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HorseLord posted:They started this nonsense in outrage that a murderer might be extradited 
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Sep 18, 2019 04:14
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sincx posted:Remember, "two wrongs don't make a right" works both ways. it's such a joy to see how far you've come
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Sep 18, 2019 09:37
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Fojar38 posted:Trying to impose your views of Hong Kong's history as the "correct" one over the views of the people who actually live there is imperialist as gently caress That's a really ridiculous thing to say. You want to talk about the "lived experiences" of Hong Kong residents - while deliberately ignoring that there is more than one social class there, and the Experiences They Lived Through are going to be different ones. You are going to get people who hated it because it was a dictatorship where they had to live in a cage home, and you are going to get people who loved it because it was a dictatorship where trade unions were powerless and you didn't have to pay minimum wage. Deliberately ignoring this means you've picked only one view and made it definitive, and surprise, you picked the attitude of compradors, those that got rich by collaborating. it is now "talking over lived experiences" tankiefascistimperialism to say something as simple as "Colonialism is bad". You tied yourself in a knot to make denouncing imperialist relations an act of imperialism. Colonialism is bad. It's bad. Silver2195 posted:The economic issues can't really be addressed in a system where, among other things, a substantial chunk of legislative seats are literally chosen directly by business interest groups. That would be more of a reason to make poverty a central issue to their campaign, not less. Throughout history and all over the world the poor have revolted even when their society has literally no concept of democracy. That they don't talk about poverty, and don't demand solutions to it, tells me that the social class this movement comes from is not the poor.
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Sep 18, 2019 16:01
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HorseLord posted:That's a really ridiculous thing to say. You want to talk about the "lived experiences" of Hong Kong residents - while deliberately ignoring that there is more than one social class there, and the Experiences They Lived Through are going to be different ones. You are going to get people who hated it because it was a dictatorship where they had to live in a cage home, and you are going to get people who loved it because it was a dictatorship where trade unions were powerless and you didn't have to pay minimum wage. I thought you were a copycat gimmick poster, but if not, all I can say is holy poo poo the cognitive dissonance here is mindblowing
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Sep 18, 2019 18:06
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Elaborate on that.
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Sep 18, 2019 18:10
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Darkest Auer posted:I thought you were a copycat gimmick poster, but if not, all I can say is holy poo poo the cognitive dissonance here is mindblowing No HorseLord is the real deal and has posted all sorts of insane poo poo in the past, although they were quiet for a while so I can only assume they were posting from a sockpuppet for a bit.
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Sep 18, 2019 18:13
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Yes the insane never before heard concept of "social classes exist and have different material interests" only horselord could come up with that. it's definitely never played a role in chinese politics before
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Sep 18, 2019 18:16
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Arguing for universal suffrage in Hong Kong is arguing against the vested interests of CCP cronies and landlords. If you can't see the economic component there, just lol
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Sep 18, 2019 19:22
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Instead of me, a white European dude with an obsession for milk tea, arguing this, maybe folks would rather hear from honkies themselves: https://lausan.hk
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Sep 18, 2019 19:25
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Jeoh posted:Instead of me, a white European dude with an obsession for milk tea, arguing this, maybe folks would rather hear from honkies themselves: https://lausan.hk Mmmm an article arguing for the right of the migrant workers, is this actually written by a native Hong Konger? [click click click] heh of course not.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:44
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tino posted:Mmmm an article arguing for the right of the migrant workers, is this actually written by a native Hong Konger? [click click click] heh of course not. Native Hong Konger? Sounds very localist, I'd be careful before Guangzhou PSB picks you up.
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Sep 18, 2019 20:06
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HorseLord posted:That's a really ridiculous thing to say. You want to talk about the "lived experiences" of Hong Kong residents - while deliberately ignoring that there is more than one social class there, and the Experiences They Lived Through are going to be different ones. You are going to get people who hated it because it was a dictatorship where they had to live in a cage home, and you are going to get people who loved it because it was a dictatorship where trade unions were powerless and you didn't have to pay minimum wage. holy lol
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Sep 18, 2019 20:24
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It's almost like Hong Kong is a strange place that doesn't really feel belonging to China BECAUSE of colonialism. And the fractured mess of trying to integrate it into the rest is a classic example of what makes colonialism bad. And yet sure, please blame the victim for having a confusing complicated identity and scenario. Especially not gross coming from a citizen of the colonizer country. No siree bob.
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Sep 18, 2019 20:28
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hi Grape
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Sep 18, 2019 20:30
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The Great Autismo! posted:hi Grape Hello GBS guy.
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Sep 18, 2019 20:31
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Grape posted:Hello GBS guy. hope you have a good day buddy
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Sep 18, 2019 20:33
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Somebody upset that a political movement is led by people from the bourgeois class instead of the poorest class? I have some bad news about every political movement there's ever been and ever will be.
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Sep 18, 2019 22:10
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I love the classist as gently caress assumption underlying all his posts that poor people don't really care about civil rights issues. You know the people who have the least resources, time and often enough education to navigate legal systems even in the best of cases?
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Sep 18, 2019 23:25
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Bloodnose posted:Somebody upset that a political movement is led by people from the bourgeois class instead of the poorest class? I have some bad news about every political movement there's ever been and ever will be. They're upset that a political movement away from totalitarianism exists because they are a fascist.
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Sep 18, 2019 23:26
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Are we talking about the HK protest? It's being led by the bourgeois class?
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Sep 18, 2019 23:52
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tino posted:Are we talking about the HK protest? It's being led by the bourgeois class? It was definitely spurred by students, who in Marxist terms are bourgeois. They wouldn't like the term "led" since it's officially a leaderless movement. But it's a given statement of political science that revolutionary movements are led by the bourgeoisie. Or at least it was a decade ago when I was in school. I'm not up to date on the scholarship for sure.
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Sep 19, 2019 01:34
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tino posted:Mmmm an article arguing for the right of the migrant workers, is this actually written by a native Hong Konger? [click click click] heh of course not. How is a guy with the name Promise Li not a native HKer
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Sep 19, 2019 01:50
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openDemocracy posted:Promise Li is a member and former staff organizer of Solidarity (U.S.) and tenant organizer with Chinatown Community for Equitable Development (CCED) in Los Angeles Chinatown. I couldn't tell the guy's gender with that religious? name.
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Sep 19, 2019 02:33
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I'm living in Hong Kong yet I'm not a native Hong Konger, how does living somewhere corroborate to where you were raised?
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Sep 19, 2019 02:36
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Bloodnose posted:It was definitely spurred by students, who in Marxist terms are bourgeois. They wouldn't like the term "led" since it's officially a leaderless movement. Students are not bourgies. Anyway the core of the protest is the middle aged professionals who do the non-cooperation thing and push the students to the front.
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Sep 19, 2019 02:38
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It's ok to just admit you are https://twitter.com/promiseli_/status/1160694112787390464
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Sep 19, 2019 02:40
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Well he grew up in HK and went to LA for higher education and got properly indoctrinated by the left-wing thoughts. No longer a native HKer who live in libertarian echo chambers.
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Sep 19, 2019 02:46
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I think the No True Scotsman has to come from Lady Galaga here. You're off sides, tino
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Sep 19, 2019 02:51
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If you go to college you're bourgeoisie. I'm sorry to tell anyone here who was under any illusions that they were a part of the proletariat after going to college for a degree in political science or whatever.Lady Galaga posted:How is a guy with the name Promise Li not a native HKer He could easily be from Singapore if it was "Promise Lee".
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Sep 19, 2019 04:53
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tino posted:Students are not bourgies. Anyway the core of the protest is the middle aged professionals who do the non-cooperation thing and push the students to the front. violent protester agitators are not drawn from the normal pool of violent protestor agitators (students)
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Sep 19, 2019 05:14
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:If you go to college you're bourgeoisie. I'm sorry to tell anyone here who was under any illusions that they were a part of the proletariat after going to college for a degree in political science or whatever. jesus is this really what you think? you could be making $10.00 an hour and act more bourgeoisie than a cog in some civil machine, consume meat and die. Proletariat is not an education level it's a state of being.
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Sep 19, 2019 05:14
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This just in Steve Jobs was the proletariat because he only made 1 USD a year thanks for clearing that up guys
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Sep 19, 2019 05:29
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also, hong kong students protesting against the chinese government are, by definition, ideologically distinct from and ideologically worse than the students who murdered a shitload of people under Mao because the former engaging in occasional vandalism and shutting down an airport is unlawful and unpatriotic
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Sep 19, 2019 05:53
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i'm frankly somewhat curious how the tankie contingent would respond if the Hong Kong protests dragged landlords and billionaires into the streets fortunately, that won't happen because the Hong Kong cops, noble defenders of peace and freedom unlike US cops, will crush the impudent scum
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Sep 19, 2019 05:55
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GreyjoyBastard posted:i'm frankly somewhat curious how the tankie contingent would respond if the Hong Kong protests dragged landlords and billionaires into the streets Hong Kong Billionaires bankrolled the protests by paying the protestors 300 million dollars a day to protest (100 dollars per protestor per day) . The protests dried up before the protestors would drag their paymasters out into the street
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Sep 19, 2019 06:04
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I don't believe the students are being paid because stuff like that would come out very easily under anonymous post. But watch a few yellow vest videos and watch the HK videos. HK protesters have way way better gears than any other protests I have seen frankly.
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Sep 19, 2019 08:53
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tino posted:I don't believe the students are being paid because stuff like that would come out very easily under anonymous post. Educated young people in a wealthy highly consumerist urban society, it's not really a surprise they are well informed and have access to materiel.
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Sep 19, 2019 12:31
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Bensa posted:Educated young people in a wealthy highly consumerist urban society, it's not really a surprise they are well informed and have access to materiel. I looked it up. HK's income per capita is only 13% higher than France and way higher wealth disparity.
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Sep 19, 2019 13:14
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If anybody who goes to college is bourgeois, then that term has basically no meaning in the 21st century. edit: love people in this thread trying to prove the HK protestors are no angels!
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Sep 19, 2019 13:40
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unwantedplatypus posted:If anybody who goes to college is bourgeois, then that term has basically no meaning in the 21st century. It's almost as if a political term coined in the 19th century doesn't translate well into the 21st century and people shouldn't have a slavish devotion to putting everything under an antiquated lens. The transitive and different nature of labor in the 21st century also doesn't match the traditional model outlined by Marx and we're currently dealing with a different, though also defective and exploitative, model of capitalism. I'm still surprised for some reason that people think the government of the PRC has the interests of anyone, other than themselves and party members, at heart. There's no real social safety net and the only substantive aid that's been given to lower income earners is to buy their apartments or houses from them at a generous value. Housing also suffers similar problems to Hong Kong in major cities but it's only relieved by the fact that you can live in the suburbs, usually 1 hour to 2 hours away by rail. It's like saying the housing situation in New York City is very equitable because you can live in New Jersey. Hong Kong's problems are not going to be fixed by replacing the PRC chosen elected representatives with unelected CCP representatives with usually no connection to the local they're governing.
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Sep 19, 2019 15:23
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