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Bust Rodd posted:I specifically meant the “whole sleeper agent is removed from the zone so that it can avoid the inevitable downfall and corruption of said location and therefore be perfectly poised to resolve the situation upon being re-introduced” thing It's hard to say, since the only entity that could know would be the void itself, and it's not particularly talkative. Everyone else you run into seems surprised to see you. Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Sep 9, 2019 |
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Sep 9, 2019 14:11
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The only reason i think Nugget had to be placed or begin "elsewhere" is that there is evidence to suggest you're like the 1,000th, maybe 10,000th little voidling to spawn and attempt your way up and out. I personally think Hornet's mom had you zipped off to somewhere else because she knew something was coming and needed a failsafe. I just don't think "and this one little dude napping in the Howling Canyons was seemingly both immune to the entropy that consumed the kingdom and also seemingly impossible for the traitors to locate" makes any sense.
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Sep 9, 2019 14:22
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In that case he would be the worlds worst sleeper agent as he missed the apocalypse by a couple of decades.
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Sep 9, 2019 14:28
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Bust Rodd posted:I just don't think "and this one little dude napping in the Howling Canyons was seemingly both immune to the entropy that consumed the kingdom and also seemingly impossible for the traitors to locate" makes any sense. Just gonna spoiler all of this for anyone still playing cause I mention some endgame stuff. Making an immune knight was the entire point of the king making all the little knights, though, why would it be weird that one actually succeeded in what they were supposed to be? And the player character was probably well past the Howling Cliffs - to be immune you can't hope, and going outside the kingdom erases your mind. Like Inexplicable Humblebrag said: Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:e: hornet implies you have been hanging around outside of hallownest: "You've seen beyond this kingdom's bounds. Yours is resilience born of two voids." Though yeah, no idea how you'd have gotten out there in the first place. The seer also muses whether you're answering some call by either the current Hollow Knight or the Radiance, so that could be why you came back.
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Sep 9, 2019 14:37
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i liked the bit where the Knight beat Zote to death with a golf club
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Sep 9, 2019 14:46
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I don't think it's possible to reconcile the Knight's behavior with the idea that it doesn't have emotions or a mind, but it is a mystery.
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Sep 9, 2019 14:48
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Rand Brittain posted:I don't think it's possible to reconcile the Knight's behavior with the idea that it doesn't have emotions or a mind, but it is a mystery. Idunno about that, it's a pretty big plot point. As in it's actually spelled out on the middle of the screen at some point.
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Sep 9, 2019 15:14
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Cartoon Man posted:I hope we get more background on this wonderful character in the new game cause I didn’t know any of that! Most of the lore of Hollow Knight is very subtle and you really have to go looking for it. Apparently in development they had a concept for Hornet as the "princess of 3 queens": Her mother was Herrah, queen of spiders in Deepnest, and The Pale King. Who had to make a bargain with the King to get a daughter. Then there's the White Lady, the Queen of Hollownest, who the King mated with or used somehow to produce Hornet and Hollow Knight. Sort of like a surrogate mother. Then there's Hive Queen Vespa, which in the original lore raised Hornet as a child, since she couldn't be with Herrah anymore (she was a dreamer, that was the bargain) and Vespa named her Hornet. I think that's an amazingly cool concept and I hope that Silksong explores it more. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Sep 9, 2019 |
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Sep 9, 2019 16:30
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skasion posted:HK is at the Howling Cliffs in the beginning, so I guess we tried to leave but couldn’t make it past the wind. How we got up there from being buried in the abyss is another matter. Bust Rodd posted:Hmmm I’ve always interpreted the game as Nugget being formed a loooooooong time ago, not simply a few hours before you meet them. The comic shows that Quirrel was wandering around the outer edges of the city for a long time, and lost his memory in doing so. I figure the HK was the same, although he didn't even know poo poo to begin with. But eventually in their zombie-like haze they return to Hollownest, because deep down they know they have to do something.
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Sep 9, 2019 16:32
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Gil....gud?
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Sep 9, 2019 19:24
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it clearly says "gip gud" she's a reagan fan, as befits someone raised by royalty; a reactionary who lashes out at that she does not understand, c.f. her constant harrassment of the Knight
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Sep 9, 2019 19:25
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Rand Brittain posted:I don't think it's possible to reconcile the Knight's behavior with the idea that it doesn't have emotions or a mind, but it is a mystery. And that is why even if you get the void heart, the "bad ending" will still result in Radiance breaking free. You are not a truly empty vessel.
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Sep 9, 2019 22:22
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Hearts too big for such a l’il nugget!
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Sep 10, 2019 06:14
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SirSamVimes posted:And that is why even if you get the void heart, the "bad ending" will still result in Radiance breaking free. You are not a truly empty vessel. Pretty much yeah you weren’t continuing the cycle very much longer. If the original Hollow Knight failed some time after he was entombed, there was no chance that You would succeed at the same task.
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Sep 10, 2019 06:37
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That Hollow Knight ain't so tough!
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Sep 10, 2019 08:24
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Knorth posted:That Hollow Knight ain't so tough! [pure vessel theme intensifies]
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Sep 10, 2019 10:57
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Is the only way to fight the Pure Vessel and Radiance by doing the 4th and 5th pantheons? Because I’d like to fight them but there’s no way I’m making it through those.
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Sep 10, 2019 12:09
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Doing the third Pantheon unlocks Godseeker mode, which has Pure Vessel unlocked in the Hall of Gods. For Absolute Radiance there no options aside from doing Pantheon 5
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Sep 10, 2019 12:37
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SirSamVimes posted:Doing the third Pantheon unlocks Godseeker mode, which has Pure Vessel unlocked in the Hall of Gods. Does Godseeker mode mean I have to start a new game and get all the way to the Hall of Gods?
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Sep 10, 2019 12:46
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RCarr posted:Does Godseeker mode mean I have to start a new game and get all the way to the Hall of Gods? Nope, you just start locked in Godhome with all the charms and spells and stuff unlocked. It's just Godhome - The Mode.
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Sep 10, 2019 12:50
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SirSamVimes posted:And that is why even if you get the void heart, the "bad ending" will still result in Radiance breaking free. You are not a truly empty vessel. I mean, the Queen seems pretty sure you can do it, and there's nobody to contradict her. The ending doesn't really play it as a failure, either. In short, I have no idea what emptiness means.
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Sep 10, 2019 15:00
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The Queen also thought that the only way to stop the plague was to contain the Radiance, not kill it.
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Sep 10, 2019 15:17
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I have nothing but a vague intuition to base this on, but I kind of feel like killing the Radiance might have negative consequences almost as bad as letting it live. It'll be interesting to see how / whether the Hornet game addresses the aftermath of Hollow Knight.
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Sep 10, 2019 16:33
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I have nothing but a vague intuition to base this on, but I kind of feel like killing the Radiance might have negative consequences almost as bad as letting it live. It'll be interesting to see how / whether the Hornet game addresses the aftermath of Hollow Knight. (Godhome ending spoilers) I feel like that's a pretty straight read of the Godhome ending: "Hooray, the Void wins! ...oh poo poo, the Void won."
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Sep 10, 2019 17:16
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The moth who gives you the dreamblade paints a more benign picture of the Radiance as well.
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Sep 10, 2019 17:30
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I don’t think you can apply moralism like good and bad to these concepts. The sun was worshipped as a god not because it grew your crops but also because you went blind if you looked at it for too long.
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Sep 10, 2019 17:32
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Mzbundifund posted:The moth who gives you the dreamblade paints a more benign picture of the Radiance as well. she threw a hissy fit about no longer being worshipped and decided to remove free will from bugs so they would go back to worshipping her she's not benign
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Sep 10, 2019 17:36
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They’re bugs. Them having free will is weird and explicitly an unnatural state caused by some kind of weird amoral wandering wizard/god.
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Sep 10, 2019 17:38
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I think it depends on how much you read into the "unites the void under their will" of the Void Heart and Dream No More in general. I felt that in at least DNM, the knight, and by extension the void itself, had been fashioned into a benevolent (or at least non-malevolent) force in accordance to the knight's will, and in Embrace the Void they were instead guided to the opposite.
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Sep 10, 2019 17:38
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skasion posted:They’re bugs. Them having free will is weird and explicitly an unnatural state caused by some kind of weird amoral wandering wizard/god. Except there are many bugs from outside Hallownest who have free will despite never having been around during the Pale King's reign. Also even if that were the case, why does being gifted sapience by a wizard/god mean that it's okay to take their free will away from them?
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Sep 10, 2019 17:41
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It's not clear that the dreams of the Radiance are the result of malice or spite or anything else. The moths were spawned from the Radiance, and it is in their nature to seek the light. Attempting to live without it might not be possible.
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Sep 10, 2019 17:47
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SirSamVimes posted:Except there are many bugs from outside Hallownest who have free will despite never having been around during the Pale King's reign. Why is it okay to give them free will?
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Sep 10, 2019 17:49
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skasion posted:Why is it okay to give them free will? That has nothing to do with whether or not it's okay to take it away once it's bestowed.
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Sep 10, 2019 17:51
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SirSamVimes posted:That has nothing to do with whether or not it's okay to take it away once it's bestowed. You’re assuming the premise though. The Radiance and the Pale King are very much equivalent. Both unleash some kind of weird mass psychic effect on the bugs which leads them to create, in both cases, a fairly nasty social hierarchy in which the Radiance/King are absolutely powerful at the top and a gang of sycophants lords it over the rest. Why should we conclude that moving from one state to the other is fine, but moving from the other state back to the one is terrible?
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Sep 10, 2019 18:04
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We shouldn’t, both states of subservience are bad.
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Sep 10, 2019 19:06
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Is a bug not entitled to the sweat of his brow
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Sep 10, 2019 19:27
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A vessel chooses, a bug obeys
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Sep 10, 2019 19:29
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god maybe it is bioshock
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Sep 10, 2019 19:43
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The higher mind thing the pale king provides is specifically for the void vessels.
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Sep 10, 2019 19:57
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also Silksong seems to imply that bugs outside of Hallownest get along just fine thanks
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Sep 10, 2019 21:02
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