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Mmmn, I love Diego just showing up at the finish line and looking super calm but Gyro and Johnny (and the audience) know what he's doing and that it's actually a challenge to the two of them, the fact that he's not retiring from the race after all that.
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Sep 3, 2019 03:10
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There's a lot more to the dynamics between Gyro, Johnny, and Diego than I remembered. Is there really that much of a difference between Johnny's dark determination and Diego's hunger? They're close enough that Johnny can understand Diego pretty well.
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Sep 3, 2019 03:24
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I think that might be up to interpretation on purpose but, from my reading of it, Johnny having standards and not going to the president to help collect the parts while Diego goes to him for help paints a stark contrast. Of course, they have different goals. Diego's in it for the money and doesn't really care about the corpse while Johnny is searching for identity, or to feel whole again. His goal might seem selfish on first blush but it's more spiritually inclined, so I think he does have a leg to stand on, kind of, but it's also left vague for a little while what his relationship is to Diego, and if the rumors about Diego cheating to get ahead at horse racing are actually true.
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Sep 3, 2019 03:50
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BaDandy posted:so I think he does have a leg to stand on I don't know about that.
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Sep 3, 2019 14:44
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"Give me the island of Manhattan" is some good loving jojo right there. Valentine is so furious with him too, its great. I'm not convinced that the way Sandman uses his Stand here is 100 %consistent with how it was presented earlier in the story, but that's a minor quibble.
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Sep 3, 2019 15:27
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EDIT: Yeah, let's hold off until I can talk about this without spoilers
dancingbears fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 15:49
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None of that is stuff you should be talking about right now among new readers.
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Sep 3, 2019 15:50
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Sam Faust posted:I don't know about that.  Also it's interesting how Valentine is such an obvious unlikeable villain sleazeball in these earlier parts. It's really weird how no one in the general fandom seems to remember these bits, or they characterize Johnny as an uwu crying widdle baby when, so far, I only remember seeing him really crying twice. 1) Waking up paralyzed (I'd be crying too! wtf) 2) "I don't want to give up the arm....I could move again...." The only other times he's really distressed is when Gyro looks like he's to die, which happens distressingly often. I've forgotten how Johnny is the more pragmatic, down-to-earth one while Gyro has the Joseph/Giorno tendency of doing ridiculous poo poo because he calculated far enough ahead to take a reasonable enough risk.
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Sep 3, 2019 16:11
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Also holy poo poo, I literally just realized that Gyro making Johnny say "I can't do it" four times before he sees the rectangle might have been a parallel of the Denial of Peter considering the corpse at the center of things.
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Sep 3, 2019 16:16
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 at that, I'd believe itBaDandy posted:
I don't agree with this, I love Johnny being a more realistic, younger, darker, and reticent hero. (Johnny is also hilarious actually, I love him spinning his nails to brush his teeth, or that dumb full smile he has a while ago), but some people see Gyro as more of the leader and I see that as intentional, or at least what Araki wants you to think at the start. Gyro is the one fighting for a noble cause with an ancient important bloodline on the line. Johnny however, just wants "to return to zero". He was self centered before his accident, and his motivation is inherently selfish now. The only person who benefits from Johnny getting what he wants is Johnny. And Johnny deeply clings to that, he doesn't want to give up the arm, he's ready to kill if he has to, and I think that leads to people to say Johnny is the "weaker" one, ignoring the entire mentor/mentee, best buddies story. Those interpretations also ignore all the times that Gyro learns from Johnny or looks to him for strength. Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 16:35
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i've said it before but anyone who says johnny and gyro are anything but equally co-protagonists is really unobservant and shouldn't be trusted in regards to anything else they say on the subject
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Sep 3, 2019 16:39
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There really is a tendency in western (especially U.S.) audiences to view the outgoing, loud and funny character as the real protagonist when that's not really true, yeah. And Johnny's goals might be selfish by definition, but that's not necessarily a bad thing either, not that you're saying it is. Both Johnny and Gyro have these identities thrust upon them against their will by their families and deal with it differently, trying to find new ones. Gyro in America acts like a college student heading to Cancun for the first time. He's free! He's liberated! Maybe he'll get a grill or something. Who knows? In America, anything is possible, including defying the traditions of a kingdom that's been around for over a thousand years. The man's 25 and this is the first time he's been away from his family. But he's also here because of it, and he's here because this duty was thrust upon him. The audience doesn't know about his past at first because Gyro doesn't want people to know it, because he can't just be Gyro if you know who his family is, or why he's even here. Johnny, meanwhile, had the same thing regarding a kind of family legacy, but now it's gone. There is nothing to gain for his family if he wins this race, or even gets the corpse parts. He's been free from day one and has nothing left to lose. But racing was the only thing he's ever known. He built his entire identity around it, and now there's nothing for him to lean on. He can do whatever he wants, but he wants to go back to racing because, to him, it was the only thing he was really good at. "Going back to 0" is selfish, but it's a relatable selfishness that you can't really be mad about. Interesting then, when given the idea of Lucy helping them get another corpse part and putting her in danger, it isn't Johnny's idea and he's very much against it. Johnny Joestar posted:i've said it before but anyone who says johnny and gyro are anything but equally co-protagonists is really unobservant and shouldn't be trusted in regards to anything else they say on the subject 
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Sep 3, 2019 17:07
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Yeah Johnny's goal to return to zero isn't inherently negative. Johnny feels trapped and suffocated in the life he both did and did not create for himself, he wants a fresh start, a common human dream. And from there he wants to be better. The only way you can get into the positive is get out of the negative. To get to zero.
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Sep 3, 2019 17:19
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It’s definitely easy to read johnny/gyro as Giorno/Bruno where one is really the true protagonist, but they’re definitely real equal in terms of their importance to the story, just that obviously Gyro is more bombastic and easier to latch on to That said, Gyro loving owns he’s the best I love my beautiful Italian boy
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Sep 3, 2019 17:39
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Gyro feels more like a protagonist because he fits the Hero's Journey a lot closer. He has been given a "destiny", and is on a quest to realise it, grow as a person, and return home with newfound wisdom. Not that Johnny isn't also growing as a result of this; but it's a lot more obvious for Gyro. Especially given their goals, with Gyro overcoming family tradition, rebelling against his father's obsession with the family legacy, and, ultimately, doing everything to save someone else, even if for a selfish reason. Johnny is instead seeking a return to an earlier status quo, and as others have said, is a purely selfish desire. (oh, also, Gyro appears first in the opening chapters) Whether you read one of them as the protagonist, or as equal co-protagonists, you can make arguments for any of them. It depends on how you read it. On the first read, I definitely felt Gyro as being more of the protagonist, but now I'm feeling like there's a lot more to Johnny than I originally gave credit for. He's... a lot more subtle.
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Sep 3, 2019 18:12
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Also can we please take a moment to appreciate the stupid brilliance of "you idiots thought my name is Sandman but actually it's Soundman"
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Sep 3, 2019 18:13
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Sep 3, 2019 19:00
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YF-23 posted:Also can we please take a moment to appreciate the stupid brilliance of "you idiots thought my name is Sandman but actually it's Soundman" I almost wrote Soundman a bunch of times when people were talking about his running style back in the first batch of chapters. I think I even just erased a post and didnt rewrite it at one point because Im careless and definately would have spoiled something lol
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Sep 3, 2019 20:51
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The In A Silent Way fight is the first JoJo's battle that I've read first and immediately wanted to see animated; while there's definitely a dynamic aspect of Araki's art, seeing the woosh turn into words that can then be manipulated/climbed on/etc., in addition to the first usage of the Golden Spin to fire what essentially look like nail *lasers* should be something uniquely special.
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Sep 3, 2019 21:14
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YF-23 posted:Also can we please take a moment to appreciate the stupid brilliance of "you idiots thought my name is Sandman but actually it's Soundman" Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 22:33
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It's just being translated by the ignorant white man for our convenience of course.
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Sep 3, 2019 22:34
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I really don't think Araki "forgot" what a character's name was, but just thought it would be a cool twist to have his name actually be Soundman and didn't care at all that he had established precedent earlier. Also Sandman is.....a bad name..... The "sand in the eyes" thing Soundman does at the very start doesn't make sense either, but it's clearly a placeholder thing Araki had set up so an audience knew that "yes, there are def still magic power ghosts in this universe" because remember, this wasn't called JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Part 7 - Steel Ball Run at the very start.
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Sep 3, 2019 23:06
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD-E-LDc384
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Sep 3, 2019 23:09
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sand in your eyes can be a sound effect
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Sep 3, 2019 23:10
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 Lucy sure does come up with some bold plans, huh?
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Sep 4, 2019 00:22
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Hemingway To Go! posted:sand in your eyes can be a sound effect "sh-sh-sha!"
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Sep 4, 2019 00:27
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Zerilan posted:"sh-sh-sha!" "My name is not 'Sandman'. That is what your people call me. Among my tribe, I am known as 'Rusty Shackleford'."
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Sep 4, 2019 01:15
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If you took Johnny's dialogue about how the President is sending his terrorists to attack him so they can collect and assemble to corpse parts of [redacted], and put it with Dale Gribble, nothing would change.
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Sep 4, 2019 01:22
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Sep 4, 2019 01:51
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Also "In a silent way" keeps up with the character design theme of "flower on a chest-piece" this jojo have (alongside Hot pants and dr. Ferdinand).
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Sep 4, 2019 05:26
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 Ahh I missed that it flashed to Nicholas for a bit there. 
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Sep 5, 2019 05:06
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That's pretty amazing. Gyro and Johnny just have so many stories. I don't think any other chapter has characters who have been through so much before the series even starts. E: maybe the villain of part 6 actually... Hemingway To Go! fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 05:14
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I love that Johnny resorts to panicked screaming in dangerous moments, but really only when that danger involves Gyro, not so much himself
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Sep 5, 2019 05:37
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Also, for some reason, I thought "God took the wrong son" was gonna show up later and I wasn't ready. I know the real answer is "Araki didn't think of it at the time" but it's so easy to read that at the beginning, Johnny tells you his backstory really quick, and then later on when he's getting more into the story, he actually reveals that, not only do he and Diego have a prior history, but he had an older brother. And not only did he have an older brother, but he is convinced that he is responsible for his death and he totally deserved to get shot in the spine. And then he met Gyro, who would be about the same age as Nicholas if he were still alive, is just as forward and confident as Nicholas was, and who Johnny is putting all of his hero-worship feelings onto this time. drat.
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Sep 5, 2019 06:12
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga2_mSX6YXc
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Sep 5, 2019 06:53
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so... are we meant to infer that it’s possible Dio was really responsible for the mouse and Johnny is wrongly blaming himself, given the Phantom Blood parallels and Johnny already stating Dio would stoop to base methods to win? That said, it feels like that’s not as impactful if it really was Johnny’s Danny that startled the horse and Dio was an innocent bystander.
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Sep 5, 2019 10:44
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Not only do I believe Dio did that, he probably did a dozen other subtle things to murderize Nicholas.
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Sep 5, 2019 16:22
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Nah. Diego had no reason to kill Nicholas, he just happened to be around at the time.
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Sep 5, 2019 16:31
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Diego was the same age as Johnny, he wasn't competing so he wouldn't have any reason to try to sabotage Nicholas.
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Sep 5, 2019 16:48
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 17:16 |
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Nicholas ate poo poo and fell off his horse.
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Sep 5, 2019 16:56
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