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Len posted:So how do you guys feel about books going out of print and never being found again? Or board games? Or tabletop RPGs? Miniature games? Card games? Books are also being digitized specifically to stop that from happening, even books no one has a reason to read. Take a look at Gutenberg.org and their weird list of esoteric titles some times. You can literally read a bird watching book from the 1800's. Anything in book form is likely going the same route - I can find a PDF of almost an RPG book that's ever been published, even if it was never sold as a digital title. Tabletop Games are sadder, because they're not something easily digitized. They have to actually be preserved and take up real space. OTOH most modern games are either getting digital versions because it's relatively easy now to make a digital board game thanks to a poo poo ton of work in that area from a handful of companies, and most Card Games (even old-schoolish ones) have had the cards scanned into files and uploaded somewhere. I don't think it's silly or unrealistic that media capable of being digitized should be stored.
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Sep 10, 2019 23:32
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This talk of PT is reminding me of how upset (well, not upset, but that momentary pang of oh-man) I felt that I could never play the sequel to Primal Rage back in the day, because it was basically not completed. Then a PCB of it was found and debuted at a relatively-nearby arcade, so I finally got to play it! ... and it was an incomplete (shock) mess of a game. As others have said, PT will never get to even that initial stage (oh-man, that sucks I can never play it... oh well) because everyone and their mother did a LP of it on youtube. I know someone said that it's not the same, but hell, that's practically why LPs exist.
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Sep 10, 2019 23:32
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TheAnomaly posted:Books are also being digitized specifically to stop that from happening, even books no one has a reason to read. Take a look at Gutenberg.org and their weird list of esoteric titles some times. You can literally read a bird watching book from the 1800's. Anything in book form is likely going the same route - I can find a PDF of almost an RPG book that's ever been published, even if it was never sold as a digital title. When it comes to tabletop games you can still preserve them - regular scans for the 2d printed elements, and 3d scanning of components that aren't suited for that. Same way there's a lot of archaelogical artifacts by now that have been fully 3d scanned and photographed from a large amount of angles. It's expensive work, but it's possible. And luckily many games are still actively produced or have documents from the originators which specify how to make the parts that aren't easily scanned, and that's another way to preserve them.
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Sep 10, 2019 23:58
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Sleeveless posted:Nothing lasts forever and learning to accept that is a way better use of your time and emotional labor than emotional labor is when a job requires a worker to suppress their genuine emotions because they're expected to behave as if they feel a certain way it's a term for a psychologically demanding and potentially damaging process that's important for understanding the unique stressors placed on workers in the service sector, please don't dilute it
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Sep 11, 2019 00:16
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For the most recent example of digital games being pulled, https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/2019/08/07/ducktales-remastered-removed-digital-stores/
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Sep 11, 2019 00:19
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konami absolutely should pay me for my emotional labor
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Sep 11, 2019 00:27
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The Saddest Rhino posted:For the most recent example of digital games being pulled, https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/2019/08/07/ducktales-remastered-removed-digital-stores/ Holy poo poo! That and Transformers Devastation means I have 2 "gone forever consumers be damned" games on Steam now.
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Sep 11, 2019 00:32
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Len posted:So how do you guys feel about books going out of print and never being found again? Or board games? Or tabletop RPGs? Miniature games? Card games? Wait it's worth that much or more? drat. I have a copy that was only played once or twice in a now beat up box, but it's still all there I'm pretty sure. e - Epic Duels is also apparently worth a good amount too? Huh. Mercedes Colomar fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Sep 11, 2019 |
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Sep 11, 2019 00:36
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Manuel Calavera posted:Wait it's worth that much or more? drat. I have a copy that was only played once or twice in a now beat up box, but it's still all there I'm pretty sure. Yeah some old board games loving skyrocketed in price. The Starcraft one got a guy I know $400 last year. The blizzcon exclusive tile, just a single cardboard hex, that was given to him free as a promotion for his game store, got him something like $80 The Gears boardgame is around $150 last I checked
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Sep 11, 2019 01:35
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romanowski posted:konami absolutely should pay me for my emotional labor e: this is a self-mocking bit about me being sad that a vocabulary term is being misused, not a commentary on anybody else's emotional state Cubone fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Sep 11, 2019 |
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Sep 11, 2019 01:38
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MisterBibs posted:This talk of PT is reminding me of how upset (well, not upset, but that momentary pang of oh-man) I felt that I could never play the sequel to Primal Rage back in the day, because it was basically not completed. Then a PCB of it was found and debuted at a relatively-nearby arcade, so I finally got to play it! Primal Rage is also fun because of the DRM on the arcade version making it impossible to properly emulate. If I'm remembering things right, there was an official port on the GC/PS2/Xbox that was hosed up because they were just emulating the game and hadn't broken the DRM. I love Primal Rage, it's super goofy, but there is no arcade perfect port or emulation, and until that gets figured out, there never will be.
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Sep 11, 2019 01:47
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The Saddest Rhino posted:For the most recent example of digital games being pulled, https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/2019/08/07/ducktales-remastered-removed-digital-stores/ Got a physical release on consoles so not gone forever
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Sep 11, 2019 01:47
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Sleeveless posted:Sorry dude, a guy who was already years overdue and hugely over-budget on a game putting his team even further behind and in the hole to make a free product so he could pal around with Norman Rheedus for a day was not a sound financial or managerial decision no matter how much of a weird parasocial relationship you have with the guy doing it. Konami own the majority of gambling space in japan and a huge ton elsewhere, they can eat a million dicks before they're ever allowed to whine about budget, which even with Kojimmer spending as much as he did, they almost undoubtedly made up and then some in like a day at most. Piss all over "sound financial or managerial decisions" to be quite honest.
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Sep 11, 2019 03:48
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Manuel Calavera posted:e - Epic Duels is also apparently worth a good amount too? Huh. What the gently caress I have that game and it is not worth $300. That said, anyone wanna buy a copy of Epic Duels for $300? 
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Sep 11, 2019 04:02
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Sep 11, 2019 07:49
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Sleeveless posted:Sorry dude, a guy who was already years overdue and hugely over-budget on a game putting his team even further behind and in the hole to make a free product so he could pal around with Norman Rheedus for a day was not a sound financial or managerial decision no matter how much of a weird parasocial relationship you have with the guy doing it. As a gamer, my primary concern is that game producers make sound financial and managerial decisions, ensuring that they can keep making money forever even if it means I don't get good games
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Sep 11, 2019 08:10
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I loving love it when corporations make money
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Sep 11, 2019 08:11
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Like you can not be into Kojima, but actually ever arguing on the side of konami against him is some clown rear end corporate lover bullshit.
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Sep 11, 2019 08:41
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The biggest and most tragic casualty of expired licensing deals is Outrun Online Arcade. I'm glad I bought it on 360 when I had a chance but that game is still the most recent example of the particular niche it occupies and I miss it so bad. Horizon Chase Turbo is OK but it doesn't quite do it for me.
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Sep 11, 2019 10:02
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bbcisdabomb posted:What the gently caress I have that game and it is not worth $300. It's getting a spiritual successor that's random figures from myth fighting it out. I think Bigfoot vs Robin Hood is one of the sets? https://restorationgames.com/unmatched/
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Sep 11, 2019 11:28
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Thats not Doomguy on the cover though, He was sitting in a chair waiting for everyone to get back.
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Sep 11, 2019 20:38
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fishmech posted:When it comes to tabletop games you can still preserve them - regular scans for the 2d printed elements, and 3d scanning of components that aren't suited for that. Same way there's a lot of archaelogical artifacts by now that have been fully 3d scanned and photographed from a large amount of angles. It can even be done on the cheap, if you don't care about complete accuracy of game pieces Rail Baron is a sort of okay AH game from the 70s that has nostalgic value for me, and has been out of print for decades- it's not insanely inaccessible, unopened boxes go on ebay for $100-200- but it's also pretty easy to recreate, without even getting into 3d printing. The pieces are generic colored pawns and blank plastic chits, and then scads of play money and railroad titles that can be printed to cardstock Same went for Diplomacy in the 90s before Hasbro did a reprint; I was working on a version painted onto plywood, using plastic toy soldiers and boats for pieces, when the reprint came out and I just got that instead. I'd wager lots of board games just need 2d printing with generic tokens to be playable again, even if you miss out on whatever cool custom pieces came with the game in the first place also digital preservation is being done widely by pirates, the complete .pkg for PT is out there
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Sep 11, 2019 21:21
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The Big Word posted:The biggest and most tragic casualty of expired licensing deals is Outrun Online Arcade. I'm glad I bought it on 360 when I had a chance but that game is still the most recent example of the particular niche it occupies and I miss it so bad. Horizon Chase Turbo is OK but it doesn't quite do it for me. Have you tried Slipstream? It's definitely more of an Outrun game than HCT is.
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Sep 11, 2019 21:34
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I have action figures of Armadon and Vertigo from Primal Rage.  (Vertigo is sitting on my desk staring at me right now. You can squeeze her neck to fill it up with water and then gleek it at people.)
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Sep 12, 2019 00:33
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packetmantis posted:I have action figures of Armadon and Vertigo from Primal Rage. I didn't even like Primal Rage the game, but no other video game at the time had action figures as high quality as these, and dinosaurs are awesome, so I got almost all of these as a kid. I still have Talon and Vertigo, and they live on my game shelves. I also still have most of those lovely Mortal Kombat and (even shittier) Street Fighter G.I. Joes. Zangief with a woman's torso and robot legs. 
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Sep 12, 2019 01:01
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Gann Jerrod posted:What do you think is the most outlandish sounding unlockable that actually worked? For me it’s probably Tofu from Resident Evil 2. Clearing the game 3 times with an A ranking to unlock a block of Tofu as a playable character sounds exactly like an EGM April Fool’s joke. I know I've brought this up before but it's still definitely relevant. When I was in middle school there was a kid who would spread a rumor that in order to get some of the monsters in that game you had to raise a Hopper -- an utterly unremarkable lemur-esque creature that was generally considered to be, in technical parlance, 'lovely' -- to Rank A in the tournament leagues, then wait until the autumn season. If you were lucky (or you saved at the end of the preceding month and kept reloading) the Hopper would dig up a hot spring on your ranch and unlock Undine and Siren-type (mermaids and fish) monsters... which I'm not sure actually sure you ever even saw during tournaments and might not even know exist to be unlocked. Again, Hoppers were not cool monsters and frustrating to raise, so as a middle school kid this sounded like a completely random thing that no other monster type ever required. Turned out to be true. Turned out there were also other bizarre ways to unlock monsters-- you had to let one die and upgrade their grave twice in order to eventually unlock the Ghost monster, it was possible through other obscure requirements to be visited by aliens a number of times in order to unlock the Henger (an alien robot monster). Perhaps the weirdest and most utterly impossible to stumble upon was one where you had to raise a Worm-type monster to four years of age (which was pretty difficult if you didn't know how to properly preserve monsters and didn't have access to life-extending fruits; most monsters only lasted between two and a half to three years under a 'regular' training regimine), keeping it at minimal stress but high loyalty, never raised its rank beyond C class (which is honestly the main reason nobody would ever just stumble upon this, the entire point of the game is raising your monster ranking and raising one for four years and only being C class is absurd), and feeding it thirty of a particular (and expensive, especially for keeping your monster relegated to C-rank or lower fights) luxury item over the course of its life. It would then enter metamorphosis and emerge as either a different type of Worm-hybrid monster, or a completely different species-- which, again, is a monster type I don't recall ever even seeing during matches and therefore would never even think to unlock. And I certainly wouldn't think to force-feed a lazy old Worm Cup Jellies to do so. The original Monster Rancher also had some unique requirements, although the one I remember most was the Scribble and Doodle monsters. You had to raise a Monol -- think 2001's monolith except literally that's it, it's just a big black obelisk -- up to a particular Fame threshold in the tournament circuit, then intentionally tank its Fame (which is not an obvious process and not something a player would ever naturally manage), which would apparently cause its former fans to become so angry they would graffiti over your monster and turn it from a pure-breed Monol into a Scribble. Take that Scribble and combine it with another monster and the graffiti image would somehow come to life and become a completely separate monster called a Doodle (or, apparently, there was also an extremely low chance of it transforming into a Sketch instead-- which was a Doodle but wearing glasses.) This was the kind of esoteric nonsense that I really do miss from games in this era. They're obscure, weird, not necessarily difficult but definitely not intuitive, and there's nothing anywhere in the game that encourages you to strive for 100% completion (beat the big tournament scenes, raise cool monsters, the end) so not being able to figure it out didn't really have a significant impact on your enjoyment, and data-mining didn't exist so stumbling on this information -- whether you accidentally found it yourself or you ran across a small community where the person who found the unlock couldn't even be completely sure of what they did -- had a sense of mystique and uncertainty. I sure as hell didn't believe the kid in the schoolyard until years later when, yep, there's a Hopper digging up a hot spring.
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Sep 12, 2019 19:38
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Sleeveless posted:Sorry dude, a guy who was already years overdue and hugely over-budget on a game putting his team even further behind and in the hole to make a free product so he could pal around with Norman Rheedus for a day was not a sound financial or managerial decision no matter how much of a weird parasocial relationship you have with the guy doing it. But he made a decision they didn't agree with so clearly they should've been fired permanently and almost all of his VERY hard work on a "demo" that was ACTUALLY completely unique and not going to be part of Slient Hills at all should be deleted permentally with no chance for people to try it out at all. Also imagine thinking that canceling a project that involved Guillermo del Toro was a good idea in any way shape or form that isn't logical to anyone with more than a single brain cell, what the hell.
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Sep 12, 2019 23:56
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Peanut Butler posted:also digital preservation is being done widely by pirates Indeed! Much like how some of the lost old episodes of tv poo poo ended up being recovered from people's old home tapes. Is there interest in a thread on old games and game preservation?
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Sep 13, 2019 00:19
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TheNamedSavior posted:
Tbh he's gotten screwed a lot, companies keep self owning
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Sep 13, 2019 00:27
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drat monster rancher had some weird poo poo going on
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Sep 13, 2019 00:28
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Consummate Professional posted:drat monster rancher had some weird poo poo going on And that's just the stuff done "in game". You got most of your monsters by swapping a CD in, which the game would read, and then spit out a monster once you put the game disc back in. There were a fair few monsters in the first two games you could only get with certain CDs.
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Sep 13, 2019 00:32
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Zamujasa posted:Indeed! Much like how some of the lost old episodes of tv poo poo ended up being recovered from people's old home tapes. I'd be interested, though I can't say I'd have much to contribute beyond appreciation.
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Sep 13, 2019 02:03
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Zamujasa posted:Indeed! Much like how some of the lost old episodes of tv poo poo ended up being recovered from people's old home tapes. I'd like that very much.
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Sep 13, 2019 02:08
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Zamujasa posted:Is there interest in a thread on old games and game preservation?
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Sep 13, 2019 02:08
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Pomp posted:Tbh he's gotten screwed a lot, companies keep self owning Honestly we all should have expected something like this the second he was attached.
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Sep 13, 2019 04:08
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The Monster Rancher shenanigans remind me of the crazy poo poo you had to do to get some of the digimon in Digimon World. Basically, the game is a weird mix of rpg and Tamagotchi of all things, you raise your Digimon doing training, feeding it and making it go to the potty (No kidding, if you didn't find one in time your digimon will just poo poo straight on the ground, and that poop will stick around for the rest of the game as a sad reminder). The general loop is that you get a baby digimon, train it up as it does it's digivolving into stronger ones until you can go out and fight other digimon to convince them to come back to the game's main hub, making that town grow and adding or upgrading the facilities there. Eventually your partner will hit the end of their lifetime and will give an egg that gives you a new one to train. What made the game especially fascinating to me was that there were a lot of digimon and all of them had their own requirements to get. There were like five stages (Wanna say they were something like Baby, some I don't remember, Rookie, Champion and Ultra) that they go through and each time they are ready to get to the next stage the game checks their stats and sees what requirements they meet. The fact that only some digimon can evolve into others and that some requirements could be very strict (gently caress any weight related ones early on when you don't have access to food that increase the weight more than the digimon will poo poo out : and you basically needed a FAQ to plan out how to get the one you want. However, for the longest time there were three digimon that were unknown to anybody how to get, Megaseadramon, Hercules-Kabuterimon and... some other I forgot People have been trying to get those but no one was entirely sure what was needed to evolve them.Cue our forums own Orange Fluffy Sheep's LP. In his quest to finally get a Hercules-Kabuterimon he even ended up enlisting help to look directly into what values the game checks during evolving and finally found out what the needed requirements were. There were the usual high stats, a kinda high weight requirement and doing zero care mistakes (read: never make it poo poo on the road) but the odd one that caused people to never get it was the requirement to not fight a single battle. Which if you know that you need it is entirely possible, but most people will probably end up doing a couple as they either explore with their digimon a bit between training, try to go somewhere to get certain drops, etc. And as it turns out, the requirement to not do a single battle was what the other two needed as well. A weirdass secret in a old PS1 game finally solved on our very own forums. (Or at least, that is the way I remember it. It really was a while ago, though I did quickly check the LPArchive to make sure I am not getting it completely wrong).
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Sep 13, 2019 07:27
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Zamujasa posted:Indeed! Much like how some of the lost old episodes of tv poo poo ended up being recovered from people's old home tapes. I'd read the gently caress outta that thread.
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Sep 13, 2019 07:37
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Greader posted:And as it turns out, the requirement to not do a single battle was what the other two needed as well. A weirdass secret in a old PS1 game finally solved on our very own forums. (Or at least, that is the way I remember it. It really was a while ago, though I did quickly check the LPArchive to make sure I am not getting it completely wrong). Unfortunately the methods were never too crazy, since the range of requirements (other than 'never battle' ) was actually pretty well understood; stats in a certain range, below or above weight, care mistakes, battles fought, attacks known. There were only a couple of particularly weird ones -- Kunemon required you to take a Rookie and put them to sleep on a screen called Kunemon's Bed, which had a 50% chance of metamorphosing them into a Kunemon themselves, and if your Rookie lost one of their lives there was about a 50% chance of them digivolving into the Ghost Digimon Bakemon immediately -- but as far as I know nobody on forums or anything extrapolated other crazy ideas. Related, but there were also rumors of being able to get a number of other Digimon that were popular in the anime but inexplicably absent in the game, most notably WereGarurumon and MetalEtemon. When people finally went combing through the data years later they unearthed special Digivolution items -- consumables you could feed to your lower-level Digimon to force them to evolve to the next stage -- that actually would unlock these Digimon. There were a few different items out there for unused Ultimates, but I think only WereGarurumon and Etemon actually had models and finished animations in the game, and the items they were attached to weren't actually activated so you had to change your partner ID in the code manually. I expect they didn't have any defined movesets since they were never finished, so they were probably also game crashers if you got into battle. Of course, the NTSC release of World was so buggy you probably wouldn't notice a difference. I never really heard a lot of particularly crazy rumors about how to get Digimon or their recruitment requirements, unfortunately, probably because the actual requirements were so obscure or dumb making up rumors could never live up to the real thing. You had to check bulletin boards in the middle of nowhere to activate a flag where an unrelated Digimon would then give you an impossible to discern hint about a recruitment opportunity, you had to rely on a very fussy random number generation to get some Digimon to appear (Vademon leaving crop circles was infamously frustrating), you had to take your Digimon up to the arctic region and let them die of illness, you had to raise one of the poo poo-tier failure Digimon and have it accompany you to an area at the far end of the map in order to get it to possess a bear costume which would subsequently just hang dead in the background of the mayor's house... I had a personal mystery regarding a room located in the basement of the Spooky Mansion Area. I never actually got their myself, but the official guide said there was a very mysterious note next to a door you could never enter, and I always wondered what was up with that. Years later I would find that the door you can't enter is inaccessible not because it's a mystery, but because the atrocious NTSC coding of the game resulted in a dialogue string not terminating properly and just drifting off into the rest of the code, crashing the game when you tried to go into the room. (Script termination was a terminal problem with the game, ranging from just silly name rendering errors to the jukebox being a nuke button for your play session; these issues were fixed for the PAL release but holy poo poo the original NTSC version. Holy poo poo.) Given that the room itself was part of a mad scientist's laboratory and related to a quest involving both a vampire and a demonic skull-dragon my imagination ran wild about what was behind this mysteriously closed-off room. ...turned out was just a screen from earlier in the quest that you never needed to revisit. This is the best possible outcome since it doesn't actually lock you out of anything, but it was a terribly boring answer to a question I'd had for so long.
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Sep 14, 2019 03:59
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Monochromon's store minigame being beatable is the real hoax from Digimon World.
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Sep 23, 2019 21:49
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So playing the Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening remake reminded me just how much I freaking loved that game and how it had a vaguely creepy atmosphere. Like, that game, right from the get-go the game really made you feel like you didn't belong there, a feeling that only increases as the game goes along, and which, combined with the fact that there's some pretty heavy textual evidence that Link isn't exactly the hero of the piece, it's just... So good.
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