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Vote to threadban Bioshuffle This poll is closed. |
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| Yes (Goku) |
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146 | 85.38% |
| No (also Goku) |
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25 | 14.62% |
| Total: | 171 votes | ||
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Bust Rodd posted:I’m not trying to start a derail but if not now, then when? I mean A) his rape poo poo wasn't exactly on the 'mild' side (there is no mild rape yes, I know) it was literally 'gently caress me or I'll have you fired before you even start, also you're asking for it', and B) we've seen already with poo poo like Aziz coming back to instantly start doing specials without any apology or anything other than saying lines like “I felt so many things in the last year or so: There’s times I felt scared, there’s times I felt humiliated, there’s times I felt embarrassed, and ultimately I just felt terrible that this person felt this way” in his special and CK just popping into rando open mikes and all that there's a fair argument to make that 'redemption' has lost all meaning and instead has been replaced with 'OK GUYS I'M BORED NOT MAKING MONEY ANY MORE CAN I COME BACK????' for the wealthy and famous. So, yea, I'd say it'd be surprising if Deep got a proper 'redemption' story. He'll probably get a 'ok you're trying to be a better person but you're still a sack of poo poo' story that ends with him maybe doing something selfless before getting splattered by Homelander if anything. That more fits the tone, you don't get a 'redemption', you can try to be better than you were, but you're not entitled to a happy ending just because you're sorry.
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Aug 21, 2019 22:29
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sexpig by night posted:So, yea, I'd say it'd be surprising if Deep got a proper 'redemption' story. He'll probably get a 'ok you're trying to be a better person but you're still a sack of poo poo' story that ends with him maybe doing something selfless before getting splattered by Homelander if anything. That more fits the tone, you don't get a 'redemption', you can try to be better than you were, but you're not entitled to a happy ending just because you're sorry. Redemption by way of sacrifice is a pretty standard arc for characters that have done something unforgivable.
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Aug 21, 2019 22:47
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Roman Polanski was never cancelled and continues to be lauded to this day. So no, I don’t think there’s room for nuance when the only person who’s ever faced consequences in your examples is the dude who was openly raping women in Hollywood for decades and everyone knew about it and when he was finally brought down the response was “well that’s over since I’m not as bad as Weinstein”
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Aug 21, 2019 23:04
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Just compared Aziz to an actual rapist. Christ.
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Aug 22, 2019 01:25
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GORDON posted:Just compared Aziz to an actual rapist. Christ. If you think that’s offensive, you’re gonna be furious when you find out that the actual rapist is a cherished director who suffered no setbacks for his actions.
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Aug 22, 2019 01:33
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This was a really clever way to shoot around mot having the budget to show this raid.
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Aug 22, 2019 01:35
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Trevor Hale posted:If you think that’s offensive, you’re gonna be furious when you find out that the actual rapist is a cherished director who suffered no setbacks for his actions. Whoopi assured me that he was merely a rapist, not a rapist rapist, so it was ok
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Aug 22, 2019 01:38
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Aziz did apologize, publicly and privately, multiple times, and even reserves the first few minutes of his new Netflix special to address it, which will be watched for years after anyone remembers that he did those things. Like, honestly, what does redemption look like? Do they donate their entire net worth to a woman's shelter? Do they take classes? Do they fund public education so that young men have to take "social responsibility" courses in school where they learn things like "No means No?" and "How to tell if your date doesn't really wanna blow you and is just trying to be nice to get out of a weird situation"? How long, approximately, do they need to wait before going back to work? I don't think anyone has good answers to these questions, but the only people who seem to offer any are the ones who are out for blood. They think people should just retire and go live on an island somewhere (or in the case of this very show, landlock the water guy at a water park in Iowa) and that is wholly unrealistic. I just think some people need to be able to reintegrate into society after they've made mistakes, but in order for that to happen there needs to be more of a dialogue about, well, basically everything regarding how we approach sexual assault in this society. I just think that this show, whose two primary plotlines basically revolve around rape, is poised to handle this material in an interesting way, and with the critical acclaim it's getting and the big numbers Amazon is seeing from it, I think they have a chance to inform the conversation.
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Aug 22, 2019 02:38
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Bust Rodd posted:Aziz did apologize, publicly and privately, multiple times, and even reserves the first few minutes of his new Netflix special to address it, which will be watched for years after anyone remembers that he did those things. quote:"There's times I felt scared, there's times I felt humiliated, there's times I felt embarrassed, and ultimately, I just felt terrible that this person felt this way," the comedian says in the opening part of the special. "And after a year or so, I just hope it was a step forward." 
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Aug 22, 2019 03:31
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Yeah personally I think people don't wanna see a creep back in their regular job. "Oh but he was really sorry for like 8 months!"
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Aug 22, 2019 03:37
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Trevor Hale posted:If you think that’s offensive, you’re gonna be furious when you find out that the actual rapist is a cherished director who suffered no setbacks for his actions. Well, he does have to spend the rest of his days in France.
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Aug 22, 2019 04:53
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What did aziz do?
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Aug 22, 2019 06:33
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If you search couch chat, there's probably about 9000 pages on it.
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Aug 22, 2019 06:51
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FilthyImp posted:Yeah personally I think people don't wanna see a creep back in their regular job. Is it better if they have another job?
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Aug 22, 2019 07:32
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PostNouveau posted:What did aziz do? I may be forgetting some key details, but from what I remember, he went on a date with a girl, ended up taking her back to his hotel room, and assaulted her by sticking his fingers down her throat. It was some kind of hosed up attempt to be sexual, I dunno, that’s a thing people do I guess. Look, if I’m being honest, I’m sort of on Bust Rodd’s “side” in that while Ansari was clearly lovely and any trauma his date suffered is valid, I don’t know if I’d lump him in with Polanski and Weinstein. In fact, the way the story came out was REALLY shady and unintentionally fed a counter-narrative that, looking back, might’ve helped muddy the waters of #MeToo so that the perception was less about taking down powerful, abusive figures and interrogating the amount of leeway we give perceived geniuses and more about gossip. In that light, Ansari’s non-apology makes sense and is frankly honest: He can’t actually be sorry if he still doesn’t understand, at heart, that he was wrong. But the fact is, Ansari was wrong. And complaining that people like him don’t have a path to “redemption” misses the point of redemption: it involves recognizing your lovely behavior and making an honest effort to change for yourself, not your career. For me, it also means accepting that you’re not obligated to be forgiven for your transgressions and forging ahead anyway—this is a very personal journey. It’s not a game; there’s no magical rewarding of one’s old life when they’ve atoned “enough.” It’s a commitment that goes beyond the boundaries of one’s public image. To complain that redemption isn’t something that’s offered to someone who seems to be making penance...well, it’s like complaining about a drought because your local farmer’s been working so hard. The Gods don’t give a gently caress. To bring it back to the show, that’s where The Deep is right now. He’s an entitled, earnest gently caress-up who is incapable of understanding the depth of his shittiness and thus can’t square his actions with where he ended up, which ultimately led to his head-shaving breakdown. Now we don’t know if Ansari can actually, privately admit to himself that he was wrong. We can guess, and how you guess would certainly inform how you feel about him today. But we can see that The Deep doesn’t feel that way at all—even after his own sexual assault—and his reward for that is a fate, at least at the end of the first season, that faintly recalls where Ennis left Stillwell in the comics—losing his hair because he sees that his life has amounted to nothing. Now this may lead to some sort of redemptive arc for him; I don’t know the future. But I’m not seeing a man reach rock bottom in that scene, readying himself to climb back up. I’m seeing a man who THINKS he’s hit rock bottom because the would-be dolphin fucker does not get it, and has resigned himself to eternal failure without ever really understanding why. DivisionPost fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Aug 22, 2019 |
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Aug 22, 2019 08:41
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Maybe he's going maximum Ennis/Millar/Ellis with a "Who rapes the rapists?" gimmick.
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Aug 22, 2019 08:46
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Panfilo posted:I mean he never really apologized, he just begged Stillwell to make the problem go away. Maybe all the things happening to him will make him genuinely contrite but as long as he's still part of the seven he'll never see it. That's not particularly surprising. From the dialog I get the vibe that Deep's expectation was Vought was going to make this go away like all the others so it's a shock that he's being held accountable. His crappy apology makes sense for someone who's likely never had to apologize before. For as far as he's fallen, I think he's got farther to fall before he's at that point where he potentially changes for the better or worse.
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Aug 22, 2019 09:48
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sexpig by night posted:So, yea, I'd say it'd be surprising if Deep got a proper 'redemption' story. He'll probably get a 'ok you're trying to be a better person but you're still a sack of poo poo' story that ends with him maybe doing something selfless before getting splattered by Homelander if anything. That more fits the tone, you don't get a 'redemption', you can try to be better than you were, but you're not entitled to a happy ending just because you're sorry. yeah I think if anything it'll be along these lines.
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Aug 22, 2019 09:52
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He's gonna get the Rickety Cricket treatment
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Aug 22, 2019 17:16
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Bust Rodd posted:I’m only bringing it up because The Boys is literally the only TV show I’ve ever seen even flirting with a redemption arc for a character that sexually assaults the female lead in their first loving scene. There is not a single scene involving The Deep that is in any way redemptive. His filmed apology is a multiple take performance. His victimization by Gill Lady is a karmic eye for an eye to the viewer, and isn’t shown to lead to any new self-awareness. His sad Sineading in the mirror isn’t him realizing he was wrong, it’s him with the sads because he’s stuck in the minors in Ohio. Don’t confuse him being punished with him being redeemed.
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Aug 22, 2019 18:51
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Rhyno posted:I was full on sleep deprived when I read the post and thought he was referencing an actual Wolverine story. 
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Aug 22, 2019 18:51
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I thought this was possibly what he was talking about but this Sleeveless posted:My favorite Wolverine plotline is the one where he mutely curls up on the carpet like a child and scribbles with crayons, occasionally pausing to hold one up for approval from his crush or brushing his hair to try and look pretty for them. You know, totally feral unbridled empowerment stuff. Doesn't really line up with it.
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Aug 22, 2019 18:54
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I can't help but feel there's something important about Homelander and Becca spending three hours loving even though he lasted less than a minute with Stillwell. That being the show's first hint that Black Noir is a Homelander clone would certainly fit the tone.
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Aug 23, 2019 03:59
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MizPiz posted:I can't help but feel there's something important about Homelander and Becca spending three hours loving even though he lasted less than a minute with Stillwell. That being the show's first hint that Black Noir is a Homelander clone would certainly fit the tone. The show has said that Homelander is functionally invulnerable and nothing that has been used on him has hurt him. Kimiko cut Black Noir with her nails during their encounter.
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Aug 23, 2019 04:36
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:The show has said that Homelander is functionally invulnerable and nothing that has been used on him has hurt him. Kimiko cut Black Noir with her nails during their encounter. Yeah she was kinda loving him up for a second I thought. That’s the only thing that makes me think they aren’t doing it though. Also it’s kinda stupid and makes no sense anyway so hopefully they don’t do it at all. Like what’s the backup plan for black noir? Who apparently went crazy first anyway in the comics. It’s poop, it’s bad and dumb.
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Aug 23, 2019 06:28
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Harton posted:Also it’s kinda stupid and makes no sense anyway so hopefully they don’t do it at all. Yeah I'm with you on this and I would be sincerely surprised if they kept it. I don't think anything in the show has indicated they intended to head in that direction. "You're doing great!" just seemed like a little dash of humor for us, the viewing audience, and he lasted a hot second with Stillwell because he has had an enormous boner for her for years. Also it sounds like in the comic Noir's central plotline is gaslighting Homes into being a psychopath and in the show he clearly does that just fine on his own. e: more spoiler tags LITERALLY A BIRD fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Aug 23, 2019 |
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Aug 23, 2019 07:14
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The comics didn't have the baby survive, I feel like the Homelander Jr. is being prepped as the Homelander replacement instead of Black Noir as a clone replacement, so there's no need for him to be a clone since they're altering the story beat to make it more interesting. They kept the character because he's a good batman knockoff but he's just rear end in a top hat batman in this world as far as I can tell. They could still go the other way with it but that detail you guys mentioned would mean it would kinda be an inconsistency in the story.
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Aug 23, 2019 08:06
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Zaphod42 posted:I feel like the Homelander Jr. is being prepped as the Homelander replacement instead of Black Noir as a clone replacement As a viewer that hasn't read the source material this sounds waaaay more plausible and makes way more sense.
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Aug 23, 2019 08:11
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I've marathoned this show over the last day or so and enjoyed it more than I anticipated. Reading the comic synopsis though, goddamn Ennis really went full Ennis didn't he? I really hope they make some of the creative changes being suggested ITT.
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Aug 23, 2019 08:44
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I hope they only keep Noir in the show to put him in social situations where people address him and he turns to them as if to talk, then he just doesn't do anything. Or him looking kinda sad with a beverage in hand. Those were great little running gags throughout the show.
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Aug 23, 2019 08:53
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:The show has said that Homelander is functionally invulnerable and nothing that has been used on him has hurt him. Kimiko cut Black Noir with her nails during their encounter. That just means The Boys have a member that could potentially harm Homelander. For all we know, maybe she can in this version Grendels Dad posted:I hope they only keep Noir in the show to put him in social situations where people address him and he turns to them as if to talk, then he just doesn't do anything. Or him looking kinda sad with a beverage in hand. Those were great little running gags throughout the show. Not you, Black Noir, you're doing great 
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Aug 23, 2019 09:56
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90% of The Deeps scenes after ep1 are him being shallow (ha) or pathetic somehow, the gills scene is really the only time you feel for him at any point. I don't really think he's being prepped for redemption.
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Aug 23, 2019 13:02
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Yeah the Deep is being set up to do a face turn and then promptly get turned into fish sticks by the Homelander after whatever half-assed heroic endeavor he tries to do to redeem himself fails horribly. Homelander Jr as the only being able to take down his father makes too much sense for them not to do, but I fully expect Homelander to prevail in that situation, should it ever occur, and then really be full on crazy bonkers.
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Aug 23, 2019 14:22
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I dunno, I feel like it makes less sense to have a character just be a total piece of poo poo, then have the character just spiral downward endlessly until they are murdered. What story are they trying to tell there, exactly? Whether or not you read it that way, the gill rape scene is 100% there so the Deep can finally see how it feels to be powerless, and I felt like that scene is meant to catalyze The Deep into some kind of change. That is actually one of the really cool parts of the show: the endless swap of power dynamics. Stillwell is basically a billionaire Charles Xavier who tells politicians to kick rocks and blackmails senators... but Homelander still scares her. Translucent is an unkillable assassin... until he gets locked in a cage and butt bombed. Huey is at the very bottom of every totem pole in his life... until he becomes one of The Boys. Starlight is the new girl with no pull... until she becomes the anti-rape spokeswoman. The show is constantly taking power away from the powerful people and empowering the little guys.
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Aug 23, 2019 14:37
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There's a difference between redemption and rehabilitation and there being a scorched earth policy for anything who does anything bad is one of the primary reasons why the US judicial system is hosed beyond belief, but also fuckin don't be a sex pest and expect your life to go back to the way it was
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Aug 23, 2019 14:46
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I'd be cool if The Deep tried to turn himself around and improve provided they acknowledge the lovely stuff he did in the past and that an apology doesn't just make that go away.
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Aug 23, 2019 14:52
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SardonicTyrant posted:I'd be cool if The Deep tried to turn himself around and improve provided they acknowledge the lovely stuff he did in the past and that an apology doesn't just make that go away. that's sort of how I saw it going in my head. Starlight approaches HIM, genuinely has moved past her trauma, and offers to work together for whatever reason. Maybe the Seven really start slipping and he's actually the closest thing to a good guy now. She has forgiven him, but the world still hates him and assumes it was Deep that wanted the team up, not her. And he has to just constantly deal with that because he's so desperate to be in The Seven again he's willing to be Robin to Starlight's Batman
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Aug 23, 2019 14:57
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The doctor pointedly saying Homelander should have been raised with a parent makes me think that Becca is in cahoots with Vought and they planned for the kid to be a "debugged" replacement for Homelander.
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Aug 23, 2019 15:00
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Yeah I really slept on this show cause of the terrible advertisements. Like seriously they made it seem like bro edge superhero show. They really undersold the concept in the ad run, it’s a completely different show. I would have watched this poo poo day one if I knew what it was.
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Aug 23, 2019 15:20
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Who knew that Homelander's power set included super thirst.
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Aug 23, 2019 15:38
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