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Pile shuffling is definitively not random, and is typically banned in competitive tournaments because it's very easy to give yourself a more even distribution of cards with fewer clumps than if it was completely random (which is typically an advantage). In a board game with a shared deck, where getting a less clumpy and more even deck might actually give a better game experience overall, those objections don't really apply - it's totally fine to pile shuffle cards if you have dexterity issues that prevent you from properly shuffling in an efficient manner. The reason to not pile shuffle is that it's usually dog slow in comparison to other shuffling methods.
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Sep 6, 2019 02:25
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Jabor posted:Pile shuffling is definitively not random, and is typically banned in competitive tournaments because it's very easy to give yourself a more even distribution of cards with fewer clumps than if it was completely random (which is typically an advantage). Yeah what I do is do a pile shuffle or two to 'declump' the cards in a set collection game, then do a couple of mash shuffles and call it a day.
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Sep 6, 2019 02:40
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Pretty sure I could pile shuffle a deck in much less time than I could do 7 riffles and also not have to worry about bending the cards. Pile shuffling is fast if you can deal fast, most people deal slow af though
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Sep 6, 2019 02:43
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Wafflecopper posted:Pretty sure I could pile shuffle a deck in much less time than I could do 7 riffles and also not have to worry about bending the cards. Pile shuffling is fast if you can deal fast, most people deal slow af though No amount of pile shuffling actually randomises the deck. Therefore if the objective is to randomise the deck, riffle shuffles are faster because they achieve the goal.
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Sep 6, 2019 02:50
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It gets it close enough to random for my purposes 
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Sep 6, 2019 02:55
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Wafflecopper posted:It gets it close enough to random for my purposes It's not random in any way. If what you want to do is 'declump' or 'mana weave' the deck to achieve an even distribution of cards through the deck, then pile shuffling is great! But it's not random, it's the opposite of random.
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Sep 6, 2019 03:01
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The thing about random is that it (basically) either IS or ISN'T. A fresh factory deck that has been shuffled a few times but still has a pocket of 3s 4s 5s in a row and another pocket of 10h Jh isn't really "90% random" because 47 of the 52 cards meaningfully moved from their original positions and five didn't. It isn't randomized, period. That being said, if you're happy with what you do for your own game purposes then none of that matters and have fun 
The Eyes Have It fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 03:11
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Played Azul Sintra. Interesting but not enough to get, I’ll stick with regular Azul. It’s a lot more forgiving wrt negative points. There’s more impetus to get the combos going and not skipping turns to reset your glazier, but I like the punishing tiles you can push to others in base Azul. Random boards is also not as interesting to me. At least with base, you can choose your pattern or everyone plays with the same pattern. I misunderstood a rule at first and thought you couldn’t skip over empty columns while resetting and was disappointed when I saw the real rule. Makes it seem too loose and would love to play with the variant sometime.
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Sep 6, 2019 03:49
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Selecta84 posted:Is it out yet? Got told that the rule book should be out this week but I didn't see it yet. Rulebook is out.
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Sep 6, 2019 03:54
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Chill la Chill posted:Played Azul Sintra. Interesting but not enough to get, I’ll stick with regular Azul. It’s a lot more forgiving wrt negative points. There’s more impetus to get the combos going and not skipping turns to reset your glazier, but I like the punishing tiles you can push to others in base Azul. Random boards is also not as interesting to me. At least with base, you can choose your pattern or everyone plays with the same pattern. With regards to the negative points, I thought Sintra was way less forgiving in terms of negative points. The negative point counter doesn't reset between rounds, and if you ever need to go beyond the track, you instantly lose that amount of points then reset. It's not like normal Azul where you can break a tile or two a round and only lose 2 points each round, it'll eventually push you into those big losses.
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Sep 6, 2019 04:29
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The way you can “skip” a turn to reset left and how there’s just so many color combos compared to Azul’s single color limitations really seems forgiving. I played with 3, I can try with 4 next time, but Azul at 3 had plenty of broken tiles compared to this.
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Sep 6, 2019 04:31
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taser rates posted:fewer minis, more wooden cubes Fewer wooden cubes, more black and white Cheapass print-and-play games. Failing that, at least more games like Pocket Ogre. If you're goal is economic accessibility, USD $20 - $40 per box isn't going to cut it. There was a time I would save for months to lay out CAD $50 for a board game. Nuclear War was pretty cheap back in the day, and my friends and I still wound up splitting the cost.
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Sep 6, 2019 05:05
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PerniciousKnid posted:Had there been any discussion of the merits of the Dune reprint? It's on my buylist after the SUSD review, actually having a classic game finally out as affordable reprint is a thing in itself. Dunno when I would get around to playing it properly, though...
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Sep 6, 2019 06:43
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Thanks :-) Gonna work through it now. Edit: Looks pretty good so far. Seems a bit like a Lacerda game in like having to maximize your limited actions and everything is interwoven. Gonna get that one for sure. Selecta84 fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 06:45
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PerniciousKnid posted:Is paying Dune with a new group as bad as it sounds, in terms of comprehension? I've only played a couple of times, but IIRC it isn't ridiculously complicated. Knowing a bit about the Dune universe helps remembering the factions peculiarities, but it isn't really needed.
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Sep 6, 2019 07:47
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Watching various vids and looking at the rulebook makes me think Dune is about on par with Root. The factions play the same but the asymmetry and complexity comes through all the interesting faction powers (who gets bonuses to what, gets paid for what, extra actions, etc). It seems like a pretty random game but also more open to compromise and negotiation than Root, similar to AGoT 2nd. The production looks very nice too, hoping to play soon as well.
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Sep 6, 2019 07:53
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Is there any mechanical reason why you wouldn't immediately change out Dune's dinky little troop tokens for coloured cubes?
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Sep 6, 2019 08:39
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Chill la Chill posted:The way you can “skip” a turn to reset left and how there’s just so many color combos compared to Azul’s single color limitations really seems forgiving. I played with 3, I can try with 4 next time, but Azul at 3 had plenty of broken tiles compared to this. Sintra is way more strategic and interesting when it comes to scoring and drafting tiles. In base Azul it always feels like there's a right answer to maximize points. In Sintra while you might not have as little control over breaking, picking the right combo to get the most points is way more of a big deal. Also as you play more, breaking becomes a much bigger deal because players start strategically picking tiles for maximum breaking. It feels better to get broken tiles when it's because other players collectively spoiled the pot, rather than just being the unlucky player. Sintra is just a better game overall in my opinion.
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Sep 6, 2019 08:48
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hoiyes posted:Is there any mechanical reason why you wouldn't immediately change out Dune's dinky little troop tokens for coloured cubes? Two of the factions have elite troops that need differentiating. But no not really.
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Sep 6, 2019 08:56
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That is where the big cubes come in, my friend.
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Sep 6, 2019 10:04
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Mr. Squishy posted:That is where the big cubes come in, my friend. You're thinking too small. One word: discs
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Sep 6, 2019 10:10
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Mayveena posted:One of the coolest things about this hobby is that you don't have to buy anything to play. A friend has been in the hobby for twenty years and the only game she bought was Dominion. She plays ~10 times a month. As long as she's willing to play what's put in front of her, she's fine. This is one of my favorite things about board games. Recently, a poker loving friend came back into the area, and the guys started talking about trying to do that regularly again. I said, "Well, I like board games because it's free." and they were like, "That game wasn't free." Of course, the point is that I already paid that cost in advance, and my return per hour of game is is much larger than a single poker game. Even if I play for 3 hours for $10, that won't beat a game I've played 10 times already for 90 minutes each. Also, everyone else gets to mooch; it's not like L4D2 where everyone needs to pay $40 or whatever it was to play. Even though we each got 80 hours out of it, that value proposition isn't going to beat a board game that gets a reasonable number of plays. At the same point, we know how absurd it gets when you start getting too into the value add as a specific metric. I'm just saying the return on board games is inherently much higher because of the mooch factor.
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Sep 6, 2019 10:36
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The Eyes Have It posted:The thing about random is that it (basically) either IS or ISN'T. Nothing is random we live in a deterministic universe
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Sep 6, 2019 12:42
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It's me, the guy who corner shuffles and doesn't sleeve any of my cards. Let chaos reign.
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Sep 6, 2019 14:01
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Can anyone recommend some small 2-player games that are playable on an airplane? Wife and I are taking a trip in a couple of weeks and it would be nice to have something to do.
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Sep 6, 2019 14:04
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Funzo posted:Can anyone recommend some small 2-player games that are playable on an airplane? Wife and I are taking a trip in a couple of weeks and it would be nice to have something to do.
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Sep 6, 2019 14:06
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Bottom Liner posted:Watching various vids and looking at the rulebook makes me think Dune is about on par with Root. The factions play the same but the asymmetry and complexity comes through all the interesting faction powers (who gets bonuses to what, gets paid for what, extra actions, etc). It seems like a pretty random game but also more open to compromise and negotiation than Root, similar to AGoT 2nd. The production looks very nice too, hoping to play soon as well. I think Dune is the ideal evolution of Diplomacy and modern dudes on a map game that simply hasn’t been surpassed in 40 whatever years. It can be unfair but unlike a lot of modern games of its type everything in Dune is negotiable. The weird turn order, the storm, spice blow, the cards, knowledge of the cards, your traitors, combat being an auction where the winner takes all, there’s not an element of the game you can’t directly leverage. Dune has the thinnest safeguards. If one person isn’t into it the game collapses but under the right circumstances I haven’t played a more thematic game. And I will argue that Dune is on the lower scale of randomness especially compared to modern contemporaries like Root and Inis. The only random element are spice blow (where new resources drop in but also determine timing of alliances), the treachery cards, starting traitors, and how far the storm moves. But each faction’s power cuts through the randomness in a unique way. Fremen can manipulate the storm and thus control turn order, Atreides knows where new spice will appear and the treachery card being sold, but Harkonnen receives an extra treachery card which Atreides can’t see, the Benefit Gesserit can force a player to play/not play a card in battle, the Guild can cut in turn order during movement, and the Emperor receives so much money that he can just buy/bribe his way out of any situation. It’s really brilliant. I can’t believe the game came out in the 70s but you can see why it was so revered.
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Sep 6, 2019 14:06
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Funzo posted:Can anyone recommend some small 2-player games that are playable on an airplane? Wife and I are taking a trip in a couple of weeks and it would be nice to have something to do. E: these are weird suggestions, just wanted to post about them. Regular suggestions at bottom There is a fantasy combat book series called Lost Worlds where each player is some fantasy creature and you fight by choosing moves off a card and the book calculates the result by combining the page numbers https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1421/lost-worlds There is another game by the same designer, but it’s ww1 airplane dogfighting. It’s a better game but probably less interesting theme: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/798/ace-aces-handy-rotary-series These aren’t hard to find on ebay, but they are definitely not in print and may be expensive. There’s some guy (e: the publisher lol) with a 90’s website who seems to have a bunch and kickstarted a reprint of Ace of Aces awhile back though http://www.flyingbuffalo.com/ace.htm As for more regular 2p games: Jaipur, Hanamikoji, Tak, Onitama. Maybe a roll and write like Ganz Schon Clever? Or look for boardgame apps for a tablet or something Fellis fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 14:35
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Railroad Ink is a great plane game. Completely solitaire but you can do a dice crafting variant if you want to make it more interactive and that works great at two players.
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Sep 6, 2019 14:58
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al-azad posted:It’s really brilliant. I can’t believe the game came out in the 70s but you can see why it was so revered. Don't knock the 1970s! We are real snobs about modern board games some times, looking down on anything publish before Settlers of Catan. But there are a lot of really great games from really the last century. Off the top of my head great games that came out in the 1970s: -Dungeons and Dragons -Magic Realm -Starfleet Battles -Acquire -The Campaign for North Africa -PanzerBlitz -Squad Leader -Cosmic Encounter
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Sep 6, 2019 15:12
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Funzo posted:Can anyone recommend some small 2-player games that are playable on an airplane? Wife and I are taking a trip in a couple of weeks and it would be nice to have something to do. Cribbage
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Sep 6, 2019 15:31
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sonatinas posted:Cribbage
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Sep 6, 2019 15:42
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Acquire came out in the 60s.
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Sep 6, 2019 15:50
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al-azad posted:And I will argue that Dune is on the lower scale of randomness especially compared to modern contemporaries like Root and Inis. The only random element are spice blow (where new resources drop in but also determine timing of alliances), the treachery cards, starting traitors, and how far the storm moves. But each faction’s power cuts through the randomness in a unique way. I really like Dune, but it's a stretch to call it less random than those others. Root has dice combat, but each battle has a maximum loss of 3 units/buildings. And while card draw determines where you can do certain actions, you draw frequently enough that it's not a crippling factor. That's it for Root's randomness. Inis's red cards are highly random, and sometimes you won't get great choices in the draft (although it's your own fault if your strategy hinges on very specific future drafting). Other than that, the randomized lands don't effect any one player disproportionately. The randomness of Dune's traitor cards and the blind (except to one player) draft seem like far more game-affecting random elements to me.
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Sep 6, 2019 15:57
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al-azad posted:I think Dune is the ideal evolution of Diplomacy and modern dudes on a map game that simply hasn’t been surpassed in 40 whatever years. I will fight you. Diplomacy is pure and perfect and cannot evolve - there is simply no way for it to get better.
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Sep 6, 2019 16:16
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ketchup vs catsup posted:I will fight you. Diplomacy is pure and perfect and cannot evolve - there is simply no way for it to get better. Italy sucks and Turkey is boring e: you're definitely right that it isn't surpassed by games with more rules though
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Sep 6, 2019 16:24
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Funzo posted:Can anyone recommend some small 2-player games that are playable on an airplane? Wife and I are taking a trip in a couple of weeks and it would be nice to have something to do. The Fox in the Forest or ...and then, we held hands
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Sep 6, 2019 16:31
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CaptainRightful posted:I really like Dune, but it's a stretch to call it less random than those others. Root has dice combat, but each battle has a maximum loss of 3 units/buildings. And while card draw determines where you can do certain actions, you draw frequently enough that it's not a crippling factor. That's it for Root's randomness. It is more game effecting which is why every faction ignores the randomness in a unique way. There's no element in Dune that is purely unknown: Atreides knows the treachery cards except the extra Harkonnen gets, and everyone knows 3 leaders that will never be traitors and at least 1 that will. The effect of randomness in Dune comes down to how much you want to pay someone else to circumvent it for yourself. In Root I could start with three bunny cards as the birds or never get certain items as the vagabond. That does mean Dune is IMO strictly a 6 player game. Remove a pillar from it and you lose access to information.
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Sep 6, 2019 16:38
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Hit up my FLGS today. I didn't get any games for the plane ride, but I did get a barely used copy of Spirit Island for $50 so I'm going to call that a win.
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Sep 7, 2019 00:51
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Generally when I see someone talk about how balance isn't important, it's someone's excuse to poo poo out something that didn't get enough playtesting. That being said, I enjoy some pretty fragile games, like John Company, Republic of Rome, and Pericles. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Sep 7, 2019 |
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Sep 7, 2019 05:08
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