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I so want the Omega to be good, but it never happens. Awesome photos and battle report!
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Sep 13, 2019 21:52
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Hell yeah LensFX
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Sep 15, 2019 20:32
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So I've been painting up some salamander tactical squads while reading up on the heresy rules and lists, and watching some battle videos. I'm building towards 1750 to start, and have been playing around with some ideas for a starting force that will still be useful for stuff as I grow the army. Here's what I came up with: HQ- 550-600 points depending on kit Praetor with Cataphractii Armor, TH & SS, Mantle of the Elder Drake, Digital Lasers Firedrake Terminator Squad (4 drakes and master) - TH & SS, wasn't sure if I could still take one with the heavy flamer, but might do that to help salamander-ize the praetor if its legal Troops - Around 800 points Tactical Squad (19 marines and sgt). Compulsory Tactical Squad (9 marines and sgt). Compulsory Pyroclast Squad (warden and 4 pyroclasts) - Land Raider Phobos transport Fast Attack 260ish points Storm Eagle Assault Ship - Multi-melta and lascannons Heavy Support - 115 points Whirlwind Scorpius So my broad thinking is that the smaller tactical force camps backfield objectives or otherwise acts as a speedbump. Larger group either helps tarpit parts of the board, objectives, or the like, and/or sometimes goes into the storm eagle for fast deployment. More likely the HQ goes in the storm eagle to get deployed wherever needed. Land Raider, Storm Eagle, and Whirlwind provide fire support and anti-armor/flier support, along with the pyroclasts. HQ smashes stuff. Down the road I'd like to get a spartan assault tank along with more firedrakes, maybe an apothecary, but I figure early on that's a lot of points concentration for small games, and the storm eagle can be more flexible for fewer points. I've also got some wiggle room to play around with options for different units, to see what I really need and what I don't as I grow the army. I've also got some dreds that can be swapped in to try out, depending on the type of game. So, thoughts? Any glaring weaknesses I'm missing? Other things I should be prioritizing to start out?
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Sep 16, 2019 01:44
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Rules question: So a Praetor that was palling around with the Grave Wardens gets merked in a challenge. This is how it all looks when the other dudes have to fight. Are they still in a melee as long as 3" consolidation takes them to BtB?  How about now?
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Sep 16, 2019 06:47
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Just so I understand, in your scenario, casualties from the challenge caused a gap between the units? If that's the case, I think they can still activate and pile in. Condolences for having to play custodes.
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Sep 16, 2019 14:48
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His other army is 1k sons. Or will be, once he paints them. Then it's some Admech and Salamanders.
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Sep 16, 2019 15:40
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Pile in like normal. If the model is in b2b or within 2” of a model in b2b they get to fight. If the challenge happened at the same initiative as the rest of the unit the pile in would happen first and all the attacks would go simultaneously
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Sep 16, 2019 15:46
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Desiden posted:So I've been painting up some salamander tactical squads while reading up on the heresy rules and lists, and watching some battle videos. I'm building towards 1750 to start, and have been playing around with some ideas for a starting force that will still be useful for stuff as I grow the army. Here's what I came up with: I'll be more general as I'm sure TKWG will jump in with Salamander specific hot tips. Your list isn't a bad place to start, depending on your meta. You should consider looking at rites of war, which change the rules you use to build your army. A common issue in the heresy is "what do I do with my troops choices" as you need two of them and they need investment to become useful. Naked tactical squads don't really do much, frankly speaking (with a few exceptions) so you need to ask yourself "what are they doing?". If you want a big blob to tarpit stuff, then you probably want to buff them up with an apothecary and or a chaplain to make them resilient. 10 dudes in the backfield standing around is alrite if that's your plan, but wouldn't it be more useful to you if they could contribute somehow? That's the though process anyway. Storm Eagles are cool, but not a reliable way to get your guys onto the table. To guarantee they make it into the game you want reserve manipulation, or accept the risk that a big chunk of your army might be missing from the game (you could take a defense line for your 10 man tacticals with a com relay, or a command rhino). Dreadclaws are popular because they are guaranteed first turn to be on the table and give you lots of options around the board. Not saying you can't go with air cavalry, but if that's the direction you want to go you might look into some of the rites of war to build around.
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Sep 16, 2019 20:54
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Agreed. 30K is a very violent setting. Pretend the atmosphere is phosphex and unprotected power armor will just evaporate on your opponent's first turn. I'm actually a fan of keeping my troops off the table as long as possible because scoring units are much harder to come by in this setting. For that reason, a small barebones tactical squad in a storm eagle isn't actually a terrible idea. Don't think of the storm eagle as a transport. Think of it as a gunboat that can grab an objective at the very end of the game. If you need reliable transport, take dreadclaws all day.
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Sep 16, 2019 23:06
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Cool, thanks for the feedback! So, for some background, my experience here is from older editions of 40k (I think either 4th or 5th was the last time I played regularly). At that point, troops choices for marines most often seemed to be 5 man tactical units with either plasma or heavy weapon, and their role more or less determined by that. So 10-20 man bolter only squads kind of threw me for a loop. My general thought was to go Covenant of Fire to start, because that seemed to be a common starting point for salamanders. That would rule out things like drop pods for delivery, but I was fiddling around some and saw some other options with multimeltas that seemed like they'd play to the rite's strengths, and be pretty efficient with my next few buys. HQ 630-700 points Praetor - Mantle of Elder Drake, TH &SS combo Terminator Command Squad with Phobos Land Raider - TH&SS kit, use them as the cheaper non-firedrake for right now but the same basic principle Troops 800-900 points 2x 10 man tac squads with artificer armor sergeants and meltabombs, in rhinos with multimelta Pyroclast Squad with Land Raider Phobos Heavy Support - 200ish points Heavy Support Squad with missle launchers, flakk missiles, maybe a rhino if I can squeeze it in. ***************** Idea would be the combination of rite-enhanced multimeltas, meltabombs, and krak missles would hopefully augment any problems the land raiders have to handle heavier armor, even with ceramite. Heavy support would also be antiair. Tac squads are a little faster with the rhinos, and the multimeltas + maybe extra CC weapons if I can afford it make them flexible for a variety of roles, if not ideal. HQ remains the big hitter for melee stuff. Biggest downsides I see is being somewhat light on the close combat outside the one big HQ unit, but still being pretty heavily reliant on close range. Any other downsides I missed?
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Sep 17, 2019 01:05
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Desiden posted:Cool, thanks for the feedback! Henlo fellow XVIII moron. Covenant of fire is a pretty solid RoW, but it’s very limiting for how you build your army. If you definitely want to do an armored spearhead with lots of pyroclasts, it’s quite good, but that’s what you get with it. With Covenant specifically, I like breachers as a compulsory troops choice to take advantage of the land raider DT slot, and then either an 15 man assault squad or a 10 man tac squad in a rhino for my second compulsory slot. Both of the latter are reasonably points efficient, reasonably mobile scoring units. Breachers are spendy but 1. very on-brand for Salamanders and 2. get that sweet sweet land raider dedicated transport. Don’t spend too many points on upgrades for compulsory troops, but sergeants definitely should take artificer armor and a master crafted weapon of some kind (power fists if you aren’t afraid of anything and want to ID praetors, power swords if you want initiative). Breachers can be an option to sink some points into, as giving them all meltabombs can be really effective and a pair of +1 strength flamers or master crafted meltaguns will almost certainly pay for itself. Beyond that, if you wanna benefit from the rite that really means taking plenty of pyroclasts and then a lot of vehicles. That heavy support squad you’re currently planning on would be a lot better served as maybe a deredeo dread, some predators, some vindicators or some other heavy support slot vehicle. Here’s an example 2k list: Sallies Covenant Of Fire Legiones Astartes Praetor: Rite of War (The Covenant of Fire); thunder hammer (master-crafted); iron halo; Dragonscale storm shield; Mantle of the Elder Drake 185 Retinue Command Squad • 4 Space Marine Chosen: Standard Bearer (inferno pistol); 3 Space Marine Chosen; 3 × inferno pistol 150 • Land Raider Phobos: hull-mounted twin-linked heavy flamer 225 10 Breacher Space Marines: Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist; master-crafted weapon); 9 Breacher Space Marines; 2 × flamer; melta bombs 300 • Land Raider Phobos: pintle-mounted multi-melta 240 15 Assault Space Marines: Assault Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist; combat shield; master-crafted weapon); 14 Assault Space Marines; 3 × power weapon 303 10 Pyroclasts: Pyroclast Warden (power fist; master-crafted weapon); 9 Pyroclasts 305 • Land Raider Proteus: hull-mounted twin-linked lascannon; pintle-mounted multi-melta 225 Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron • Javelin Attack Speeder: pintle-mounted multi-melta 65 1,998 points To go up to 2500 would just be adding fun heavy support options. There are certainly non-Covenant ways to build sallies. I’m biased but I’m a big fan of orbital assault, since it perfectly complements their slow movement/close range shooting thing and is also one of the only rites of war that can both be an allied detachment and can be a primary detachment with allies, meaning you can take full advantage of their Best Buds Status with everyone. They’re also a fine legion to just not worry about taking a RoW with- it’s not like Emperors Children, Dark Angels or Alpha Legion where the RoW is one of the main reasons you play the army.
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Sep 17, 2019 07:09
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Seriously, I dunno how you'd pass up Coils of the Hydra and its
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Sep 17, 2019 08:53
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JcDent posted:Seriously, I dunno how you'd pass up Coils of the Hydra and its It certainly beats the Headhunter Leviathal… yeeesh
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Sep 17, 2019 14:46
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Retinue Command Squad
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Sep 17, 2019 18:51
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Safety Factor posted:It's a small thing, but standard command squads can't take a land raider phobos, only a proteus. Terminator command squads, however, can and they're cheaper than you'd think. 4 with no upgrades are 150 like the inferno pistol squad you've got there. Could upgrade to combi-meltas for an additional 7 each. No idea if the Salamanders' rite of war applies to combi-meltas though. Quick tapping in quartermaster, whoops! Either terminators in an assault ramp LR or an inferno pistol squad in a Proteus would be a good option in that particular list. I believe covenant master crafts both combi meltas and inferno pistols, but I don’t have the book on me to double check.
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Sep 17, 2019 20:24
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So the day they announced Zone Mortalis tiles were going LCTB. I ordered 4 walled tiles. My group already has 12, we only need 4 more to complete our board. They’re expensive so we’ve been buying them piecemeal. A week later my order is still “pending”. I gave FW customer service a call and they told me in a lot more words that “they’re all out of tiles in the UK but they think they have more in the US but they’re not sure which ones or how many.” He assured me that he’d check and be in touch in the next couple days. Well this morning they cancelled my order, the walls are on backorder with no plans to restock. Extremely cool. I have an incomplete table now. I guess I’m just going to scrounge around on eBay and pay 5x the price. But don’t worry they gave me a refund and a $25 gift voucher so I can buy a single dice or something. Love this company 
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Sep 17, 2019 23:11
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Hixson posted:So the day they announced Zone Mortalis tiles were going LCTB. I ordered 4 walled tiles. My group already has 12, we only need 4 more to complete our board. They’re expensive so we’ve been buying them piecemeal. This seems like a very off-handed way to treat customers, tbh?
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Sep 18, 2019 01:02
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Post your models
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Sep 18, 2019 01:15
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Hixson posted:But don’t worry they gave me a refund and a $25 gift voucher so I can buy a single dice or something. Love this company Holy poo poo that loving sucks
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Sep 18, 2019 01:29
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That makes two of us, burned by FW by ZM tiles
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Sep 18, 2019 01:36
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Actually this is good for Zone Mortalis.
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Sep 18, 2019 01:37
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Safety Factor posted:Zone Mortalis is the Game of Kings and Book 9 is real.
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Sep 18, 2019 02:00
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Safety Factor posted:Zone Mortalis is the Game of Kings and Book 9 is real.
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Sep 18, 2019 02:14
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Safety Factor posted:Zone Mortalis is the Game of Kings and Book 9 is real.
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Sep 18, 2019 02:30
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I painted Ahriman:  Great miniature for a dead bad game.
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Sep 18, 2019 03:58
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It’s a very good miniature though
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Sep 18, 2019 04:55
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I’m having way too much fun with this T-shirt designer.
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Sep 19, 2019 21:13
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Ghazk posted:I’m having way too much fun with this T-shirt designer. Text should be comic sans imo
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Sep 19, 2019 21:51
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Hixson posted:Finished up some destroyers for my Night Lords:
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Sep 21, 2019 15:56
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I just realized something really funny. The best source for parts to kitbash together the Raven Guard Raptor monstermarines is probably the Gal Vorbak.
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Sep 21, 2019 22:17
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Excellent.
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Sep 22, 2019 03:22
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Putting together my Word Bearers recon force for my toxx and just need someone to tell me it’s ok to go full idiot mode with recon marines with shotguns and melta bombs charging up the guts with shrouded.
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Sep 22, 2019 08:58
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Killer_Bees! posted:Putting together my Word Bearers recon force for my toxx and just need someone to tell me it’s ok to go full idiot mode with recon marines with shotguns and melta bombs charging up the guts with shrouded. 
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Sep 22, 2019 11:53
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Killer_Bees! posted:Putting together my Word Bearers recon force for my toxx and just need someone to tell me it’s ok to go full idiot mode with recon marines with shotguns and melta bombs charging up the guts with shrouded. Do it coward
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Sep 22, 2019 12:23
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I’ve had reasonable success outflanking Recon with meltabombs to harass scorpius tanks etc. They’re like land speeders, worthless enough that your opponent hates wasting shots at them, but just dangerous enough that they can’t be ignored.
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Sep 22, 2019 18:32
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 Moritat WIP    Also, here are some basecoated seekers converted out of mor deythan. They clean up really easily. They've got a big Raven Guard symbol on their right shins and some small bird skulls on their cloaks and that's about it. I clipped away their shoulder pads and replaced them, but it could be possible to make the standard/built-in ones work.  And some classic sculpts I'm going to repaint and use as centurions or sergeants or something. I have no idea, I just want to repaint these guys and I'll find a role for them later. 
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Sep 22, 2019 20:42
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Is 30k meta friendly towards infantry marines or is rhino rush more the style? MSU or blob? Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Sep 22, 2019 |
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Sep 22, 2019 20:54
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Schadenboner posted:Is 30k meta friendly towards infantry marines or is rhino rush more the style? Depends on the legion but dedicated transports are super cheap in 30k clocking in around 30ish points on average for basic transports so its not a huge investment to try and always pick some up. Obviously legions with easy access to infiltrate like Alpha Legion or Raven Guard probably have less need of transports. Schadenboner posted:MSU or blob? in HH buying a unit tends to be really pricey but adding additional models tends to be relatively cheap compared to buying a second squad this near as I can tell discourages MSU spam in a pretty big way outside of specific builds. Tactical Squads and Assault Squads are a pretty good example of this where its normally worth going to 15/20 vs leaving them at 10 for most legions. Zasze fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Sep 22, 2019 |
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Sep 22, 2019 20:59
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Endman posted:Do it coward Bless your cotton socks, 100% what I needed to hear. The bulk of the outriders are done just need these recons done so I can start fielding the army. Then onto the fun stuff of jetbikes, gal vorbak and rapiers!
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Sep 22, 2019 22:06
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Schadenboner posted:Is 30k meta friendly towards infantry marines or is rhino rush more the style? Everyone takes squads of 10 models with no transports, hope this helps
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Sep 23, 2019 00:02
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