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Yep. Unused breakers are allowed to fill empty slots.
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Aug 30, 2019 19:39
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So I have a question. I have an electric dryer that randomly trips the breaker, maybe a few times a month. Doing a little digging, I believe this is setup wrong. This place was built in the early 1960s. Front of panel:  Insides:   Dryer outlet:  The 40a breaker in the bottom right drives the dryer outlet directly below the panel. Everything I am reading says this should be 30a, that correct? Replace that breaker with a 30a. The 50a breaker in the top right is for our electric oven/range. That has never been an issue. My feed from the electric company (comes straight through the block wall, right below the breakers), then ties in on the right side of the panel) doesn't have a main cut off. I'm guessing I have to follow this guy to find my main cut off, as there should be one between where my meter is and my panel, correct? Just trying to wrap my head around how this shithole is wired.
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Aug 31, 2019 03:31
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Moey posted:The 40a breaker in the bottom right drives the dryer outlet directly below the panel. Everything I am reading says this should be 30a, that correct? Replace that breaker with a 30a. Yeah, if the outlet is only rated for 30 amps you shouldn't have a breaker over 30 amps feeding it. Double check you dryer doesn't actually need more than 30 amps before replacing it though. Somebody may have swapped out the dryer cord and outlet in the past so don't rely on them to tell you the current draw of the dryer. Replacing the breaker may get rid of the nuisance tripping too if the old breaker was going bad. Moey posted:My feed from the electric company (comes straight through the block wall, right below the breakers), then ties in on the right side of the panel) doesn't have a main cut off. I'm guessing I have to follow this guy to find my main cut off, as there should be one between where my meter is and my panel, correct? Should be, yes, but I think it wasn't always a requirement in the past so possibly not.
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Aug 31, 2019 04:22
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Nevets posted:Yeah, if the outlet is only rated for 30 amps you shouldn't have a breaker over 30 amps feeding it. Double check you dryer doesn't actually need more than 30 amps before replacing it though. Somebody may have swapped out the dryer cord and outlet in the past so don't rely on them to tell you the current draw of the dryer. Replacing the breaker may get rid of the nuisance tripping too if the old breaker was going bad. Yeah, its a 10-30R receptacle for the dryer. I am hoping that replacing that older 40a breaker will solve the tripping issues (hopefully its just crappy due to its age) as well as bring it to code/make it safer. Here is a pic of what the dryer needs. The back specifically says 30a.  Looking at Lowe's, I believe this breaker is an exact replacement, minus 10 amps. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Square-D-Qo-30-Amp-2-Pole-Standard-Trip-Circuit-Breaker/3135067 Nevets posted:Should be, yes, but I think it wasn't always a requirement in the past so possibly not. Awesome, I'll check outside near the meter tomorrow for a disconnect that feeds my panel. It's a townhome block, but we are billed by unit for electric, so hopefully I can find mine without powering down random neighbors units. My town currently uses the 2014 National Electric Code, but god knows how many outdated things I have here that will be violations if they get touched. Thanks!
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Aug 31, 2019 04:53
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Moey posted:Here is a pic of what the dryer needs. The back specifically says 30a.
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Aug 31, 2019 10:34
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RabbitWizard posted:I'm confused because: 5400W / 120V = 45A try it with 208 or 240. its a two pole breaker. the difference between phases is a higher voltage than the difference between one phase and neutral because [insert electricity math here] Mimesweeper fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Aug 31, 2019 |
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Aug 31, 2019 11:14
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Moey posted:My feed from the electric company (comes straight through the block wall, right below the breakers), then ties in on the right side of the panel) doesn't have a main cut off. I'm guessing I have to follow this guy to find my main cut off, as there should be one between where my meter is and my panel, correct? And if there isn't one you can just pull the meter.
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Aug 31, 2019 12:40
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Mimesweeper posted:try it with 208 or 240. its a two pole breaker. 
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Aug 31, 2019 15:55
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Yeah, I've always been under the assumption that single pole breakers are 120v and double pole 240v. Unsure how this dryer would work on a 120v 30a outlet, that would only provide 3600w. It's a Samsung DV42H5200EF if anyone cares to explain.
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Aug 31, 2019 18:39
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Nevets posted:Should be, yes, but I think it wasn't always a requirement in the past so possibly not. It's still not a requirement in some places providing there are 6 or fewer "throws" to turn off power to the entire house.
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Aug 31, 2019 18:42
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Ferrule posted:And if there isn't one you can just pull the meter. *meaning, call your power company to come pull the meter for you. That's a task that absolutely requires arc flash PPE, nevermind the fees and liability for breaking their anti-tamper seal. The meter is both the power company's property and will kill the poo poo out of you, don't gently caress with it. shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Aug 31, 2019 |
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Aug 31, 2019 19:50
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Motronic posted:It's still not a requirement in some places providing there are 6 or fewer "throws" to turn off power to the entire house.  my garage panel I had crammed way above 6 not knowing this rule. Inspector had us install a main disconnect in the panel because the 100A one in the main panel wasn't in line of site or something which ironically brought the panel down to, you guessed it, 6 throws. (Excluding the main.)
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Aug 31, 2019 20:28
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shame on an IGA posted:*meaning, call your power company to come pull the meter for you. That's a task that absolutely requires arc flash PPE, nevermind the fees and liability for breaking their anti-tamper seal. You're absolutely correct. Also I've given up on advising against it, because it gets said so often in this thread that I tire of repeating myself. Most POCOs either have or are currently installing meters that will notify for loss of power within 5-20seconds. Depending on the situation (like this is the middle of the day not in a storm) personnel may be immediately dispatched. I've heard of tampering fees, as well as having power cut loose and requiring county inspection before reconnect. YMMV.
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Aug 31, 2019 22:33
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angryrobots posted:Most POCOs either have or are currently installing meters that will notify for loss of power within 5-20seconds. Depending on the situation (like this is the middle of the day not in a storm) personnel may be immediately dispatched. I've heard of tampering fees, as well as having power cut loose and requiring county inspection before reconnect. YMMV. Those same meters can also do remote service disconnects and there has been talk of some POCOs making this something they will support for maintenance work.
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Aug 31, 2019 22:37
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Problem with that is no visual disconnect and no LOTO support. I can tell you from personal experience that the meter based switches can fail in an unintended position. But yes if you had a remote service switch at your house and you called the POCO I work for requesting disconnect they can definitely switch it from the office. I wouldn't trust it to do work though. Edit: Motronic posted:Those same meters can also do remote service disconnects angryrobots fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Aug 31, 2019 |
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Aug 31, 2019 22:42
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angryrobots posted:Problem with that is no visual disconnect and no LOTO support. I can tell you from personal experience that the meter based switches can fail in an unintended position. It's a shame they didn't add a user-accessible disconnect option to the RSS ones. They could even put a LOTO hole in it which prevents re-energizing. I realize it all costs extra but when has that stopped someone like SCE from just sending the bill along to the rate payers?
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Aug 31, 2019 22:54
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That's a question that's above my pay grade. AFAIK that's not something the manufacturers of metering systems (realize that as a utility you're not just buying the meter, there's software and hardware to make the thing work that needs continued manufacturer support) have made available.
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Aug 31, 2019 23:36
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angryrobots posted:That's a question that's above my pay grade. AFAIK that's not something the manufacturers of metering systems (realize that as a utility you're not just buying the meter, there's software and hardware to make the thing work that needs continued manufacturer support) have made available. Nothing beyond the capability to require in a rfp. Would likely require regulatory action to actually see happen though.
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Aug 31, 2019 23:41
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angryrobots posted:Just as a clarification... Not necessarily. There are lots of different meter communication standards and I think all of them are available with or without remote service switch capability. The RSS is more expensive so I can let you guess how utilities treat a blanket roll-out Yeah, not every meter that can have it will. I've got a friend who used to work on the software/network hardware side (there are not that many standards, FYI - not when you look at it from the standpoint of volume of meters on the market) and remote disconnect was like their number one security concern because that's how you take down a grid (mass disconnects, mass reconnects).
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Aug 31, 2019 23:49
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I've got 3 cans lights that I just put new bulbs in because they were out, or so I thought. 1 new bulb (Gu5.3 Base) went in just fine, 1 other is super loose going into the holes for the pins but I can get it to light up by holding it at a weird angle, the final 1 is loose but I was able to get it to sit just right and stay on while I put it back in the hole. All that to say, how do I fix this problem? I'm not sure if I should replace where the pins go into (or even what that piece is called). Or possibly get some bigger pins or bend the pins I currently have? ideas sourced from a quick google search 
tangy yet delightful fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Aug 31, 2019 |
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Aug 31, 2019 23:52
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H110Hawk posted:Nothing beyond the capability to require in a rfp. Would likely require regulatory action to actually see happen though. It's also a pretty big liability for the manufacturer and the utility. Right now the meter compartment is a "No user serviceable parts inside" area and I dunno if there's any push to overcome that. Also understand that the utility works in tandem with the county permitting department. The "powers that be" may not want to make it that easy for non-permitted work to get done. Motronic posted:Yeah, not every meter that can have it will. I've got a friend who used to work on the software/network hardware side (there are not that many standards, FYI - not when you look at it from the standpoint of volume of meters on the market) I'm not an expert on metering communication, but there are at least 5 different systems still in use in my state. I have no idea what the overall market looks like. Anyhow my point was that no one can make assumptions about what features are available at a metering point unless you have knowledge about that utility. Lord knows I get plenty of questions from our consumers who have their own assumptions about what our meters are capable of. Edit2 - Reading it again, I think you're getting at the RSS being present but disabled. I'm sure that's the case for some utilities, but specifically I was meaning the RSS not being present at all because that feature is more expensive. In the new meter roll-out that I'm familiar with, account past billing history determined whether a given metering point got an RSS capable meter or not... angryrobots fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Aug 31, 2019 23:53
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angryrobots posted:I'm not an expert on metering communication, but there are at least 5 different systems still in use in my state. I have no idea what the overall market looks like. ... Does the lack of standardization increase or decrease the likelihood of a remote vulnerability? As a customer, should I be concerned that my smart meter is going to get a worm that would enable a bad actor to disable or destroy the power grid in my area?
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Sep 1, 2019 00:46
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tangy yet delightful posted:I've got 3 cans lights that I just put new bulbs in because they were out, or so I thought. 1 new bulb (Gu5.3 Base) went in just fine, 1 other is super loose going into the holes for the pins but I can get it to light up by holding it at a weird angle, the final 1 is loose but I was able to get it to sit just right and stay on while I put it back in the hole. You can replace the sockets easily enough. You don't really want the bulb pins arcing in the loose sockets and melting them, though it probably wouldn't burn your house down. Just be mindful that heat will destroy wire nuts and unshielded wire insulation in that can so you should plan to use a socket with long enough leads to run the wire all the way back to the base where the transformer/mains connection is, then use the sleeve to protect the wires from the heat.
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Sep 1, 2019 01:03
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Does the lack of standardization increase or decrease the likelihood of a remote vulnerability? Not my area of expertise. I do know that system vulnerability is a primary concern when designing and implementing these systems. The nerds that manage it tell us it's secure. I would imagine that lack of standardization is a good thing overall? I don't know if the meters even have enough computing power or memory storage to get a worm like a PC can. "Smart meter" is really a misnomer. They have better communication and built in sensors - nothing like the capability of a smart phone. I can say that given the communication delay inherent, disabling the "grid" via individual meter switches seems unlikely. Furthermore, network connected isolation switches on the actual power line would be far more useful for a bad actor and those have been in use for I dunno over 20 years for whatever that's worth? And even if some person did access that system, it could all be put back in service by POCO employees in pickup trucks so it's overall not something I would worry a whole lot about?
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Sep 1, 2019 02:13
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angryrobots posted:I can say that given the communication delay inherent, disabling the "grid" via individual meter switches seems unlikely. Furthermore, network connected isolation switches on the actual power line would be far more useful for a bad actor and those have been in use for I dunno over 20 years for whatever that's worth? And even if some person did access that system, it could all be put back in service by POCO employees in pickup trucks so it's overall not something I would worry a whole lot about?
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Sep 1, 2019 02:19
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Well in that case [REDACTED BY HOMELAND SECURITY] (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 1, 2019 02:24
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glynnenstein posted:You can replace the sockets easily enough. You don't really want the bulb pins arcing in the loose sockets and melting them, though it probably wouldn't burn your house down. Is this the correct thing? Would you recommend a different brand/product? Appreciate the help!
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Sep 1, 2019 02:28
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Does the lack of standardization increase or decrease the likelihood of a remote vulnerability? Far far higher. All it likely takes is someone with a SDR ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software-defined_radio ) and time. Nominally security is best when it has a huge bright light shone on it all day long. It's why encryption algorithms are public knowledge, for example, and the golden rule is "don't roll your own." There are cheap and easy methods of authenticating commands, and whatever little SOC they run inside the smart meter could use it. Do they? I seriously doubt it. Crashing the grid is likely one state-sponsored attacker deciding they really want the US Military to come hang out away from happening.
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Sep 1, 2019 06:11
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tangy yet delightful posted:Is this the correct thing? Would you recommend a different brand/product? Looks like the right idea, but the leads are probably short. Look specifically for long or extended lead wires. I call my electrical supply house guy and just ask for "MR16 bulb sockets with really long wires like I ordered back in 2012" and I get the right thing, which probably doesn't help you as much.
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Sep 2, 2019 03:29
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Motronic posted:Those same meters can also do remote service disconnects and there has been talk of some POCOs making this something they will support for maintenance work. Deregulated areas with multiple retail providers make heavy use of this - particularly the ones that target those with poor credit. They shut you off around 5pm on the day the bill is due if you haven't paid it yet. There's also a thing called prepaid power in deregulated areas now. As soon as you go over what you're paid.. *click* hello darkness my old friend plus a reconnect fee plus a pay by phone fee plus all these other bullshit fees to get it turned back on, all because you didn't top off the account before it hit zero. The same applies to the poor credit type REPs.
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Sep 2, 2019 20:34
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STR posted:There's also a thing called prepaid power in deregulated areas now. As soon as you go over what you're paid.. *click* hello darkness my old friend plus a reconnect fee plus a pay by phone fee plus all these other bullshit fees to get it turned back on, all because you didn't top off the account before it hit zero. The same applies to the poor credit type REPs. This isn't particularly new though, I guess maybe it is in your location. Prepay meters have been around in the UK for decades, first coin operated, then with cards topped up like a prepay phone, presumably now with online stuff. Any "use it now pay it later" service is de facto a line of credit, so people with toilet credit ratings have to prepay.
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Sep 2, 2019 20:41
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Thanks to everyone who chimed in on my breaker fun. Swapped the old 40a breaker out with a new 30a one. Hasn't tripped yet. I did have a main disconnect out near our block of meters for our town house. Oddly enough it was only a 60a breaker in there. I am learning to love the joys of buying a place built in the early 60s.
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Sep 2, 2019 20:49
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Took advantage of the long weekend to clear out the sub-panel wire as well as add a couple more outlets in the basement. The telecom rack will get installed right next to the new outlet on the wall.   
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Sep 2, 2019 23:07
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STR posted:Deregulated areas with multiple retail providers make heavy use of this - particularly the ones that target those with poor credit. They shut you off around 5pm on the day the bill is due if you haven't paid it yet. Ugh - that's hosed up. I'll say that not everyone handles it this way.
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Sep 2, 2019 23:51
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Oh I know - I've lived in deregulated areas, and was mostly happy with my REPs. You had to really read the fine print; I wound up in a plan where I paid something like 4c/kwh if I stayed between 1000-1499 kwh, 8c 500-999, 18c 0-499, 22c if I broke 1499. That's for the entire usage - it wasn't tiered. There was one night where I saw I had used 1499 on the nose, about 30 minutes before midnight, and I knew the meter read would happen at midnight. I threw the main breaker immediately and didn't turn it back on until about 12:30am. Official meter read was 1499.
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Sep 5, 2019 17:45
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How much is too much stuff to have on a single outlet/power strip? I only have the one shore power plug in my camper van so anything ever that runs off 110v is going through a single extension cord. Until now it's just been phone/camera/laptop charging which is relatively low wattage, but I threw in my mini fridge this trip which is probably a whole different weight class as far as power consumption.
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Sep 5, 2019 22:46
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Javid posted:How much is too much stuff to have on a single outlet/power strip? I only have the one shore power plug in my camper van so anything ever that runs off 110v is going through a single extension cord. Until now it's just been phone/camera/laptop charging which is relatively low wattage, but I threw in my mini fridge this trip which is probably a whole different weight class as far as power consumption. Read the rating on the strip. 15A is probably fine. 20 is pushing it, >20 is a hard no.
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Sep 6, 2019 21:19
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How do I wire my bedroom light switch? Yesterday I successfully replaced my dining room light switch to a smart switch. This evening I ran out to the store and grabbed a second one. But when I took my switch off, I came across a mess I think? The inside of my switch was wrapped in electrical tape. When I took it off, I found out why.   That wire on the left was taped to the switch, I assume to the terminal without a wire Furthermore, the other wire was attached to two other black wires in a wire nut. So now I don't know what to do. Can I just strip the torn wire (which looks like it's red instead of black?) and use that? What do I do about the other two black wires?
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Sep 7, 2019 05:10
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:How do I wire my bedroom light switch? That sure looks like exposed copper touching the metal box at the back there. If that insulation is that far gone, you're going to need to run a new wire down the wall. That looks incredibly unsafe, like burn-your-house-down unsafe. Do you know if the wire(s) on the left is the power coming in, or the power going out?
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Sep 7, 2019 15:21
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SpartanIvy posted:That sure looks like exposed copper touching the metal box at the back there. If that insulation is that far gone, you're going to need to run a new wire down the wall. That looks incredibly unsafe, like burn-your-house-down unsafe. I don't know. I ended up stripping the left wire and pigtailing everything.  Should I cut power and have someone else check it out?
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Sep 7, 2019 15:28
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