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AlternateNu posted:Yes. Spirits is A Thing again. Whelp, gently caress my entire loving life then. Or get the ~$350 of stuff to get spirits up and running, since there's large amounts of crossover with humans as far as expensive cards go.
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Aug 27, 2019 13:06
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Sad I never picked up nobles Glad I got SFM rotting in my binder for years
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Aug 27, 2019 13:13
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When in god's loving name was spirits NOT a horrifically obnoxious deck?
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Aug 27, 2019 13:26
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Tubgoat posted:When in god's loving name was spirits NOT a horrifically obnoxious deck? The last year or so when Izzet Phoenix was keeping it at bay?
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Aug 27, 2019 13:27
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Riiiiiiight, 'cause it returns, not casts.
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Aug 27, 2019 13:32
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Tubgoat posted:Riiiiiiight, 'cause it returns, not casts. I dunt understand this
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Aug 27, 2019 13:37
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Out of all the Looting decks, Phoenix probably loses the least. I'm not saying it hurts, but it isn't as backbreaking compared to the gameplan of Mardu Pyro or Dredge. Thought Scour can work, or maybe you can also play a Bedlam Reveler or 2.
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Aug 27, 2019 13:39
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ShaneB posted:I dunt understand this Spell Queller could exile Phoenix were it cast from the GY and not just returned via three spell casts.
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Aug 27, 2019 13:40
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Tubgoat posted:Spell Queller could exile Phoenix were it cast from the GY and not just returned via three spell casts. This is not why spirits lost to Phoenix though. It's the upheaval on a 7/8.
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Aug 27, 2019 13:52
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Stone Freed would have been a much better thread title.
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Aug 27, 2019 13:57
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ShaneB posted:This is not why spirits lost to Phoenix though. It's the upheaval on a 7/8. Yeah. If you can stick a Thing, Quellers become near useless.
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Aug 27, 2019 13:58
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Thoughts on big mana in general coming back? Slower format lets Titan shift and amulet Titan back into the mix. Obviously tron wins big here. Does blood moon have a place in the format again (even if it isn’t the best answer to tron?)
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Aug 27, 2019 14:09
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smertrioslol posted:Thoughts on big mana in general coming back? Slower format lets Titan shift and amulet Titan back I to Amulet titan gets absolutely poo poo on by spirits, and the UW matchup is no longer very favored. Affinity and scales both beat it at a good clip and whirza is also a bad matchup. It beats jund pretty well though
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Aug 27, 2019 14:13
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GoutPatrol posted:Out of all the Looting decks, Phoenix probably loses the least. I'm not saying it hurts, but it isn't as backbreaking compared to the gameplan of Mardu Pyro or Dredge. Thought Scour can work, or maybe you can also play a Bedlam Reveler or 2. Izzet Charm isn’t completely unreasonable either. I actually do think Dredge will be fine through this, if nowhere as explosive now.
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Aug 27, 2019 15:00
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TheKingofSprings posted:Izzet Charm isn’t completely unreasonable either. I just have a really hard time with the tempo issues of izzet charm...
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Aug 27, 2019 15:11
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GoutPatrol posted:Out of all the Looting decks, Phoenix probably loses the least. I'm not saying it hurts, but it isn't as backbreaking compared to the gameplan of Mardu Pyro or Dredge. Thought Scour can work, or maybe you can also play a Bedlam Reveler or 2. phoenix as a card is dead in modern. without the insane ceiling of getting out 1-2 phoenixes on turn 2, you're just not going to be able to consistently do something that competes with what your opponent is doing. the u/r shell of thing in the ice/lightning bolt/opt is still viable but it needs to be rebuilt into something more reactive because it's no longer able to blindly race. mono red phoenix is dead, maybe the prowess deck can survive somehow but i doubt it, the card selection of faithless looking was super important for making sure your hand did something explosive
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Aug 27, 2019 15:48
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TheKingofSprings posted:Izzet Charm isn’t completely unreasonable either. I just think at that point that you'd have a better u/r deck if you cut the phoenixes and charms for something else I agree that dredge will be fine as long as people cut back on graveyard hate. tormenting voice is less of a tempo vacuum for them because dredging twice advances their gameplan a lot more than just discarding a phoenix
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Aug 27, 2019 15:57
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rkajdi posted:Whelp, gently caress my entire loving life then. Or get the ~$350 of stuff to get spirits up and running, since there's large amounts of crossover with humans as far as expensive cards go. I would bet on humans still being a good deck post unban
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Aug 27, 2019 15:58
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little munchkin posted:phoenix as a card is dead in modern. without the insane ceiling of getting out 1-2 phoenixes on turn 2, you're just not going to be able to consistently do something that competes with what your opponent is doing. the u/r shell of thing in the ice/lightning bolt/opt is still viable but it needs to be rebuilt into something more reactive because it's no longer able to blindly race. UR kiln is still a thing and actually pretty reliable considering you can pack both forces and shoals as needed. Still pretty fragile, but it's surprisingly consistent at T3ing anyone that doesn't have enough removal. I definitely agree though that, barring printing careful study or something, Phoenix in modern is dead today. Moving your combo turn to 3 maybe, 4 probably is vastly less powerful then what your opponent is likely to be doing. Especially considering you don't even win on the spot, you still need to attack two or three more times. Not many good decks do pretty much nothing until t3 or 4 and then win 3 turns later.
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Aug 27, 2019 16:02
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little munchkin posted:I just think at that point that you'd have a better u/r deck if you cut the phoenixes and charms for something else I don't see how anyone is betting on dredge still being good. What in the world is going to replace looting?
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Aug 27, 2019 16:11
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Sickening posted:I don't see how anyone is betting on dredge still being good. What in the world is going to replace looting? Insolant Neonate, Shriekhorn, cards which already saw play and will still be able to accomplish the same thing if less efficiently. E: Dredge can use Life From The Loam to recur Peatland for additional Dredges or use cycle lands, they’re not totally dead in the water or anything.
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Aug 27, 2019 16:15
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TheKingofSprings posted:Insolant Neonate, Shriekhorn, cards which already saw play and will still be able to accomplish the same thing if less efficiently. Shriekhorn isn't replacing looting as it was already played along side looting. Insolant Neonate keeping dredge playable sounds like a loving long shot.
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Aug 27, 2019 16:17
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Dredge can just go back to the original build with Neonates, Gargadon and Bridge from Below.
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Aug 27, 2019 16:35
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suicidesteve posted:Dredge can just go back to the original build with Neonates, Gargadon and Bridge from Below. It can what now?
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Aug 27, 2019 16:44
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Neonate is a bad 1 drop replacement for looting and Dredge will lose some efficiency, but as long as they don't ban amalgams, voice, loam, reunion, imp, or bloodghast the deck will be around and do ok. The fact that people won't be maindecking LotV anymore is a big boon to the deck as well.
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Aug 27, 2019 16:52
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mtg finance corner: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Core+Set+2020/Woodland+Mystic#paper
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Aug 27, 2019 16:54
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Cactrot posted:It can what now? 
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Aug 27, 2019 16:55
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Dredge is going to revert to it's pre-Hogaak build but will replace Looting with Sticher's Supplier and/or Neonates. Blue centric versions using Thought Scour and Crab may pop up. It can still easily pop out 10 power on turn 2 with a Cathartic Reunion or a good Shriekhorn.
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Aug 27, 2019 17:06
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little munchkin posted:mtg finance corner: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Core+Set+2020/Woodland+Mystic#paper Cards clearly busted
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Aug 27, 2019 17:08
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little munchkin posted:mtg finance corner: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Core+Set+2020/Woodland+Mystic#paper ???
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Aug 27, 2019 17:08
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little munchkin posted:mtg finance corner: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Core+Set+2020/Woodland+Mystic#paper Is this because of the lack of llanowar elves?
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Aug 27, 2019 17:11
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ilmucche posted:Is this because of the lack of llanowar elves? It's probably only in those welcome decks. No one would actually pay that.
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Aug 27, 2019 17:19
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For some reason all the welcome deck editions of cards are expensive, so for instance an M20 Skeleton Archer is quite a bit more expensive than an M19 Skeleton Archer
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Aug 27, 2019 17:36
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There's also only one seller listed for the card, so its literally just the price of one shop you're seeing.
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Aug 27, 2019 17:40
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Is Stitcher's Supplier no longer good in Dredge? It's a friggin Zombie that can cast Gravecrawlrr, ffs.
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Aug 27, 2019 18:08
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Gravecrawler isn't a standard inclusion in dredge. I think people are drastically under-rating two things Looting does: - allow you to keep sketchier 1 landers, especially on the draw, as you are like 80% to get a 2nd land by turn 2 - the flashback double dredge is far more important than just binning 5 with something like a Tome Scour
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Aug 27, 2019 18:10
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STONEFORGE MYSTIC UNBANNED?! *slaps giant button labeled BUY MYSTICS, alarm klaxon begins blaring*
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Aug 27, 2019 18:13
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Welp, some rear end in a top hat used it against me and it was clutch.
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Aug 27, 2019 18:14
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Tubgoat posted:Is Stitcher's Supplier no longer good in Dredge? It's a friggin Zombie that can cast Gravecrawlrr, ffs. Stitcher's Supplier/Gravecrawler have never really been dredge cards, you're thinking more of bridgevine/hogaak
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Aug 27, 2019 18:23
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Elyv posted:Stitcher's Supplier/Gravecrawler have never really been dredge cards, you're thinking more of bridgevine/hogaak
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Aug 27, 2019 18:33
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