DOCTOR WHO IS CANCELLED. NO REFUNDS.

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Vinylshadow: Mar 20, 2017

Hartnell was so lively and expressive, and none of his doppelgangers have really managed to recapture that aspect, which is a drat shame

# ? Aug 23, 2019 23:19

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 17:44

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Hartnell's Doctor was, if anything, very speciesist

At first

He never seemed to consider much difference between men and women in terms of ability, with his biases instead going to Susan is obviously superior than you because she's a Time Lord and you're a dumb stupid human.

And then a dumb stupid human kept him from acting like a savage and proved to be a better person than he was, species be damned, and he cooled off on that considerably. He was still grouchy and angry and more than a bit willing to tear some poo poo up, but never was he racist or notably sexist.

The fact that the team running the first Doctor's era was possibly some of the most progressive of the *ENTIRE* franchise is one of the biggest reasons I loving hate what Moffat tried to shove down our throats, because if you want sexist, unappealing, lovely Doctor behaviors?

Just look at how he'd write Eleven around Clara before he seemed to wise the gently caress up and cut it out.

# ? Aug 23, 2019 23:25

Voting Floater: May 19, 2019

Vinylshadow posted:

Hartnell was so lively and expressive, and none of his doppelgangers have really managed to recapture that aspect, which is a drat shame

I believe Hartnell was known for playing older characters and it was part of why he was cast, but it's notable that both Richard Hurndall and David Bradley were significantly older than Hartnell had actually been when he was playing the Doctor.

Burkion posted:

The fact that the team running the first Doctor's era was possibly some of the most progressive of the *ENTIRE* franchise is one of the biggest reasons I loving hate what Moffat tried to shove down our throats, because if you want sexist, unappealing, lovely Doctor behaviors?

Just look at how he'd write Eleven around Clara before he seemed to wise the gently caress up and cut it out.

Do you mean Twelve and his lines about Clara needing to put make-up on or whatever? Because those jokes really pissed me off. I could dismiss some as being intended as the new doctor being a weird alien who doesn't know how humans work (even though that doesn't make sense), but the "jokes" go on for a whole season and come across more like nasty negging.

# ? Aug 23, 2019 23:44

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Yeah the original Hartnell crew was by design made so everybody had a different specific but equal function, which was supposed to be in line with the original concept of "explore a futuristic sci-fi concept one story, do a straight historical next story". The Doctor never treated Barbara as in any way inferior, outside of his initial disdain for Ian and Barbara EQUALLY as "only" humans (and even then, more specifically because they were from the backwards 20th Century) which quickly disappeared as they demonstrated that they had a more healthy moral code than he himself did, and helped soften him and make him a better person. His attitude towards Susan was more complicated because he had to be authoritative to a degree but was also clearly a doting Grandfather, and any talking down he did towards her was more about the relationship between them than the fact she was a woman.

That's not to say there isn't stuff during the Hartnell era that hasn't aged well, it was made in the early 60s after all so some stuff can't help but come across as vaguely racist or paternalistic, but it was never at the forefront or core of the character and his crew, and the intention was to always show them as being enlightened or open to new experiences/cultures etc.

# ? Aug 24, 2019 01:14

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Voting Floater posted:

I believe Hartnell was known for playing older characters and it was part of why he was cast, but it's notable that both Richard Hurndall and David Bradley were significantly older than Hartnell had actually been when he was playing the Doctor.

Do you mean Twelve and his lines about Clara needing to put make-up on or whatever? Because those jokes really pissed me off. I could dismiss some as being intended as the new doctor being a weird alien who doesn't know how humans work (even though that doesn't make sense), but the "jokes" go on for a whole season and come across more like nasty negging.

I honestly forgot that poo poo too.

No I was referring to how often Eleven would sexualize Clara.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJG_JXEd39k

Like THIS poo poo right here. This line has stuck with me all this time because it's such Not A Doctor Thing To loving Say

What the gently caress would the Doctor care about how tight someone's skirt was unless it was secretly an alien trying to squeeze their blood flow shut?

But then I've always, always defaulted to the Fourth Doctor on matters of his sexuality

"You're a beautiful woman probably."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT21zCzUPN0

# ? Aug 24, 2019 06:33

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Ironically didn't the 11th Doctor use the same line himself in an episode?

# ? Aug 24, 2019 11:31

Voting Floater: May 19, 2019

Burkion posted:

I honestly forgot that poo poo too.

No I was referring to how often Eleven would sexualize Clara.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJG_JXEd39k

Oh poo poo, yeah! I rewatched that episode recently and my automatic reaction was that line was implying the Doctor still had a part of the cyberman "Mr Clever" persona in him. My brain wouldn't accept that it would ever be something the Doctor would just straight-up say.

# ? Aug 24, 2019 13:12

Chokes McGee: Aug 7, 2008; This is Urotsuki.

Voting Floater posted:

I watched the Five Doctors a while back and it occurred to me that Moffat's take on One seemed to draw more on Richard Hurndall's version rather than Hartnell. It was Hurndall who told Tegan to go make him tea.

Yeah. I think Hurndall's version of One is the one ( :haw:

) everyone in America knows, because when we were little and watching the funny English time machine man on PBS that's the take we got for The Five Doctors. Since we never saw anyone before Tom, we just assume One was a mean old curmudgeon to everyone he met.

The one moment that always struck me as summing up Hartnell's Doctor was a scene where he goes from :mad:

in the span of like a second and both are so incredibly emotive and flow into each other. Yeah, he got all yelly and shouty at times, but people forget his YOU CAN'T CHANGE HISTORY NOT ONE LINE outburst was followed by a soothing "oh, come now, dear, there's nothing to be done about it now"

# ? Aug 26, 2019 05:47

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

To be fair to Moffat, Hurndall might have been the only version he knew too. He would have been a bit less than 5 years old when Hartnell bowed out. Aside from a few rarely shown reruns and The Three Doctors, he would have known One through Target Novels and little else.

# ? Aug 26, 2019 05:58

Box of Bunnies: Apr 3, 2012; by Pragmatica

Astroman posted:

To be fair to Moffat, Hurndall might have been the only version he knew too. He would have been a bit less than 5 years old when Hartnell bowed out. Aside from a few rarely shown reruns and The Three Doctors, he would have known One through Target Novels and little else.

It's just a shame he wrote Twice Upon a Time back in the 80s instead of here in the 2010s where all of Hartnell is easily accessible in one form or another, then

# ? Aug 26, 2019 06:03

Barry Foster: Dec 24, 2007; What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Box of Bunnies posted:

It's just a shame he wrote Twice Upon a Time back in the 80s instead of here in the 2010s where all of Hartnell is easily accessible in one form or another, then

This.

There's no excuse, as DW showrunner and enthusiast, to not watch all Hartnell and to not even approximate his character. I could've written him better, and I'm just some random jackass

# ? Aug 26, 2019 12:41

Sydney Bottocks: Oct 15, 2004

Barry Foster posted:

This.

There's no excuse, as DW showrunner and enthusiast, to not watch all Hartnell and to not even approximate his character. I could've written him better, and I'm just some random jackass

It's almost as if Moffat might not be as good of a writer/showrunner as people have made him out to be :thunk:

# ? Aug 26, 2019 14:57

2house2fly: Nov 14, 2012; You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

It's also possible he didn't specifically set out to emulate the character of the First Doctor exactly; Moffat has always written in what I guess could be called a "Doylist" way, where he assumes certain knowledge/expectations on the part of the audience. See the introduction of Mycroft in the first episode of Sherlock, a bait and switch which assumes you're familiar enough with Holmes Lore to know about Moriarty

# ? Aug 26, 2019 15:23

Vinylshadow: Mar 20, 2017

Watched The Five Doctors

Felt like four separate Doctor Who stories, what with One & Susan reliving The Daleks, Two & the Brig facing a Yeti, Three being paranoid, Four stuck in a bar, and Five stands around with the Time Lords for a bit and shirks responsibility

Really could've used more interactions between Five and the rest

https://twitter.com/StarBoyBlue2/status/1165962140286672896

# ? Aug 26, 2019 17:20

Davros1: Jul 19, 2007; You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Besides, Troughton was the one who kept sending Polly off to make the tea.

Poor Polly.

# ? Aug 26, 2019 18:17

Vinylshadow: Mar 20, 2017

Tegen not having any of One's sexism was great

A bit cringe-inducing

But great

# ? Aug 26, 2019 19:00

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Davros1 posted:

Besides, Troughton was the one who kept sending Polly off to make the tea.

Poor Polly.

She knows what she did

# ? Aug 26, 2019 19:02

docbeard: Jul 19, 2011

Whatever else you can say about Richard Hurndall in The Five Doctors, "What are you young people doing in my TARDIS?!?" remains one of the greatest moments of Doctor Who.

# ? Aug 26, 2019 19:33

docbeard: Jul 19, 2011

Chokes McGee posted:

The one moment that always struck me as summing up Hartnell's Doctor was a scene where he goes from to in the span of like a second and both are so incredibly emotive and flow into each other. Yeah, he got all yelly and shouty at times, but people forget his YOU CAN'T CHANGE HISTORY NOT ONE LINE outburst was followed by a soothing "oh, come now, dear, there's nothing to be done about it now"

The thing I love so much about that outburst from The Aztecs is that it later becomes clear that he wasn't telling Barbara she wasn't allowed to change history, he was telling her it was impossible and trying to spare her the inevitable heartbreak she'd experience by trying.

# ? Aug 26, 2019 19:35

Chokes McGee: Aug 7, 2008; This is Urotsuki.

The funny part is twelve easily set a bar for shouting not seen since Six and yet One is the cranky grump

# ? Aug 26, 2019 20:17

Davros1: Jul 19, 2007; You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Chokes McGee posted:

The funny part is twelve easily set a bar for shouting not seen since Six and yet One is the cranky grump

I honestly think most of One's reputation as a "grump" comes from the majority of the photos published of him. We have tons of the other Doctors grinning like mad, but very few on One, which contributes to his image as the "serious" one.

# ? Aug 26, 2019 21:11

Senor Tron: May 26, 2006

I wouldn't underestimate the black and white effect.

# ? Aug 27, 2019 00:46

Action Jacktion: Jun 3, 2003

Chokes McGee posted:

The one moment that always struck me as summing up Hartnell's Doctor was a scene where he goes from to in the span of like a second and both are so incredibly emotive and flow into each other. Yeah, he got all yelly and shouty at times, but people forget his YOU CAN'T CHANGE HISTORY NOT ONE LINE outburst was followed by a soothing "oh, come now, dear, there's nothing to be done about it now"

Don't forget he'd constantly break down giggling.

Action Jacktion fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Aug 27, 2019

# ? Aug 27, 2019 01:33

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Yeah it is a shame that people who haven't watched Hartnell (the fools!) would probably take the many photos of him looking stern and take that as a given, when his Doctor was (particularly as time went on) very giggly and cheeky and was just having a blast until somebody pissed him off and he shouted at them for a bit

# ? Aug 27, 2019 02:58

Chokes McGee: Aug 7, 2008; This is Urotsuki.

Davros1 posted:

I honestly think most of One's reputation as a "grump" comes from the majority of the photos published of him. We have tons of the other Doctors grinning like mad, but very few on One, which contributes to his image as the "serious" one.

pretend I posted the gif of One suppressing a laugh and waving his hand like "nah I'm done" here

# ? Aug 27, 2019 16:26

Vinylshadow: Mar 20, 2017

Truly, a dire, dour Doctor

# ? Aug 27, 2019 18:01

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPlI1WpAwpU

Hoo hoo! Ha haa!

# ? Aug 27, 2019 21:12

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

I�m blitzing through some Big Finish stuff to get up to speed on where the Benny Summerfield stories are, and I�ve listened to the two fstandalone Unbound Warner Doctor stories. Sympathy for the Devil is really good but Masters of War didn�t need to be that long at all.

# ? Aug 27, 2019 21:46

docbeard: Jul 19, 2011

The_Doctor posted:

I�m blitzing through some Big Finish stuff to get up to speed on where the Benny Summerfield stories are, and I�ve listened to the two fstandalone Unbound Warner Doctor stories. Sympathy for the Devil is really good but Masters of War didn�t need to be that long at all.

I've only ever heard Sympathy, but I would listen to David Warner read several consecutive phone books so I think the rest are only a matter of time.

# ? Aug 28, 2019 02:23

elf help book: Aug 5, 2004; Though the battle might be endless, I will never give up

When I think of the 1st Doctor, I always think of him in The Romans, having way too much fun playing around in the era.

# ? Aug 28, 2019 02:44

Narsham: Jun 5, 2008

Trin Tragula posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPlI1WpAwpU

Hoo hoo! Ha haa!

Dalek Masterplan turns out to include five episodes of One chortling for 20 minutes.

# ? Aug 28, 2019 03:09

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

elf help book posted:

When I think of the 1st Doctor, I always think of him in The Romans, having way too much fun playing around in the era.

Dude shows up to murder him in his bed and he just has the best loving time clowning on the guy, it owns.

# ? Aug 28, 2019 03:31

elf help book: Aug 5, 2004; Though the battle might be endless, I will never give up

Jerusalem posted:

Dude shows up to murder him in his bed and he just has the best loving time clowning on the guy, it owns.

It's so good!

# ? Aug 28, 2019 03:41

Edward Mass: Sep 14, 2011; 𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen𝅘𝅥𝅮

I had a dream that there was going to be a bank holiday special episode of Doctor Who airing in October. Sadly, there is no bank holiday in October.

# ? Aug 28, 2019 07:19

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Edward Mass posted:

I had a dream that there was going to be a bank holiday special episode of Doctor Who airing in October. Sadly, there is no bank holiday in October.

#makehalloweenapublicholiday

# ? Aug 28, 2019 08:47

CobiWann: Oct 21, 2009; Have fun!

Edward Mass posted:

I had a dream that there was going to be a bank holiday special episode of Doctor Who airing in October. Sadly, there is no bank holiday in October.

Well when the banks close because of a no-deal Brexit...

# ? Aug 28, 2019 11:46

marktheando: Nov 4, 2006

Edward Mass posted:

I had a dream that there was going to be a bank holiday special episode of Doctor Who airing in October. Sadly, there is no bank holiday in October.

Not yet but boris johnson is supposedly considering creating some more bank holidays in unpopulated parts of the UK so parliament has less time to stop no deal brexit.

Definitely still on track for that vision of future Britain in 'Turn Left'.

# ? Aug 29, 2019 19:40

Davros1: Jul 19, 2007; You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

https://twitter.com/FrenchGirl76/status/1167148162810884096?s=20

# ? Aug 30, 2019 01:04

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

"So Mr. Capaldi, did the BBC give you any trouble when you asked them to lend you one of their Dalek models?"
"One of their.....? :confused:

# ? Aug 30, 2019 06:13

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 17:44

LividLiquid: Apr 13, 2002

I never get tired of Doctor Actor is just The Doctor jokes.

# ? Aug 30, 2019 19:01

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > DOCTOR WHO IS CANCELLED. NO REFUNDS.

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