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Edgar Allen Ho posted:It Came From the Paradox Interactive Forums: I'm working on a tabletop RPG campaign set in 1423 Europe. Picked the date at random so I started looking up what the world was like at the time. King Henry V got promised the crown of France during their war in the hopes of creating peace, then both he and the French king died at the same time. The Dauphin Charles VII calls bullshit and runs away to declare himself the rightful king and continues the war to decide who gets to keep France. This was one of the simpler questions of succession between medieval England and France.
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Sep 5, 2019 14:50
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HEY GUNS posted:they run out of supplies and they goddamn die he gets them hooked on pasta and their supply trains die due to sudden doubling of water requirements
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Sep 5, 2019 15:50
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Platystemon posted:He said “tactics”, not “strategy”. 
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Sep 5, 2019 16:46
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Sep 5, 2019 17:52
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Tias posted:he gets them hooked on pasta and their supply trains die due to sudden doubling of water requirements I see you, too, have played Campaign for North Africa.
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Sep 5, 2019 18:02
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Ynglaur posted:I see you, too, have played Campaign for North Africa. I’m seriously considering finding an artist to draw military Mario dying in the desert clutching a handful of dry spaghetti while Mussolini-Luigi looks on from the sky with “That’s how it be in beach of an earth”.
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Sep 5, 2019 18:12
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I don't get it.
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Sep 5, 2019 18:25
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There was an old board game called Campaign for North Africa. It was one of those games with a map overlaid with hexagons and little square cardboard pieces representing military units. It was a war game simulating the North Africa campaign during WW2. It was notorious for being the most complex game ever produced in that genre. It had a rule covering the impact on the water supply of Italian units based on whether or not they received their pasta ration.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:30
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(dry pasta was in fact not issued in the desert)
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Sep 5, 2019 19:51
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Though the Italians were using horse-drawn logistics in the desert, which is a terribly rough scene for the poor animals.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:59
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The pasta ration came canned in sauce. You can just heat it up. (Lol at americans who believe that myth. Where I grew up we were heating up chef boyardee and spaghetti-os on desert and mountain nights by age 8, southwest rep)
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Sep 5, 2019 20:32
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I know Classical India is light on primary sources for such topics, but is there any real information on how the Yaudheya Gana functioned?
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Sep 5, 2019 20:36
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If the pasta came with sauce, it should still affect the water requirements but in the other direction.
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Sep 5, 2019 20:37
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Platystemon posted:If the pasta came with sauce, it should still affect the water requirements but in the other direction. What if it was over salted and gave you the runs
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Sep 5, 2019 20:41
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LingcodKilla posted:I’m seriously considering finding an artist to draw military Mario dying in the desert clutching a handful of dry spaghetti while Mussolini-Luigi looks on from the sky with “That’s how it be in beach of an earth”. I think Tias was saying they don’t get this, not the pasta in the desert, considering they made the reference to it in the first place. I also do not get it.
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Sep 5, 2019 21:02
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Pontius Pilate posted:I think Tias was saying they don’t get this, not the pasta in the desert, considering they made the reference to it in the first place. I also do not get it. Thus Mario is more clearly associated with Italian-American identity in the American media sphere.
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Sep 5, 2019 21:11
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Mamma Mia
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Sep 5, 2019 21:33
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We in archaeology without written documents land really need to stop giving culturally loaded names to things. I just worked on an Ancestral Pueblo "shrine", called a "shrine" because it is a structure, not a Great House or Great Kiva and it is associated with a road alignment. It had 2m high walls, no entrances, was disassembled at some point, and had a grand total of 20 artifacts or so, all little ceramic sherds and lithic flakes. Honestly I don't see why we'd call it a shrine and not just use "herradura", "zambullida", or "avanzada" even though those are also loaded terms. Descendants also don't really have a full understanding of what these things were used for, and these Chaco era structures differ from later shrines. We just gotta dig more, only two of these things have been excavated.
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Sep 5, 2019 22:13
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KiteAuraan posted:We in archaeology without written documents land really need to stop giving culturally loaded names to things. I just worked on an Ancestral Pueblo "shrine", called a "shrine" because it is a structure, not a Great House or Great Kiva and it is associated with a road alignment. could have just as easily been a hot dog stand
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Sep 5, 2019 22:26
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KiteAuraan posted:We in archaeology without written documents land really need to stop giving culturally loaded names to things. I just worked on an Ancestral Pueblo "shrine", called a "shrine" because it is a structure, not a Great House or Great Kiva and it is associated with a road alignment. What are the politics here? Is the local descendant community invested in it being a shrine, view it as an important relic of their ancestors, etc? I can just see some unfortunate pushback from the community if you're trying to explain that the thing they've been telling their kids for generations was a sacred ancestral shrine is really a grain silo or something.
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Sep 5, 2019 22:33
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Curious too since I don't know much about the subject. Is it a "ritual purposes" deal that now you know is wrong? Is shrine just a loaded term but it's a religious site? I can see the logic of using a more familiar word even if it's not quite accurate in public-facing media. Unless it's just wildly inaccurate. Of course I also grind my teeth every time I see the word Byzantine, so. 
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Sep 5, 2019 22:40
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What do you guys think is going to happen after the upcoming civilizational collapse in the next 300 years?
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Sep 5, 2019 22:50
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What’s a good source on medieval English currency and its use in peasant life
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Sep 5, 2019 23:02
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Cyrano4747 posted:What are the politics here? Is the local descendant community invested in it being a shrine, view it as an important relic of their ancestors, etc? I can just see some unfortunate pushback from the community if you're trying to explain that the thing they've been telling their kids for generations was a sacred ancestral shrine is really a grain silo or something. The best I can find is that like most Ancestral Pueblo structures, it is viewed as a sacred stopping point of the ancestors on their migrations to the Center Place, but that the exact use isn't really discussed. The way Pueblo peoples view their ancestors and their relationship with them means all aspects of a settlement or stopping place is sacred. Trash middens, fields, storage rooms, kivas, burials, all viewed as sacred. Their is a belief the ancestor's spirits still live there and are active and preserving these places until the soil reclaims them is important. The designation as shrines came from archaeologists in the 1960s, who were looking at them through a global perspective and applying what they thought the use was based on cross-cultural comparisons. There are issues with this, especially that they do not resemble any ethnographic or known archaeological shrine in the region. Grand Fromage posted:Curious too since I don't know much about the subject. Is it a "ritual purposes" deal that now you know is wrong? Is shrine just a loaded term but it's a religious site? I can see the logic of using a more familiar word even if it's not quite accurate in public-facing media. Unless it's just wildly inaccurate. Sort of the former. They are associated with Chaco roads, which usually lead to Great Houses or Great Kivas over short distances and aren't really "roads" in the sense of say, Roman road networks. The North and South Roads are the longest, and even they seem to be sacred paths that travel 55km to end at unique topographic features to the north and south Chaco Canyon. So they seem to have some special use. The one I worked at sits on a road like that, a very short one that runs between the south ridge of this village, across to the north hill Great Kiva. But we have no idea what the actual use was, heck, the other excavated example is at a minimum 100 years later than ours, a completely different shape, and it had a whole ceramic vessel, turquoise offerings and a stone bowl in a vault with more turquoise. We can rule out granary just based on an absence of leftover anything food related. Even open-site storage rooms have some maize kernals or burnt stuff.
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Sep 6, 2019 00:14
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Grand Fromage posted:Of course I also grind my teeth every time I see the word Byzantine, so. Every time. It's not like there's some other Roman empire it needs to be distinguished from either, since everybody always uses Holy Roman Empire to talk about that other one.
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Sep 6, 2019 00:16
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Every time. It's not like there's some other Roman empire it needs to be distinguished from either, since everybody always uses Holy Roman Empire to talk about that other one.
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Sep 6, 2019 00:21
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Jazerus posted:could have just as easily been a hot dog stand Proof Pre-Contact Pueblo Indians had pigs! Grand Fromage posted:Curious too since I don't know much about the subject. Is it a "ritual purposes" deal that now you know is wrong? Is shrine just a loaded term but it's a religious site? I can see the logic of using a more familiar word even if it's not quite accurate in public-facing media. Unless it's just wildly inaccurate. True it should be referred to as the Empire of the Greeks.
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Sep 6, 2019 02:44
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KiteAuraan posted:We in archaeology without written documents land really need to stop giving culturally loaded names to things. I just worked on an Ancestral Pueblo "shrine", called a "shrine" because it is a structure, not a Great House or Great Kiva and it is associated with a road alignment. Please tell me all the lithic flakes were shatter. Edit: and that the ceramics were all non diag.
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Sep 6, 2019 03:12
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Arglebargle III posted:What do you guys think is going to happen after the upcoming civilizational collapse in the next 300 years? Futurism seems like the opposite of history, but after every great civilizational collapse there has been a slow recovery period and eventually the creation of new societies based on modern principles. The Bronze Age Collapse was followed by cultures that were flexible, less centralized, more diverse, and fundamentally better equipped at dealing with the ecological, technological, and economic changes that had devastated their forebearers. The same could be said for the societal collapses occuring after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, or the onset of the Black Death pandemic, or even to a lesser extent the conclusion of the World Wars. With all that in mind, I would focus my futuristic attentions on the systems at play that are being challenged. International governments are already grappling with climate change, and that will only become more challenging. And capitalist economies are beginning to choke as increasing automation erodes the value of labor. Finally the highly-interconnected nature of modern society is also proving to be a major vulnerability - allowing minor weak links to threaten global structures (whether we're talking about media propaganda, digital crimes, financial crashes, etc.) If these societal flaws ultimately lead to a major collapse, I would expect future successful societies to directly address them in some fashion. But accurately predicting the future that far out is impossible so I won't try to pretend I can.
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Sep 6, 2019 03:21
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Basically read Desert
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Sep 6, 2019 03:44
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Basically read Desert The zine? Haven't seen or heard it being mentioned anywhere for a long time.
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Sep 6, 2019 03:58
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Telsa Cola posted:Please tell me all the lithic flakes were shatter. Entirely non-diagnostic ceramics, just Pueblo II Indented Corrugated and Pueblo II White Unpainted, the flakes were actual flakes. Only dating of the structure is by everything around it, which actually have all yielded nicely diagnostic stuff. Lots of Mancos Corrugated rims and very temporally restricted variants of decorated stuff.
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Sep 6, 2019 04:11
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Basically read Desert It's a good read, but bleak.
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Sep 6, 2019 06:34
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It was a toll booth
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Sep 6, 2019 07:14
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Morholt posted:(dry pasta was in fact not issued in the desert) The genre of hyper-simulationist war games didn't let a pesky thing like accuracy (or playability) get in the way of a game that can grind to a halt because an individual jeep in your supply line popped a flat. https://kotaku.com/the-notorious-board-game-that-takes-1500-hours-to-compl-1818510912 quote:“Every military division has a sheet of paper, and on it you’ve got a box for every battalion. It’ll tell you how many guns you have, but more interestingly, it’ll also list the fuel and water. Every game turn, three percent of the fuel evaporates, unless you’re the British before a certain date, because they used 50-gallon drums instead of jerry cans. So instead, seven percent of their fuel evaporates,” explains Phipps. “Every loving turn you go around and make a pencil note of how much fuel you have. The pasta rule is funny, but this is what the game is about. Just doing tedious calculations all the time.” quote:The flight units are handled as individual planes and individual pilots, which is outstandingly fussy, even for wargame standards.) Campaign for North Africa was generally made as a joke/sendup of its own genre, which by that time had been going strong for many decades. But the most dedicated board gamers love to go down esoteric rabbit holes, attempting to play and mod anything they like the gist of into a workable game, even and especially if the base material is plainly awful. The more ambitious the job it would be, the better; the act of sharing a vision perfected among a group of contemporaries is what drives a lot of this. This is fun reading (the story of H.G. Wells modding a famously clunky war game from the 1800s, Kriegspiel): http://faculty.virginia.edu/setear/students/wargames/page1a.htm quote:Hobby gaming and professional gaming were largely inseparable during the early days of wargaming, but by 1913, the year when H.G. Wells (an ardent pacifist) published the rules for his game Little Wars, it was clear that two camps had developed. Little Wars was (and is) a combat game played with miniature figures. Wells spent the majority of his book detailing rules for combat, movement, and capture. After observing that all the military officers who had played his game found its simple rules too confusing to grasp, Wells remarked in his concluding paragraph:
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Sep 6, 2019 07:52
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The funny thing is that all this little fiddly bullshit was completely doable with even a fairly basic computer by our modern standards... except that I think games like that never really caught on, probably in part because they are boring.
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Sep 6, 2019 07:59
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Sodomy Hussein posted:
Drums or four‐gallon “flimsies”?
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Sep 6, 2019 08:05
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KiteAuraan posted:The best I can find is that like most Ancestral Pueblo structures, it is viewed as a sacred stopping point of the ancestors on their migrations to the Center Place, but that the exact use isn't really discussed. Sounds like a souvenir-shop selling poo poo to people traveling to and from the sacred sites
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Sep 6, 2019 09:11
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Any civilization that comes after us is gonna have a hard time of it without easy access to coal and oil which helped push technological progress way forward. Imagine trying to live your life without plastic.
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Sep 6, 2019 10:13
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VanSandman posted:Any civilization that comes after us is gonna have a hard time of it without easy access to coal and oil which helped push technological progress way forward. I’d be more concerned about metals. We’re not literally burning them up like fossil fuels, but our landfills will only last so long and go so far.
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Sep 6, 2019 10:17
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