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Fojar38 posted:Remember when Rhea selfishly tried to hide the remains of her genocided people in a tomb instead of distributing them to the Empire so that they can create mutants to fight in their army Yeah she was fine with a nobility and an army that did the murdering for her
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Aug 20, 2019 20:53
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Fojar38 posted:Remember when Rhea selfishly tried to hide the remains of her genocided people in a tomb instead of distributing them to the Empire so that they can create mutants to fight in their army Iunno She mostly seems to pass them out like candy to give super powers to her sycophants to enforce her religion (worshipping her mother) when she isn't performing human experiments and sacrifices to resurrect her dead mother. Like she also just gives her mom's spine to Byleth to sword people with when she thinks they'll sword the people she tells them to
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Aug 20, 2019 20:54
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Fojar38 posted:Remember when Rhea selfishly tried to hide the remains of her genocided people in a tomb instead of distributing them to the Empire so that they can create mutants to fight in their army Remember when Rhea wiped out an advanced human civilization because they wouldn't worship her most holy mother. It's almost like the Agarathans and Rhea are the same, she just doesn't look gross in her human form.
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Aug 20, 2019 20:54
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Eimi posted:Remember when Rhea wiped out an advanced human civilization because they wouldn't worship her most holy mother. It's almost like the Agarathans and Rhea are the same, she just doesn't look gross in her human form. This is literally the opposite of what happened and this isn't the first time you've had to be called out on it. Nemesis and the Agarthans were the aggressors in every single account.
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Aug 20, 2019 20:56
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Fojar38 posted:This is literally the opposite of what happened and this isn't the first time you've had to be called out on it. Nemesis and the Agarthans were the aggressors in every single account. Except that's not the case, what is stated is that they broke free from the influence of the goddess and "challenged" her. And given who is loving giving you the history, yeah no poo poo she views that as striking first.
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Aug 20, 2019 20:58
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Akarshi posted:Just because the bandit is told that's his objective doesn't mean that that is the Flame Emperor's objective. The bandit thinks he has to kill all three house leaders, but he can't actually complete his objective without killing Edelgard, thus killing his employer. My theory is that Jeritza was supposed to ride in and save the day, if it wasn't for Claude bolting and having everyone follow him into Byleth and friends. But it's just a theory anyways. Jeritza is already a professor at the academy within the story, I'm not sure why they'd need to go through an elaborate plan just to make him a house leader, especially when there'd be a chance for manuela and hannerman to be appointed the black eagle leader.
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Aug 20, 2019 21:00
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I don't even give a poo poo who started that loving ancient war. Like all of the awful things Rhea did happened between it ending and before the game starting
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Aug 20, 2019 21:00
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Zore posted:Iunno Personally I think that she is free to decide what to do with those remains and nobody else has the right to decide. Much less Edelgard and her band of graverobbers. Eimi posted:Except that's not the case, what is stated is that they broke free from the influence of the goddess and "challenged" her. And given who is loving giving you the history, yeah no poo poo she views that as striking first. I can't find any corroborating source on this. Who makes this claim, the Agarthans?
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Aug 20, 2019 21:01
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My extremely scientific poll indicates that people's perception of Edelgard is extremely well correlated with whether they did her route first or not
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Aug 20, 2019 21:03
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Zore posted:There's no indication Lonato is iirc. Lonato has the letter which talks about plan to assassinate Rhea which turns out to be a red herring by the slitherers to keep the church knights busy since their aim is to open the tomb of Seiros.
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Aug 20, 2019 21:04
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Andrast posted:I don't even give a poo poo who started that loving ancient war. Like all of the awful things Rhea did happened after that and before the game starting This is the thing though. You keep saying "But it's fine because Rhea did awful things" but you treat that statement as though it's self evident when the things that you are talking about, executing rebels and the experimentations on Byleth's mother, are both shown to have considerable mitigating factors when understood in context, like "The rebels were Slitherers" and "Byleth's mother consented." Everything else you either fail to establish any concrete occurrences and if you do, you fail to establish a causal connection between the event and Rhea. At a certain point it starts to feel like we're discussing fanfiction rather than actual things that happened in the video game that we all played.
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Aug 20, 2019 21:04
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cheetah7071 posted:My extremely scientific poll indicates that people's perception of Edelgard is extremely well correlated with whether they did her route first or not That "things did wrong" wasn't a very good way to put it imo. I think she did wrongs but was still in the right.
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Aug 20, 2019 21:05
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The CIA is the true 4th house
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Aug 20, 2019 21:05
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cheetah7071 posted:My extremely scientific poll indicates that people's perception of Edelgard is extremely well correlated with whether they did her route first or not Makes a lot of sense. And, honestly, if you totally forget about the first half of the game, Edel really doesn't do much wrong if you take her route. But, again, that's totally dependent on conveniently forgetting the first half of the game in which case she unquestionably does a couple of oopsies
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Aug 20, 2019 21:05
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does merging with Sothis technically make you the Goddess and if so does that mean Mercedes is technically worshiping you e: asking for a friend
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Aug 20, 2019 21:06
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not a bot posted:Lonato has the letter which talks about plan to assassinate Rhea which turns out to be a red herring by the slitherers to keep the church knights busy since their aim is to open the tomb of Seiros. Right but he has a whole bunch of good personal reasons to oppose the church (since they, you know, made up bullshit about his son and executed him) and the letter was legitimately from the Western Church who the Slitherers use as a patsy. So he isn't slitherer affiliated and no one knows that the slitherers are involved until months later. Rhea certainly doesn't when you're sent out to kill him and she knows he has an absolutely valid reason to hate her since she lied about why she murdered his son. Zore fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Aug 20, 2019 |
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Aug 20, 2019 21:06
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Fojar38 posted:This is the thing though. You keep saying "But it's fine because Rhea did awful things" but you treat that statement as though it's self evident when the things that you are talking about, executing rebels and the experimentations on Byleth's mother, are both shown to have considerable mitigating factors when understood in context, like "The rebels were Slitherers" and "Byleth's mother consented." Everything else you either fail to establish any concrete occurrences and if you do, you fail to establish a causal connection between the event and Rhea. At a certain point it starts to feel like we're discussing fanfiction rather than actual things that happened in the video game that we all played. I didn't say anything about Byleth's mother. Also nobody knows that the rebels where slitherers at that point (and I don't think it's ever confirmed they were either). Rhea set up the crest system and andis loving pope of that awful church.
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Aug 20, 2019 21:07
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Andrast posted:I didn't say anything about Byleth's mother. Also nobody knows that the rebels where slitherers at that point (and I don't think it's ever confirmed they were either). Rhea set up the crest system and and the whole church and those are awful. It's the Agarthans who set up the whole crest system though, by killing Rhea's people and using their blood and bodies to get superpowers. The lie in the origin of the crests is the idea that they were willingly given when in fact they were stolen. In fact the only ones we see with an interest in giving people crests to serve their goals are the Agarthans themselves. Rhea only does it once because she thinks it might bring Sothis back
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Aug 20, 2019 21:08
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Andrast posted:That "things did wrong" wasn't a very good way to put it imo. I think she did wrongs but was still in the right. I was riffing on "edelgard did nothing wrong" so yeah probably could have worded it better. But I doubt the correlation would have changed all that much
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Aug 20, 2019 21:09
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What the gently caress did people expect the church to do about a rebellion? Like, just let them take over the town or whatever?
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Aug 20, 2019 21:10
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:What the gently caress did people expect the church to do about a rebellion? Like, just let them take over the town or whatever? The use of coercive force is only justified when
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Aug 20, 2019 21:11
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Fojar38 posted:It's the Agarthans who set up the whole crest system though, by killing Rhea's people and using their blood and bodies to get superpowers. The lie in the origin of the crests is the idea that they were willingly given when in fact they were stolen. In fact the only ones we see with an interest in giving people crests for its own sake are the Agarthans themselves. Rhea only does it once because she thinks it might bring Sothis back She does it more than once because Flayn, Seteth and others got their bloodlines put into the pool and we know Flayn at least didn't have any children. And its very unlikely Seteth had other kids considering how he treats Flayn
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Aug 20, 2019 21:11
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:What the gently caress did people expect the church to do about a rebellion? Like, just let them take over the town or whatever? Well yeah if you create a tyrannical church you can expect it to be tyrannical
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Aug 20, 2019 21:11
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cheetah7071 posted:My extremely scientific poll indicates that people's perception of Edelgard is extremely well correlated with whether they did her route first or not Andrast posted:That "things did wrong" wasn't a very good way to put it imo. I think she did wrongs but was still in the right. I mean there does seem to be this population of Edelgard did nothing wrong folks who take it a step further and go actually she is the only moral one and the rest are all bad because
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Aug 20, 2019 21:12
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Andrast posted:Well yeah if you create a tyrannical church you can expect it to be tyrannical Are you telling me that if a rebellion popped up in the Empire Edelgard wouldn't have sent a group, perhaps a Strike Force, to go kill them all?
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Aug 20, 2019 21:12
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Zore posted:Right but he has a whole bunch of personal reasons to oppose the church and the letter was legitimately from the Western Church who the Slitherers use as a patsy. Yeah I didn't mean it as a reason for Rhea to kill him, just that he was involved with the slitherers through Western Church. The reason why Rhea sends you to kill him isn't because he's a heretic but because he's staged a rebellion which is fair play.
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Aug 20, 2019 21:12
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Zore posted:
Seteth and Flayn are original Saints and both of them survived the massacre at Zanado.
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Aug 20, 2019 21:12
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:What the gently caress did people expect the church to do about a rebellion? Like, just let them take over the town or whatever? I mean when they're rebelling for a pretty goddamn good reason it might be time to uh have the church look inward at why they're doing so.
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Aug 20, 2019 21:13
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Fojar38 posted:It's the Agarthans who set up the whole crest system though, by killing Rhea's people and using their blood and bodies to get superpowers. The lie in the origin of the crests is the idea that they were willingly given when in fact they were stolen. Who created the crests doesn't matter at all. What matters is how things work after the won the war and Rhea created the whole idea of nobility that rules with divine right (the crests).
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Aug 20, 2019 21:14
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Fojar38 posted:Seteth and Flayn are original Saints and both of them survived the massacre at Zanado. Right and there are crests with their powers that were granted to some of the original noble houses. Which could only have been done by Rhea at some point post war by doing the same kinds of human/dragon experiments the Agarthans did
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Aug 20, 2019 21:14
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Andrast posted:Who created the crests doesn't matter at all. What matters is how things work after the won the war and Rhea created the whole idea of nobility that rules with divine right (shown by the crests). I'm pretty sure that social stratification is a thing that happens independently of one individual. Like, the existence of the Pope is a byproduct of the social order, not the cause of it.
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Aug 20, 2019 21:15
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Fojar38 posted:I'm pretty sure that social stratification is a thing that happens independently of one individual. Like, the existence of the Pope is a byproduct of the social order, not the cause of it. Not in Fodlan. Nobility didn't exist until Rhea created it. Claude and Edelgard both tell you about it on their respective routes. There were other systems in place but the idea of a divine bloodline that had the right to rule in perpetuity was something she came up with and instituted and isn't the norm in other areas of the world explicitly
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Aug 20, 2019 21:16
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Fojar38 posted:I'm pretty sure that social stratification is a thing that happens independently of one individual. Like, the existence of the Pope is a byproduct of the social order, not the cause of it. maybe in the real world Rhea literally created the church and has been its pope loving forever
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Aug 20, 2019 21:16
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Zore posted:
During the war against Nemesis, Rhea managed to convince one of Nemesis followers to join her side and that was the original Adrestian Emperor. She granted him and a number of his followers who would eventually become the Empire's noble houses the crests of the Saints in order to help them combat Nemesis. After the war the Emperor and his followers ended up making up the noble houses, but this is not because Rhea wanted them to make noble houses using the crests, it's a byproduct of the fact that they were given crests to fight Nemesis. Naturally since they had literal superpowers now the post-war society was organized around Crests, but that was not because Rhea wanted it that way. She just wanted Nemesis and the Agarthans to gently caress off
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Aug 20, 2019 21:17
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Andrast posted:maybe in the real world How did no one else notice that either
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Aug 20, 2019 21:18
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Zore posted:I mean when they're rebelling for a pretty goddamn good reason it might be time to uh have the church look inward at why they're doing so. Though Lonato has good personal reasons, isn't the whole deal of the Western Church just that they want to be in charge?
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Aug 20, 2019 21:18
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Zore posted:
the concept of royal bloodlines exists in both brigid and almyra
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Aug 20, 2019 21:18
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not a bot posted:Though Lonato has good personal reasons, isn't the whole deal of the Western Church just that they want to be in charge? Well specifically that no one from the West ever got to be fantasy pope because Rhea would just like stage her death and a new election every few decades I guess? idk how the hell that worked
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Aug 20, 2019 21:21
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Rhea and Edelgard are both insane authoritarians but at least Edelgard has a good reason to do what she does since Rhea actually is a millennia old dragon pulling the Strings. Rhea on the other hand is basically doing this for shits and giggles at this point (actually to bring her mom back but that is insane as well). Both can be reasonable if you follow their path because of the magic of video game protagonists though. At least Edelgard's war results in a better world everybody in the end since Rhea is taken out of the picture (as is Edelgard in the routes where she goes properly crazy).
Andrast fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Aug 20, 2019 |
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Aug 20, 2019 21:22
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RBA Starblade posted:How did no one else notice that either
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Aug 20, 2019 21:22
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