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SweetBro posted:Like Star Trek: Voyager could have been literally the same exact show if it was an actual sailing ship that got sucked into a magical whirlpool to the other side of the planet and they had to sail back. There is coffee in that enchanted forest!
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Sep 9, 2019 15:08
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I know it won’t fix the “sci-fi that’s too much like fantasy” problem but I’m a bit surprised there never ended up being a 40k MMO. What ever happened with that?
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Sep 9, 2019 15:14
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Kaysette posted:I know it won’t fix the “sci-fi that’s too much like fantasy” problem but I’m a bit surprised there never ended up being a 40k MMO. What ever happened with that? Games Workshop bad
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Sep 9, 2019 15:38
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Clearly I was wrong. They are the same genre, I am sorry for the derail.
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Sep 9, 2019 16:06
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Xun posted:Games Workshop bad I don't think it's this cause Games Workshop clearly licenses their IP out to anyone. It's more likely that no one feels there's an convincing MMO that could be made out of Warhammer 40K. An MMO for Warhammer Fantasy barely worked.
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Sep 9, 2019 16:11
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I said come in! posted:I don't think it's this cause Games Workshop clearly licenses their IP out to anyone. It's more likely that no one feels there's an convincing MMO that could be made out of Warhammer 40K. An MMO for Warhammer Fantasy barely worked. I looked it up and here’s what happened: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000:_Dark_Millennium
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Sep 9, 2019 16:18
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Glenn Quebec posted:Why would I say "yeah that" when I fundamentally disagree that the two genres are the same. Because I was wondering why you disagree, and offered a seeming example, which you ignored, only to repeat that very statement back to me? This is what we did You: They're not the same Me: Why? Because one is horror and the other is adventure? You: No. Because one is horror and the other is adventure.  Why would you say "yeah that" ?? Because I suggested the reason you gave. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm incapable of understanding other viewpoints. Furthermore, I actually agree with you in that way. Horror and Adventure are very very different! But that's the point. Sci-fi horror and fantasy horror would be more alike to each other than sci-fi horror and sci-fi adventure would be. 
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Sep 9, 2019 16:49
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For Warhammer 40,000, I think all fans really truly want is for the table top game to be accurately converted into a PC game, with all races and factions. This will obviously never happen because Games Workshop is afraid that would destroy their paint and miniature business model, which is the core of their identity. Plus the rules are insanely complicated, and without a lot of money to be pumped into the presentation, and making sure there are no bugs that break the gameplay, it just wouldn't work.
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Sep 9, 2019 20:54
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I said come in! posted:For Warhammer 40,000, I think all fans really truly want is for the table top game to be accurately converted into a PC game, with all races and factions. This will obviously never happen because Games Workshop is afraid that would destroy their paint and miniature business model, which is the core of their identity. Plus the rules are insanely complicated, and without a lot of money to be pumped into the presentation, and making sure there are no bugs that break the gameplay, it just wouldn't work. Nah, the rules are no more complicated than your average RTS or RPG. Magic Online is waaay more complicated, and that works. But as you say, GW is terrified of the IP competing with itself. They could have had the warcraft license paying them dividends to this day.
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Sep 9, 2019 20:58
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Vilgefartz posted:archeage is being re-released so im gonna give it a whack as i skipped it entirely the first time around. Looks super fun. As someone who played Archeage, it was 90% tedious grind and 10% really unique fun. The thing that made it worth playing too me was going around with goons in boats loving people up at sea, stealing loot, and then parading into town with it. The ship combat is something I haven't seen in other MMOs, and its really interesting. I really want a game that focuses mostly on that. But Archage isn't that game. Most of the time you just have to do that grindy bullshit, and unlike in most MMOs that grindy bullshit doesn't even lead anywhere satisfying. Cause the satisfying part of Archeage is building up a home with all the spoils of your exploits, but there's nowhere to build your goddamn house. You'll be lucky to get a tiny plot of land you can plant crops on. You can forget about making an actual place to live unless you happened to be one of the people who could endlessly play the game until they secured a patch of land. So I dunno. It could be fun, it could also suck. Either way I'd hope the goon guild wouldn't loving implode due to pedophiles and fishing again.
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Sep 10, 2019 03:57
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Internet Kraken posted:As someone who played Archeage, it was 90% tedious grind and 10% really unique fun. The thing that made it worth playing too me was going around with goons in boats loving people up at sea, stealing loot, and then parading into town with it. The ship combat is something I haven't seen in other MMOs, and its really interesting. I really want a game that focuses mostly on that. To add on, as far as tab targeting gear-based PVP goes, I don't think I've ever had a better time. Boats and gliders, weird combos, fairly unique spells, very fluid movement, mmm. Just so good. For the first few months, at least. Then you had to keep pushing higher gear with unforgiving RNG that would take your expensive piece of armor and have a 1% chance to upgrade it and like a 5% chance to destroy it and a 94% chance to do nothing. Or something, I don't know, I just remember actually doing it and hating myself because three of my pink armor pieces were destroyed by a poo poo mechanic. ... But I'm gonna play it again.  The changes and lack of labor pots will hoooopefully draw out that fun period where you're fine in gold armor and below. Degs fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Sep 10, 2019 |
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Sep 10, 2019 06:00
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Good luck playing Archeage without teleporting invulnerable hackers since it's all client side authenticaiton. Unless that's what you specifically want to do of course, in which case Godspeed.
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Sep 10, 2019 13:38
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games workshop is dumb as hell because they should've got someone to make a battlefront: warhammer 40k. that poo poo'd print money.
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Sep 10, 2019 13:56
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Groovelord Neato posted:games workshop is dumb as hell because they should've got someone to make a battlefront: warhammer 40k. that poo poo'd print money. Eternal Crusade exists and is terrible. It was originally meant to be a large open world competitive game but they didn't get the funding so it ended up being a clunky team deathmatch. I played a couple games in alpha and went "gently caress I wasted my money" and never went back. Had it been an actual good product then it probably would have done a lot better.
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Sep 10, 2019 14:16
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battlefront games are first person shooters.
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Sep 10, 2019 14:39
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The original star wars battlefront games (the good ones) were definitely 3rd person. Not my video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMAf0iVDPp8
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Sep 10, 2019 14:50
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Battlefront is unique in that even the EA Games ones lets you choose either first or 3rd person at anytime.
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Sep 10, 2019 14:57
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DancingShade posted:The original star wars battlefront games (the good ones) were definitely 3rd person. only weirdos played like that - the default is first person (at least on PC) when you're not in vehicles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCmiLDJlqoI&t=1652s
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Sep 10, 2019 15:02
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Groovelord Neato posted:only weirdos played like that Turn on your monitor.
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Sep 10, 2019 15:04
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Caravan Stories is available now on PS4.
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Sep 10, 2019 16:39
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the worst part of launch Archeage: hasla grinding the best part of launch Archeage: destroying people with your sick hasla bow
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Sep 10, 2019 20:11
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I'm holding on to hope Google or one of the other tech giants is going to dump a lot of money in a revolutionary MMO to drive Stadia or one of the other game streaming businesses. Seems to me that game streaming would be ideal for a MMO as all the physics and geometry processing is done locally on a server farm perfectly in sync with the user only receiving a "video feed" of the events. This presumably would allow very complex world events and dense player populations. I'm sure there are other advantages I haven't even thought of too. More than any other genre, MMOs seem to me to have the most potential benefit from the streaming model.
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Sep 11, 2019 02:25
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Amazon is making a Middle-Earth MMORPG, so there is that, but so far their game studio has been a dumpster fire with only failed projects.
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Sep 11, 2019 05:28
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eonwe posted:lol wow classic is still somehow the best mmo 15 years later I think I have a fairly unique perspective to this because I never played wow back when it was new and big, but I did play a ton of wow killers that came after it, and then some newer MMOs that were supposed to fix problems in the genre. I think I still much prefer Classic WoW. It turns out all the devs that made WoW killers had no clue what actually made WoW good The good elements in WoW: - Leveling PvE isn't easy and it gear checks you a lot (for non-magic classes at least) which creates an incentive to stay well geared throughout leveling. This makes leveling dungeons worth doing, professions worth leveling, and it actually feels good to find new gear instead of the "whatever" you feel in other MMOs - World PvP is always there and is occasionally harsh. Contested zones actually push opposing players together. This actually makes PvE interesting because there's always an element of unknown danger to it, and it motivates you to get stronger to get back at all the scumbags that ganked you earlier - Classes feel unique and powerful. Every class has something that feels overpowered, but every class has weaknesses as well. The end result is that everyone feels strong, as long as they're playing the game on their own grounds. The game feels a bit imbalanced too, but mostly in a benign way (since everyone still has a niche) - Similarly, all the classes have something they provide that no other class can provide, like rogues with their lockpicking, mages with their free drinks and druids with their combat res and so on. This helps everyone feel useful and no one really feels like a bad version of some other class Instead the WoW killers stripped most of this poo poo away (and retail wow probably did too, I don't know): - Leveling PvE is piss easy because someone might get mad that the game is hard. As a result, no one gives a gently caress about gear, or really anything, until level cap which is when the real game starts - World PvP is usually either not there at all or it is neutered. Or opposing players are kept far away from each other. The world feels less interesting as a consequence and there is less incentive to keep leveling - Classes are homogenized and toned down in an attempt to be more balanced and streamlined. The end result is that no one gives a gently caress about their class identity and any possible imbalance between the classes is exacerbated since there are very few niches between them. If all the DPS classes can only do DPS, then why wouldn't you just play the class that deals the most DPS? Instead, what remained in most WoW killers was all the tedious, annoying poo poo, like tab targeting combat, big rear end worlds with way too much walking, lazy quest design from the 20th century, days upon days of grinding and so on I think the problem with MMOs is the fact that the word has become synonymous with all the stereotypical bad aspects of MMOs. Normal people don't like MMOs anymore because they associate the word with some kind of subscription model or p2w, tons of grinding, dogshit combat, gameplay for skinnerbox babies and an endless loot treadmill. No one but diehard MMO fans like MMOs anymore, and these same people refuse to accept an MMO that does away with any of the aforementioned mechanics, which is why none of that poo poo will ever go away until either all the MMO fans die or the genre dies. I've suggested the possibility of an MMORPG without "numbers go biger forever" gameplay to some MMO fans I know and the look I got was a mixture of contempt and confusion. Anyway I hope MMOs die soon
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Sep 11, 2019 06:55
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Now try Everquest  Minorkos posted:(and retail wow probably did too, I don't know) Narrator: It did Minorkos posted:I've suggested the possibility of an MMORPG without "numbers go biger forever" gameplay to some MMO fans I know and the look I got was a mixture of contempt and confusion. Anyway I hope MMOs die soon Strong agree that levels are a design crutch and should be done away with. I think wow is almost there, they've functionally replaced levels but still have them vestigially. Course levels are just one "numbers go bigger" they still have stats, but I think some of that is okay. Still, side-grades and new abilities are way more fun and meaningful. Like I think Sekiro is generally better than Souls because it does away with most of the numbers. The only complaint I have there is it abandons build diversity to make the game so streamlined and pure. If you could somehow still have character builds for replayability but not have any numbers, that'd be amazing. I think its possible, with like, different types of skill slots and whatnot. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Sep 11, 2019 |
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Sep 11, 2019 07:03
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Zaphod42 posted:Strong agree that levels are a design crutch and should be done away with. I think wow is almost there, they've functionally replaced levels but still have them vestigially. I think levels and numbers are fine up to a point. I think Dark Souls strikes the perfect balance between numbers and gameplay since a skilled player with a level 1 character can beat the entire game, but he's going to have a very hard time doing so. I didn't care much for Sekiro because having that build diversity is probably 50% of the reason I even like Dark Souls. I'm also a PvP sperg and Sekiro doesn't have any. Anyway yeah the numbers gameplay is bad when that's all there is. The whole point in most MMORGPs is to get bigger numbers through largely tedious gameplay in order to get even biggerer numbers later. There is no designed hard-cap for the numbers like Dark Souls has. The numbers just keep growing forever. Obviously this is kinda bad because it eventually kills the game as we've seen with retail WoW. Raising the level cap with an expansion is especially the stupidest, laziest poo poo ever. It's kinda funny how it's 2019 and we've still yet to see a single successful non-skinnerbox MMORPG besides EVE online. It wouldn't even be hard to take EVE's model and make it playable for normal people. I actually have some ideas so if there are any MMO dev teams in the thread I can share them for a small consultation fee
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Sep 11, 2019 07:23
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Glenn Quebec posted:That was pretty good with the three different classes and like open warfare almost anywhere. The reboots went more and more carebear and died out. That game's community was so insular and inbreed it was totally loving dumb. They just hated new players. The police couldn't actually do it's job unless they had full consent, it was just so loving stupid.
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Sep 11, 2019 08:30
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Groovelord Neato posted:remember necron? it was sort of a deus ex mmo. man i tried every loving garbage mmo back in those days hoping to find the perfect one. Hell yeah. Neocron was german devs getting drunk after watching 1995 Judge Dredd and playing Deus Ex and then making an MMO.
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Sep 11, 2019 09:11
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Minorkos posted:The good elements in WoW: Not sure I'd call "lockpicking" or "conjuring food" class defining features, but the sentiment of each class brings some unique utility that greatly benefits the group is good design. It works real well in large scale pvp as well as pvm when the unique utility impacts combat in some way. I edited out world pvp because it's a mixed bag. It's definitely good fun when you have roughly equally leveled people or someone just passing through tries to chase you down. It's a poo poo tier time when you have 40 dudes roll up who can one shot you and you just can't get anything done that day as a result. Anyhow, I agree that I have some good memories of leveling world pvp and of max level world pvp in WoW and other games. Khorne fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Sep 11, 2019 |
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Sep 11, 2019 13:26
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Zaphod42 posted:Strong agree that levels are a design crutch and should be done away with. I think wow is almost there, they've functionally replaced levels but still have them vestigially. Counterpoint: Levels are extremely cool and good when the levels themselves don't actually give you anything except some points to spend. See: Diablo2, path of exile (extremely path of exile  ), ragnarok online, dungeons & dragons online, etc.Level ups in those things give you maybe some token hit points, and that's it. Everything else depends on what you do with the stat/skill points you're given. Letting people make their own builds is a nightmare from a balancing point of view, but as has been just established, a good balance isn't needed 99% of the time, it just needs to be good enough, and classes/builds should have some unique utilities.
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Sep 11, 2019 13:36
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I never played the Matrix Online MMORPG. Someone remake that but in HD so I can play it then complain about things like my leather jacket not reflecting the light correctly.
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Sep 11, 2019 13:59
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Getting rid of levels sounded like a daring and revolutionary idea but turned out to be one of the many reasons why Torchlight Frontiers is bad. Just the satisfaction of getting the next Ding is worth having levels for, which is why TLF ended up adding an XP bar and levels anyway, but tied to your changeable relic weapon, so it levels up in lieu of your character, but it's not a permanent metric that your character is gaining, so that progress feels disposable.
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Sep 11, 2019 14:18
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Khorne posted:I edited out world pvp because it's a mixed bag. It's definitely good fun when you have roughly equally leveled people or someone just passing through tries to chase you down. It's a poo poo tier time when you have 40 dudes roll up who can one shot you and you just can't get anything done that day as a result. Anyhow, I agree that I have some good memories of leveling world pvp and of max level world pvp in WoW and other games. I kinda agree in the sense that WoW wasn't perfect about it. I think the glancing blow system is dumb on principle and the whole "go into lower level zones and poo poo on people" should have been more disincentivized.
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Sep 11, 2019 14:23
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sad to hear new torchlight is bad. warcraft open world pvp is terrible for a simple reason: faction split. remove that, put in a karma system, suddenly open world pvp is good since now you need an actual reason to gank someone. even a reason of "i'm bored" or "because i can" is better than no reason at all, which is what faction split encourages.
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Sep 11, 2019 14:29
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Truga posted:sad to hear new torchlight is bad. Is there a thread for that? I haven't gotten in the alpha yet but it was on my radar of things to look forward to. What's bad about it? I know Perfect World was kind of a red flag for me...
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Sep 11, 2019 14:40
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dunno, Licam mentioned it, the only thing I've seen of the game so far is that gameplay trailer video thing like half a year ago.
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Sep 11, 2019 14:44
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RagnarokZ posted:That game's community was so insular and inbreed it was totally loving dumb. They just hated new players. This describes many game communities. I remember a while back the EVE community was bandying the idea of either giving new players a huge boost to skill point gain for a while, or just straight up having new characters start off with a big pot of skill points to assign however. The idea was to allow new characters to get going much faster, since they're in a universe with people who have playing for years. So many veteran players just lost their poo poo at this idea. It was endless barrage of "well I had to slog through the grind of SP learning, so why don't they?" and "am I going to get free skill points too?" and just general "they haven't earned it" sentiments. It's like lol do you loving want your game to die?
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Sep 11, 2019 15:47
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Chomp8645 posted:This describes many game communities. And on the flip side goons begged them to implement it
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Sep 11, 2019 16:07
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Gildiss posted:Hell yeah. Neocron was german devs getting drunk after watching 1995 Judge Dredd and playing Deus Ex and then making an MMO. And hey, you can play it today! https://www.neocron-game.com/ It's been a while since I played that version, but even then you could easily play it on a modern system in 1080p. They reworked and rewrote even more of the game since then, apparently.
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Sep 11, 2019 16:15
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Truga posted:sad to hear new torchlight is bad. Wow having a hard faction split is interesting. Its true to the lore and keeps sides separate, although that may build toxicity. EQ had good/evil races as factions, but only for NPCs! Players were free to make whatever parties or trades they want. Letting players group cross faction in wow would be interesting.
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Sep 11, 2019 16:26
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