|
Didn't realise Philip K Dick was a cspam poster
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 14:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 06:33 |
|
|
is bernie considered an ancient
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 14:02
|
|
|
Not sure what I like more, lost tartary or phantom time theory
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 14:03
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:What happened to the mississipian mound builders Pretty sure the story I read was they had a series of bad droughts that dispersed them away from the centralized system they were living in and back to smaller organization edit: and, of course, smallpox Peanut President has issued a correction as of 14:17 on Aug 20, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 14:12
|
|
|
I will sodomize you and face gently caress you-- Aurelius, you cocksucker; Furius, you little bitch-- since you think that my little poems have gone soft and I must not be too upright! It’s true; the devoted poet should stand erect in his values, but not necessarily in his little poems, which are truly witty and charming when they're a little soft, and not too stiff, but can still cause a little tingling-- I don't just mean for youth, but for hairy men who can't make their own loins stand upright! You! You read about my "many kisses" and doubt I'm fully a man? I will sodomize you and face gently caress you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 14:25
|
|
|
Delthalaz posted:"Tartary, a vast country in the northern parts of Asia, bounded by Siberia on the north and west: this is called Great Tartary. The Tartars who lie south of Muscovy and Siberia, are those of Astracan, Circassia, and Dagistan, situated north-west of the Caspian-sea; the Calmuc Tartars, who lie between Siberia and the Caspian-sea; the Usbec Tartars and Moguls, who lie north of Persia and India; and lastly, those of Tibet, who lie north-west of China." - Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. III, Edinburgh, 1771, p. 887. lmao but you know I really like this kind of out there historical revisionism thata Russia is engaging, like the theory that the middle ages didn't exist.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 14:32
|
|
|
I found some more online discussion about the history of Tartary http://www.city-data.com/forum/history/1875382-great-tartary.html
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 14:37
|
|
|
Is Tartary the slav Wakanda?
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 14:44
|
|
|
Fuzzy McDoom posted:I used to keep a document where I listed all my favorite deaths of Roman emperors and I have no idea what happened to it but off the top of my head some good ones were: I really want to know more about the last 2.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 14:51
|
|
|
Peanut President posted:Clearly it's Atlantis, duh Don't trigger me
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 14:55
|
|
|
Peanut President posted:Pretty sure the story I read was they had a series of bad droughts that dispersed them away from the centralized system they were living in and back to smaller organization Im fairly sure they were gone before Euros landed so the disease explanation doesn't work . It's pretty weird and my understanding is no native tribe in America claims to be related to that culture , which is why it's easy to do digs on the mounds but confounding how they just vanished
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 15:16
|
|
|
cargo cult posted:I will sodomize you and face gently caress you-- the old no. 16
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 15:26
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Im fairly sure they were gone before Euros landed so the disease explanation doesn't work . It's pretty weird and my understanding is no native tribe in America claims to be related to that culture , which is why it's easy to do digs on the mounds but confounding how they just vanished Mound Builders abandoned their settlements in the 1600s which is after DeSoto's Expedition
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 15:36
|
|
|
You start getting into the upper Mississippi valley and yeah that's a little different but the guys on the lower Mississippi absolutely made contact from the south with Spaniards and French
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 15:37
|
|
|
twoday posted:I found some more online discussion about the history of Tartary I love insane nationalists like this and their Robert E. Howard rear end narratives. I used to post in another forum which had a Turk version of this. Not only was Turkish the language of Eden, not only did the Turks rule a globe-spanning empire in 10,000 BC, not only did they employ viking jannissaries to hold the Himalayas as a bulwark against the Chinese, who if I recall right are cannibals and not human, Indo-European languages were also invented by Christian clergy for some reason or other and most of history is a hoax. He would half-rear end a Turkish etymology for literally everything just like that guy in My Big Fat Greek Wedding. He was at least self-aware enough to joke about it and do stuff like apply his etmologies to LotR characters. But he clearly believed in all of it 100%. Sadlly although he was entertaining he was also a huge racist.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 15:41
|
|
|
an entire society that worshiped charles, round mound of rebound, barkely and knows the truth that he was from mississippi and no alabama like the cia wants you to believe
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 15:43
|
|
|
Grevling posted:I love insane nationalists like this Here’s one for you quote:The Finnish language, being the oldest tongue spoken by man, has not failed to acquire a development consistent to its great age. During the last twenty-five years attention has been paid to utilize the natural beauty of the language and as a consequence in the National Theatre in Helsingfors one may today listen to the most harmonious and sonorous speech of man.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 15:53
|
|
|
Peanut President posted:You start getting into the upper Mississippi valley and yeah that's a little different but the guys on the lower Mississippi absolutely made contact from the south with Spaniards and French Ah ok. I'm only tangentially familiar with the ones from cahokia to Minnesota
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 16:42
|
|
|
There are I think a few dozen Tartaria nuts and they appear to be based here: https://www.stolenhistory.org/ I read some account about the secret hyperwar against Tartary. For example San Francisco was one of the Tartarian cities that was destroyed by a nuclear bomb: https://www.stolenhistory.org/threads/who-nuked-san-francisco-in-1906.24/ They claim the Palace of Fine Arts in SF was once a Tartarian building and there are other relics hiding in plain sight. Fun earthquake machines and secret death rays too. So basically more evidence the internet provides too much raw information for the human mind
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 16:47
|
|
|
twoday posted:Here’s one for you It's weird that of all the Nordic nations, it's as far as I can tell only the Finns who do this. It may be as simple as their having a very unique language which gives them some wriggle room for crazy theory making. I've heard that someone's claimed that the Ancient Egyptians were Sami and used reindeer to build the pyramids but that was probably a joke. One theory which was advanced in earnest is that the events of the Iliad and Odyssey took place in the North Sea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Troy_Once_Stood https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-europe/was-devil-s-dyke-england-once-part-legendary-city-troy-008799 Grevling has issued a correction as of 17:56 on Aug 20, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 17:39
|
|
|
Peanut President posted:You start getting into the upper Mississippi valley and yeah that's a little different but the guys on the lower Mississippi absolutely made contact from the south with Spaniards and French Admittedly it's been a while since I did any real reading on the Mississippians, but I was under the impression that a lot of their cities were already in serious decline/collapse by that point, and de Soto et al made contact with what was effectively a remnant of a mostly dispersed civilization.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 17:44
|
|
|
Alright, I've decided to become a Tartary truth er. I'm going to learn all the lore and get into arguments about it with people I meet in the park
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 18:03
|
|
|
I love historical theories that arise because some moron finds a passage in an old document and it doesn't occur to them that the original author doesn't actually know what the gently caress they're talking about. This just in: Ethiopian communists are to blame for erasing all direct evidence that the Blemmyes did in fact have no heads.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 19:31
|
|
|
Fuzzy McDoom posted:I love historical theories that arise because some moron finds a passage in an old document and it doesn't occur to them that the original author doesn't actually know what the gently caress they're talking about. This just in: Ethiopian communists are to blame for erasing all direct evidence that the Blemmyes did in fact have no heads. Who are you going to believe— your lying eyes or a piece of paper hundreds of years old divorced 100% from any sort of relevant context?
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 19:54
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:What happened to the mississipian mound builders Moundbuilder culture declined as people moved on from Cahokia and Moundville, but a few vastly reduced villages continued until the Spanish. People also moved into new villages and they're still around. The Cherokee, Caddo, Creek and Choctaw peoples are all direct descendants, as are a lot of the smaller Indigenous nations along the river. Some people in the northeast corner of the culture probably also joined up with Eastern Woodlands confederacies and feudal kingdoms like the Haudenosaunee, Huron and Powhatan. If I recall no one claims them more due to arcane federal law around NAGPRA and the chaos of colonization making things more difficult than out west. The western states in general are fantastic about laws to protect ancestral remains. Another problem is how many mounds are on private land, and unless you pass laws protecting cultural patrimony items and human remains (Arizona, Colorado and New Mexico have great ones) then no federal law touches on that. KiteAuraan has issued a correction as of 20:01 on Aug 20, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 19:56
|
|
|
Fuzzy McDoom posted:I love historical theories that arise because some moron finds a passage in an old document and it doesn't occur to them that the original author doesn't actually know what the gently caress they're talking about. This just in: Ethiopian communists are to blame for erasing all direct evidence that the Blemmyes did in fact have no heads. i would live in herodotus world.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 19:58
|
|
|
Real hurthling! posted:i would live in herodotus world. I highly recommend the novel "Baudolino" by Umberto Eco. It's my favorite of his largely because it's not as arcane and philosophical as his other works, and centers around the story of a pseudo-pre-Marco Polo type who is entirely full of poo poo and tells about his travels to distant lands where all these myths are real, how he turned people with giant ears into medieval close air support, etc
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 20:06
|
|
|
Fuzzy McDoom posted:I highly recommend the novel "Baudolino" by Umberto Eco. It's my favorite of his largely because it's not as arcane and philosophical as his other works, and centers around the story of a pseudo-pre-Marco Polo type who is entirely full of poo poo and tells about his travels to distant lands where all these myths are real, how he turned people with giant ears into medieval close air support, etc It's my favorite novel of all time
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 20:19
|
|
|
Real hurthling! posted:i would live in herodotus world. If you are into fabricated stories about distant corners of the ancient world I highly, highly recommend reading The Travels of Sir John Mandeville. It's one of my favorite books. It was written shortly after the Travels of Marco Polo and is pretty much a description of a similar journey, except with a ton of made up stories included in it. It's filled with fabulous tales about magical trees and the people who have their faces in their chest, the dog heads, all kinds of weird and interesting stuff like: quote:There be also in that country a kind of snails that be so great, that many persons may lodge them in their shells, as men would do in a little house. And other snails there be that be full great but not so huge as the other. And of these snails, and of great white worms that have black heads that be as great as a man’s thigh, and some less as great worms that men find there in woods, men make viand royal for the king and for other great lords. And as you read it he starts in Jerusalem and goes further east, and the tales become stranger and stranger, accumulating all kinds of myths and legends along the way. quote:ABOUT THE TRAVELS OF SIR JOHN MANDEVILLE Here is a link to the project Gutenberg version: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/782 There is a penguin version that I once had, that was written in more modern English and was much more readable. twoday has issued a correction as of 20:29 on Aug 20, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 20:27
|
|
|
Thread needs more David Reich race science and mtdna charts. The best are maps of Europe with big migration arrows and lots of circles and around haplogroup regions. Now we can finally uncover our True Genetic Tribes
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 21:58
|
|
|
twoday posted:Graham Hancock is an excellent grifter, because he actually has some good ideas. The thought that there may have been a human civilization before the last Ice Age doesn't seem insane to me, why not? A lot of archaeological evidence is under water, he's right. Let's discuss it, I'm willing to at least hear the arguments. Thank you for this. I appreciate I left a loaded question that didn't deserve a response this in-depth. I haven't read any of his later stuff that involves telepathy stone-moving. I read a few of his earlier books and, being generally ignorant of ancient history, found his ideas compelling. I'm still not sure if this is because he's an archaeological outsider who challenges the status quo, or because he is a very gifted storyteller who can weave a bunch of disparate facts into a compelling narrative. I'll try not to poo poo up the thread by mentioning him again.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 22:24
|
|
|
How can one praise Catullus but scorn DSA chairman Nick Mullen?
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 22:55
|
|
|
catullus is a very interesting poetic persona imo. its hard to know if he was sincerely saying sone of the things he said as himself or in character in what hes writing cause its some of the most naive, bratty stuff youre ever going to come across but as you keep reading the sophistication builds and culminates from short tedious begging for kisses to soaring epic odes about mythilogical lovers. big props tho for having your first girlfriend (aka lesbia) be the wife of the provincial governor. big dick energy there. after rejection and roiling through the stages of grief he starts dating men, whom he finds equally unwilling to commit to him. its all very embarrassing and leads to intense meltdowns like the quoted infamous carmen #16 stepping back from the carmina its possible to see catullus as the vanguard of an era of loosening sexual mores ("let us live and love while young and ignore the opinions of the older generation" to paraphrase) during the late republic. of course the pendulum swings both ways and augustus' appeal to romes glorious past required a reactionary attitude towards women and sexuality in general but catullus' short life was long over by then.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 23:16
|
|
|
Catullus was definitely one of the first Wife Guys.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 23:20
|
|
|
BMX Ninja posted:being generally ignorant of ancient history, found his ideas compelling. That's the crux of his grift. He has some interesting ideas, and presents them in a way that will seem interesting to anyone, regardless of how much they know. Then he devotes a lot of time to railing against established academia, to the point that that some of his readers stop trusting all other sources. In summary, what he's saying is, "look at this, pretty neat, huh? well, actually this is the truth and everyone else is stupid and/or lying." And that's not how knowledge develops. I think it's fine to question things and come up with new ideas. Just yesterday in this thread I was trying to argue that there was a possible trade route of chili peppers between Central America and Scandinavia before Columbus. Why not think up such elaborate theories? Sometimes that's the only way to get to the truth, because the truth is often unbelievable, so it's worth doing it, just as a thought exercise. But as I was doing this, KiteAuraan presented me with some interesting points about ancient trade networks that made my hypothesis seem unlikely, and that shut me up pretty quickly, because I realized he had a valid argument worth considering. The way people like Graham Hancock work is just the opposite. They question things too, but they also come up with an all-encompassing theory that explains why they are right and everyone else is wrong. If you end up trapped in that sort of logical fallacy, you can never learn from others, you can never contribute to a collective understanding. Here's an example that is often brought up by the Graham Hancock/Ancient Aliens crew, the Piri Reis map:  This is an Ottoman map compiled in 1513, based upon other maps and written accounts of voyages undertaken by explorers from Spain and Portugal. Unlike every other map of South America made in that era, it shows that land extends eastwards from the bottom tip of South America. Now, some people use this map to argue that it's proof that Antarctica was a populated and habitable place just 500 years ago. and go on from there to argue all kinds of insane theories about why that is the case, and come up with explanations such as, the world has spun around in the meantime, and Antarctica used to be closer to the equator. The general consensus is that the "antarctica" part actually closely matches with the remaining coast of South America, and the map maker just decided to wrap it around the bottom of the vellum for whatever practical reason. And I say, ok, it's fine to make up theories to explain things, as long as you consider all the evidence. But they do not. They have tons of other maps from the same time that portray South America normally, but they discard all of that data when making their considerations, because it doesn't fit with the conclusion they already arrived upon. That's bad! Graham Hancock operates in a similar way (albeit with slightly more sophisticated arguments), as do many other pseudo-scholars that you see a lot on TV and online these days. The prevalence of these peudo-historical theories in mainstream culture, and the amount of attention paid to them, has led to a countless number of communities appearing which believe this poo poo and ignore everything else. These people end up in a bubble and re-enforce each other's beliefs until they end up totally detached from reality. This is why we have people today who legitimately believe that the earth is flat, or that every monumental structure outside of Europe was built by Aliens. quote:I'm still not sure if this is because he's an archaeological outsider who challenges the status quo This has a lot of appeal, for sure. We all want to be punk rock, deep in our hearts. I support it when people question the status quo, in terms of history. I think that a lot of things were overlooked, that the picture is incomplete, that some ideas were based upon ephemeral evidence and ended up becoming entrenched in scholarship, that certain historical narratives became overly dominant, and that we need to rethink some things. And I think that idea is common, that a lot of things about our understanding of history don't make sense, or are incomplete. Doubting and rethinking the status quo is really what all historians should be doing all the time. But you need to have some sort of system for deciding what is likely or not. You need to be able to discard ideas, but you also need to be careful about the way in which you accumulate new ones, and you need to develop tools for processing that info. So like I said before, I'm open to the idea Graham Hancock is obsessed with, that there was a civilization during the Ice Age or beforehand. Why not? The other thing is I realize that there is no definitive evidence of this. We haven't even solved the Bronze Age Collapse of civilization which happened 3,000 years ago, and in my eyes we are nowhere near close to being capable of having ideas about the collapse of civilization 11,000 years ago. If Hancock's theory was correct, and there was a civilization before the glaciers melted and the sea level rose, most of the evidence would be destroyed or underwater by now, and I don't think we have enough data to either confirm this or rule it out. Most of the data we do have seems to suggest that this was not the case, so I think it's an interesting idea, but I have plenty of doubts. But Hancock has no doubts. He is convinced that he is the only person alive who knows the truth of what human society was like 11,000 years ago, and he is happy to tell you all about it, and that is why you shouldn't trust him. twoday has issued a correction as of 23:43 on Aug 20, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 23:24
|
|
|
The empires of Lemuria and Mu predated Atlantis ffs does nobody here read?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2019 00:59
|
|
|
justified and ancient, ancient and justified
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2019 01:00
|
|
|
I guess Doggerland is pre-history, but it's interesting to me how much of the development of humanity in Northern Europe probably occurred in this area that has now been flooded by the sea. Apparently surveys by oil companies and chance finds during dredging are some of the biggest sources of finds for archaeologists working on the topic.  Another topic that sticks in my mind is learning how the Norse were on Greenland before the ancestors of the Inuit arrived. That led me down a number of Wikipedia pages saying that the dominance of Inuit and related languages in the North American arctic is a relatively recent phenomenon, becoming established since like 900 AD. That was interesting enough, but apparently that whole language family also extends to Far Eastern Russia, implying that people were crossing the Bering Strait far after the land bridge was submerged. This made me feel like twoday in that there is this seemingly obvious evidence of contact between North America and Asia that no one talks about. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2019 01:10
|
|
|
I make very few claims about Atlantis, but someone told me that Doggerland was the real Atlantis and I find that to be a beautiful idea.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2019 01:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 06:33 |
|
|
Atrocious Joe posted:I guess Doggerland is pre-history, but it's interesting to me how much of the development of humanity in Northern Europe probably occurred in this area that has now been flooded by the sea. Apparently surveys by oil companies and chance finds during dredging are some of the biggest sources of finds for archaeologists working on the topic. looking at this image the notion that there were societies that could reasonably be called "civilizations" a few dozen thousand years ago doesn't seem so implausible. Oceans are where you're most likely to get sedantary peoples before the domestication of crop plants and so much of the former shoreline is completely underwater now. Atrocious Joe posted:Another topic that sticks in my mind is learning how the Norse were on Greenland before the ancestors of the Inuit arrived. That led me down a number of Wikipedia pages saying that the dominance of Inuit and related languages in the North American arctic is a relatively recent phenomenon, becoming established since like 900 AD. That was interesting enough, but apparently that whole language family also extends to Far Eastern Russia, implying that people were crossing the Bering Strait far after the land bridge was submerged. This made me feel like twoday in that there is this seemingly obvious evidence of contact between North America and Asia that no one talks about. Does anybody here know how dates like that are arrived at? My understanding is that modern linguists consider most attempts to use linguistic drift as a clock are fairly bunk, because languages change at wildly varying paces. I thought almost all attempts to date pre-historic language branches has giant error bars because they tended to be based on things like "if two languages in the same family have the same word for something that was invented in 1000 BC, they probably split after 1000 BC". I guess maybe Inuit inventions around 900 AD could be used for that. My understanding on this topic is almost entirely derived from pop sources so I could be way off. That said, I think it's also believed that languages that split more than 5000 or so years ago tend to have drifted so much that you can't even recognize them as being in the same family. If Inuit and Siberian languages are recognizably similar that puts an upper limit of their splitting that's far lower than the 11000 years ago that Beringia went under water.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2019 01:26
|
|
