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ansel autisms posted:or buy a film camera with a light meter in it I mean I have a Pentax K1000, it has a light meter, and it works even, but it doesn't have any numbers, just a needle in a range. 
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Sep 20, 2019 16:41
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Annath posted:I mean I have a Pentax K1000, it has a light meter, and it works even, but it doesn't have any numbers, just a needle in a range. ansel autisms posted:learn to use your light meter The keywords you're looking for are "match needle metering."
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Sep 20, 2019 16:42
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Sauer posted:If you live in Canada our Walmarts (probably in the USA as well) have started stocking three packs of Kodak Gold 200 for 12 bux. That's probably one of the best deals you'll find in this country for an affordable film and its a pretty good product in its own right if you like Kodak colors. Its warmer than Color Plus with milder grain. Walmart and a lot of chain drug stores here in the States sell Gold 200 for pretty cheap still. Annath posted:I'm a total neophyte, so I probably don't need super pro level stuff, just something that will not look like rear end. You could do this, but if your aim is to just learn how to get proper exposures with film, I would just keep a log. Your digital camera may be setting different variables if you're shooting with auto settings. You can't change the speed of your film (pushing and pulling not withstanding), but a digital camera will change the "ISO" of the sensor based on other settings and the light that it's gathering to get what it feels is the best exposure. What kind of film camera are you shooting with? If it has a meter built in, you should just use that and adjust based on what it's telling you as that will give you what it feels will give you the proper exposure. I use an app on my phone called Analog that gives me the ability to tag location, enter shutter speed and aperture, as well as other notes and details so I can go back to my fames after development and see what I was doing to get the results I'm looking at.
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Sep 20, 2019 16:42
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Annath posted:I mean I have a Pentax K1000, it has a light meter, and it works even, but it doesn't have any numbers, just a needle in a range. RTFM
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Sep 20, 2019 16:43
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Dudeabides posted:Walmart and a lot of chain drug stores here in the States sell Gold 200 for pretty cheap still. Thanks for the detailed advice. I'll check out that app! This is less helpful advice, but I do have, and have read, the manual.
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Sep 20, 2019 16:47
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it clearly didn't sink in very well, have you tried reading it again until you understand how to use the perfectly functional tool in front of you?
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Sep 20, 2019 16:48
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Annath posted:This is less helpful advice, but I do have, and have read, the manual. Clearly not if your problem with the meter is that it doesn't have numbers.
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Sep 20, 2019 16:50
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Annath posted:I mean I have a Pentax K1000, it has a light meter, and it works even, but it doesn't have any numbers, just a needle in a range. I have an SP1000 and a Yashica TL-Electro that have a needle as well. Just adjust until it's in the middle.
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Sep 20, 2019 16:53
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check out all these numbers 
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Sep 20, 2019 16:53
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^^ thank you! Those are awesome!MrBlandAverage posted:Clearly not if your problem with the meter is that it doesn't have numbers. No, I don't have a problem with it at all. I was trying to ask if a more advanced meter, such as with a scale or demarcations of some sort, would be more helpful to learn with. I apologize if that wasn't clear. MrBlandAverage posted:The keywords you're looking for are "match needle metering." From what I found when looking into this term, it seems like match-needle metering requires a meter with two needles, one which indicates the aperture, and one the relative exposure given that aperture and the other settings. Since my camera only has one needle, are you recommending I get a different meter?
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Sep 20, 2019 16:54
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Annath posted:
Imagine that the gap in the middle of the needle's range is another needle. Match them by changing the numbers on the outside of the camera and lens.
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Sep 20, 2019 17:00
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MrBlandAverage posted:Imagine that the gap in the middle of the needle's range is another needle. Match them by changing the numbers on the outside of the camera and lens.  Mind = Blown
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Sep 20, 2019 17:03
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Sep 20, 2019 17:08
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ansel autisms posted:people who segment their photography into "practice shots" and "something with purpose" somehow only seem to take practice shots forever I'd argue that playtime is valuable, and you can learn a lot if you let yourself gently caress around just for the sheer fun of it. If having cheap and serviceable film lets you shoot more in general (for either financial or psychological reasons), then I'm all for it. Fujiroids do this for me in large format, and if nothing else the sheer impulsive freedom of "Sure, why not? I'm carrying 50 exposures and I bought them cheap." has let me develop a lot faster (  ) than if I were only doing things where I was sure I wanted to commit.
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Sep 20, 2019 17:32
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it's strange that y'all are sure you want to commit to film to the point where you'll buy a camera, a setup to develop everything with, but stop at the point of taking it seriously enough to spend the extra few cents a sheet to get good results from the gear you've paid good money for
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Sep 20, 2019 17:48
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Yond Cassius posted:I'd argue that playtime is valuable, and you can learn a lot if you let yourself gently caress around just for the sheer fun of it. If having cheap and serviceable film lets you shoot more in general (for either financial or psychological reasons), then I'm all for it. Fujiroids do this for me in large format, and if nothing else the sheer impulsive freedom of "Sure, why not? I'm carrying 50 exposures and I bought them cheap." has let me develop a lot faster ( I disagree. In other creative mediums, like painting, an early habit that’s hard to break is repeating brush strokes mindlessly, or dabbing in an area without thinking enough about your goals. This isn’t an issue of wasting paint and affects digital painters as well. Pre-visualizing what you want to see is an important skill to build and if you don’t limit yourself and act with intention you end up with muddy results and it can be difficult to say how you should improve. I think it’s less important to take lots of photos and more important to develop intention. Take lots of photos if you want, but if you can’t remember why you took any of them and most of your results are aimless and boring (whether or not there was a technical problem), you’re dabbing your brush. I think 35 or DSLR users end up in this trap a lot. Feels good to press the shutter, feels bad to only be able to take dentist waiting room landscapes. E: shoot portra 400
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Sep 20, 2019 17:55
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Set the ISO dial to whatever your film's ISO is. Point the camera at whatever you want to take a picture of and turn the shutter speed dial or aperture ring until the needle is in the middle of the notch. Take picture. The K1000 has a center weighted meter which will work fine for the majority of situations. If you're taking pictures of things that are mostly bright (snow scene) or mostly dark (coal bin) you make the needle sit a little higher or a little lower. Don't worry about perfection, film doesn't really care about perfect exposure.
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Sep 20, 2019 17:55
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Learn how your meter works, buy portra, look at good photography, and go shooting. Out of your 36 shots you may get one really good one (even if it's a fluke), and you don't want it to be on poo poo film.
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Sep 20, 2019 19:49
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a cyberpunk goose posted:I disagree. In other creative mediums, like painting, an early habit that’s hard to break is repeating brush strokes mindlessly, or dabbing in an area without thinking enough about your goals. This isn’t an issue of wasting paint and affects digital painters as well. Pre-visualizing what you want to see is an important skill to build and if you don’t limit yourself and act with intention you end up with muddy results and it can be difficult to say how you should improve. Hey look, it's exactly where I am. Annath posted:No, I don't have a problem with it at all. I was trying to ask if a more advanced meter, such as with a scale or demarcations of some sort, would be more helpful to learn with. I apologize if that wasn't clear. I've cut my teeth on that camera, literally all you need to do is get the needle within the gap, a little north of the middle is fine when you're learning, just pay attention to what the settings are when you shoot because light meters can be finicky and get thrown off easy by stuff like reflections and brighter surfaces, the same way a digital camera can. If the meter reacts poorly but you're experience tells you that the exposure should be fine, take the shot and make sure to compare when you get it developed. The light meter isn't exactly something you should depend on forever, especially when cameras like the K1000 wont stop you from shooting if the meter reads a certain way. Also, its a great way to learn if the meter is poorly adjusted or way off, just take some time to learn HOW off it is by. This would be easier back in the days when film was stupid cheap tho. The key here is to start paying attention to shadows as a new shooter. Shadows do a great job of telling you the quality of the light on a subject, from the differences in stops between lit and unlit, and the edge quality, from a hard line to a fuzzy indiscernible difference in shade. You should already be able to tell the difference between a bright sunny day and an overcast, so just refine from there. Film is also flexible enough that when you expose an image based on the shadows that the difference in lighting on the bright part of the image wont be entirely lost. More advanced shooters would tell you that compensation of the image would come when you develop the negative for less time to account for this, just dont worry about this now. This process doesn't actually have an objective right way to go about, you just follow one way that gets you good results and experiment from there.
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Sep 20, 2019 20:26
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The best way to take good photos is to take a lot of bad photos and then stop taking bad photos
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Sep 20, 2019 20:26
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One of these days my pictures of people with their backs turn to me on the street will be appreciated for the gritty washed out quality of the expired Smena they were shot on.
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Sep 20, 2019 20:32
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My bad fix washing habits will be considered "a stylistic choice"
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Sep 20, 2019 20:33
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I should see about a galley presentation of contact sheets made from my zone system tests.
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Sep 20, 2019 20:34
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Wild EEPROM posted:The best way to take good photos is to take a lot of bad photos and then stop taking bad photos poo poo, nobody told me that last bit!!
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Sep 20, 2019 20:38
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ansel autisms posted:it's strange that y'all are sure you want to commit to film to the point where you'll buy a camera, a setup to develop everything with, but stop at the point of taking it seriously enough to spend the extra few cents a sheet to get good results from the gear you've paid good money for I believe the price difference is quite a bit more substantial in Helen Highwater's case. ( And, seriously, this is some petty sniping. Medium and large format E6 are the direct opposite from saving a few cents because you don't take things seriously, and I know we've compared pictures of dragon hoards before. ) a cyberpunk goose posted:I think it’s less important to take lots of photos and more important to develop intention. Take lots of photos if you want, but if you can’t remember why you took any of them and most of your results are aimless and boring (whether or not there was a technical problem), you’re dabbing your brush. This is very true, and I think that's a lot of the appeal of shooting with film. I talk sometimes about the meditative quality of medium and large formats especially, as the cameras stop being able to do everything for you. But (and this is a very important but) that doesn't mean that play is mindless or directionless. To continue your painting metaphor, sometimes you're out with watercolors or even a full easel, sometimes you're just out with a sketchpad and a couple pencils. You can play with intent, and I think it's good for your development as an artist. e: Some people say to do your 'sketching' with digital, and that's fair. Up to you. e2: Also sometimes you just need a couple frames to burn to test your chemistry. That's a good reason to have a box of Foma on hand, too. Sauer posted:One of these days my pictures of people with their backs turn to me on the street will be appreciated for the gritty washed out quality of the expired Smena they were shot on. Change two letters in that medium and you can probably pitch it as some kind of conceptual performance art. Cassius Belli fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Sep 20, 2019 |
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Sep 20, 2019 22:20
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Light meters are a bitch. I went through what felt like half a dozen used ones and finally had to buy a digital meter that does incident and reflective. I haven't gotten around to sending in any film yet taken when that fancy new meter, but I tested it with my digital camera and it appears to be spot on. Light is your enemy. The sooner you realize that the less pain you'll suffer.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:33
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I've shot maybe 25 rolls in the last year, with 5 or so being E6. I thought I had it all figured out because my last bunch of C41 rolls were correctly exposed so I shot 4 rolls E6 at burning man thinking I'd get sick shots. There were some nice pics but drat did I have a lot of screwed up frames because of lighting. I love my ME super but I may just get a fully manual camera and a light meter.
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Sep 21, 2019 02:52
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better yet learn how meters work
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Sep 21, 2019 04:33
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You don’t even need a meter with Portra 400, just do whatever and somehow the photo shows up.
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Sep 21, 2019 04:48
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Or, if you care about metering over looking like you shoot film don't buy a selenium based metre.
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Sep 21, 2019 05:09
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Thanks for all the home dev info, y'all.  So, I got my Pentax ME Super yesterday from Sauer, this thing rocks. On Monday, some friends want to try to shoot Chicago's version of Manhattanhenge, and I'd like to try this camera out and shoot it on color film. I currently only have Ektar 100 and a roll of Kodak Gold 200 that Sauer was kind enough to send me, though, and I don't have a tripod. Is film this fast okay for shooting at sunset, and/or should I push it to 400 or more to do so? Or, am I better off trying to hunt down some Portra/Superia 400 at a shop? I don't actually have any experience pushing/pulling film (or much experience with film in general yet), but it seems like it's just setting the ISO to whatever "goal" ISO I want within reason, and then having it developed for that ISO instead of the labeled one?
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Sep 21, 2019 17:47
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don’t push color film. it’s not worth it.
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Sep 21, 2019 18:39
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What he said. Both those films will be fine if you expose for the sky leaving the surrounding buildings to be silhouettes. If you want to be able to see detail in the buildings as well you're going to need a tripod. Even Portra 400 would have trouble exposing detail in sunset shadowed buildings unless there's a load of bounce lighting.
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Sep 21, 2019 20:40
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Got your package Insanite. This'll keep me busy on projects for a bit!
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Sep 26, 2019 19:04
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Godspeed with them tricky lenses.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:36
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Yond Cassius posted:This is very true, and I think that's a lot of the appeal of shooting with film. I talk sometimes about the meditative quality of medium and large formats especially, as the cameras stop being able to do everything for you. But (and this is a very important but) that doesn't mean that play is mindless or directionless. To continue your painting metaphor, sometimes you're out with watercolors or even a full easel, sometimes you're just out with a sketchpad and a couple pencils. You can play with intent, and I think it's good for your development as an artist. There's also trying to understand how the act of shooting, the movements you make, are relevant (or not) to you. If we're looking at painting, there's the whole gestural abstractionism style that was way more about the movements used rather than the paintings made. Maybe you shoot a lot because that helps your process: You need to be shooting and shooting to get into the right mindset to do your work. Maybe you shoot a lot because you need the movements and processes involved in making several pictures so you can make that one keeper in the middle, sometimes not even fully aware of it. Maybe you rely a little bit on luck and chance on your work and shooting a lot helps you with that. What I'm trying to say is that yeah, it's perfectly okay if you want to shoot large format expensive film in a slow, thought out process, and it's also perfectly okay if your shooting style is looser, if you'd rather used cheap film because you don't care about some technical qualities and it doest the job you need. tl;dr do whatever the gently caress works for you and that's all that matters. You work is your work only and there's no absolute answers anybody but you can give about your process (and sometimes not even you).
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Oct 4, 2019 02:31
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fomapan absolutely blows rear end
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Oct 4, 2019 16:20
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Primo Itch posted:There's also trying to understand how the act of shooting, the movements you make, are relevant (or not) to you. If we're looking at painting, there's the whole gestural abstractionism style that was way more about the movements used rather than the paintings made. None of this wall of text is a reason to recommend using Fomapan.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:26
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ansel autisms posted:fomapan absolutely blows rear end Funny, one of my buddies just did a shoot with formapan and I think it looks pretty good. Granted, he's a pro and appears to know what he's doing..
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Oct 5, 2019 00:40
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Funny, one of my buddies just did a shoot with formapan and I think it looks pretty good. Funny, your friend must not do any exposures longer than 1/2s. Does he develop his own film? In my experience it's a real pain in the rear end to handle without scratching, and I say that as someone who's always very careful with their process. I'm sure it'd be fine now that I'm using Jobo Expert tanks, but I'd much rather not have to think about it at all. It's the softest emulsion I've ever encountered.
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Oct 5, 2019 01:32
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