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Seems obvious it was probably originally drawn with batman's pants off and then editorial nixed it.
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Aug 21, 2019 22:16
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Lightning Lord posted:it's the passage from Dune when Liet-Kynes tells Paul about how the stillsuits work, except Batmanized So it's not to hide the fact that he pisses his pants, it's to hide the fact he then drinks the piss.
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Aug 22, 2019 02:42
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Skwirl posted:So it's not to hide the fact that he pisses his pants, it's to hide the fact he then drinks the piss. It's sterile and he likes the taste.
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Aug 22, 2019 13:26
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I just had the craziest dream. I was watching an unaired episode of Justice League unlimited call the "Hell I sent you." Basically, both the heroes and villains on Earth have been put into the Omega sanction. The heroes and villains all die one by one in what is a normal superhero battle. When everything resets, it dawn on them something is wrong. So it's like a normal episode and then they start dying and then it starts over. And now they all have to work together to find a way out of the Omega sanction. It was the Riddler, oddly enough, he figured it out because he view the predicament as a riddle. And the Joker's actually working against them because he likes living in the Omega sanction. And of course, Lex Luthor was butting heads with Superman to lead this operation. Honestly this was a pretty loving awesome dream.
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Aug 23, 2019 12:19
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I don't read any DC, but have heard enough people on these forums talk about the Injustice comics and seen it posted in the badass thread. https://www.amazon.com/Injustice-Go...ASIN=1401262791 I've been tracking this trade on CamelCamelCamel for a while, and it's reached the cheapest price. My question is if this is the version with the coloring that was fixed up and stopped things like Batman's weird mouth and other art errors?
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Aug 23, 2019 22:55
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Yeah, they fixed the art errors in the collected versions (and possibly the initial print floppies?)
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Aug 23, 2019 23:35
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One day in Len Wein's office in the 1970's: "Hmm... the first issue of this swamp monster comic is boffo! But what am I going to have the swamp guy do next issue? I've got it! He goes to Eastern Europe!" I'm reading the pre-Alan Moore Swamp Thing stories since my Fourth World stuff is all boxed up and it was so weird to immediately ditch the swamp setting. Berni Wrightson is amazing, though.
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Aug 24, 2019 03:29
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Random Stranger posted:One day in Len Wein's office in the 1970's: I'm curious for your insights on this run; from the preface Moore wrote, it sounded like it was pretty goofy and had Swamp Thing riding around on the back of a truck a lot.
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Aug 24, 2019 12:48
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A Strange Aeon posted:I'm curious for your insights on this run; from the preface Moore wrote, it sounded like it was pretty goofy and had Swamp Thing riding around on the back of a truck a lot. Six issues in and it's good 70's horror book stuff mainly on the strength of the art which is absolutely incredible. As a story arc, it doesn't make one goddamned bit of sense since Swamp Thing is grabbing onto the outside of planes and flying around the world, constantly being dropped in places that might as well be in the eighteenth century. I'm still in the 1970's series, though. Moore might have been talking about the 1980 series which started because there was a Swamp Thing movie coming out (and the second issue has a photo cover of the movie suit): 
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Aug 24, 2019 18:10
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I read the bits in between the original Lein Wein horror book and the Moore run and it really wasn't worth it.
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Aug 24, 2019 23:34
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So at some point this evening, my free month-long Marvel Unlimited subscription ended. But I made the most of it, and I appreciated the recommendations I got over in the Recommendations thread. Over the last month (while not reading anything else for pleasure), I read: Daredevil by Ann Nocenti and John Romita Jr. #236, 238-291 Mystery Men by David Liss and Patrick Zircher #1-4 Multiple Man by Matthew Rosenberg #1-5 (one of the only things that left me cold) Uncanny X-Men by Chris Claremont and Marc Silvestri, Jim Lee, etc. #235-280 New Mutants #87-88, 95-97 (X-Tinction Agenda crossovers) X-Factor #60-62 (X-Tinction Agenda crossovers), 67-71 Spider-Woman by Dennis "Hopeless" Hallum and Javier Rodriguez #1, 5-10 (the good stuff starts with #5), #1-17 The Twelve by J. Michael Straczynski and Chris Weston #1-12 All-New Hawkeye by Jeff Lemire and Ramon Perez #1-5, #1-6 Hawkeye by Kelly Thompson and Leonardo Romero #1-16 Generations: Hawkeye & Hawkeye #1 by Kelly Thompson Amazing Spider-Man by David Michelinie and Todd McFarlane #298-325, 328 I had hoped to read the Nocenti Daredevil run, the post-Fraction Hawkeye material, and the modern Spider-Woman stuff, and I really enjoyed all of it. I liked Mystery Men and The Twelve a lot, after reading the first TPB of The Twelve probably over a decade ago and not remembering anything. The Uncanny X-Men was a deep dive into the past, in order to prepare me for the final volume of Ed Piskor's X-Men: Grand Design (I should be getting mine on Tuesday), and because I jumped into Uncanny with #272 as a middle schooler and wasn't able to afford many back issues prior to that. Almost all of this was new to me, and I think it aged pretty well, for the most part. I figured I'd start during the Australian Outback era with the introduction of Genosha, since I knew X-Tinction Agenda was all about that. Claremont really was a master of juggling a huge cast and setting up plot threads that would pay off years down the line. And Jim Lee's art was glorious from the very beginning. I know he put an end to that look of hers, but Psylocke's pink and purple armor/cape/hood/mask costume is still an all-time favorite. I also jumped on the McFarlane bandwagon with Spider-Man #1 back then, and his Amazing back issues were out of my price range. I only ever had two of those issues back in the day, that I got from some really lucky trading. I realize now that even though he revolutionized drawing Spider-Man, co-created Venom and drew him better than anyone since, and drew the gently caress out of the Prowler (completely ripping off his look for Spawn), his human faces and bodies were pretty exaggerated to the point of looking grotesque.
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Aug 25, 2019 05:16
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Nocenti's Daredevil is so weird and so beautiful, it really meanders and gets lost but it isn't really like anything else, and I think for whatever with JRjr her super lurid and lyrical scripting style lands a lot better and feels a lot more bespoke than with roughly contemporaneous stuff like the incomprehensible Longshot mini.
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Aug 25, 2019 06:39
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Archyduchess posted:Nocenti's Daredevil is so weird and so beautiful, it really meanders and gets lost but it isn't really like anything else. She created Typhoid Mary, didn't she?
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Aug 25, 2019 06:41
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Skwirl posted:She created Typhoid Mary, didn't she? Yup! Archyduchess posted:Nocenti's Daredevil is so weird and so beautiful, it really meanders and gets lost but it isn't really like anything else, and I think for whatever with JRjr her super lurid and lyrical scripting style lands a lot better and feels a lot more bespoke than with roughly contemporaneous stuff like the incomprehensible Longshot mini. It felt like an early '90s Vertigo book to me, with all the surreal and supernatural elements and the general sleazy, seamy, atmosphere of a Hell's Kitchen that felt like Hell on Earth. There were a lot of metaphysical musings amid the Frank Miller-esque urban noir "misery porn." Blackheart and Mephisto kept showing back up to test and torture Matt, and the "Inferno" crossover had the dangerous, hopeless city literally come alive to brutally murder innocent inhabitants, with Daredevil unable to help much there. There were lots of other Miller-esque touches -- Typhoid Mary most of all, the "virgin/whore" dichotomy rolled into one character, and her obvious sexual relationship with Wilson Fisk while she tried to seduce Matt away from Karen Page. Nocenti even threw in a genetically-modified Barbie-like bimbo created in a lab and an angry feminist/activist character to play off her. And to make things weirder, Nocenti took Matt out of New York and sent him on the road to rediscover himself after "Born Again," where he sometimes seemed like a side character in whatever bizarre psychodramas she wanted to tell. It was all new to me, and it must have been groundbreaking, discomforting material back in the late '80s, especially following "Born Again," arguably the greatest Daredevil story of all time. Other than that, I don't know enough about Nocenti as a writer to recognize her distinct stylistic traits, like how I always recognize Miller, Claremont, Ellis, Bendis, Brubaker, etc. But as a big Daredevil fan, I was really surprised by how much I liked this run, and how it aged pretty well. I read her Longshot miniseries a few years ago because I'm a giant Arthur Adams fan, and I had never gotten around to reading it. I found it frustrating and disappointing. "Incomprehensible" is the perfect word, especially since I liked Longshot in Claremont's Uncanny X-Men and later in David's X-Factor, and always thought Mojo was an interesting, creepy, gross X-Men villain. Even Adams' art (his first published job) was pretty disappointing, but he would be amazing shortly after that, in the New Mutants Special and Uncanny X-Men Annual where they all go to Asgard. I loved those comics so much when I was a kid. I forgot that I also binge-read a short J.M. DeMatteis Daredevil story arc (#344-350), about Matt having another mental break and dealing with a really gross serial killer called "Sir," who happened to be a strong and violent woman who was so obsessed with masculinity that she identified as a man and forgot she was a woman. It was extremely problematic, on top of being a bad story with some particularly ugly art. And I usually love DeMatteis' work. Big Bad Voodoo Lou fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 07:13
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Archyduchess posted:Nocenti's Daredevil is so weird and so beautiful, it really meanders and gets lost but it isn't really like anything else, and I think for whatever with JRjr her super lurid and lyrical scripting style lands a lot better and feels a lot more bespoke than with roughly contemporaneous stuff like the incomprehensible Longshot mini. The one thing that strikes me most about Nocenti's run is that she hates people. That run seems to be based on the idea that people are genuinely awful deep down and there is no redemption for humanity.
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Aug 25, 2019 18:09
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Random Stranger posted:people are genuinely awful deep down and there is no redemption for humanity. *glances at humanity* checks out
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Aug 25, 2019 18:15
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Yeah where is she wrong?
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Aug 25, 2019 18:22
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the fallacy there is the idea that we can't get better, that attempting forward progress is pointless because we're incapable of it anyways. it's a really lovely and defeatist way to look at the world.
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Aug 25, 2019 21:45
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i would disagree that those two things are as inherently intertwined as you make them out to be
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Aug 25, 2019 21:58
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Rhyno posted:Yeah where is she wrong? Getting serious for a moment here, but a central tenet of superhero comics is the power of the individual to improve society. Yeah, the genre fails at that metatextually since Batman is never going to make Gotham less of a poo poo hole and Superman is always going to uphold the status quo, but the idea that people can be selfless, that they can be inherently good is a foundational principle. Nocenti's Daredevil is pretty much saying, "gently caress that!" and wallowing in the black pits of the soul. It's a great run and it might be even more influential than Miller in terms of setting the tone for DD stories to come, but drat is it bleak. I mean this is the run where Daredevil enters a bar on July 5th and is still in there getting drunk on Christmas having never left. It goes some weird places.
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Aug 26, 2019 03:55
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I don't think Nocenti is a nihilist, there are numerous good to not-so-good stories throughout her career that demonstrate that she has from the start been uncommonly committed to using superhero comics as a vehicle for social and political agitation. I think part of what's so compelling to me though is the well-known bit about how when she broke into Marvel she was basically totally unfamiliar with the ins and outs of the genre-- she came to the medium through Dick Tracy and Pogo and, later, underground comix. She's approaching these narratives with an outsider's perspective, and from that perspective, sure, a very intuitive direction to take the reins of a character at that point still heavily determined by Frank Miller's neo-noir is even further into existential angst, albeit a stripe of angst that's less stoic and almost primly reactionary than Miller even at his best, more informed by her countercultural background and a floridness that I'd call lush, or, again, lyrical. If Miller's Daredevil inhabits a cosmos that's dirty in the same way that Raymond Chandler or Jim Thompson's worlds are dirty, than the griminess and depravity of Nocenti's DD is more like the fever-dreams of Rimbaud or Baudelaire, which imo meshes with the political and social theory she was reading at the time as she worked on her Master's degree. To pick up on Random Stranger's point, I think she's reacting with a somewhat justified bafflement at precisely that moralistic stasis that underlies a lot of superhero comics-- if Gotham is going to stay grimy and cruel and evil, what does that say about the people who live there, how do they interface with a world that's locked into this agonistic back-and-forth completely beyond their ability to do anything about it? How does altruism and courage look in that kind of world, how does it behave? I think it's less that there's no hope of redemption for humanity, it's that given the narrative architecture Matt Murdock traverses there's no hope of redemption for him because he travels among people who have also foreclosed that possibility for themselves, and she spends much of the run digging into why they've resigned themselves to that. I'm thinking of one of the highlights of the run, the ridiculous but very fun and ultimately satisfying fight against Ultron. It's a gorgeous brawl where she really lets JRjr cut loose, with great splash pages of the Inhuman flying around and beating rear end, but it's also about someone trying to outgrow his worst instincts and getting beaten and destroyed for it. At the same time, this Ultron, who is willing and desperate to grow, is also still a crazed murderer. Everybody's in the wrong, and everybody is wrong within closely held frameworks of absolute moral certainty. Ditto the whole arc with Number Nine the perfect woman, or the stuff with Mephisto and Blackheart. Even the aforementioned Typhoid Mary. I think Nocenti is more than willing to imagine a trajectory of real growth and improvement for people-- I think a sadness and rage about this pervades a lot of her 80s/90s stuff-- but I think a huge part of her DD run in particular (as well as Longshot I think but god who knows with Longshot) is about how that trajectory or I guess the escape velocity required to attain towards that trajectory is impossible when one takes the structures they find themselves hazarded into as inevitable and immutable. Her DD is someone trapped in the grammar of DD comics, and her Longshot, as absurd as he is, is a beautiful anomaly in an ugly world precisely because he's intruding from outside of that grammar. It's telling imo that the last two big arcs in her run are about Bullseye trying to slip himself into that narrative and being extremely hosed up by it, and a half-coherent but weirdly compelling thing where DD and all his friends go to hell, are psychologically tormented for awhile, then saved by the Silver Surfer before one of them literally ascends to heaven. It's as far from the gritty neo-noir that the genre as a whole took as Miller's big thing as possible, and in being plucked from the cod-naturalism of that kind of narrative and into the more operatic and allegorical narrative of Mephisto and Hell, they finally can get their poo poo together and, in the case of Brandy Ash, actually for real evaporate out of superhero comics and into heaven, like some bizarre metatextual trick of aufhebung. I realize I'm being vague and probably extraordinarily broad here-- to be honest, I haven't read through the run in ages, but I want to revisit it now. But yeah, it is both a very good chunk of Daredevil comics and a difficult, disagreeable, and frequently somewhat repugnant one. I think it's an extremely provocative response to Miller and I think the medium is richer for having it. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Aug 26, 2019 |
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Aug 26, 2019 05:23
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Wow. And I thought I was a Daredevil scholar! That was awesome.
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Aug 26, 2019 06:36
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Nocenti wrote the story where a dead Spider-Man fights Thanos for the life of a little girl, and Death is so impressed she lets both of them live. So yeah, I don't think her main belief is "gently caress humanity, we're all awful".
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Aug 26, 2019 23:07
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Senior Woodchuck posted:Nocenti wrote the story where a dead Spider-Man fights Thanos for the life of a little girl, and Death is so impressed she lets both of them live. So yeah, I don't think her main belief is "gently caress humanity, we're all awful". poo poo. I bought that one as a kid. Blew my mind.
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Aug 28, 2019 08:08
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I can't remember who did it, just that it was posted in BSS somewhere - someone took the Hyde/Nemo dinner scene from League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Vol #2 and put in Achewood dialog. Does anyone still have those pages?
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Aug 28, 2019 11:22
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"You there, boy! What day is it?" "Why it's Kirbymas, sir!"  It's important at this time to remember the true spirit of Kirbymas. It isn't just about wearing elaborate hats...  ...or making wild photo collages...  ...or even punching Nazis.  The true meaning of Kirbymas is in sharing cool pictures with your friends and family before a cosmic space god devours your world. 
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Aug 28, 2019 12:48
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Did anyone else see that "Disney legend Jack Kirby" tweet?
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Aug 28, 2019 12:53
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Nessus posted:Is that the barbecue sauce one? It sure is, and (a) that's a big part of how I remember it, too, and (b) I had the very same reaction to it as a kid. I don't think I'd read a superhero comic quite like it up to that point.
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Aug 28, 2019 12:57
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S.D. posted:I can't remember who did it, just that it was posted in BSS somewhere - someone took the Hyde/Nemo dinner scene from League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Vol #2 and put in Achewood dialog. Does anyone still have those pages? My magnum opus.  
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Aug 28, 2019 13:59
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A Strange Aeon posted:Did anyone else see that "Disney legend Jack Kirby" tweet? Shut up, there's no way.
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Aug 28, 2019 14:04
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Rhyno posted:Shut up, there's no way. *sigh* Way.
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Aug 28, 2019 14:12
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God drat it what.
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Aug 28, 2019 14:29
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disney has decided they own dead people who never worked for them https://twitter.com/AgentM/status/1165315469953269760
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Aug 28, 2019 15:35
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There's a loving line.
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Aug 28, 2019 15:37
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to put it into context (gently caress disney) "Disney Legends" is like (gently caress disney) their version of a hall of fame (gently caress disney) or something. (gently caress disney)
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Aug 28, 2019 15:39
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Is this the time where I say that is no ethical consumption under capitalism and that the concept of a corporation is inherently dehumanizing and should be outlawed?
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Aug 28, 2019 23:58
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I'm not saying it's right, but didn't they make him a "Disney Legend" last year?
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Aug 29, 2019 01:24
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Senior Woodchuck posted:I'm not saying it's right, but didn't they make him a "Disney Legend" last year? Yeah. Disney Legend isn't just a describer it's an actual thing. It's like their Hall of Fame they do at D23 every two years. Jack Kirby was inducted at the last one with his son accepting the award. Robert Downey Jr, Ming Na Wen, and Jon Favreau among others got in this year.
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Aug 29, 2019 01:33
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This is why I refer to our president as WWE Hall of Famer Donald Trump (Home Alone 2, Zoolander)
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Aug 29, 2019 01:37
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Is Salvador Dali a Disney Legend? He did work on Fantasia.
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Aug 29, 2019 03:00
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