(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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Don't you need to be Muslim to work as migrant worker in Middle East?
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Sep 18, 2019 01:00
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Bloodnose posted:This isn't a "hmmm I'm not so sure" situation. Just be in Hong Kong on literally any given Sunday and you will see them hanging out in the parks by the tens of thousands. Yeah, you're definitely missing the forest for the trees. The point of that excerpt isn't that Filipinos can't congregate in a park, the point is that they resent the fact that thee people they work for have enough time and resources to protest in favor of their own class interests while they themselves work for poverty wages and get only one day off a week. It's not possible for them to agitate for a political change the same way it is for "native" residents who have much more means. Saying Hong Kong is a "lovely system" is only the half of it. The protests have a particular class dynamic that informs their politics, and what they're willing to agitate for. Being able to elect a chief executive is supposedly a life or death struggle, but the plight of domestic workers is an afterthought. I'm not trying to imply that this is a problem particular to Hong Kong, because that's the political dynamic in every wealthy city. It's just endemic of how liberal priorities are completely hosed up. It's only possible to believe that liberal democracy is something worth fighting for when you're already well off.
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Sep 18, 2019 01:04
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Rabelais D posted:Actually mainland China makes it prohibitively difficult for the helpers to go across the border; they can't just go and apply for a visa at the consulate, their employer needs to do it for them, it's both more difficult (more paperwork), more expensive and the restrictions are tighter. id think if you were worried about getting trapped canada would be a much worse place for it to happen it because its much farther away anyone remember that story about some reporter whose filipino family brought a maid with them to the united states as he described how she was straight up living as a slave i really didnt get the impression from that story that location is all that important provided your employer is willing to be a sufficiently abusive rear end in a top hat well unless theyd just stayed in the phillipines maybe then she probably could have run away that part of the story really bugged me how he just glosses over her resisting the idea of going to the united states and requiring inevitably broken promises to agree to it she knew exactly how much danger she was putting herself in
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Sep 18, 2019 01:13
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People often imagine that First World countries are lands of freedom and opportunity because we want the world to think that way. The fact that places like the United States or Canada resent foreign elements and deny opportunities to immigrants intentionally never dawns on a lot of people until they see it for themselves.
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Sep 18, 2019 01:17
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Some Guy TT posted:
Yeah I remember that story. I think the maid was taken advantage of because she was an under educated person. I remember I thought the person who wrote that story and place all the blame on his/her parents was a douchebag too.
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Sep 18, 2019 01:30
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Not feeling a lot of confidence that Filipino domestic workers can go to the park, when the point is the nightmarish conditions that prevent them from taking any kind of political action. Lol have you ever been to Hong Kong in your loving life Cos I'm not feeling a lot of confidence in your posts
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Sep 18, 2019 01:37
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Domestic helpers aren't going to successfully lobby for political change, but neither have 2 million protesters That doesn't mean they can't go to a park, you absolute twat
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Sep 18, 2019 01:41
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tino posted:I have heard a much more convincing theory of infiltration of the HK police by the mainland apparatus. As you know the British got China to sign off on a 1C2S system stuff with British judges. I think this was a problem China didn't realize it a poisoned pill until close to handover. So what would CCP do in this situation is rebuild an undercover underground chain of command as if they are operation in the enemy occupied territory. CCP did it for a long time, both after the first CCP-KMT split and during Japanese invasion, in major cities like GZ, SH, BJ etc. If you are lazy there is a Ang Li movie. the british did the same thing it's called the comprador class
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Sep 18, 2019 02:21
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Lady Galaga posted:Domestic helpers aren't going to successfully lobby for political change, but neither have 2 million protesters Grab one of your expat buddies so he can brush you up on English. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 18, 2019 02:54
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Grab one of your expat buddies so he can brush you up on English. lol at the casual racism
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Sep 18, 2019 02:55
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Grab one of your expat buddies so he can brush you up on English. 
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Sep 18, 2019 02:58
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tino posted:Don't you need to be Muslim to work as migrant worker in Middle East? no that's just for work at holy sites like mecca.
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Sep 18, 2019 02:58
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Still didn't answer my question, comrade Pener Kropoopkin, have you actually ever been to Hong Kong?
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Sep 18, 2019 03:03
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It's not pertinent to anything we've been talking about. Saying Filipinos can go to the park is completely missing the point. It's not even "tankies" who posted that article, it was Asia Times for Christ's sake. You live in Hong Kong, so you should know it's a Hong Kong paper.
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Sep 18, 2019 03:11
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lamo at thinking that the Asia Times is a HK paper
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Sep 18, 2019 03:13
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:People often imagine that First World countries are lands of freedom and opportunity because we want the world to think that way. The fact that places like the United States or Canada resent foreign elements and deny opportunities to immigrants intentionally never dawns on a lot of people until they see it for themselves. This is already an illusion destroyed as more and more Westerners including ppl itt are already fleeing capitalism to china in search of leftist freedoms, opportunities and racial egalitarianism Typo has issued a correction as of 03:17 on Sep 18, 2019 |
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Sep 18, 2019 03:14
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Asia Times is correct about the material conditions of domestic workers and their resentment of their bosses, but they still go to the park. This thread gives Asia Times a rating of Four Pinnochios.
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Sep 18, 2019 03:19
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sincx has issued a correction as of 05:29 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Sep 18, 2019 03:24
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sincx posted:What's the over/under on the MTR derailment being sabotage? Yes
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Sep 18, 2019 03:27
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Some Guy TT posted:id think if you were worried about getting trapped canada would be a much worse place for it to happen it because its much farther away Correct, if you were trapped in China or even Hong Kong it's a short easily obtainable boat ride away back to the Philippines and if this is the mainland you would be freed from slave labor as soon as you contact a party activist or PLA "uncle". Pretty loving hard to paddle back from Canada to the Philippines and good luck getting bourgeois controlled police to free you lol since police in capitalist countries literally exist to enslave workers. Typo has issued a correction as of 03:30 on Sep 18, 2019 |
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Sep 18, 2019 03:27
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Grab one of your expat buddies so he can brush you up on English. we really gonna let this slide?
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Sep 18, 2019 03:28
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SKULL.GIF posted:we really gonna let this slide? while Pener Kropoopkin's post has the "form" of "slightly racist", the class content of the post is revolutionary and not racist
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Sep 18, 2019 03:29
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's not pertinent to anything we've been talking about. Saying Filipinos can go to the park is completely missing the point. It's not even "tankies" who posted that article, it was Asia Times for Christ's sake. You live in Hong Kong, so you should know it's a Hong Kong paper. idk why you want to die on this sword, but the viewpoint of one filipina isn't going to represent the rest of the filipino community in HK, and the plight of their working conditions aren't being ignored. Hong Kong Free Press has a category specifically to fight for their cause. But if the people who sympathize with them don't have any say in the running of the government then how are things supposed to change? Deflecting their issues onto the protesters isn't constructive, since they aren't the ones holding the domestic helpers back by not letting them have a political voice. The people that profit from exploiting them are. Pener Kropoopkin posted:Asia Times is correct about the material conditions of domestic workers and their resentment of their bosses, but they still go to the park. This thread gives Asia Times a rating of Four Pinnochios. You brought up the dumb parks argument in the first place?
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Sep 18, 2019 03:31
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SKULL.GIF posted:we really gonna let this slide? I was born in Scotland so English isn't really my forte. It's why I advocate for Scottish independence.
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Sep 18, 2019 03:32
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Lady Galaga posted:I was born in Scotland so English isn't really my forte. It's why I advocate for Scottish independence. Good news on that front, at least.
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Sep 18, 2019 03:35
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sincx posted:What's the over/under on the MTR derailment being sabotage? Amazingly, nobody died. The HK turmoil of 2019 seen to be a PG version of what a city under seige look like.
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Sep 18, 2019 03:37
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Lady Galaga posted:idk why you want to die on this sword, but the viewpoint of one filipina isn't going to represent the rest of the filipino community in HK, and the plight of their working conditions aren't being ignored. Hong Kong Free Press has a category specifically to fight for their cause. But if the people who sympathize with them don't have any say in the running of the government then how are things supposed to change? Deflecting their issues onto the protesters isn't constructive, since they aren't the ones holding the domestic helpers back by not letting them have a political voice. The people that profit from exploiting them are. HKFP having a migrant worker beat means jack diddly. Press attention doesn't automatically translate into any kind of political will to actually service their issues. The person quoted in that article wasn't even "deflecting their issues onto the protesters." She resents the protestors for their class power. quote:You brought up the dumb parks argument in the first place? nope, lmao. I didn't even dispute the parks.
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Sep 18, 2019 03:42
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Asia Times interviewing one maid is good, Hong Kong Free Press having a section dedicated to them is meaningless
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Sep 18, 2019 03:48
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The newest article on that section is literally interviewing one Filipina.
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Sep 18, 2019 03:50
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Lady Galaga posted:Hardly a rumor, dude was made vice-chairperson of the CCPCC before his tenure as CE was even done you don't have to be a party member to be in a leadership position on cppcc, that is literally the purpose of that body
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Sep 18, 2019 03:51
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R. Guyovich posted:you don't have to be a party member to be in a leadership position on cppcc, that is literally the purpose of that body correct few people know that China actually has a multi-party system and non-CCP parties such as China Democratic League and the liberal party of Hong Kong are represented on the cppcc
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Sep 18, 2019 03:54
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Lady Galaga posted:Asia Times interviewing one maid is good, Hong Kong Free Press having a section dedicated to them is meaningless The point is that HKFP having a section for migrant worker stories isn't a political platform.
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Sep 18, 2019 04:00
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The point is that HKFP having a section for migrant worker stories isn't a political platform. If only there was a system where people could vote for politicians that represent their political platform. We should find one and then protest in favor of it against authoritarian regimes that resist it.
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Sep 18, 2019 06:53
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Bloodnose posted:If only there was a system where people could vote for politicians that represent their political platform. We should find one and then protest in favor of it against authoritarian regimes that resist it. politicians who represent political platforms almost never do anything to realize them. electoral politics always end up so gamified that the only interests which are actually served are those of the power players. it happens in every liberal democracy no matter how high minded its ideals are. that’s why people expressed concern when protesters attended exhibits by Maidan veterans whooping up the Ukrainian revolution. what happened in Ukraine was a completely lateral move. a pro-Moscow oligarch was replaced with a pro-EU oligarch, and the process of performing a full rotation back around to a politics of bourgeois class interests heightened the most reactionary tendencies in Ukrainian society. you think that being able to elect the chief executive is going to be a vector for progress but it won’t be. it’s just going to be another tool to manage public expectations. Hong Kong needs a clean break from the trappings of its colonial heritage. democratizing a few positions and calling it a day won’t radically transform society. real change won’t be possible without a political system that can engage the public in popular participation. you need a system where the people can rule themselves. none of that is possible with the liberal blinders on. Lady Galaga expressed it pretty clearly. they have a rights-oriented conception of political life instead of a means oriented one. it doesn’t matter if migrant workers have a right to protest on paper when it’s materially impossible for them to do so. it won’t be possible for them even if you could vote for more offices, because they’re going to be overruled anyway. liberal formalism is a trap. the protesters were always fighting for the wrong things. they’ve been struggling towards a lateral move.
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Sep 18, 2019 07:36
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https://twitter.com/FlagsMashupBot/status/1174186318131318785?s=20Pener Kropoopkin posted:Grab one of your expat buddies so he can brush you up on English. Woof
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Sep 18, 2019 09:08
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Lady Galaga posted:I was born in Scotland so English isn't really my forte. It's why I advocate for Scottish independence. oh so you just generally want to balkanize successful leftist states like China and the United Kingdom and render them easy pickings for international capital
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Sep 18, 2019 10:42
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Nah I just think a region of people who are ideologically different should have the right to govern themselves rather than be forced into successful leftist policies such as Brexit or the Extradition Law Amendment Bill
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Sep 18, 2019 11:21
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i dont think bringing up brexit is a good idea if youre trying to argue that ideologically motivated protestors against foreign influence are supposed to be the good guys
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Sep 18, 2019 11:36
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Lady Galaga posted:Nah I just think a region of people who are ideologically different should have the right to govern themselves rather than be forced into successful leftist policies such as Brexit or the Extradition Law Amendment Bill They can have their limited autonomy if they pass the article 23. Spoiled Hong Kongers who can't agree to the most minimal baseline of "be patriotic Chinese" don't deserve to government themselves and run their own dystopian hellscape.
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Sep 18, 2019 12:18
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| # ? May 26, 2024 10:08 |
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https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1168000171122118657
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Sep 18, 2019 12:41
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