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it’s quite instructive that farmers generally get huge subsidies from the state and foolishly convince themselves of their financial prowess and become a reliable voting block for conservatives
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Aug 18, 2019 14:50
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Elman posted:How do they enforce this, exactly. By making it a crime for union reps not to order striking employees back to work. Makes organizing an entire workforce pretty much impossible!
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Aug 18, 2019 15:05
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Jel Shaker posted:it’s quite instructive that farmers generally get huge subsidies from the state and foolishly convince themselves of their financial prowess and become a reliable voting block for conservatives Farmers used to be pretty socialist.
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Aug 18, 2019 15:57
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well if there's one thing we know it's that farmers love free poo poo
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Aug 18, 2019 16:08
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Zzulu posted:It's absolutely hilarious / depressing to me, as a Swede, to see brainwashed Americans talking about unions like they're... i dont know, evil? Communist?? Like how did that even happen? Did rich people just tell the masses that it's in their best interest to let the rich people dictate terms somehow? Where's the logic? I don't get it! historically unions were literally violently oppressed here, but they got really popular around the time of the great depression. and a big reason for that was the organized communists doing the labor organizing. but these highly effective ideological organizers as opposed to people just in it for the raises or whatever got purged during the 50s, and within like 20 years unions and their public image kind of fell apart because suddenly all their effective leaders and organizers are being questioned by Congress
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Aug 18, 2019 16:10
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https://youtu.be/-gbEKy7eJak
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Aug 18, 2019 16:14
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Aug 18, 2019 16:28
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Holy poo poo, I'm joining that guy's union, he's smoking an ounce at once
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Aug 18, 2019 17:44
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Larry Parrish posted:historically unions were literally violently oppressed here, but they got really popular around the time of the great depression. and a big reason for that was the organized communists doing the labor organizing. but these highly effective ideological organizers as opposed to people just in it for the raises or whatever got purged during the 50s, and within like 20 years unions and their public image kind of fell apart because suddenly all their effective leaders and organizers are being questioned by Congress https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcEfOcEsbDc
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Aug 18, 2019 18:04
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as always industry is blameless and government is nonexistent
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Aug 18, 2019 18:23
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T-man posted:Holy poo poo, I'm joining that guy's union, he's smoking an ounce at once mad respect for a man who rolls a $250 dollar blunt
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Aug 18, 2019 18:59
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Throughout history almost all serious worker reforms have been gained through illegal action. Anything that has a decent change of making conditions better for the working class will be made illegal as government is there to protect capital and not citizens.
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Aug 18, 2019 20:44
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Zzulu posted:It's absolutely hilarious / depressing to me, as a Swede, to see brainwashed Americans talking about unions like they're... i dont know, evil? Communist?? Like how did that even happen? Did rich people just tell the masses that it's in their best interest to let the rich people dictate terms somehow? Where's the logic? I don't get it! the us federal government dedicated itself to the destruction of unions as a matter of self-preservation (for the capital class) from 1880 through to the 1960s strikes often were broken by the simple of expedient of sending in the army and killing the strikers until it stopped and the FBI was created specifically to help round up trade unionists our unions are toothless (can't mandate union membership in a shop, can't lawfully strike except in very specific ways because the most effective strike methods were banned in 1947, and its legal for corporations to just fire everyone and move the business to another shop, or for the government to fire every public employee who dares strike) and their leadership is often beholden to capital because the ones who weren't were murdered for generations.
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Aug 18, 2019 22:25
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Wow well uh That's kind of bad
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Aug 18, 2019 22:48
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The unions where I'm from are mostly hot garbage. The public workers have a good one, the nurses have a good one but all the industrial unions are awful. The steamfitters/pipefitters union had a vote when most of their constituents were working on a giant project and unable to attend the vote, it was done on purpose to claw back overtime rates. The electrician's union routinely engages in bullshit strongarm tactics to make life awful for low-voltage technicians who, coincidentally, aren't part of their union. Most of my union experience was just unions mollycoddling malingerers and engaging in clique-y high school politics while siphoning off fees and having reps that were probably shuttled to work on a short bus.
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Aug 18, 2019 22:51
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loving hell, America should really just have a revolution at this point, huh?
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Aug 18, 2019 22:52
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Rarity posted:loving hell, America should really just have a revolution at this point, huh? Good luck telling people that. Entirely too many people genuinely believe that Unions = Bad and that we don't need living wages across the board. We're all one day away from becoming rich
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Aug 18, 2019 22:58
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autism ZX spectrum posted:The unions where I'm from are mostly hot garbage. The public workers have a good one, the nurses have a good one but all the industrial unions are awful. The steamfitters/pipefitters union had a vote when most of their constituents were working on a giant project and unable to attend the vote, it was done on purpose to claw back overtime rates. The electrician's union routinely engages in bullshit strongarm tactics to make life awful for low-voltage technicians who, coincidentally, aren't part of their union. Most of my union experience was just unions mollycoddling malingerers and engaging in clique-y high school politics while siphoning off fees and having reps that were probably shuttled to work on a short bus. All this, and you aren't even into the apprenticeship selection process yet. Unions dug their own grave.
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Aug 18, 2019 22:59
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Len posted:Good luck telling people that. Entirely too many people genuinely believe that Unions = Bad and that we don't need living wages across the board. You are one day away from becoming rich though. That day is just the day that you destroy the class system and take back what the rich stole from you.
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Aug 18, 2019 23:04
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Don't even get me loving started on union apprenticeships. There's a for-profit college here that's been breaking the apprenticeship program piecemeal for the past two decades. Used to be you'd ring up an HVAC/Plumbing/Electrical/Welding/Heavy Equipment company and they'd hire you as a helper. If you weren't completely and totally useless after a year or two you'd get to apprentice. The employer would then pay for the process while you worked. Since that college has co-opted things, before you even get to do grunt work for $2 above minimum wage you've got to spend a year in school doing "Intro to HVAC" or whatever for 10 grand. Right now if your dad or uncle aren't in the union you're not getting in. I've had my resume at the plumber's union for years waiting for a call to be the guy who holds the bucket to catch loose turds. The one time I got an interview for a job is when I showed up in person to apply and they mistook me for another applicant who went to the above mentioned college. I've literally met a boomer that got his union job when one day he was walking home and walked past a road repair crew who were short a guy. He must have dawdled or something 'cos the foreman called out to him and asked if he wanted to drive a tractor that day. He became a heavy equipment operator and retired at 55.
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Aug 18, 2019 23:06
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Rarity posted:loving hell, America should really just have a revolution at this point, huh? You can't have good things without good people and that's why America has no good unions 
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Aug 18, 2019 23:18
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quote:I suffer from depression too, and at one point I wanted to quit Amazon. But I realized it was my fault for the problems I was dealing with, and not Amazon's.
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Aug 18, 2019 23:36
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MRC48B posted:All this, and you aren't even into the apprenticeship selection process yet. Unions dug their own grave. i mean you could kind of blame the laborers for letting it happen but that would be kind of like blaming slaves for their failed slave rebellion as they go back to being slaves
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Aug 19, 2019 00:31
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you literally got union leaders in the US and mexico saying don't strike, ok we got concessions now lets end the strike and the workers arent having it and ignore the union leaders and strike anyway, clearly showing the disconnect from how the union has been organized to run and what workers want lol @ blaming unions for digging their own grave in such circumstances
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Aug 19, 2019 00:34
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if you got union leaders not representing the workers and very obviously telling them to do things the vast majority don't want to do, the union leaders are basically loving middle management
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Aug 19, 2019 00:36
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comedyblissoption posted:the union leaders are basically loving middle management It's this.
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Aug 19, 2019 00:54
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autism ZX spectrum posted:and engaging in clique-y high school politics Boy have I got some bad news for you about every trade/labor/plant job in America. High school stops when your pulse does.
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Aug 19, 2019 01:12
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comedyblissoption posted:lol @ blaming unions for digging their own grave in such circumstances I was specifically referring to the recruiting process. The government and big business don't control that. Modern skilled trade unions are absolutely garbage at bringing in new blood. They poo poo on prospective apprenticeship candidates, and are extremely hostile to non-union workers, regardless of whether those workers are sympathetic to the union or not.
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Aug 19, 2019 01:23
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Rarity posted:loving hell, America should really just have a revolution at this point, huh? the last (and only) time we had strong unions saw the government (FDR) desperately pleading with the rich to allow social democratic reforms because the communist party was insanely popular and specifically in the south you had a bunch of worker's militias popping up to protect mostly black sharecroppers lol
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Aug 19, 2019 01:58
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quote:La Follette's platform was based on many of the issues that he had been campaigning on throughout his political career.[97] He called for government ownership of the railroads and electric utilities, cheap credit for farmers, the outlawing of child labor, stronger laws to help labor unions, more protection of civil liberties, an end to American imperialism in Latin America, and a referendum before any president could again lead the nation into war.[citation needed] Professional gamblers initially gave La Follette a 16-to-1 odds of winning, and many expected that his candidacy would force a contingent election in the House of Representatives. As election day approached, however, those hoping for a La Follette victory became more pessimistic. The various groups supporting La Follette often clashed, and his campaign was not nearly as well-financed as those of Davis and especially Coolidge. Corporate leaders, who saw in La Follette the specter of class warfare, mobilized against his third-party candidacy. Republicans campaigned on a "Coolidge or chaos" platform, arguing that the election of La Follette would severely disrupt economic growth.[98] Having little fear of a Democratic victory, the Republican Party mainly focused its campaign attacks on La Follette.[99]
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Aug 19, 2019 02:07
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Its intentionally suppressed history that the US is actually historically very leftist among the working class, it's just that we have an intentionally antidemocratic election system so they've never held official power federally. Most states are also highly anti democratic so it's rare there too.
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Aug 19, 2019 02:14
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Taintrunner posted:
There a source for this one?
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Aug 19, 2019 02:14
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atelier morgan posted:the us federal government dedicated itself to the destruction of unions as a matter of self-preservation (for the capital class) from 1880 through to the 1960s this is the correct answer. unions were legally disemboweled in very specific ways as a result of which they are forced to choose between the remaining benefits of operating within federal law (which include sufficient professional and financial resources to help unrepresented employees mount organizing campaigns) and the absurd limits imposed by federal law. despite which, at least in the variety of heavy industries i’ve had contact with, the union workers were significantly less heavily hosed than the non union ones (e.g., not being literally forced to stand -no sitting- outside, in the sun, during brief breaks in sweltering southern US, having rights to basic safety gear beyond that required by OSHA rules, effective grievance rights etc.). repeal taft hartley, and organize broadly on an industrial, rather than shop, basis and things would begin to change quickly
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Aug 19, 2019 02:40
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Elman posted:How do they enforce this, exactly. Yeah, the entire federal workforce not only is forbidden from striking but can be told to work without pay to boot (see the government shutdown last year.) Primarily though this is really just a problem with the current union leaders' unwillingness to engage in wildcat strikes and "illegal" strikes frequently.
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Aug 19, 2019 06:54
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El Mero Mero posted:Primarily though this is really just a problem with the current union leaders' unwillingness to engage in wildcat strikes and "illegal" strikes frequently. The unwillingness to go to jail in hopes that the outcome will be similar to the Postal strike of 1970 as opposed to Reagan taking a scythe through the ATC union is SUCH a petty thing to be concerned about! Oh yeah and ofc depending on your contract and what part of the federal government you work for not only can you just be fired but you might have accidentally committed a federal crime by striking.
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Aug 19, 2019 09:35
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Forceholy posted:53% of white women voted for Trump of the people that voted, 53% of white women voted for trump. including non-voters paints a different picture. if you counted up the % of eligible voters that voted for trump the number would be a fair bit lower, i think.
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Aug 19, 2019 09:53
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Sedisp posted:Oh yeah and ofc depending on your contract and what part of the federal government you work for not only can you just be fired but you might have accidentally committed a federal crime by striking.
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Aug 19, 2019 10:37
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comedyblissoption posted:it's almost as if cops are there to prevent workers from getting uppity The cops will be repurposed into Brand Compliance Officers as soon as they come up with a more marketable acronym.
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Aug 19, 2019 10:48
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Sedisp posted:The cops will be repurposed into Brand Compliance Officers as soon as they come up with a more marketable acronym. e: never mind
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Aug 19, 2019 11:30
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Sedisp posted:The cops will be repurposed into Brand Compliance Officers as soon as they come up with a more marketable acronym. Attendant for Compliance towards Associated Brands
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Aug 19, 2019 12:45
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