(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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tino posted:They want trump annex hk. pretty much this lol. they're so mad they have to be part of the people republic of china
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Sep 17, 2019 02:14
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HorseLord posted:has anyone figured out what the goal of the protests actually is Bloodnose posted:There are 5 clear, consistently repeated demands. One of them has been promised to be met. The rallying cry of the protesters is "five demands, not one fewer" so that means there's four more to go. Most important goal is the independent commission to look into the police, Carrie Lam's latest stunt was to add more people to the Independent Police Complaints Council, but they only look into complaints if you have the policeman's badge ID, which they never wear, and their record at handling complaints is absolutely abysmal. Many suspect the officers not wearing badges are secretly mainland 公安 which isn't too far fetched, they have wildly different standards in handling the arrest of protesters vs arresting pro-China triad thugs. Just this weekend had lots of footage of HKPF hugging and shaking hands with triads who were photographed brandishing meat cleavers moments prior, while a protester was arrested for possession of a deadly weapon when all he had was a plastic knife to cut a mooncake with.
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Sep 17, 2019 02:32
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cant decide whether that sounds better or worse than american police
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Sep 17, 2019 02:38
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Lady Galaga posted:Many suspect the officers not wearing badges are secretly mainland 公安 which isn't too far fetched, This still sounds hella far fetched to me. The Hong Kong Police are plenty happy to beat people down, arrest them, shoot tear gas at them, whatever. They don't need to bring in the secret mainland guys. Ministry of Public Security cops, the 公安 you mentioned, probably couldn't handle Hong Kong protesters, to be honest. There's a reason the CCP deploys the People's Armed Police, which is a unit of the military, when poo poo actually goes down on the mainland.
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Sep 17, 2019 05:39
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It's about as far fetched as triad cop collusion on July 21. HKPF compartmentalized so much that a squad of cops arriving from the mainland to handle protesters wouldn't easily be detected since no one is wearing badge numbers, and reports of cops using Mandarin and using stances taught differently from HKPF go unnoticed. Granted, the people they send over probably aren't your usual mallcop 公安, but it's real strange how the cops always have the numbers no matter how frequent the protests.
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Sep 17, 2019 05:49
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anyone have an opinion on Chen Min'er? local news keeps playing him up as a "rising star within the CPC" to play up Duterte's meeting with him yesterday
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Sep 17, 2019 06:05
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 mainlander cops!!!!seriously? lmao
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Sep 17, 2019 06:15
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Darkman Fanpage posted:
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Sep 17, 2019 06:21
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gradenko_2000 posted:anyone have an opinion on Chen Min'er? local news keeps playing him up as a "rising star within the CPC" to play up Duterte's meeting with him yesterday I think he was supposed to be one of the favorites to get on the Politburo Standing Committee last time around and then, uh, didn't. The succession process around Eternal President Xi is even more opaque than it would normally be so who knows where he'll be in 5/10 years, but he's definitely not high profile at the moment.
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Sep 17, 2019 06:29
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Darkman Fanpage posted:
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Sep 17, 2019 07:01
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i'm notably not one of the people itt claiming the cia had anything to do with the hk protests. us state department though... 
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Sep 17, 2019 07:05
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why do you think it's more likely that the diplomatic service is involved than an intelligence service?
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Sep 17, 2019 07:08
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oh i was making a joke about the diplomat meeting with protest representatives. ultimately it doesnt really matter. its not like this is something that occurred at the behest of the us. its an organic movement, but the us certainly has an interest in keeping it going and amplifying its message for no other reason than to embarrass china. that said i doubt hk plays a great strategic role in american policy planning beyond a place to be a nuisance.
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Sep 17, 2019 07:17
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I have heard a much more convincing theory of infiltration of the HK police by the mainland apparatus. As you know the British got China to sign off on a 1C2S system stuff with British judges. I think this was a problem China didn't realize it a poisoned pill until close to handover. So what would CCP do in this situation is rebuild an undercover underground chain of command as if they are operation in the enemy occupied territory. CCP did it for a long time, both after the first CCP-KMT split and during Japanese invasion, in major cities like GZ, SH, BJ etc. If you are lazy there is a Ang Li movie. Keep in mind this is a CCP chain of command, not a goverent one. CCP has plenty of times to recruit young college aged Cantonese who are immigrating to HK with their parents. Get them to join important HK civil service. And they get advanced in their careers much faster and soon get to the management roles. CCP can also recruit young and patriotic natives the similar way in HK universities. You join CCP secretly, and there is only your handler and a few points of contacts. You don't have a CCP card in your wallet and you don't go to weekly cadre meetings. CCP only trust the monopoly of violent. The party must control the army and the guns. In HK there is only PLA but not national guard or paramilitary police to call, so IMO CCP must have many people they can trust inside the police department. OTOH you can tell CCP don't have many people in the schools because they don't consider it critical governmental function. There was rumor of former chief exe Leung Chun-ying being a secret party member. I think these theories are convincing because they fit the CCP MO. CCP doesn't kill people with poisoned umbrella like Putin does, but they have their own tradition.
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Sep 17, 2019 07:51
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tino posted:There was rumor of former chief exe Leung Chun-ying being a secret party member. Hardly a rumor, dude was made vice-chairperson of the CCPCC before his tenure as CE was even done
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Sep 17, 2019 08:02
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everyone that disagrees with my newest take is a nazi
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Sep 17, 2019 08:18
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The Great Autismo! posted:my newest take is nazi 
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Sep 17, 2019 08:27
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whoa what are you doing here this is the sophisticated thread, tom, you shouldn't be quote mining in this thread, smh
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Sep 17, 2019 08:29
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What's your newest take, Nazi?
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Sep 17, 2019 09:14
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tino posted:Keep in mind this is a CCP chain of command, not a goverent one. CCP has plenty of times to recruit young college aged Cantonese who are immigrating to HK with their parents. Get them to join important HK civil service. And they get advanced in their careers much faster and soon get to the management roles. CCP can also recruit young and patriotic natives the similar way in HK universities. You join CCP secretly, and there is only your handler and a few points of contacts. You don't have a CCP card in your wallet and you don't go to weekly cadre meetings. I mean, this doesn't really seem that farfetched considering I believe there's still officially zero HK citizens who are (open and declared) members of the Chinese Communist Party. I know up until the handover that was definitely true, at least. But just lol if anyone thinks there are really no Hong Kong members of the CCP in TYOOL 2019.
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Sep 17, 2019 09:31
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https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1173887284866797569?s=19
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Sep 17, 2019 10:16
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? they have the right to protest if they wanted to, instead every weekend i see them chillin with their fellow peoples no matter where i go or maybe carl zha just has very bad opinions with his hot takes from whatever random SEA country he is taking a trip to (not HK tho, lol)
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Sep 17, 2019 10:22
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Hearty LOL at island-hopping bourgeoisie trust-fund surfer Carl Zha lecturing us on the nuances of class struggle in HK
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Sep 17, 2019 10:40
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Weird that Carl makes sure to pick out the quote that specifies that they're Cantonese... 🤔
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Sep 17, 2019 12:28
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Lady Galaga posted:they have the right to protest if they wanted to, instead every weekend i see them chillin with their fellow peoples no matter where i go McDonalds workers have the right to protest if they wanted to, instead every weekend I see them chillin with their fellow peoples no matter where I go.
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Sep 17, 2019 13:58
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Lady Galaga posted:they have the right to protest if they wanted to, instead every weekend i see them chillin with their fellow peoples no matter where i go as the preceding paragraph says: quote:It’s on weekends, especially Sunday, that all of Hong Kong’s – and turbo-capitalism’s – internal contradictions explode in Central. Filipina maids for decades have been staging an impromptu sit-in, a sort of benign Occupy Central in Tagalog with English subtitles, every Sunday; after all they have no public park to gather in on their only day off, so they take over the vault of HSBC and merrily picnic on the pavement in front of Prada boutiques.
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Sep 17, 2019 14:01
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Lady Galaga posted:they have the right to protest if they wanted to, instead every weekend i see them chillin with their fellow peoples no matter where i go little king rear end post lol
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Sep 17, 2019 14:39
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lol
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Sep 17, 2019 14:42
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if you think cops are mean to bougie university students just wait until you see how they treat the immigrant underclass!
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Sep 17, 2019 14:52
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Darkman Fanpage posted:if you think cops are mean to bougie university students just wait until you see how they treat the immigrant underclass! Regular China actually has an issue with this too tbh https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2029375/time-ripe-china-import-filipino-domestic-helpers a lot of wealthier homes and apartments in the mainland have semi-legal to illegal foreign domestic help. It's a bit like the mexico-us situation.
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Sep 17, 2019 15:02
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no poo poo i didnt say they didnt wealthy people around the world are poo poo
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Sep 17, 2019 15:11
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You mean a bunch of spoiled bourgeois-types think they should be above Chinese law while actual working class people respects the rule of law and support Communist Party? 
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Sep 17, 2019 16:38
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https://twitter.com/SixthTone/status/1173318092157521920
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Sep 17, 2019 16:44
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Darkman Fanpage posted:pretty much this lol. they're so mad they have to be part of the people republic of china It's like if silicone valley had a secessionist movement
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Sep 17, 2019 16:46
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Domestic helpers can and do gather in public parks all round Hong Kong, don't know what that reporter is talking about? Plus all the helpers I know think mainland China is a poo poo hole compared to HK, and there are plenty of Filipinos illegally employed as slaves there, where, being illegal, they have zero rights, unlike in HK, where they can in fact protest against abusive employers and low wages. Most importantly the firewall blocks Facebook which is what they all use to communicate with family. I knew a rich family in shenzhen who got an illegal helper, the helper ran away after getting her first pay cheque. The minimum wages for helpers in HK are stupidly low though, should be 7k a month and with a designated maximum number of hours work per day.
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Sep 17, 2019 17:08
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Rabelais D posted:Domestic helpers can and do gather in public parks all round Hong Kong, don't know what that reporter is talking about? Rabelais D posted:Plus all the helpers I know think mainland China is a poo poo hole compared to HK, and there are plenty of Filipinos illegally employed as slaves there, where, being illegal, they have zero rights, unlike in HK, where they can in fact protest against abusive employers and low wages. Most importantly the firewall blocks Facebook which is what they all use to communicate with family. Sure, they're better than in the mainland. But being better than an authoritarian state capitalist nightmare where unions are either illegal or fancy clubs for corporate executives in red hats is a low bar.
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Sep 17, 2019 21:10
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Not feeling a lot of confidence that Filipino domestic workers can go to the park, when the point is the nightmarish conditions that prevent them from taking any kind of political action.
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Sep 17, 2019 22:34
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This isn't a "hmmm I'm not so sure" situation. Just be in Hong Kong on literally any given Sunday and you will see them hanging out in the parks by the tens of thousands. I'm struggling to think of a comparison you might be more familiar with. Maybe a statement like "Americans mostly use private cars for transportation" if you're American. It's a statement that is instantly easily observable by anyone even casually glancing at the issue in question. But like, again, being able to go to a park and paint your nails with your friends once a week because the law requires you to leave the residence you work in doesn't mean you're not exploited. It's a bad system.
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Sep 17, 2019 22:42
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Not feeling a lot of confidence that Filipino domestic workers can go to the park, when the point is the nightmarish conditions that prevent them from taking any kind of political action. and their masters prevents them from escaping over the border to where their worker's rights and freedoms are much better protected like the mason-dixon line back in 1800s US
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Sep 17, 2019 22:46
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Typo posted:and their masters prevents them from escaping over the border to where their worker's rights and freedoms are much better protected like the mason-dixon line back in 1800s US Actually mainland China makes it prohibitively difficult for the helpers to go across the border; they can't just go and apply for a visa at the consulate, their employer needs to do it for them, it's both more difficult (more paperwork), more expensive and the restrictions are tighter. Helpers aren't all dreaming of escaping to the mainland dude, they by and large wish they could work in Canada, and they see HK as the 'stepping stone' to do so, although quite how that works I'm not sure. The Middle East is seen as the easiest, and worst (most easily exploited/lowest pay?) place to get work as a domestic helper. HK is a bit higher on the list but not by a great deal, as Bloodnose said, it's still pretty poo poo here for them; it's a bad system that needs reform.
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Sep 18, 2019 00:52
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