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fool_of_sound posted:Bernie is only a little better in this regard. His entire statement on it is pretty mealy-mouthed. I wouldn't hold it up as a strength. Bernie making inroads with groups to whom Palestenian genocide matter as an important issue raises his standing a bit, moreso in the moment than the past where he should have been more proactive, but it's still miles ahead of Warren avoiding places where she might get asked slightly tougher questions than a pundit before a debate stage. And you're going to have to explain the robustness of Warren's anti-corruption take when at the very least half of those proposals are going to get wiped out by a judiciary for which her only plan seems to be 'raise standards and accountability'.
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Sep 17, 2019 16:21
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Office Pig posted:And you're going to have to explain the robustness of Warren's anti-corruption take when at the very least half of those proposals are going to get wiped out by a judiciary for which her only plan seems to be 'raise standards and accountability'. I mean, Bernie's stated plan for the supreme court is almost assuredly unconstitutional, so the same applies to him. Warren's soft support for court packing is better than Bernie's hard no, even though I expect him to come around on it.
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Sep 17, 2019 16:26
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Groovelord Neato posted:i legitimately cannot grasp supporting warren over sanders. i can't grasp supporting the others either but i know those supporters are either stupid, uninformed, or monsters. warren supporters have their hearts in the right place most of the time. her support is entirely upper class educated white liberals. they prefer her because of cultural identification and tribalism that's it, ideology has little to do with it in some ways it's actually good, she isn't stealing Bernie's support, and she's a hell of a lot more progressive than Clinton was so even if Bernie loses to her his ideas are no longer unacceptable to Hillbots. Of course it might backfire, when she loses to Trump the donors will try to blame it on her left wing policies instead of her being untrustworthy in carrying them out, her inviting in corruption and taking bribes from the industries she's supposed to be regulating, and her being so awful at campaigning that Trump tricked her into not only taking a blood test that proves she's a fraud but releasing the results like she won. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Sep 17, 2019 |
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Sep 17, 2019 16:31
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HootTheOwl posted:Biden is still going to win and we're all going to die. That poll had a 6% margin of error, and that's not even getting into the fact that polls this early are basically just a 'which of these names have you heard of', where it's not strange that the guy who was VP for 8 years has a slight lead.
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Sep 17, 2019 16:36
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u brexit ukip it posted:That poll had a 6% margin of error, and that's not even getting into the fact that polls this early are basically just a 'which of these names have you heard of', where it's not strange that the guy who was VP for 8 years has a slight lead. Yeah, at this point in 2007 the 2008 election was gearing up for a showdown between Hillary Clinton and Rudy Giuliani.
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Sep 17, 2019 16:46
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Remember that the Biden campaign is already reportedly spending a whole fuckton more than anyone else just to keep their small lead at the moment, which means that they're not saving as much up for when the primaries kick off in earnest. Biden is still a threat, but he's very very vulnerable. Also dying.
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Sep 17, 2019 16:48
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EDIT: Sorry, you were talking 2008 i had 2016 numbers
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Sep 17, 2019 16:49
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Ornedan posted:The claim was NYC policies, except that was for if he wanted to get off the ballot without WFP cooperation. They offered to take him off the ballot, but he pretended that offer wasn't made and just blathered about not wanting to change his address to another state (where he actually lives anyway). New York state law that prevents someone from being replaced on the ballot once a party nominates them as their candidate, unless they die or are nominated to another race and then can be replaced. generally they do the latter and stick you in the smallest possible district, so no one sees this happening, but they also only really care about this in the gubernatorial race, since that's the one that controls automatic ballot access for all elections during the next cycle (you need 50,000 votes on your line to keep ballot access) VitalSigns posted:Nah this is all a lie. Cynthia Nixon still ended up on the WFP ballot in a New York assembly race and got creamed by like 82-18 against the incumbent though they really had to force her out of the nomination since no one wants a repeat of what happened to the NY Liberal Party
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Sep 17, 2019 16:51
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mediaphage posted:Yeah, at this point in 2007 the 2008 election was gearing up for a showdown between Hillary Clinton and Rudy Giuliani. Wow we really dodged a bullet there avoiding President Giuliani
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Sep 17, 2019 16:55
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fool_of_sound posted:Remember that the Biden campaign is already reportedly spending a whole fuckton more than anyone else just to keep their small lead at the moment, which means that they're not saving as much up for when the primaries kick off in earnest. Biden is still a threat, but he's very very vulnerable. Also dying. yea Biden is gonna flame out soon, he's DEEP in the coffers, running low on donors, and all just to hold a rapidly shrinking lead months before the first early vote will even be cast.
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Sep 17, 2019 16:57
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OJ MIST 2 THE DICK posted:Cynthia Nixon still ended up on the WFP ballot in a New York assembly race and got creamed by like 82-18 against the incumbent No they didn't have to force her, in fact a faction of the WFP wanted her to stay on but she made it clear she wasn't interested. Anyway it's another Crowley lie that the WFP wasn't interested in getting him off the ballot, they explicitly asked him to sign the form to let them swap him out and he refused point-blank. They were really pissed about it and the national chair called him out for being a dickhole. quote:Crowley declined to vacate the WFP line, despite our requests, and so we're stuck with him on the ballot.
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Sep 17, 2019 17:01
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SKULL.GIF posted:If our movement was going to be destroyed by not-quite-the-right person becoming President then it wasn't going to succeed in the first place. I could not disagree with this more, any movement needs to have some handle on the mechanisms of power. Bernie Sanders is the only candidate that presents that opportunity at the highest levels of power. This is an opportunity mixed with timing that can't be wasted on anyone else.
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Sep 17, 2019 17:03
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Doctor Jeep posted:except one of the forks has fused tines and is loving useless That's a spoon.
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Sep 17, 2019 17:08
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quote:Many people cite the fact that Bernie is a “movement guy” and Warren is a “wonk,” but that is more a matter of presentation. Both are strong supporters of organized labor; both want to attack climate change; both want to end mass incarceration and close the racial wealth gap and support abortion rights; both want to do as much as can be done to lessen the influence of money in politics, and make voting more meaningful. Bernie may have a better plan for health care; Warren may have a better plan for affordable housing; both of them, I believe, are existentially committed to turning around the growth of economic inequality, which is the biggest underlying issue that fuels many of the other issues that we talk about. Warren's housing plan is $500 billion of subsidies to the private real estate industry, while Sanders has suggested passing a national rent-control law and significantly expanding funding for public housing programs, paid for by a wealth tax on the top 0.1% - and that's just a teaser, since he hasn't released his full housing plan yet. I actually had to go check the date on this article to make sure it wasn't something from before Bernie started talking affordable housing. Similarly, both Warren and Sanders want to combat climate change. But Sanders wants to spend eight times as much on it, and has lots of extra details Warren opposes, such as public ownership of the expanded electricity generation built under the Green New Deal. Warren supporters seem to be relying more and more heavily on a narrative that Warren and Sanders are basically the same on policy, and that any differences are mere differences of style and presentation, so it shouldn't really matter which one you back. Unfortunately, that narrative has the deep flaw of not being true. And it signals deeper problems, too. If Sanders backers are saying "Bernie is better than Warren", but the best Warren backers can do is "Warren isn't worse than Sanders", then that's not a good sign for the candidate.
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Sep 17, 2019 17:17
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VitalSigns posted:No they didn't have to force her, in fact a faction of the WFP wanted her to stay on but she made it clear she wasn't interested. dude, they ran a dummy candidate in a general assembly race, forced that dude to run as a judge in a county supreme court so they could free the assembly race spot open to stick Nixon into it they were clearly leaving themselves a way to push her out so they didn't get hosed in the gubernatorial race there may have been a faction that wanted to keep her, but everyone else in the party was clearly trying not to get hosed over by losing their ballot access and Nixon recognized that also great job claiming something I never said, unless some how you conflate, "They didn't care as much about the house race as they did the gubernatorial race" with "They didn't try to get rid of Crowley" by linking an article that makes it clear that they cared much more about the gubernatorial race than the house race. OJ MIST 2 THE DICK fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Sep 17, 2019 |
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Sep 17, 2019 17:19
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OJ MIST 2 THE DICK posted:dude, they ran a dummy candidate in a general assembly race, forced that dude to run as a judge in a county supreme court so they could free the assembly race spot open to stick Nixon into it I think we're talking past each other. When you said "they had to force her off" I thought you meant "she had to be pressured to leave" and not "it was critical that they take advantage of loopholes in NYC's stupid ballot law to ensure they could get her off". In the latter sense yeah she had to be "forced" off bc of stupid laws, but in the former sense she affirmatively wanted them to remove her. It was very very weird that Crowley just said no. Re: Crowley I agree it was obviously more important for the WFP to replace Nixon, I was just clarifying that they most certainly did ask Crowley to agree to vacate the ballot and he refused. I didn't say you were lying about it, I said he was lying about not being asked.
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Sep 17, 2019 17:31
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Main Paineframe posted:Warren's housing plan is $500 billion of subsidies to the private real estate industry, while Sanders has suggested passing a national rent-control law and significantly expanding funding for public housing programs, paid for by a wealth tax on the top 0.1% - and that's just a teaser, since he hasn't released his full housing plan yet. I actually had to go check the date on this article to make sure it wasn't something from before Bernie started talking affordable housing. Sure her plan might seem worse now, but when Warren's plan is saving you $60/month in ten years who'll be laughing then? The landlords. It'll be the landlords who are laughing.
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Sep 17, 2019 17:35
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fool_of_sound posted:Bernie is only a little better in this regard. His entire statement on it is pretty mealy-mouthed. I wouldn't hold it up as a strength. Bernie is far from good (he should endorse BDS), but he is far, far better than Warren. Warren signed an AIPAC letter against the Obama administration and defended their targeting of schools and hospitals. That makes her substantially worse than Bernie.
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Sep 17, 2019 17:42
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joepinetree posted:Warren signed an AIPAC letter against the Obama administration and defended their targeting of schools and hospitals. Oh yikes, I hadn't heard about that one.
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Sep 17, 2019 17:46
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sexpig by night posted:yea Biden is gonna flame out soon ...says increasingly nervous man.
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Sep 17, 2019 18:07
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HootTheOwl posted:...says increasingly nervous man. Lol ok
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Sep 17, 2019 18:10
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How many times has the demize of Biden been foretold by this thread? And yet, still he sits atop the polls.
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Sep 17, 2019 18:12
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HootTheOwl posted:How many times has the demize of Biden been foretold by this thread? And yet, still he sits atop the polls. A single digit lead and a months-long downtrend in the polls is uh not exactly some kind of super safe perch to be bragging about, my friend 
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Sep 17, 2019 18:15
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HootTheOwl posted:How many times has the demize of Biden been foretold by this thread? And yet, still he sits atop the polls. The polls are meaningless. No real change to the horserace narrative even happens until around January when the real campaigning begins.
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Sep 17, 2019 18:16
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HootTheOwl posted:How many times has the demize of Biden been foretold by this thread? And yet, still he sits atop the polls. He's physically disintegrating before our eyes.
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Sep 17, 2019 18:18
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The reason "says increasingly nervous man" was a funny burn in 2016 was because people kept saying the end was near even as Trump's numbers went up and up and up. It doesn't work when your campaign is floundering and your numbers are dropping month by month
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Sep 17, 2019 18:18
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This is a very dumb article. The author seems to just blindly assert that changes to the tax code are just as effective a tool at fighting the rich as actual political/labor movements, and completely ignores the role of the politicians' histories in judging how good or reliable they'd be. It also just handwaves aside the differences in the candidates' policies as "they're both better and worse with some things, so it's all a wash." It seems to just treat as an incontestable axiom that Warren shares the same beliefs and goals as Sanders. Main Paineframe posted:Warren supporters seem to be relying more and more heavily on a narrative that Warren and Sanders are basically the same on policy, and that any differences are mere differences of style and presentation, so it shouldn't really matter which one you back. Unfortunately, that narrative has the deep flaw of not being true. And it signals deeper problems, too. If Sanders backers are saying "Bernie is better than Warren", but the best Warren backers can do is "Warren isn't worse than Sanders", then that's not a good sign for the candidate. There's a certain irony to the side who supposedly values wonkiness/plans so much having to avoid any actual concrete discussion of the candidates' plans/policies in order to justify their choice. Like, I would have more respect if they just said "she just seems smarter to me," but that would put them in the difficult position of having to directly admit that they value their own subjective perception of the candidates' competence over the actual substantive differences between their plans and backgrounds.
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Sep 17, 2019 18:26
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at this point in the 2012 presidential primary perry was leading romney by 10 points. in 2008 guliani was leading mccain by 13 points (and mccain was in third - 8 points behind fred thompson).
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Sep 17, 2019 18:26
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Groovelord Neato posted:at this point in the 2012 presidential primary perry was leading romney by 10 points. What about the most recent example? You're missing 2016.
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Sep 17, 2019 18:32
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HootTheOwl posted:What about the most recent example? You're missing 2016. he'd already taken the lead at this point (he'd be tied with carson for a day or so in november). i was choosing people that started at the top when they announced and retained that lead for some time. when trump announced he was polling behind bush, rubio, carson, walker, paul, cruz, huckabee, and christie. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Sep 17, 2019 |
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Sep 17, 2019 18:34
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Lol Harris is toast https://twitter.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1173993155089391616?s=21
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Sep 17, 2019 18:42
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it's incredible how poorly mayor pete polls compared to how the media treats him. you'd think he was a frontrunner.
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Sep 17, 2019 18:43
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Yeah anyone who assumes as a given that Biden's numbers will continue to erode is making a big gamble. Trump had secured the lead by now in 2016 and he didn't have the full weight of the conservative media behind him at this point. Fox was still undecided between Trump, Carson, and Cruz. Whereas right now, the entire establishment media apparatus is squarely behind Biden. He's not a lock but he's also not doomed- not by a long shot. Honestly the best outcome would be for him to realize that he's physically not capable of campaigning, let alone governing for four years, and drop out without endorsing anyone. I doubt that will happen though, even with people close to him already telling him so.
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Sep 17, 2019 18:46
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FlamingLiberal posted:Lol Harris is toast Lol yang polling higher goddamn. I mean that's what you get when you promise to give away $120k to some lucky supporter, too, though.
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Sep 17, 2019 18:53
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The fact that Biden is continuing to collapse while the party apparatus is largely behind him is not exactly a testament to his chance of recovery.
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Sep 17, 2019 18:54
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https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1174007859136344064?s=19
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Sep 17, 2019 18:56
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sexpig by night posted:https://twitter.com/jtlarsen/status/1173721694231552000 Mayo Pete is such an obviously greedy ladder-climbing freak that even dumbshit white supremacists can tell that all they need to do to control him is get The Money to give him their orders.
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Sep 17, 2019 18:57
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FlamingLiberal posted:Lol Harris is toast I was going to question what you were talking about since that's where she's at in pretty much every poll but then I saw it was California.
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Sep 17, 2019 19:00
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crazy cloud posted:That's a spoon. god dammit analogies are hard
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Sep 17, 2019 19:13
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Idea to save the Harris campaign: regain Californian wine moms by going antivax
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Sep 17, 2019 19:25
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