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Modest Mao posted:
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Aug 21, 2019 10:35
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Modest Mao posted:
better than a lot of webcomics
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Aug 21, 2019 11:43
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twoday posted:Yes, which is highly problematic once you realize that almost every single theory about the arrival of human beings in North America is based upon the presumption that they were incapable of seafaring and must have come by land. And that this presumption in turn fundamentally determines the historical narrative of an entire continent. Just to name one one example. That's changing thanks to new finds in recent years.
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Aug 21, 2019 12:13
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Don't doxx me please
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Aug 21, 2019 12:49
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Fuzzy McDoom posted:Not only was Nikephoros killed, but his son and heir Staurakios barely escaped with his life, suffering severe cranial and spinal injuries. He had to be carried back to Constantinople in a litter and for the next several months the empire was ruled by a brain-damaged cripple while Krum gilded his father's skull. Lines Inscribed Upon a Cup Formed from a Skull Start not—nor deem my spirit fled: In me behold the only skull From which, unlike a living head, Whatever flows is never dull. I lived, I loved, I quaff'd, like thee: I died: let earth my bones resign; Fill up—thou canst not injure me; The worm hath fouler lips than thine. Better to hold the sparkling grape, Than nurse the earth-worm's slimy brood; And circle in the goblet's shape The drink of Gods, than reptiles' food. Where once my wit, perchance, hath shone, In aid of others' let me shine; And when, alas! our brains are gone, What nobler substitute than wine? Quaff while thou canst—another race, When thou and thine like me are sped, May rescue thee from earth's embrace, And rhyme and revel with the dead. Why not? since through life's little day Our heads such sad effects produce; Redeem'd from worms and wasting clay, This chance is theirs, to be of use.
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Aug 21, 2019 13:14
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Thanks for that effort post about Aboriginal settlement in Australia. That reminds me a lot of the early research into the Mound Builders me and a couple other guys were talking about a few pages ago. European colonists couldn't believe that Native Americans built them so it must've been one of the lost tribes of israel or the vikings or something, clearly! Also the conspiracy theories around Great Zimbabwe. I love reading that poo poo from dumbass people.
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Aug 21, 2019 13:50
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Fuzzy McDoom posted:Justinian II was overthrown and replaced with a guy named Leontios and had his nose mutilated before he was sent into exile. He spent a couple years with the Khazar khan then talked his way into leading a Bulgar army against Constantinople. He took the city by leading a strike force through the sewers. After seizing control of the city he imprisoned Leontios and Tiberios Apsimar, the possibly half-barbarian admiral who had overthrown Leontios in turn. Justinian appeared before the hippodrome mob one day wearing a golden nose and stood on Leontios' and Tiberios' necks before ordering them beheaded. Somehow, his second reign did not provoke an uptick in his popularity, perhaps because he did dumb poo poo like promptly try to double-cross the Bulgars. After a few years he was deposed again, this time in favor of an Armenian general named Vardan. Some enterprising officers gave the new emperor Justinian's head as a gift. Yeah, before his reign, emperors would slit their rivals' noses instead of killing them. Since killing christians was wrong, and a mutilated dude just couldn't be emperor, right? Yeah, after Justinian II they switched to blinding usurpers instead. Fuzzy McDoom posted:Not only was Nikephoros killed, but his son and heir Staurakios barely escaped with his life, suffering severe cranial and spinal injuries. He had to be carried back to Constantinople in a litter and for the next several months the empire was ruled by a brain-damaged cripple while Krum gilded his father's skull. lmao owned I wonder if Krum sent Staurakios any taunting letters
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Aug 21, 2019 15:21
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Dalael posted:That's changing thanks to new finds in recent years. Yeah you have archaeological sites on Chile and Brazil that are actually quite a few thousand years older than the timeline they set for the crossing of the Bering Strait
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Aug 21, 2019 16:24
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Anyway it seems that the first people living in South America came by sea from Australia https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dna-search-first-americans-links-amazon-indigenous-australians-180955976/ Which seems like something people should be talking about
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Aug 21, 2019 16:29
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Speaking of unwilling emperors, during the Nike riots the mob crowned an elderly senator as emperor. He didn't want it, everyone agreed he didn't want it, so Justinian was just going to let him go. Until Theodora said "only one man alive can wear the purple." And everyone was like, well poo poo, I guess we gotta kill him. And so they did.
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Aug 21, 2019 16:35
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are there any good books (not involving aliens) talking about alternate theories of ancient society's. Iv'e always tried to tell people when i talk about history that people 1000 years ago were just as capable as us and sometimes they just cant imagine a dude building the pyramids had the same brain as us and it works the same.
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Aug 21, 2019 16:39
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Suplex Liberace posted:are there any good books (not involving aliens) talking about alternate theories of ancient society's. Iv'e always tried to tell people when i talk about history that people 1000 years ago were just as capable as us and sometimes they just cant imagine a dude building the pyramids had the same brain as us and it works the same. When it comes to the pyramids, I 100% believe that jean-Pierre Houdin has figured it out with his internal ramp theory and it annoys me to no end that people disregard it for no obvious reasons. Especially since years before he came up with it, a mapping of the pyramid using (Muons I think?) showed exactly that. Or what seems to be that anyways. The theory is so simple and evident, it's embarassing that people ever believed the external ramp theory or even claimed "we don't know"
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Aug 21, 2019 16:46
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Aug 21, 2019 17:02
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This! Look how ridiculous it would be. The ramp would require more building material than the pyramids did. I guess I shouldn't complain too much.. Some people think these blocks were lifted all the way to the top using water and probably a good deal of magic. http://sentinelkennels.com/Research_Article_V41.html 
Dalael has issued a correction as of 17:15 on Aug 21, 2019 |
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Aug 21, 2019 17:12
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for more crazy architecture theories, the Seven Deadly Wonders books by Reilly are good fun
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Aug 21, 2019 17:37
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http://structuralarchaeology.blogspot.com/2012/03/twelve-reasons-why-stonehenge-was.html?m=1 Here's an article looking at the architectural arguments for Stonehenge being the remains of a wooden building
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Aug 21, 2019 17:40
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twoday posted:http://structuralarchaeology.blogspot.com/2012/03/twelve-reasons-why-stonehenge-was.html?m=1 Uhh excuse me I'm reliably informed by Professor N. Tufnel that nobody knows who the Druids were or what they were doing.
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Aug 21, 2019 17:44
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Dalael posted:This! Look how ridiculous it would be. The ramp would require more building material than the pyramids did. I guess I shouldn't complain too much.. Some people think these blocks were lifted all the way to the top using water and probably a good deal of magic. wouldn't the grain get wet?
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Aug 21, 2019 17:55
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twoday posted:Anyway it seems that the first people living in South America came by sea from Australia The researchers' findings suggested that the split between South American and Australian happened before the split between Australian and New Guinean. In other words, it's pretty plausible that there was a population living in Asia that split--one group north and one group south. The northern ones followed Beringia whether by land or following the coast by sea). There's no need for the transpacific sea voyage you posit. Even if you're right that boats existed much earlier than previously thought, boats that can make a transpacific journey are much more advanced. We also have pretty good dates of colonization of Pacific islands, and none of the islands far enough away to suggest advanced boating technology were inhabited more than two or three thousand years ago. The article you linked seems kinda badly written because it doesn't mention the growing consensus that the Americas were first inhabited much earlier than the traditional date of 11000 years ago. The first inhabitants seem to have been less densely populated and use fewer tools that leave archaeological records, but enough has been found that it's almost undeniable they existed. This is yet another piece of evidence for that, and provides a suggestion of who these first inhabitants were, which is super cool.
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Aug 21, 2019 18:11
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Suplex Liberace posted:are there any good books (not involving aliens) talking about alternate theories of ancient society's. Iv'e always tried to tell people when i talk about history that people 1000 years ago were just as capable as us and sometimes they just cant imagine a dude building the pyramids had the same brain as us and it works the same. You don't need any alternate histories for that just regular histories
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Aug 21, 2019 18:14
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Uhh excuse me I'm reliably informed by Professor N. Tufnel that nobody knows who the Druids were or what they were doing. Well first of all the thing to know about the druids is that when you find post holes in the ground, you shouldn't assume that it's a building. In just about every other archeological context you would, of course, but you see they liked to build things that are called woodhenge, and are definitely not supports for a roof  This would allow them to do their rituals outdoors so that they could enjoy the pleasant weather of England
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Aug 21, 2019 18:16
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what a mysterious and stupid people
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Aug 21, 2019 18:17
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the modern day english i mean
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Aug 21, 2019 18:18
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cheetah7071 posted:You don't need any alternate histories for that just regular histories Lol where's the fun some old white guy making assumptions.
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Aug 21, 2019 18:19
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til stonehenge was a building with a roof, neat
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Aug 21, 2019 18:22
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cheetah7071 posted:boats that can make a transpacific journey are much more advanced. I'm sorry but I'm going to address this right here. It was proven in the end of the 40's that reed/papyrus boats such as those that existed all the way back in Pharaoh's times, could be used to traverse the oceans. DO NOT GET ME WRONG. I am not saying they did. Only that it was possible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_Heyerdahl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_expedition He repeated that feat multiple times, crossing the Atlantic as well using the RA and RA II. https://www.kon-tiki.no/expeditions/ra-expeditions/ quote:In 1947, Heyerdahl and five fellow adventurers sailed from Peru to the Tuamotu Islands, French Polynesia in a pae-pae raft that they had constructed from balsa wood and other native materials, christened the Kon-Tiki. The Kon-Tiki expedition was inspired by old reports and drawings made by the Spanish Conquistadors of Inca rafts, and by native legends and archaeological evidence suggesting contact between South America and Polynesia. The Kon-Tiki smashed into the reef at Raroia in the Tuamotus on August 7, 1947, after a 101-day, 4,300-nautical-mile (5,000-mile or 8,000 km)[11] journey across the Pacific Ocean. Heyerdahl had nearly drowned at least twice in childhood and did not take easily to water; he said later that there were times in each of his raft voyages when he feared for his life.[12]
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Aug 21, 2019 18:25
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Al! posted:what a mysterious and stupid people caesars gallic war book 6 is given over to an ethnography of the gauls and the druid class. its good stuff on human sacrifice, their politics, etc. he tells us that, like socrates, the druids felt writing things down would weaken the mind of students so to become a druid one had to memorize their entire corpus of ritual poetry by heart, much of it dealing with precise descriptions of celestial motions. this education took 20 years.
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Aug 21, 2019 18:26
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Dalael posted:I'm sorry but I'm going to address this right here. It was proven in the end of the 40's that reed/papyrus boats such as those that existed all the way back in Pharaoh's times, could be used to traverse the oceans. DO NOT GET ME WRONG. I am not saying they did. Only that it was possible. Fair enough, I had always thought kon-tiki used more advanced techniques. Consider me educated.
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Aug 21, 2019 18:36
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In the Mediterranean there are many stones, and as a result there were many monumental buildings made of stone, stone ornaments left behind and such. And because of the nature of stone, it's easier to cut blocks and stack them into rectangular buildings, which is the predominant form. However, in Northern Europe wood was the common building material, and one of the simplest shapes to build from wood is more of a teepee structure. This evolved into the round form seen in many Celtic houses: And one of the proposed models for Stonehenge being a building strongly resembles this:  It's a bit alien-looking if you are only familiar with square buildings, but if you were a Celt this might seem like the logical way to make a giant building. Especially if you take into account that one of the main reasons stonehenge was built has to do with rituals on the winter Solstice (december 22nd), a time when the weather in England is typically wet, cold, and unpleasant. But instead the current default assumption is they dragged a bunch of rocks into a circle and stopped there (because ancient people were morons)  Great theory, good job twoday has issued a correction as of 18:43 on Aug 21, 2019 |
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Aug 21, 2019 18:40
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twoday posted:Well first of all the thing to know about the druids is that when you find post holes in the ground, you shouldn't assume that it's a building. In just about every other archeological context you would, of course, but you see they liked to build things that are called woodhenge, and are definitely not supports for a roof You cultureless swine!
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Aug 21, 2019 18:41
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cheetah7071 posted:Fair enough, I had always thought kon-tiki used more advanced techniques. Consider me educated. Well, it did have a few modern tech such as a radio in case something bad happen (which it did, they all nearly drowned) but generally speaking, they really built an old boat. Consider this, Thor almost drowned twice in his youth and was afraid of water when he climbed aboard that raft and traveled 5 000 miles on the biggest ocean on this planet. Surprised the boat didn't sink from the weight of his massive balls.
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Aug 21, 2019 18:47
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I just have a general hunch we underestimate how mobile people were in the past. I’m not talking post agriculture because yeah people mostly stuck in place then, but when groups were on the move I don’t see any reason they couldn’t have gotten extremely far quite quickly. For example with modern infrastructure it looks like you could supposedly walk from Juneau, Alaska to San Diego in around 55 or 60 days, walking. Let’s say it took 50 times as long back then because no infrastructure, you aren’t particularly rushing anywhere, just hunting and ambling with your pals in a general southerly direction. That’s still less than 8 years! If you’re skimming along the coast and trying to get out ahead of other groups you could easily do it more quickly.
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Aug 21, 2019 18:47
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Modest Mao posted:The common saying is that humans are naturally selfish or self interested animals but it's obvious in most of human history our specialty was in being a cooperative species, so much so that we invented language to share our inner thoughts directly with each other. I think there's not too many species who build large social structures together without being a genetic colony of siblings no? There are complex social structures that include non siblings, even members of other species, weevils farm fungus, as do termites, and ants even farm other insects for honeydew humans are probably eusocial too but even implying that human sociality has played into our evolution triggers a lot of dawkinites.
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Aug 21, 2019 18:49
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Delthalaz posted:If you’re skimming along the coast and trying to get out ahead of other groups you could easily do it more quickly. Or chasing migratory animals, which cover tremendous distances in one season
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Aug 21, 2019 18:54
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Dalael posted:Well, it did have a few modern tech such as a radio in case something bad happen (which it did, they all nearly drowned) but generally speaking, they really built an old boat. Consider this, Thor almost drowned twice in his youth and was afraid of water when he climbed aboard that raft and traveled 5 000 miles on the biggest ocean on this planet. Surprised the boat didn't sink from the weight of his massive balls. I was more thinking things like, presumably rope and cloth technology advanced a lot between prehistory and the rafts he was emulating (which were from Incan records and thus less than a thousand years old). If nothing else I assume domesticated cotton/hemp makes a better material than the wild equivalents. If I'm wrong then I learned something new today.
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Aug 21, 2019 18:55
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JuulPodSaveAmerica posted:There are complex social structures that include non siblings, even members of other species, weevils farm fungus, as do termites, and ants even farm other insects for honeydew Aren't ants in a colony all siblings (and sterile)? same goes for termites
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Aug 21, 2019 19:14
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Modest Mao posted:Aren't ants in a colony all siblings (and sterile)? same goes for termites For most species but there's some variation. Some ant species will have multiple queens in the same colony. Some will have newly adult queens take over sometimes instead of founding a new colony. There's even a species where division of sexual labor is socially enforced rather than biologically--workers are capable of getting pregnant but their sisters will starve them until they miscarry. That is, unless the queen is dead, in which case the colony has a backup plan.
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Aug 21, 2019 19:18
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Modest Mao posted:Aren't ants in a colony all siblings (and sterile)? same goes for termites maybe that's what jeffrey epstein was trying to create with his breeding program idea
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Aug 21, 2019 19:18
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Modest Mao posted:Aren't ants in a colony all siblings (and sterile)? same goes for termites For the most part, yeah, Most ants in a colony are siblings, but there are types of ants that have multiple queens in a single colony or will have workers that help establish satellite colonies when they run into new queens that are somewhat related. There are also The Argentine Ants, which have a small handful of globe-spanning super colonies where sub nests will not out-compete with each other.
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Aug 21, 2019 19:19
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 18:37 |
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cheetah7071 posted:I was more thinking things like, presumably rope and cloth technology advanced a lot between prehistory and the rafts he was emulating (which were from Incan records and thus less than a thousand years old). If nothing else I assume domesticated cotton/hemp makes a better material than the wild equivalents. If I'm wrong then I learned something new today. I can't say for certainty unfortunately, I can only go by the wiki and other sites I found about the expedition. According to everything i read so far, he used as much of the old technologies as was possible. If I recall corectly, when it came to building the RA II, he even went as far as hiring native boat builders, Quecha and Aumara indians from lake Titicaca, to build it.
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Aug 21, 2019 19:29
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