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Gatts posted:Yes but I should clarify look at what is happening in Kashmir now and during the elections that they stir poo poo up with Pakistan to drum support and are giving into the hardliners oh I certainly don't disagree that he's part of the global rise of fascist monsters, I'm just saying he was an early adopter and innovator his buddies were slaughtering Muslims in the state he governed in *2002*
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Aug 20, 2019 16:57
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So apparently twitter and facebook banned a ton of state backed anti-protest bots and disinformation accounts and the PRC is getting pissy?
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Aug 20, 2019 18:34
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Jeoh posted:here's some actual good left-wing analysis: https://newpol.org/localisms-contradictions-in-hong-kong/ I was going to say HK doesn't have any left, but the article mentioned it a couple times.
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Aug 20, 2019 18:56
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https://twitter.com/rayredacted/status/1163776715816153088?s=21 This is actually kind of neat, yeah.
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Aug 20, 2019 20:03
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2019 20:09
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tino posted:I was going to say HK doesn't have any left, but the article mentioned it a couple times. i lol'd pretty hard at the size of demosisto, i know trotskyist groups in hk larger than that
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Aug 20, 2019 21:03
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Time to change thread title to "Millions in HK gather to celebrate nation founding 70th anniversary"
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Aug 21, 2019 00:18
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Jeoh posted:here's some actual good left-wing analysis: https://newpol.org/localisms-contradictions-in-hong-kong/ It's a good article although I think trying to apply traditional anti globalisation politics to HK is going to be difficult, and makes the label "localist" a bit tricky - it's only localist in opposition to China. HK is a city where (most of) the population has benefited enormously from it's exposure to the rest of the world and a pro migrant worker, international socialist perspective might be more appropriate, even if the former might be an issue for many.
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Aug 21, 2019 06:53
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/rayredacted/status/1163776715816153088?s=21 Good on him. I wonder how many other companies were asked.
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Aug 21, 2019 07:03
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China Air is already the 2nd largest stockholder in Cathay Pacific. They are going to become first and do the dirty works themselves. The Chinese version of "A Lannister always pays his debt" is "tally up the books after autumn." If you don't think Beijing will do it you don't know the Chinese Communist Party.
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Aug 21, 2019 07:25
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/rayredacted/status/1163776715816153088?s=21 Good story, wish it was true, but absolutely didn’t happen.
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Aug 21, 2019 18:09
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https://twitter.com/Jordan_Sather_/status/1165327628825284610?s=09
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Aug 25, 2019 01:24
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I don't know where else to put this but Sidney Rittenberg has passed away. You may know him from the documentary The Revolutionary, which followed his life from WWII to joining the Chinese Communist Party to sixteen years of solitary confinement by the same. His memoirs are also a fun read. https://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/12/the-american-who-gave-his-life-to-chairman-mao/282647/
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Aug 25, 2019 02:14
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This fills me with joy
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Aug 25, 2019 09:36
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Kangxi posted:I don't know where else to put this but Sidney Rittenberg has passed away. You may know him from the documentary The Revolutionary, which followed his life from WWII to joining the Chinese Communist Party to sixteen years of solitary confinement by the same. His memoirs are also a fun read. I read his book The Man Who Stayed Behind a while ago, it was pretty good. The dude saw Some poo poo in his day, and was probably one of the last (if not THE last) foreigners still alive who was around with Mao during the Long March/pre-1949 days.
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Aug 25, 2019 09:48
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Somebody should tell them that those cameras aren't real and any assertion otherwise is just Black Mirror fanfic 
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Aug 26, 2019 19:28
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Kangxi posted:I don't know where else to put this but Sidney Rittenberg has passed away. You may know him from the documentary The Revolutionary, which followed his life from WWII to joining the Chinese Communist Party to sixteen years of solitary confinement by the same. His memoirs are also a fun read. I remember listening to a radio interview with him on the BBC World service, for a guy who had spent not one but two terms of solitary confinement he seem rather placid. Well except for when talking about Mao's wife.
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Aug 27, 2019 06:57
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Kangxi posted:I don't know where else to put this but Sidney Rittenberg has passed away. You may know him from the documentary The Revolutionary, which followed his life from WWII to joining the Chinese Communist Party to sixteen years of solitary confinement by the same. His memoirs are also a fun read.
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Aug 27, 2019 07:41
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Grouchio posted:Do you prefer him or Li Zhisui's The Private Life of Chairman Mao? They're interesting, but you have to take them, like all political memoirs, with a lot of skepticism. Rittenberg has access to the elites of Chinese politics and he has a lot of intriguing anecdotes. He tends to cast himself as more of a victim of the Cultural Revolution and not a partial accomplice. He doesn't mention the speeches he gave, nor his participating in the denunciation of people like Liu Shaoqi. Li Zhisui's book, if I remember correctly, was the first to come out in English about Mao's inner circle and private life. It has a lot of salacious stories about Mao's life. There's some information about more obscure figures in Mao's circle but you have to treat it very skeptically because the guy says he's trying to remember events from decades ago without notes. There are also problems with the translation but I don't know much about those as I haven't read the original. Philip Short or Alexander Pantsov wrote good biographies. Stay away from Jung Chang. She did not evaluate her primary sources at all.
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Aug 27, 2019 19:20
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Li's book is not particularly political. He restored Mao back to a normal, flawed person. It was a shock to older Chinese who worshipped him but it is not a big deal to rest of the readers who already know him a flawed leader.
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Aug 27, 2019 19:50
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They interviewed Sidney Rittenberg on the Sinica podcast two years ago. It was pretty interesting since he was around for it all from Yan'an to 1980. https://supchina.com/podcast/sidney-rittenberg/ https://supchina.com/podcast/sidney-rittenberg-solitary-confinement/
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Aug 27, 2019 20:04
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Here's another interview about the HK protests. Does anyone know who this "Steve Bannon" fellow is? He seems to really care about freedom and democracy https://twitter.com/GlobalHimalaya/status/1165517260749803526
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Aug 27, 2019 22:49
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Bob le Moche posted:Here's another interview about the HK protests. Does anyone know who this "Steve Bannon" fellow is? He seems to really care about freedom and democracy
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Aug 27, 2019 22:56
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You really never met a protest movement you didn’t want to grind into powder, huh?
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Aug 28, 2019 20:40
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Interviews like that give the game away - it’s a “color revolution” designed to provoke state repression that in turn can give ammo to a US administration in the middle of a trade war. In such a case HK might claw back some degree of economic relevance so definitely a confluence of interests.
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Aug 28, 2019 21:09
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Platforming a cult to stan for cops This is a seriously misguided bit of ultraleftism. As Che explained at length, genuine democracy - including, I would argue, police or prison abolition - is not possible for nations facing imperialism, as they’ll simply be immediately attacked by imperialists through terrorism, mass criminality, unrest, etc. This sort of criticism is without merit and is the provenance of leftists who are afraid to get their hands dirty or bad faith chauvinists. Of course many people are usually able to suss our false claims of “authoritarianism” or “totalitarianism” when discussing the historical USSR but become a lot more myopic when nonwhite countries are facing those kinds of criticisms today.
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Aug 28, 2019 21:18
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Yes the cops in Hong Kong are definitely guardians of the socialist economy... of Hong Kong. Hold on lemme check my chart Yeah it's right there at the top of the list published by our comrades over at The Heritage Foundation. The police in service of the people's democratic dictatorship sometimes need to use a heavy hand to ensure the capitalist roaders of imperialism don't steer the great red ship of Hong Kong astray.
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Aug 28, 2019 21:26
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it is simultaneously possible for a protest movement to be legitimate and pursuing good and legitimate goals, and for it to be supported by dickheads for their own ends the answer is not "heck yeah crush the counterrevolutionaries' skulls  "
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Aug 28, 2019 21:26
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:This is a seriously misguided bit of ultraleftism. As Che explained at length, genuine democracy - including, I would argue, police or prison abolition - is not possible for nations facing imperialism, as they’ll simply be immediately attacked by imperialists through terrorism, mass criminality, unrest, etc. This sort of criticism is without merit and is the provenance of leftists who are afraid to get their hands dirty or bad faith chauvinists. Of course many people are usually able to suss our false claims of “authoritarianism” or “totalitarianism” when discussing the historical USSR but become a lot more myopic when nonwhite countries are facing those kinds of criticisms today. Did you just literally say that nonwhite people in developing countries can't handle democracy? Gross, dude.
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Aug 28, 2019 21:26
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GreyjoyBastard posted:it is simultaneously possible for a protest movement to be legitimate and pursuing good and legitimate goals, and for it to be supported by dickheads for their own ends I mean do I have to bust out the list of megarich hypercapitalist oligarchical ghouls who oppose the protests? I mean you can start with Steve Bannon's buddy Donald Trump (on some days). Or you can start with the rent seeker conglomo buddies: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-15/tycoons-call-for-calm-after-hong-kong-protests-hit-fortunes
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Aug 28, 2019 21:31
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In what way is China seeking to impose its system of government on Hong Kong not "imperialism." Also "alleged Soviet tyranny?" The voluminous historical record would like a word.
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Aug 28, 2019 21:37
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Bloodnose posted:I mean do I have to bust out the list of megarich hypercapitalist oligarchical ghouls who oppose the protests? I mean you can start with Steve Bannon's buddy Donald Trump (on some days). Or you can start with the rent seeker conglomo buddies: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-15/tycoons-call-for-calm-after-hong-kong-protests-hit-fortunes They are officially opposing the protest but probably secretly funding the rioters "full gears" like all the land owning middle class egging on the young people from behind. Li Ka Sheng practically say it without say it out loud on full page ads.
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Aug 28, 2019 22:02
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therobit posted:Did you just literally say that nonwhite people in developing countries can't handle democracy? Gross, dude. Perfect example of bad faith liberals trying to weaponize a “radical” idea for reactionary purposes. People in the first world can’t handle of the third world and will destroy it using their superior resources every time. The same is also true within advanced capitalist societies of course, which is why even very early on people understood the necessity of dictatorial powers vested in any revolutionary body. “All Cops Are Bastards” is a great slogan for first world people but does not replace analysis or critical thinking. Plastic_Gargoyle posted:In what way is China seeking to impose its system of government on Hong Kong not "imperialism." Oh if any people are just anti-communist right wingers I don’t have any conversation or argument with you at the moment. I’m just here to yell at the anarchists. Anyway to answer your question just read Lenin
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Aug 28, 2019 22:04
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tino posted:They are officially opposing the protest but probably secretly funding the rioters "full gears" like all the land owning middle class egging on the young people from behind. Why would that be in their and in particular his interest at all?
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Aug 28, 2019 22:11
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Perfect example of bad faith liberals trying to weaponize a “radical” idea for reactionary purposes. People in the first world can’t handle of the third world and will destroy it using their superior resources every time. The same is also true within advanced capitalist societies of course, which is why even very early on people understood the necessity of dictatorial powers vested in any revolutionary body. “All Cops Are Bastards” is a great slogan for first world people but does not replace analysis or critical thinking. Oh, so you want the socialist revolution to wield absolute power over the whole nation. Like some sort of national socialism.
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Aug 28, 2019 22:21
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therobit posted:Did you just literally say that nonwhite people in developing countries can't handle democracy? Gross, dude. There is an old CCP talking point about how poorly educated peasants are not yet ready to establish a functional democracy, and with the recent developments with Trump and Brexit, the Western countries like the US or the UK are not inspiring much confidence in our wealthier, supposedly better informed citizens’ readiness for democracy either. For the record, I’m all for universal suffrage, rule of law, and an independent judiciary, but the idea that there are some people that genuinely believe how various people can’t “handle democracy” should not be surprising.
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Aug 28, 2019 22:22
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Snipee posted:There is an old CCP talking point about how poorly educated peasants are not yet ready to establish a functional democracy, and with the recent developments with Trump and Brexit, the Western countries like the US or the UK are not inspiring much confidence in our wealthier, supposedly better informed citizens’ readiness for democracy either. Yeah, it's the same argument the US used to depose Mossadegh in 53 and Allende in 54(?) and every other democratically elected government we've overthrown since WWII. It's still bullshit.
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Aug 28, 2019 22:26
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Perfect example of bad faith liberals trying to weaponize a “radical” idea for reactionary purposes. People in the first world can’t handle of the third world and will destroy it using their superior resources every time. The same is also true within advanced capitalist societies of course, which is why even very early on people understood the necessity of dictatorial powers vested in any revolutionary body. “All Cops Are Bastards” is a great slogan for first world people but does not replace analysis or critical thinking. Why would I bother reading Lenin when there are hundreds of examples of proper scholarship that can explain it better than some spoiled rich kid with the power to murder thousands ever could? In any case, you didn't answer my question. How is one nation trying to impose its will on another nation not imperialism? Plastic_Gargoyle fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 22:29
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What’s the statute of limitations China being able to be cunts to the entire world and then being able to have online defenders bring up poo poo white people did ages ago to them? Or is it less a time thing and more a crime thing? Like they get to commit three student massacres, five ethnic cleansing and two mass starvations and blame it on colonialism from Europe but after that YOU’RE ON YOUR OWN CHINA, YOU GET THE BLAME FOR THE NEXT ONE
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Aug 28, 2019 23:49
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Only when we finally get to have White History Month, teacupPlastic_Gargoyle posted:Why would I bother reading Lenin when there are hundreds of examples of proper scholarship that can explain it better than some spoiled rich kid with the power to murder thousands ever could? “Imperialism” is straightforwardly a Marxist-Leninist term of art to describe specific historical relations that came about basically during the modern era. Much like “capitalism”, if you reject Marxism as a matter of course then it’s senseless to speak of it and only useful to the degree that you can use it to trick people who don’t reject Marxism (by acting in bad faith). DOCTOR ZIMBARDO fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Aug 29, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 23:52
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