, survived to be put to trial, sentenced, and executed.

so you're saying USSR officials were much less likely to spill the beans

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

(and can't post for 23 days!)

gradenko_2000 posted:

Beria was arrested, incarcerated, survived to be put to trial, sentenced, and executed.

Sure, but not for raping and murdering women. Beria couldn't really be nailed for being a sex predator because there's no good way to investigate the head of the secret police. None of his victims could come forward because if they did he'd just have them gulag'd on trumped up charges, and all the other evidence was buried in his rose garden. But his aide was keeping handwritten copies of Beria's black book which he ordered him to destroy, and they were building up a case against Beria shortly before Stalin died. The Politburo effectively had to wait for Beria to commit a political crime, and once he suggested giving up East Germany after the Berlin uprising it was enough for Kruschev to organize the conspiracy to oust him. Beria and his clique were all rounded up and charged with being agents of British intelligence and doing other counter revolutionary activities, but never for raping and murdering women and teenagers.

They never charged him for the other stuff because it would've been too damaging to the image of the state if they admitted that they all knew about his serial rape, but didn't do anything about it because he was head of the NKVD.

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuHOBjKueKs

Captain Billy Pissboy
Oct 25, 2005

by Nyc_Tattoo
College Slice

smarxist
Jul 26, 2018

by Fluffdaddy
https://twitter.com/weirdrussia_com/status/1158467150610423808

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991


lmao

Hilario Baldness
Feb 10, 2005

:buddy:



Grimey Drawer
Just finished reading Walter Rodney's posthumously published 'The Russian Revolution: A View from the Third World.' When Verso had a 90% off sale on ebooks I got that and 'How Europe Underdeveloped Africa' since the latter appeared on the reading list from McCaine. It should definitely be added to the master list, it's extremely good.

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

Hilario Baldness posted:

Just finished reading Walter Rodney's posthumously published 'The Russian Revolution: A View from the Third World.' When Verso had a 90% off sale on ebooks I got that and 'How Europe Underdeveloped Africa' since the latter appeared on the reading list from McCaine. It should definitely be added to the master list, it's extremely good.

they're both very good and verso needs to be publishing more like them instead of crypto-trot bullshit

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

Pray for Answer

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Sure, but not for raping and murdering women. Beria couldn't really be nailed for being a sex predator because there's no good way to investigate the head of the secret police. None of his victims could come forward because if they did he'd just have them gulag'd on trumped up charges, and all the other evidence was buried in his rose garden. But his aide was keeping handwritten copies of Beria's black book which he ordered him to destroy, and they were building up a case against Beria shortly before Stalin died. The Politburo effectively had to wait for Beria to commit a political crime, and once he suggested giving up East Germany after the Berlin uprising it was enough for Kruschev to organize the conspiracy to oust him. Beria and his clique were all rounded up and charged with being agents of British intelligence and doing other counter revolutionary activities, but never for raping and murdering women and teenagers.

They never charged him for the other stuff because it would've been too damaging to the image of the state if they admitted that they all knew about his serial rape, but didn't do anything about it because he was head of the NKVD.

so what you’re telling me is that ACAB

Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010
i mean there's really no difference between the guy who fantasizes about being in charge of secret police now and the guy who actually signed up for one when the position opened.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
I just finished reading Wage Labour and Capital this week. It's not quite something I'd recommend as an introductory text, but it was pretty short and not nearly as difficult to grasp as I thought it was. The main takeaways I had was an explanation for the Tendency of the Rate of Profit to Fall, and an explicit tackling of the proletarianization of labour that I'd not previously encountered textually.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

(and can't post for 23 days!)

That's good because TRPF is probably the most important Marxist concept, but also the least examined in literature. I get it but still have difficulty explaining it.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
My take on it:

quote:

In a market, the capitalist can only beat his competitors by selling their product for cheaper

In order to sell product for cheaper without bankrupting themselves, the capitalist needs to maximize the amount of product produced, for the least cost, i.e. "increasing the productive forces of labour as much as possible"

The process of "increasing the productive forces of labour" includes both dividing the production process into simpler and simpler actions (i.e. proletarianization of labour), and then also the mechanization and automation of labour. The simpler the task, the more it can be divided across workers, and the more that machinery can multiply the productivity of workers.

By applying these methods, the capitalist can find a way to produce the same Thing, but with less labour-time. The example that "Wage Labour and Capital" uses is producing a yard of linen with the same labour-time that competitors need to produce just half a yard.

The capitalist could try to keep selling the Thing at the same price that they already do, but they would not do that, because it does not help them drive their competitors out of business, and it does not enlarge their market (i.e. if you stay at the same price, no new customers get priced-in), and they need that increased market-share and that enlarged market to be able to sell all the additional Things that they've been able to produce.

At the same time though, the capitalist also is not going to try to keep selling their One Yard of Linen at the same price as Half A Yard of Linen that their competitors sell at, because that yields zero profit.

Instead, the capitalist is going to undercut the prices of their competitors, but somewhere between the original price, and the reduced cost of his increased productive forces.

Now, if we consider that the price of a good always has to be above the cost of production, then the price is only going to exist within this narrow band: a floor of the cost to produce it, and a ceiling of the price needed to undercut the competition relative to the cheaper cost of production (obtained by increasing the productive forces of labour).

However, whatever advantage the capitalist gains from all this is fleeting: eventually other capitalists will start using machinery themselves, will also divide the labour like they have, and so on, and so everyone will eventually reduce their own costs of production to the point where everyone's cost of production is lower than even the standard set by the that leading capitalist we used as our example above.

And once that happens, then we're back to where we were at the start of this cycle, except everyone is now producing twice as many Things, and everyone needs to sell twice as many Things just to yield the same profit as before.

But the market isn't going to scale like that forever: even if you keep driving prices down, eventually you're going to hit a limit on how low the price can go, and eventually you're going to hit a limit on how many more people can start buying the Thing at the new lower price that they couldn't before.

Once you hit market saturation, you're not going to be able to sell as much (or sell at the same price) as you were before, and therefore your Rate Of Profit Has A Tendency To Fall.

From here we can also start seeing that the reaction to such a situation is to open up new markets... which then starts leading us down the path of colonialism and imperialism as outgrowths of capitalism.

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN
That's not a bad starting point for helping someone grasp the basic microeconomic assumptions that structure the LTV but as an actual explanation of real world economic phenomenon it leaves out the most important features of the modern capitalist economy such as monopoly pricing power, intellectual property and regulatory capture.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

(and can't post for 23 days!)

Helsing posted:

That's not a bad starting point for helping someone grasp the basic microeconomic assumptions that structure the LTV but as an actual explanation of real world economic phenomenon it leaves out the most important features of the modern capitalist economy such as monopoly pricing power, intellectual property and regulatory capture.

Yes but the TRPF still applies, because even if some firms can maintain profitability through monopolistic power it also edges out other capitalists from the market. With monopolistic pricing, people become encouraged to seek substitutes. So you still have less profitability in the market, even if the individual firm makes more profit from its unique powers.

Wal Mart is a pretty perfect example of how a single firm can profit immensely by exploiting economies of scale despite the TRPF, while destroying smaller firms who cannot achieve the same scale of distribution.

Aeolius
Jul 16, 2003

Simon Templeman Fanclub

gradenko_2000 posted:

My take on it:


From here we can also start seeing that the reaction to such a situation is to open up new markets... which then starts leading us down the path of colonialism and imperialism as outgrowths of capitalism.

This is good.

IMO the simplest point is that the RoP falling/OCC rising are a wholly expected behavior when we're talking about the ratio between a flow (surplus value) that is ultimately bounded by the limits of human anatomy, working population, and the hours of the day, and a stock (capital) that steadily compounds on the basis of said flow.

Usually the sticking point is less about grasping that basic relationship and more about people being unwilling to accept the category of surplus value for some fool reason or other.

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

https://twitter.com/NorthKoreaDPRK/status/1162468822470864896

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

Lenin was Nazbol - Timmy Age 6

https://twitter.com/kiridifferent_/status/1162328112354381824?s=20

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007
Communist into Nationale

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1162933513924075521?s=20

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

I bought the German Ideology, Malraux' the Human Condition and Agulhon's 1848 at a book fair today

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy



get a load of this rear end in a top hat

3
Aug 26, 2006

The Magic Number


College Slice

gradenko_2000 posted:




get a load of this rear end in a top hat

OH WHAT GAVE YOU THAT IDEA

Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

gradenko_2000 posted:




get a load of this rear end in a top hat

tfw you destroy the worlds greatest force against capitalism so you can get some stuffed crust

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

(and can't post for 23 days!)

Aeolius posted:

This is good.

IMO the simplest point is that the RoP falling/OCC rising are a wholly expected behavior when we're talking about the ratio between a flow (surplus value) that is ultimately bounded by the limits of human anatomy, working population, and the hours of the day, and a stock (capital) that steadily compounds on the basis of said flow.

Usually the sticking point is less about grasping that basic relationship and more about people being unwilling to accept the category of surplus value for some fool reason or other.

I don't think the problem is people being able to accept "surplus value" but being able to accept that it's wrong or exploitative.

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Aeolius
Jul 16, 2003

Simon Templeman Fanclub
I guess it depends on the circles you move in; my perspective is colored by dealing with a lot of people with backgrounds in bourgeois economics. You're probably right as far as the general populace is concerned.

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