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I mean as they're in contact I would assume they can transfer heat directly between each other at full effectiveness.
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Aug 28, 2019 03:19
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Hydrogen is about half the specific heat capacity of water so you're getting 1.5x over the same path. 
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Aug 28, 2019 03:27
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temperature mechanics are so loving whack
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Aug 28, 2019 03:33
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Sage Grimm posted:Hydrogen is about half the specific heat capacity of water so you're getting 1.5x over the same path. A gas pipe only moves 1kg/s of gas though, so the gas isn't contributing much. Just stick to liquids for moving heat around.
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Aug 28, 2019 03:34
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poo poo yeah, you're right, I thought they were the same mass in the packets. You're getting like 1.05x compared to just water only then.
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Aug 28, 2019 03:53
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didn't we just establish it's averaged with the pipe's TC and its contents?
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Aug 28, 2019 04:26
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Sage Grimm posted:Hydrogen is about half the specific heat capacity of water so you're getting 1.5x over the same path. I know its just a game, but this kind of thing always weirds me out as in the real world basically nothing stable can have a higher specific heat capacity than hydrogen. It is in the 14.3 range compared to water at 4.18.
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Aug 28, 2019 04:36
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Hydrogen is, I think, the best gas for heat transfer but all gases have lovely heat capacity in ONI.
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Aug 28, 2019 04:40
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OwlFancier posted:Hydrogen is, I think, the best gas for heat transfer but all gases have lovely heat capacity in ONI. Steam is better, as is gaseous super coolant. Both have "problematic" temperature ranges though. That is usually about the point at which I design some weird conveyor rail system to move heat.
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Aug 28, 2019 04:43
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Sorry yeah I mean "natural" gases, as in things in a gas state around room temperature, obviously you can gassify most things and necessarily that would require inheriting the SHC of their parent liquid or you'd end up with weird heat deletion just through boiling.
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Aug 28, 2019 04:55
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Flesh Forge posted:didn't we just establish it's averaged with the pipe's TC and its contents? A gas pipe maxes out at 1000g per packet, liquid at 10kg. This is where specific heat capacity and total heat capacity come in. For lots of temperature stuff that’s just as important as TC. Water is actually one of the better regular radiator fluids so long as you stay in the narrow temperature range because it has decent TC and SHC.
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Aug 28, 2019 05:05
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What I'm getting at is that the pipe itself has mass and tracks heat too, so the lower mass of the gaseous contents is at least partly offset by the mass and TC of the pipe itself, and you can make them out of poo poo like steel or thermium
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Aug 28, 2019 05:08
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Flesh Forge posted:didn't we just establish it's averaged with the pipe's TC and its contents? Yes, but that only covers the exchange rate. If we want to compare the amount of heat each packet could carry we have to consider the mass and specific heat capacity. Gas maxes out at 1kg in a pipe while liquids at 10kg, therefore there's a full magnitude of difference in their carrying capacities right off the bat before their SHC comes into play.
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Aug 28, 2019 05:14
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Maybe I'm just not getting this across or maybe the idea is so wrong that everyone's automatically discounting it but does not the pipe itself conduct heat, regardless of packets of content, i.e. even if it were empty
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Aug 28, 2019 05:41
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Not, I think, particularly well. Especially as even if it did, pipes only mass, presumably, at 50kg for radiant pipe, which isn't really very much compared to the masses of structures, liquids, and tiles. You're also limited to the spread rate over the length of the pipe which is going to be much lower than a moving fluid can transfer heat. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 05:45
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Liquefy hydrogen and pump it around your base.
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Aug 28, 2019 06:23
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Flesh Forge posted:Maybe I'm just not getting this across or maybe the idea is so wrong that everyone's automatically discounting it but does not the pipe itself conduct heat, regardless of packets of content, i.e. even if it were empty Pretty sure it doesn't. Buildings (apart from Tempshift Plates) conduct heat with the gas/liquid/solid in their tile. That's why you can't cool robo-miners in space by having a liquid or a gas piped through the tile. EDIT: Checking that, it's not *always* true, some things conduct with the tile below them, but either way pipe doesn't conduct to pipe, only to its contents and the tile it's on. endlessmonotony fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 06:36
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Wait can you set up perpetual circulating loops with rail too? 
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Aug 28, 2019 07:03
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Flesh Forge posted:Wait can you set up perpetual circulating loops with rail too? Sure, it's the same mechanics. Hook a rail bridge onto the loop and stuff will circulate forever.
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Aug 28, 2019 10:40
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TIL that the reason hatchlings look different when they sleep is because they sleep belly up, and that is adorable.
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Aug 28, 2019 16:16
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Hamelekim posted:What is the hottest temperature you can make in the game? I know that I have 1500C temps with lava and the surrounding rocks. There is one metal that has a 999C failure point, so I guess that's the limit without using the environment around you? With some minor exploits you can use Magma as a coolant in a metal refinery and heat it up to 2356C before it vaporizes (you'll need spacemagic insulation for pipes) Or you can melt Gold at 1063C and use that as the coolant and get it up to 2855C (Or if you have an Iron volcano you can just get liquid iron at 2527C which can go to 2749C) ...continuing with the stupidity you can melt Steel at 2426C and heat it all the way to 3826C but if you actually want to do anything besides making 'meltdown' jokes, Wolframite sets the relatively-practical absurdity limit at 2926C silentsnack fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 17:47
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And of course, we are all aware of the highest temperature known to any player: "your robo miner in space after like 2 cycles I swear to God"
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Aug 28, 2019 19:04
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Everybody probably already knows this, but I just figured out that since wheezeworts create a vacuum in their lower tile they don't actually transfer heat from any cooling pipes behind them in that tile ... unless you drop a little fluid on the floor, and then they work a shitload better: just a little ethanol, it doesn't interfere with the plant's lifecycle it just provides a medium to transfer heat where there wouldn't be one otherwise  e: lol the reverse of this is actually true, if you put liquid in the tile then the wheezewort stops creating vacuum and stops cooling it looked like the reverse because I used a relatively cold liquid Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 20:19
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Do adding tempshift plates accomplish the same thing?
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Aug 28, 2019 20:28
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Doesn't look like it e: look at the wiki page for tempshift plates https://oxygennotincluded.gamepedia.com/Tempshift_Plate basically it exposes a bunch of mass to heat transfer independent of gas/liquid sharing a tile with it? I think that's how it works
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Aug 28, 2019 21:34
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Why do my mods keep getting disabled?
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Aug 28, 2019 21:44
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Flesh Forge posted:Everybody probably already knows this, but I just figured out that since wheezeworts create a vacuum in their lower tile they don't actually transfer heat from any cooling pipes behind them in that tile ... unless you drop a little fluid on the floor, and then they work a shitload better: Wheezes work by pulling in 1kg of gas on the bottom tile and expel it out the top 5C colder so make sure the wheezes are actually doing anything at all and it’s not just the liquid becoming a better medium for the pipe to transfer heat directly.
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Aug 28, 2019 22:58
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yeah I just realized that e: the liquid actually makes them stop cooling
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Aug 28, 2019 22:59
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Flesh Forge posted:yeah I just realized that Yeah gas and liquid can’t occupy the same tile and liquid wins whenever its got a little mass behind it so basically the wheeze is now seeing “vacuum” because no gas is present in the bottom tile. It’s the same principle as the water-over-vent trick but in a negative way. As soon as you add a drop of liquid to a tile it occupies the entire tile. It’s deceiving because it colors the space above the liquid in the tile with like a cloud, and water looks like oxygen, Oil like CO2, etc. Mazz fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 23:18
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Also I'm kind of over wheezeworts as a cooling method in general. Their effect is very weak even under ideal circumstances, and it used to be kind of worth it because they were totally free so you'd might as well stick em in your base to gradually nudge the temperature down, but now that they cost a resource I'd say to just skip them and work towards steam turbines. My colony on a verdante asteroid almost had an easier time of cooling despite having no ice biomes, because I was focused on moving ahead to a proper cooling solution rather than wasting a bunch of time collecting wheezeworts and setting up a hydrogen room for them and whatnot.
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Aug 28, 2019 23:34
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The wheezewort's properties say it's "consuming vacuum" and if the tile has some fluid/gas in it, there can't be vacuum there so the wheezewort can't consume it and can't do its cooling cycle I noticed this because when the fluid was there the "consuming vacuum" is zero g/s but when the tile is clear it's 170ish g/s
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Aug 28, 2019 23:38
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Triarii posted:Also I'm kind of over wheezeworts as a cooling method in general. Their effect is very weak even under ideal circumstances, and it used to be kind of worth it because they were totally free so you'd might as well stick em in your base to gradually nudge the temperature down, but now that they cost a resource I'd say to just skip them and work towards steam turbines. My colony on a verdante asteroid almost had an easier time of cooling despite having no ice biomes, because I was focused on moving ahead to a proper cooling solution rather than wasting a bunch of time collecting wheezeworts and setting up a hydrogen room for them and whatnot. They use so little phosphorite that you can fill up a storage once and forget about like 6-8 for 200 cycles. They’re still useful if you want to slap in a cooling loop to someplace space constricted. It only needs to be like 4 times tall and 6-12 tiles wide on average, less if you don’t care about a liquid lock entrance. But yeah with turbines getting simplified they really are the way to go.
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Aug 28, 2019 23:50
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Wheezeworts are good for cooling gases passively. Once you're needing industrial level cooling, you'll want to move into liquid via aquatuner/AETN/turbine transfer (and if you're doing ridiculous builds where state transitions are a factor, solid-state exchanges!).
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Aug 29, 2019 01:45
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Meanwhile, in Kentucky Features: - Overly complicated - Loud - High throughput, for what it is - Low maintenance, once the containers are stocked - Fun to watch When the gas sensor at the bottom smells CO2, it just opens and dumps it on the garbage room below really only the bottom row of saltvines is doing any work
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Aug 29, 2019 02:41
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I have hundreds of hours in this game but have just gotten past cycle 300 for the first time. I embarked on the Irregular Oil/Slime Pockets ice seed which Mazz shared like a month or two ago, one with relatively easy natural gas down and to the left, with a gold volcano, regular volcano, and oil reservoir also generally in that direction. I've got a basic heating system sending 10kg/s of 60C salt water into a loop around the base, for 5% of the day. Elaborations on this loop have also melted a bunch of ice in place to preserve the mass vs mining. Both the 5% loop and 95% cutoff feed into two desalinators, for 70% of the salt I need to feed the next setup. There's another pair of desalinators feeding directly from the primary containment of a salt water geyser, so I'm banking 400g/s of salt. Important because the warming loop is sourced from 240 cycles worth of spilled salt water which will run out eventually. I've got 4 rust deoxydizers in an over engineered sealed room, fed rust and salt by conveyors plonking it onto weight sensors, a conveyor loader for the Iron Ore, a loader arm to wrangle everything, two pairs of two gas pumps automated to ventilate just under the lowest barracks, and the chlorine pump which picks up about 200g of oxygen every time it activates leads to a dumping pit which in the last 20 circles has become Just Outside. That's the big deal, for only the second time I have dupes in suits. I kept three Dreckos through short lives where in total I was able to shear enough fibers for three whole suits, and now all of the really cold and hot poo poo is taken care of by specific dupes. I've got a cold slush geyser mostly contained to finish up, then I'm taking a look at oil refining and plastics for the very first time. Interior dupes just finished mining the starting biome down to the abysallite and creating a fuckoff huge CO2 sump cavern which I'm going to scrub out, so I can pump out more oxygen without high-pressure vents. Then, I'm building a practice aquatuner and turbine system, before trying to contain and harness a volcano to drive more turbines. I feel like I'm actually getting into the midgame this time instead of restarting ~
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Aug 29, 2019 03:18
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Sounds like how I like to play except I am genuinely terrible at this game  
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Aug 29, 2019 05:09
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Sounds exactly right. For most players in this it’s all just steady progression. You’ll go from tons of fast restarts to less, longer games and you’ll likely start pushing well into hundreds of cycles with ease; you’ll start to really refine stuff and do more creativity/complex builds vs any of the survival stuff. It took me a lot of restarts and finding the right seeds before I could do 1500 cycle megabases. It’s basically all just one big trial and error learning curve. Some people pick up all the little tricks/nuances real fast but for most I’ve seen it’s all just loving around and making mistakes till you learn/stop, me included. Getting comfortably into that mid game-late game mindset is the best part IMO. Mazz fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Aug 29, 2019 |
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Aug 29, 2019 10:40
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I did the same door/gas element sensor trick to purge some chlorine from my natural gas, and to my great surprise it worked flawlessly, it didn't lose a microgram of the good stuff but dumped all the chlorine
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Aug 29, 2019 10:53
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Cooling loops work much better with just liquid though. But if you're using it in conjunction with a gas, it can act as a huge heatsink / coolsink(???) that quickly transfers a poo poo tonne of heat to or from the radiant pipe carrying liquid. I think. Edit: other way around. Water has huge heat capacity so it can store a tonne of heat. Pipe hydrogen through it
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Aug 29, 2019 10:56
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I'm like that all the time yeah
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Aug 29, 2019 11:14
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