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Kanine posted:I found a really interesting article about the 1973 Walpole Prison uprising, where prison guards said gently caress it and went on strike, and when the prisoners were left alone to run the prison, everything actually went super well. When they say “not a single outbreak of rape or murder occurred”, it sounds like “there were a few rapes and murders here and there”.
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Sep 3, 2019 03:13
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Ornamental Dingbat posted:My parents were prescient enough to rename me with an American-friendly name when we moved here instead of sending me to kindergarten as Hrafn. My last name is of German origin but was modified in the late 19th century, and is all consonants except for the last letter. Additionally the letters are in an order that is mystifying to people who speak basically any language. To top it off, there are only ten people who were born with my last name currently living, so to run across it would be super rare, which makes it even harder to pronounce because you just never see it.
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Sep 3, 2019 03:25
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Platystemon posted:When they say “not a single outbreak of rape or murder occurred”, it sounds like “there were a few rapes and murders here and there”. it's pretty much corroborated by every source i've been able to find, especially considering the people making that statement were outside observers
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Sep 3, 2019 04:12
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Kanine posted:it's pretty much corroborated by every source i've been able to find, especially considering the people making that statement were outside observers I’m just saying that the phrasing is bad. https://twitter.com/shutupmikeginn/status/403359911481839617
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Sep 3, 2019 04:27
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Platystemon posted:When they say “not a single outbreak of rape or murder occurred”, it sounds like “there were a few rapes and murders here and there”. Platystemon posted:I’m just saying that the phrasing is bad. No, it doesn't, and no, it isn't. It's a very common construct
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Sep 3, 2019 07:53
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If you see the headline “OUTBREAK OF RAPE IN SWINDON”, would you not think that there had been multiple rapes in the area?
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Sep 3, 2019 08:18
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And if someone told me my father was dead, I would think that my father were dead. Unless -- and this is the key part, it all revolves around this -- they added the word "not" in front of the word "dead". Which, to me, would change the meaning slightly
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Sep 3, 2019 08:26
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Adding words works both ways. If I say “there weren’t many rapes”, the literal meaning of that clause allows for there to have been none, but the presence of the word “many” strongly implies that that isn’t the case.
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Sep 3, 2019 08:31
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The literal construct of the phrase could technically be ambiguous, assuming that you were a linguistic archaeologist who was trying to reconstruct the English language 2000 years in the future by piecing together a few isolated phrases, of which this was one. But you're not, and what you're whinging about is a very common construct whose contextual meaning is absolutely unambiguous e: vv ok buddy you do you Sulla Faex has a new favorite as of 09:04 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 08:35
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I didn’t say it was ambiguous. I said that it was phrased badly. “I helped my Uncle Jack off a horse” isn’t even technically ambiguous, but if the double entendre isn’t intended, consider rewording the statement.
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Sep 3, 2019 08:58
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Platystemon posted:I didn’t say it was ambiguous. I said that it was phrased badly. It's a ludicrously common turn of phrase! Your argument is genuinely bizarre. In all honesty, is English your first language?
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Sep 3, 2019 09:07
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Barry Foster posted:It's a ludicrously common turn of phrase! Your argument is genuinely bizarre. “Outbreak of” is common enough. It’s used with words like “violence”, “war”, or “disease”. All of these things are ongoing concerns affecting multiple people. It is not used for single events. The word “OUTBREAK” wouldn’t be in the newspaper headline if there had been one crime and there was no reason to believe it would be followed by more. “Outbreak of 9/11” has six matches in the Google index. It’s also not common to negate the phrase. “Not a single outbreak" has eleven thousand thousand matches which are overwhelmingly about public health incidents. Compare that to “not a single case”, which has over three million matches. Within the field of public health, those two phrases have different meanings, so it makes sense that they would use the former. The Karen Wetterhahn incident was a case of dimethylmercury poisoning, but not an outbreak as happened in, say, Minamata.
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Sep 3, 2019 09:39
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The point of the quote is that the situation didn't become worse than what it had been under normal administration, and it's pretty much irrelevant to its accuracy if there actually were occurrences of murder / rape as long as they were within the expected trend. So yes, the quote may permit that there were instances of those crimes, but it doesn't take away from its meaning of validity.
steinrokkan has a new favorite as of 09:56 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 09:52
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I get what Platystemon is saying. "outbreak" certainly seems to imply multiple incidences. Still, it gets the point across.
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Sep 3, 2019 09:58
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The writer might have started with “not a single outbreak of violence” but discarded that as being untrue because there were known incidents of minor violence or simply unprovable because minor incidents wouldn’t be reported. My criticism of the phrasing is on a level with “isn’t it funny that the plumber’s van has scare quotes around ‘honest’?”, not “woe is me! I am in genuine confusion as to the intention of the author!” Perhaps this entire page could have been avoided with better phrasing by yours truly. Platystemon posted:When they say “not a single outbreak of rape or murder occurred”, the author unwittingly makes it sound like “there were a few rapes and murders here and there”.
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Sep 3, 2019 10:04
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Historical Fun Fact: ESL was a mistake
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Sep 3, 2019 13:17
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Platystemon are you just trying to be pedantic as some kind of gotcha against a situation where anarchist/leftist principles worked extremely well or like, are you just trying to be pedantic for the sake of being pedantic i wanna know you motivations here. cuz like, im not sure what's worse. Kanine has a new favorite as of 21:42 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 21:00
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To be honest, I agree with Platystemon. Saying "there were no outbreaks of X" is different from saying "there was no X at all". It's like saying "there were fewer than 5 deaths" instead of saying "there were no deaths". You usually wouldn't say the former if you meant the latter. Maybe this is some regional dialect thing though? Since evidently my opinion isn't shared by most of y'all.
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Sep 3, 2019 21:19
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I would read "outbreak" the same as "instance" or "incident" personally, it's just a more formal way of writing to add a collective noun. It makes sense in this case as "there were no rapes or murders" sounds pretty crude.
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Sep 3, 2019 21:41
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Plastymon is yanking your dicks and y'all are just following them around gladly lmao.
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Sep 4, 2019 16:46
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oh no he's taking money out of my hands, cash money
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Sep 5, 2019 08:06
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welp I'll come back to this thread in a day or two
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Sep 5, 2019 08:40
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there's been an outbreak of derails, i tell you
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Sep 5, 2019 08:49
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There has not been a single outbreak of derailing this entire time, just a few isolated derails here and there.
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Sep 5, 2019 09:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO2-YxWkRxk&t=4s
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Sep 5, 2019 11:06
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so I'm reading a book on the 30 Years War and in the geopolitical setup for the war it has this story as a throwaway passage: a lot going on in this short little passage here so let's walk through step by step: - The King of Denmark, in his capacity as Duke of Holstein, claims suzerainty over Hamburg and presumably wins a little war against the city - the burghers of Hamburg(Hamburghers?) respond by taking him to court - 15 years later, the court passes a judgment saying "hey King of Denmark gently caress off"(I guess the basis of the war was incorrect?) - He actually does it but responds by building a fortress near it in what I'm going to pretend is a remarkably petty move because it's funnier that way I actually just want to read more about this court case but I have no idea where I would find something about it
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Sep 5, 2019 13:14
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pretty impressive that you're reading it upside down edit: wow now i look dumb
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Sep 5, 2019 13:16
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my favourite historical fact is the one about John Henry being a steel drivin' man e: oh poo poo we've rerailed, my bad
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Sep 5, 2019 13:18
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Elyv posted:so I'm reading a book on the 30 Years War and in the geopolitical setup for the war it has this story as a throwaway passage: Basically the judgment of July 6, 1618 asserted that Hamburg was a Freie Reichsstadt (Free Imperial City), which Denmark didn't recognize it until 1769 (see Gottorper Vertrag). Idk any good books about it tho. Also imo it's a pretty classic move, levying tolls from further up/down some passage.
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Sep 5, 2019 13:44
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Oh I wouldn't want to read an entire book on it, just like a 5 page article or something. All that makes sense, especially the toll collecting. What would have happened if Christian had ignored the court?
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Sep 5, 2019 14:30
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War, most likely.
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Sep 5, 2019 14:51
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Elyv posted:What would have happened if Christian had ignored the court? The Reichskammergericht could have escalated the case and proclaimed an Imperial ban against Christian. This would have meant that (in theory) he would have ceased to exist as a legal subject within the Empire and that every subject of the Emperor was permitted to kill him with impunity, while also any supporters of his would be threatened with death. An Imperial ban was supposed to be executed by the local Imperial Circle, in this case the Lower Saxon Circle. I can’t say if that would have worked out in practice, however - an Imperial ban against Christian would have meant war against Denmark, and there were several powerful princes within the Lower Saxon Circle (like the Prince-Electors of Brandenburg, the Kings of Sweden and England, the Prince of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel, the Dukes of Mecklenburg and so on), none of which would probably have liked going to war against Denmark over Bremen.
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Sep 5, 2019 15:15
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Makes sense, thanks! Apparently the prospect was still enough to get Christian to back down though.
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Sep 6, 2019 02:43
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A giant wolf's head from the Pleistocene era was recently found in Siberia:
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Sep 11, 2019 18:15
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This too is a good dog.
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Sep 11, 2019 18:43
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thats awesome
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Sep 11, 2019 19:55
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Alhazred posted:A giant wolf's head from the Pleistocene era was recently found in Siberia: Cue the Bloodborne music
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Sep 12, 2019 03:11
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This is a portrait of Jacob de Gheyn III painted by Rembrandt in 1632: It has so far been stolen four times since 1966 and has become known as the "Takeaway Rembrandt".
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Sep 13, 2019 16:58
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I did not realise just how petite Queen Victoria was:
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Sep 13, 2019 17:45
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At one point her girth became bigger than her height.
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Sep 13, 2019 17:57
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