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Eric the Mauve posted:You didn't answer his other very pertinent question: how does this compare to the offers other people in the same program end up receiving? Are they just lowballing you or is this SOP? Fair. I’m reaching out to a couple of others in the program to see how their transition out of the program happened. It’s a pretty small program - just 3 hired in my year, with the other 2 since departed. I do have some time on my side, with my current contract expiring in 6 weeks. That should be long enough to make some inroads elsewhere while stalling / prolonging discussions locally. I’m leaning towards scheduling a discussion with HR in a couple of weeks to go over the proposed contract - standard asking plenty of questions about details, perks, how salary was calculated etc without diving into any negotiation upfront.
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Sep 12, 2019 20:19
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If you have six weeks then you should also be job hunting as actively as humanly possible, to the exclusion of all else including sleep if necessary. Your position (your BATNA) is much much MUCH stronger when you get offer(s). i.e., if you get an offer for 15% more than your current employer's lovely offer, you don't outright say "I have another offer" right up front but you can say with total confidence "I will require [original offer + 40%] to make this work." Not to put undue pressure on you but this is probably the most critical six weeks of your life to date coming up right now, in terms of how much money you will earn in your lifetime. So if it is at all within the realm of physical possibility, beat the loving pavement and get some offers, my man. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Sep 12, 2019 |
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Sep 12, 2019 20:22
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Eric the Mauve posted:If you have six weeks then you should also be job hunting as actively as humanly possible, to the exclusion of all else including sleep if necessary. Your position (your BATNA) is much much MUCH stronger when you get offer(s). ETM's posting in this thread is solid gold. Now that being said... Cart posted:I’ve been working for a multinational corporation for 5 years now. I’d joined from a top MBA program and was brought on as part of a global executive fast track program which has seen me work across 3 countries in 3 different functions in that time. Salary is very competitive, albeit structured a bit differently: it’s net net, so they take care of taxes and I pocket the same amount regardless of the country / tax structure I work in. On top of that, housing has been covered - a huge benefit. Take your position and experience and apply it to position of your opponent in this negotiation: You have a supplier who you've had to pay high market rates for their output. Their market is starting to shrink, meaning you make up a bigger portion of their customer base and have more leverage to negotiate a better deal. You're working on a contract that will save you 15%; you'll pay them 5% less per unit shipped, and, they'll adopt responsibility for warehousing unshipped inventory that you were previously responsible for. What things do you need to do to increase your likelihood of suceeding in this deal? What kinds of things can your supplier do to gently caress up your negotiation? What might your supplier do that puts more money in the supplier's pocket and less in yours? Because you're an MBA I'll just do all the abstract connecting dots for you: You are the supplier, and your employer is the one cutting prices 5% and no longer paying to house you. If your supplier were to say "Well we've been working together for a long time, and you've made some investments in our tooling, and we've had to pay some absurd overtime to meet your orders in the past" are you going to do anything different in this negotiation? If your supplier were to say "We've got another customer lined up who we'll be directing all our output toward unless you start paying us 40% more per unit shipped" are you going to do anything different in this negotiation?
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Sep 12, 2019 22:20
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leper khan posted:What’s the best way to value stock grants from a startup? I had thought everyone moved to RSU’s for the deferred tax liability, but here we are. If there is monetization behind startup stock grants, then they actually have value. If they are options, assume they are worth zero. Even if they aren’t or never are, assume them to be zero. It only matters when you exercise, and you have the capital to fund them (unless you have a fancy plan). Some options plan have a way to self fund (holdback) funding them, and some handle taxes. Some RSU plans are mature enough to account for taxation (I’ve had times where they held back RSU money to pay for taxes and made it super easy). Some RSU plans make you do the work. Some straight up stock grant plans have the nice options to handle taxes and such, I’ve seen it both ways. You may have to read the plan paperwork. It sucks but even ‘phantom stock’ (oh god I’m dating myself) has ways for you to figure it all out.
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Sep 12, 2019 22:44
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Any tips for negotiating within a range that will be aligned with an award wage rate? I applied for a job that was advertised as "Pay as per x award with hourly rate of 34-37 per hour dependant on qualifications and experience" and they sound keen to hire me pending positive police checks coming back. My current position pays $35 per hour so I'm keen to go up from there if I can. I've got post grad qualifications and I've worked for the government regulator for this sector so I think I'm worth the higher end of the scale.. Apart from just saying that, is there anything else I should be considering? Tia!
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Sep 14, 2019 00:57
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Since I'm interviewing for an internal position, I was already expecting negotiations to be close to nonexistent but I had my suspicions confirmed when I asked about compensation. Apparently HR determines what I'm worth and that's that. Great.
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Sep 20, 2019 04:33
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By all means take whatever you can get from your current employer (i.e. whatever bolsters your resume). But there's nobody to blame but yourself if you're not actively pursuing positions elsewhere.
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Sep 20, 2019 13:54
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There isn’t any other game in town unfortunately. I’m not completely stuck because there are always open positions I could apply to for a admittedly limited boost. It’s just a matter of how frequently I want to job hop.
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Sep 20, 2019 17:21
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Has anyone ever used an offer from an outside company to ask for a raise internally? It looks like I'm getting an offer from another company which is a competitor to mine with a much higher salary, but the company offering seems more of the same, so I'd rather stay and just get paid more.
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Sep 20, 2019 18:22
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You'll get the raise and then your company will look to replace you. Or they won't and they will still look to replace you.
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Sep 20, 2019 18:48
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I was expecting to receive an offer today from a company but instead I got a call from the HR person telling me they would really, really like to extend me an offer right now but they have to wait a week or two for headcount approval to go through after this big hiring push they just did and I am dying. I did confirm at least that it's not just a, "We think you're great but we're just not ready for a commitment" talk, that there is an offer forthcoming. I already reached out to the other company I'm expecting an offer from and if I get something from them I can hopefully get Company 1 to expedite their poo poo.
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Sep 20, 2019 19:06
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seiferguy posted:Has anyone ever used an offer from an outside company to ask for a raise internally? It looks like I'm getting an offer from another company which is a competitor to mine with a much higher salary, but the company offering seems more of the same, so I'd rather stay and just get paid more. Yes. People do it all the time. Here's how it breaks down. Sometimes the current employer tells them, professionally, to get hosed. No worries; they take the better offer. Sometimes the current employer tells them to hang in there, there will definitely be a raise and/or promotion for you after {You achieve X, Y and Z | we get through this current crunch | company earnings go up | etc}. If you're dumb enough to swallow that pack of lies then you deserve what you get. Sometimes the current employer will agree to match the other company's offer. When that happens, about 80-90% of the time the employee will be abruptly fired within a year, but most commonly after about 3-5 months, as soon as the company has prepared for their departure and lined up a cheaper replacement. But don't worry. You definitely are in the 10-20% that won't happen to and everything will be awesome. Hoodwinker posted:I was expecting to receive an offer today from a company but instead I got a call from the HR person telling me they would really, really like to extend me an offer right now but they have to wait a week or two for headcount approval to go through after this big hiring push they just did and I am dying. I did confirm at least that it's not just a, "We think you're great but we're just not ready for a commitment" talk, that there is an offer forthcoming. I already reached out to the other company I'm expecting an offer from and if I get something from them I can hopefully get Company 1 to expedite their poo poo. Well, assuming the offer does come through, at least now you know there's a power struggle in progress and somebody upstairs doesn't want you there. I know that sounds gloomy, but it's way better to go in knowing that than going in naive. Helps you protect yourself better. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Sep 20, 2019 |
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Sep 20, 2019 20:36
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Eric the Mauve posted:Yes. People do it all the time. Here's how it breaks down.
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Sep 20, 2019 20:38
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Eric the Mauve posted:Yes. People do it all the time. Here's how it breaks down. Why do you spend so much time in this thread just to poo poo on people seeking advice/help lmao gently caress you man
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Sep 20, 2019 20:38
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Eric the Mauve posted:Well, assuming the offer does come through, at least now you know there's a power struggle in progress and somebody upstairs doesn't want you there. stuffed crust punk posted:Why do you spend so much time in this thread just to poo poo on people seeking advice/help lmao
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Sep 20, 2019 20:40
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Because the single most destructive thing people do to their own careers is stay put forever because they're afraid of change, and companies gleefully exploit them for it. I want everyone who posts in this thread to be successful and happy and one day own a Scrooge McDuck swimming pool full of freshly minted $100 bills! But helpful advice is not the same thing as telling people what they want to hear. If another company has actively demonstrated, by making you an offer, that they want you there at a way higher salary than your current company does, loving take it and embrace your own awesomeness. e: soliticing a match/better offer from your current employer is still good for negotiating though, you can sometimes get your new employer to raise their offer.
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Sep 20, 2019 20:43
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Eric the Mauve posted:Because the single most destructive thing people do to their own careers is stay put forever because they're afraid of change, and companies gleefully exploit them for it.
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Sep 20, 2019 20:45
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Hoodwinker posted:Do you think he's making GBS threads on him? It's a rational strategy. poo poo like this is what I'm talking about Eric the Mauve posted:But don't worry. You definitely are in the 10-20% that won't happen to and everything will be awesome.
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Sep 20, 2019 21:17
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stuffed crust punk posted:Why do you spend so much time in this thread just to poo poo on people seeking advice/help lmao
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Sep 20, 2019 21:22
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stuffed crust punk posted:poo poo like this is what I'm talking about
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Sep 20, 2019 21:24
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Hoodwinker posted:It's not nice, but I don't know if I would call it mean. The purpose of this thread is not to be nice. It could be phrased in a way that isn't condescending and insulting. 
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Sep 20, 2019 21:41
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Posting for my wife. 2 years ago she rebounded from teaching into recruiting and is making $61k (base salary of $37k, commissions $24k) 12 days PTO, 100% work from home. She was just headhunted for an executive recruiter job. She told them her base salary and total compensation (yeah, yeah) and they are eager to hire her. The offer is a salary of $53k, a quarterly bonus of whatever they feel like instead of commissions, 15 days PTO, still 100% work from home. Both of the firms are very small, 5 people. The experience will be higher quality, she believes that their bonuses will be generous, and this removes the risk of a slowing economy cutting into commissions. So she is eager to accept, but told them that she'll think it over this weekend. She is thinking that at the least she should ask for a minimum bonus guarantee to beat her current income. They know her commissions total, and she shouldn't take a pay cut for a more rigorous job. Does anyone have advice for going from a defined commission to a discretionary bonus like this? We need to pin down what these bonuses will be instead of working for promises. What other reasoning should we give for our counteroffer?
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Sep 20, 2019 21:42
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"I'm happy where I am so it will require a significant increase in compensation to convince me to move." Of course if she already tipped them off that she prefers to work for them, that won't work; they know she'll accept the offer as-is if they hold firm, so they'll hold firm. It's really hard to give more detailed help without more specifics, i.e. what is the average annual expectation for the bonuses, how many hours/week can she expect to work at this gig as compared to her current one, etc. If you guys don't know any of that, it's almost impossible to negotiate intelligently. But by all means definitely come back and say "I thought it over and since there is no clear commission structure I really need $61K in base salary to make this work within my budget." They'll probably say no, but it won't hurt to ask (like, if they respond by pulling the offer then THAT'S GOOD because they just saved you from working for a horrible company). You should always be wary of anything that isn't guaranteed in writing.
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Sep 20, 2019 21:52
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stuffed crust punk posted:Why do you spend so much time in this thread just to poo poo on people seeking advice/help lmao I didnt find the info offensive. Hard truth, sure, but I'm not upset coming into this thread and talking about my situation! Normally I wouldn't consider to counter offer, but my company is struggling to hire new people for the skillset needed (probably because they wont pay enough!) So I thought there would be leverage. But I also think that, yeah they'd be super loving petty about it too. The main issue is that I don't really want to work for this new company, since its basically the same stuff, different company, more pay, probably a worse client. Oh well. I'll probably just take the new job and continue looking for other opportunities.
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Sep 20, 2019 21:57
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Eric the Mauve posted:"I'm happy where I am so it will require a significant increase in compensation to convince me to move." She said to them that she is happy where she is but very excited to join them. Hours are the same, although they consider the work slightly more demanding. The big unknown is the bonuses. How about just focusing on that by replying: "Commisions are a large part of my income, so I would like to know more about the bonuses that would replace them. Can you tell me the minimum that I would earn in bonuses in a year?" And if that number sounds good, then ask them to give her an offer letter that includes that floor for bonuses.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:29
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They should be able to at least lay out a bonus target, even if it is not guaranteed. My bonus is never guaranteed but I am least know about what it could be if the company is doing well (15% of my salary). Based on the quarterly metrics I have a pretty good idea of what I will get.
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Sep 20, 2019 23:02
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teardrop posted:"Commisions are a large part of my income, so I would like to know more about the bonuses that would replace them. Can you tell me the minimum that I would earn in bonuses in a year?" And if that number sounds good, then ask them to give her an offer letter that includes that floor for bonuses. The minimum is going to be $0 (else it wouldn't be a bonus, it would be salary) but the key thing is that the bonus structure and terms are transparent before she accepts the offer. If the company is not 100% transparent about this that's a big red flag.
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Sep 20, 2019 23:05
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So here's my current situation: (Current) Company 0 pays me $110k plus 12.5% annual bonus. The work is good and I'm not super unhappy but I'm starting to get itchy for career growth, which I'm not super feeling. If my job hunt fails, I can comfortably fall back into this just fine. Company 1 has said in no uncertain terms that they're going to make me an offer, but there's bureaucracy in the way of them doing that. They need approval of more headcount before they can formally extend an offer to me. Company 1 is my first choice for a lot of reasons, all other things being equal. Company 2 has made me a formal offer of $135k a year with 2,000 options. They're private now, and while it seems likely they'll go public soon, I'm still going to temper my expectations of the value of the options at $0. I have a friend who works at Company 2 and speaks highly of it. All three companies have cool people but Company 1 seems like the best growth opportunity. I've already told them I'm expecting another offer to come in. It came in now. I have the details. Do I stall Company 2 until Company 1 sorts their poo poo out? Do I put a hard limit on how long I wait for Company 1? I don't have any real leverage to negotiate with Company 2 until I have a real offer, so that's a bummer, and I'd like to move past Bummersville into Winnertown, where I'm paid something closer to $140-150k. Edit: I spoke to a friend and we've brainstormed this idea that if Company 1 keeps dragging their feet that I tell Company 2, "Look, I'm very excited for an opportunity at either of you, but I need to do my due diligence on an offer from them. However, if they're going to keep dragging their feet, I could be swayed to join your company with a one-time signing bonus of $10k." Thoughts? Hoodwinker fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Sep 20, 2019 |
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Sep 20, 2019 23:09
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Eric the Mauve posted:The minimum is going to be $0 (else it wouldn't be a bonus, it would be salary) but the key thing is that the bonus structure and terms are transparent before she accepts the offer. If the company is not 100% transparent about this that's a big red flag.
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Sep 20, 2019 23:38
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stuffed crust punk posted:Why do you spend so much time in this thread just to poo poo on people seeking advice/help lmao
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Sep 21, 2019 01:18
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I’m the corporate Sam Vimes, I need two drinks just to reach what most people call sobriety.
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Sep 21, 2019 02:35
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Hoodwinker posted:So here's my current situation: You call Company 1 and tell them your other offer came in and they need to put something in writing otherwise you're out.
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Sep 21, 2019 04:43
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tumblr hype man posted:You call Company 1 and tell them your other offer came in and they need to put something in writing otherwise you're out. 
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Sep 21, 2019 04:55
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Hoodwinker posted:I sent an email to Company 1 right after I heard from Company 2 and got an auto-response from the HR rep saying they're out of office until Wednesday So call the hiring manager. Or VP. Or someone with power and authority in the process to poo poo or get off the pot.
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Sep 21, 2019 05:58
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I feel like “hey Company 2, give me more money or maybe I’ll go sign with a company that isn’t giving me an offer yet” comes off pretty cringey. Trying to push Company 1 along seems like a much better idea.
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Sep 21, 2019 12:33
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Ultimate Mango posted:So call the hiring manager. Or VP. Or someone with power and authority in the process to poo poo or get off the pot. fourwood posted:I feel like “hey Company 2, give me more money or maybe I’ll go sign with a company that isn’t giving me an offer yet” comes off pretty cringey. Trying to push Company 1 along seems like a much better idea.
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Sep 21, 2019 13:58
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Hoodwinker posted:I sent an email to Company 1 right after I heard from Company 2 and got an auto-response from the HR rep saying they're out of office until Wednesday Seconded that you need to escalate this if you have any interest in company 1. You have nothing to lose by doing so, and they’re being unprofessional as hell by leaving you hanging like that with no forwarding contact.
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Sep 21, 2019 14:00
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Hoodwinker, Company 1 is a mega-megacorp, right?
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Sep 21, 2019 14:07
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Eric the Mauve posted:Hoodwinker, Company 1 is a mega-megacorp, right?
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Sep 21, 2019 15:06
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If Company 2's offer isn't good enough for you to switch then you lose nothing telling them that. It also buys you time and doesn't close off negotiations if Company 1 comes back with a better offer because saying you have a better offer from another company is always a legitimate reason to re-negotiate.
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Sep 21, 2019 20:23
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