|
As an owner of two Thunderbolt NUCs that’s still expensive because of Thunderbolt interfaces and bays being much more expensive to expand versus SAS DAS / expanders. It may get better with USB4 but that’s still years away and my 400K IOPS home datacenter use cases are here now. It was literally another $1.5k cheaper for me years ago to get a case with 8 drive bays and stuff them locally than to bother with anything with thunderbolt. Even Thunderbolt 10 GBe NICs are running $300+ to the point it’s arguable to get an external eGPU Thunderbolt enclosure and drop in whatever you want onto the PCIe bus. It’s probably next for me now that I’ve gotten my new workstation built and all that’d matter is the SAS cabling and a quiet enough SAS expander. Still won’t solve the 10 GbE problem unfortunately but maybe a dual PCIe slot adapter exists out there. TL;DR - just build or buy a NAS for 8 bays instead of using Thunderbolt unless your workflow is primarily working off Macs with high speed local storage needs.
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2019 23:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 12:20 |
|
|
L2ARC is what FreeNAS calls an SSD Read Cache,
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2019 21:37
|
|
|
Schadenboner posted:L2ARC is what FreeNAS calls an SSD Read Cache, It's a second-level MFU/MRU-cache where LBAs are mapped in memory, which means that you can cause the system to run out of memory by using a L2ARC that's too big compared to the amount of memory you have in the system - and if you've maxed out the amount of memory and OOM your system, you can no longer import your pool. On top of that, it doesn't necessarily even go on an SSD (it can work fine on a 10 or 15k rpm spinning rust, as many enterprises did - and some still do - back before flash was as widely available/less trusted in terms of data reliability)
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2019 22:11
|
|
|
D. Ebdrup posted:I would assume so as I can't fathom what else it would be, but it's an incredibly bad president to set when they just willy-nilly rename technologies irrespective of the actual implementation details. Yeah, it looks like L2ARC is what we hu-mons call a Read Cache and ZIL (ZFS Intent Log) is a Write Cache? https://www.45drives.com/wiki/index.php?title=FreeNAS_-_What_is_ZIL_%26_L2ARC E: For context, the Proliant Micro Gen10 apparently caps at 32GB of RAM but it has space for an SSD where the DVD drive would otherwise go, and SSDs are so cheap it seems like it would be an "easy win" (as the kids say these days)? E2: If anyone with one could check in BIOS: can the PCIe x8 slot do Bifurcation? I'm wondering if you could do a high-speed pool by adding a PCIe dual M.2 card? Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Sep 10, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2019 22:31
|
|
|
FreeNAS is based on ZFS and ZFS has the concepts of the ARC and L2ARC. The ARC is an adaptive cache system in RAM, and if you add a layer 2 ARC that'll be populated as blocks are evicted from the in-memory version. The ZIL is a completely separate concept that can absorb synchronous writes and then later move them to main storage.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2019 22:34
|
|
|
To be clear: ZIL is not a general purpose write cache, it's used only for synchronous writes to the disk. Regular writes never hit the ZIL at all. You always have a ZIL but if there's no dedicated device it resides on the pool.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2019 22:43
|
|
|
Schadenboner posted:L2ARC is what FreeNAS calls an SSD Read Cache, L2ARC is not solely an SSD read cache. It's a cache for everything that ZFS needs (including filesystem metadata) that gets spilled into when ARC is full. Or you can configure it as a filedata-only cache. Or metadata-only.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2019 22:44
|
|
|
I think I'm going to be better suited throwing basic bitch Linux on this. FreeNAS is scary and confusing. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2019 22:45
|
|
|
You can use ZFS on Linux pretty easily if you want to in the future as well (https://zfsonlinux.org/); I've been using it on Debian for a while and it's rock solid. That being said if FreeNAS is scary straight Linux may be a bit much as well, there's always purpose-built systems like Unraid you could use.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2019 22:47
|
|
|
for a home user, ZFS/FreeNAS will do the right thing without you having to worry about it, and it will perform great. However, ZFS doesn't do the SSD cache drive use-case very gracefully for consumers. In particular it needs a pretty large amount of RAM before you can start doing SSD caching. And a separate cache log (SLOG) for the ZIL will not do anything for a home consumer in 99.9 repeating percent of the time. If you just plug in drives and go, then everything will be fine. If you aren't using 10 GbE or faster on your NAS then there is no point to an SSD anyway. ZFS will automatically batch small operations in RAM so unless you are doing synchronous writes of lots of small files there could never be any possible benefit. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Sep 10, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2019 22:49
|
|
|
I mean, I spend a decent amount of time at work janitoring Linux but I've never touched ZFS. UnRAID looks interesting but if I'm packing 7 dicks in the Gen10 I think that would put me above the "Basic" tier? 
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2019 22:53
|
|
|
Schadenboner posted:I mean, I spend a decent amount of time at work janitoring Linux but I've never touched ZFS. I don't wanna know how many dicks you're packing but yeah if you're CJing Linux then any of these are viable options. FreeNAS is probably the smoothest route to ZFS at this point.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2019 22:57
|
|
|
Less Fat Luke posted:I don't wanna know how many dicks you're packing but yeah if you're CJing Linux then any of these are viable options. FreeNAS is probably the smoothest route to ZFS at this point. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2019 22:59
|
|
|
For home use, there's no reason to get into SSDs for L2ARC or ZIL. If you're blowing through ARC, adding more RAM will be far more effective, since L2ARC also decreases what's left usable in RAM. If you've got SSDs laying around burning a hole in your pocket, use them for boot / scratch purposes. Set up your various download clients to dump their jumbled writes to a SSD and then copy it all in one quick move after it's complete and unpacked.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2019 23:10
|
|
|
Those Synology drive bays look nice, but I still have a Proliant N40L that's running fine for my needs-- just using it as a NAS and not as any thing else server wise. I even keep it off when not really in use. It has 5x 2TB drives in it, but I am thinking of finally upgrading to 10TB drives or something to get some more life out of it. Will I run into that voltage problem someone mentioned before? Also for just using it as a NAS, how much do I cripple myself by using this 10 year old hardware? I think a NAS running ZFS is a just still a NAS, at least I would think-- unless you're doing like fancy 10GB Ethernet, software jails, or such, which I don't use. It does have like a 4+ minute boot time, probably because the boot drive is on an internal USB2 stick. I'm probably just going to buy a eSATA to SATA adapter cord and run the system off a cheap SSD off the back eSATA port to try to speed up that boot time for FreeNAS. Funny how 7.2 TB from 5x2TB drives in ZFS1 felt like a huge amount of space in 2010.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2019 00:15
|
|
|
jeeves posted:Will I run into that voltage problem someone mentioned before? This sounds like you're asking about the issue with the drives not powering up. This is due to a revision of the SATA power spec, where the previously unused 3.3 V line was repurposed to a power cycling function, so old PSUs will inadvertently prevent new drives from powering up. It is likely that any new drives you buy will be up-to-date, but whether or not you'll run into this issue will depend on how old the PSU you're using is. I'm guessing that that server is old enough where this might indeed be the case.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2019 07:11
|
|
|
As others have pointed out, the ZIL is an integral part of ZFS - but let's not mix ZIL and SLOG terminology. SLOG is the separate log device (usually mirrored) which can be used to solve the problem of not having enough IOPS or bandwidth to write syncronous data to disk for databases or similar applications which have a high rate of syncronous writes. Schadenboner posted:Yeah, it looks like L2ARC is what we hu-mons call a Read Cache and ZIL (ZFS Intent Log) is a Write Cache?  , friend.Fundementally, you don't need to worry about L2ARC unless what you're doing on your pool that is frequently accessed cannot fit in memory - something that can easily be determined by running 'systat -zarc' when you've SSH'd into the FreeNAS box and looking at the statistics, specifically the percentage number. Here's an example: code:You don't need to worry about SLOG unless you're doing a lot of syncronous writes (which you almost assuredly aren't) - but please don't use a single SLOG if you decide to use them, because SLOG needs to be mirrored since if you only have one and it disappears even for a brief time or gets an unrecoverable error, it's a guarantee that you've lost data (which is one of the guarantees ZFS gives you over any other filesystem). BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Sep 11, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2019 11:04
|
|
|
Atomizer posted:This sounds like you're asking about the issue with the drives not powering up. This is due to a revision of the SATA power spec, where the previously unused 3.3 V line was repurposed to a power cycling function, so old PSUs will inadvertently prevent new drives from powering up. It is likely that any new drives you buy will be up-to-date, but whether or not you'll run into this issue will depend on how old the PSU you're using is. I'm guessing that that server is old enough where this might indeed be the case. I guess I'll buy a new 8-10TB drive and see if the Proliant N40L fires it up. Worst case I have to buy a new enclosure-- best case I just finish filling out the rest of the drives bays with the new drives.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2019 22:55
|
|
|
Or add kapton on the 3.3v pin. Or use Molex-> sata converter cables
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2019 23:23
|
|
|
jeeves posted:I guess I'll buy a new 8-10TB drive and see if the Proliant N40L fires it up. Worst case I have to buy a new enclosure-- best case I just finish filling out the rest of the drives bays with the new drives. I've got 5x 8TB WD drives in a N36L I'm moving my data over to from my 5x 2TB in the N40L I use as my NAS. Last step will be swapping the disks over to the faster microserver.. I taped over the 3.3v pin on the three shucked disks without trying them but it's entirely possible the HP Microserver doesn't use 3.3v to the disks anyway since it's got it's own power runs to the drive cage and a molex in the top. I also have a SSD for the freenas boot disk on an esata to sata cable that runs back into the case. It's tight but everything fits decently. I 3d printed a 5.25" to 3.5" with an additional 2.5" disk mount setup for the top.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2019 23:27
|
|
|
Rexxed posted:I've got 5x 8TB WD drives in a N36L I'm moving my data over to from my 5x 2TB in the N40L I use as my NAS. Last step will be swapping the disks over to the faster microserver.. I taped over the 3.3v pin on the three shucked disks without trying them but it's entirely possible the HP Microserver doesn't use 3.3v to the disks anyway since it's got it's own power runs to the drive cage and a molex in the top. I also have a SSD for the freenas boot disk on an esata to sata cable that runs back into the case. It's tight but everything fits decently. I 3d printed a 5.25" to 3.5" with an additional 2.5" disk mount setup for the top. This is pretty much the exact setup I'm thinking of doing with my N40L that I have, besides the 3d printed thing. I'll just leave the ssd hanging above the 3.5" drive up top.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2019 23:42
|
|
|
2.5" drives get double-sided tape, no need for a formal bracket unless it's a laptop or mobile workstation.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2019 23:51
|
|
|
I’m trying to figure out what sort of NAS/server build I should go with at home. My needs are pretty basic, all I plan on doing with the thing is run Plex/Sonarr/Radarr, Image level backups of home PC, small amount of photo/file backups. I have another intel mini NUC that I could have run Plex/Sonarr/Radarr but I’m really looking for stupid simple over tinkering. I just want to come home and watch UHD movies on a Friday night. To that end I was thinking of a new Synology DS 218+. Figure I can run it in RAID1, move some stuff to S3 buckets if its important enough to warrant off-site storage. If I expand the RAM I’m thinking I could have it run Plex no problem, I don’t plan on streaming this crap off-site, just need all local direct play. With all this in mind is a DS 218+ a good way to go, or should I try and build some DIY server that could probably do the same thing at half the price with used parts and some tinkering? Or does QNAP or somebody else have something similar that’s easy and fairly cheap? I’ve had poo poo experiences with Drobos after dealing with them in a previous life at a poo poo MSP and would like to avoid them like the plague.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2019 23:56
|
|
|
BaseballPCHiker posted:I’m trying to figure out what sort of NAS/server build I should go with at home. U-NAS 410 or 810A chassis and whatever mobo fits your needs/port configurations. Gemini Lake boards are hard to come by but have good power consumption (and up to 4 SATA ports on some boards), or go LGA1151 or LGA1151v2 and get more horsepower. Yes, you can usually do DIY at the same performance at half the price, or something way better for the same price.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 04:51
|
|
|
Paul MaudDib posted:U-NAS 410 or 810A chassis and whatever mobo fits your needs/port configurations. Gemini Lake boards are hard to come by but have good power consumption (and up to 4 SATA ports on some boards), or go LGA1151 or LGA1151v2 and get more horsepower. Is Supermicro currently the only ones with EPYC-based Mini-ITX boards out? Newegg seems to suggest that this may be the case but obviously if a bunch of new boards were about to be released Newegg wouldn't have those?
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 15:42
|
|
|
Schadenboner posted:Is Supermicro currently the only ones with EPYC-based Mini-ITX boards out? Newegg seems to suggest that this may be the case but obviously if a bunch of new boards were about to be released Newegg wouldn't have those?
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 18:42
|
|
|
God bless ASRock and their nutty tiny boards 
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 18:44
|
|
|
D. Ebdrup posted:AsrockRack has these two which seem to go well with the usual Broadcom HBA in initiator target mode. What's a good 4-to-8 device raid controller these days?
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 18:52
|
|
|
I've got zero complaints with the LSIs or their PERC-branded variants, should be able to pick up some decent prior-gen ones for cheap on ebay.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 19:22
|
|
|
BangersInMyKnickers posted:I've got zero complaints with the LSIs or their PERC-branded variants, should be able to pick up some decent prior-gen ones for cheap on ebay. The PERC are the Dell ones right? Generally can 8-port cards do multiple arrays? For example, a 6-disk one made from spinners then a 2-disk SSD? Would that be risky/inadvisable because then both arrays are dependent on the same cache? Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Sep 12, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 19:33
|
|
|
Yeah, PERC is Dell's branding for it. There's easily a couple dozen variants of the LSI2008 out there and they're all cheap and reliable. Aside from avoiding no-name poo poo and way-old LSI1xxx generation cards that don't support large drives, the only other thing I'd really say to avoid is the LSI2108, or at least a Supermicro card based on it - I've tried and there's no way to flash one to IT mode.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 19:35
|
|
|
Schadenboner posted:The PERC are the Dell ones right? Yeah, in general you can have as many logical arrays as you have drives attached to the controller for that raid level. A raid 1 OS vol and then a raid 5 data vol behind it is no problem, do it all the time. You could make each disk its own raid 0 volume if you felt like it
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 19:57
|
|
|
Anyone know whether the 3.3v pin trick is generally needed when installing Easystore drives into a DAS? I have a Terramaster 500C that I'm going to shuck a few 8TB and a 10TB drive into tonight, but I don't have any kapton tape. Also just sounds like a pain in the rear end in general, so hoping this is more about installing them directly into PCs.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 20:26
|
|
|
I have to say the QNAP TS-932x is looking pretty sweet as a next upgrade. 5x3.5" and 4x2.5" with dual 10gbe. Would be nice to shove all my media onto a 3.5" array then a 2.5" SSD array for hosting VMs. https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/ts-932x
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 20:31
|
|
|
Schadenboner posted:What's a good 4-to-8 device raid controller these days? There is still just this one thread which has all of the information required.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 21:06
|
|
|
Moey posted:I have to say the QNAP TS-932x is looking pretty sweet as a next upgrade. If I weren't so bought in to the Synology ecosystem, I would be looking pretty hard at this. That's a lot of features for the dollar USB 3.1 -> 5gbps Ethernet adapters exist for $80 Thunderbolt 3 -> 10gbps adapters exist for $150 USB4 is coming next year supporting 20 and 40gbps speeds as standard Would be great if Synology added USB4, or better straight gave us 5/10gbe on the consumer DS models. Right now the cheapest 10gbps Synology unit is ds1819+ @ $950 + $150 add on 10g card
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 02:18
|
|
|
Or an 1817 with a $25 connectX card.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 12:59
|
|
|
Moey posted:I have to say the QNAP TS-932x is looking pretty sweet as a next upgrade. The Intel version of this also looks nice (maybe underpowered?), I really wish wish the AMD version had a newer processor than a GX-420MC from like 6 years ago? I had no idea QNAP had a 9-disk (5+4, whatever) chassis.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 13:03
|
|
|
Alright folks, looking for a sanity check/pitfall check. I've picked up a used PoweredgeRS510 (Dual X5650, 64gb of ram) and a MD1200 with 12x2TB drives. I'm looking at setting up FreeNAS to setup a backup server at home, which will itself then backup to an online service. The MD1200 is hooked up via a LSI (rebranded as Dell) SAS2008 HBA (aka H200E) controller, which is funning firmware 7.15.08.00-IT. This looks like it is already setup correctly for FreeNAS to use without issue. Or should I try and update the firmware/flash it to a stock LSI firmware? Also - should I install FreeNAS bare-metal and run VM's on it, or should I use VMWare, and install FreeNAS onto a VM? I do want to run a few small VM's on the system (Win 10, Linux, possibly Server 2016 or 2019) for lab/playing around.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 19:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 12:20 |
|
|
Siochain posted:Alright folks, looking for a sanity check/pitfall check. I've picked up a used PoweredgeRS510 (Dual X5650, 64gb of ram) and a MD1200 with 12x2TB drives. I'm looking at setting up FreeNAS to setup a backup server at home, which will itself then backup to an online service. What about Unraid as an option? It does cost money but given the hardware $89 for a nice interface, easy use of VMs, Docker, various applications. I view Unraid as an easy way to get a homelab running.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 21:31
|
|
