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Senior Scarybagels posted:Buddhist thread: How I learned to stop worrying and annihilate the self 
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Sep 22, 2019 07:03
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Buddhism Thread 2: Breathing through the Taint for Enlightenment, Pleasure
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Sep 22, 2019 18:39
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Tias posted:Buddhism Thread 2: Breathing through the Taint for Enlightenment, Pleasure or: Dad keeps farting and saying he's "Breathing through his taint."
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Sep 22, 2019 19:25
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Impermanent posted:Thanks to all of you who responded to my wild and scared post from a few months ago, I read all of your replies and thought about them a lot. A couple of weeks after I wrote that post, I was lying down attempting to sleep at night, trying not to wake up my wife, and was flooded by a powerful to the point of distracting sense of... numinous connection to everything, and a kind of compassionate embrace of everything that persisted for something like an hour (or at least it felt like an hour.) I can kind of bring that feeling, or the memory of it, back if I focus on it now. That sounds like a good feeling to be able to re-manifest. The practice is meant to be helpful and ultimately pleasant. I'm also grateful that I heard a dharma talk by a monk who joked that in between discovering Buddhism and becoming a monastic, he would have to sometimes think, "God, I wish I never met Thich Nhat Hanh!" That makes me smile, because I think many practitioners discover with some struggle that carrying a mindfulness of compassion means being willing to touch painful seeds within and around you with tenderness. That is also why it's advised that you don't practice alone, either, and that you mutually cultivate the equanimity and compassion with your loved ones.
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Sep 25, 2019 07:50
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Caufman posted:That sounds like a good feeling to be able to re-manifest. The practice is meant to be helpful and ultimately pleasant. Of course, this is attachment, but it gets socially isolating.
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Sep 25, 2019 07:57
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This discussion touches on a few things that I've been working with recently. I've tried putting my thoughts together into a coherent message a few times and kept starting over; nevertheless, as Dogen says, "we cannot go without making an utterance." Regarding working with painful seeds within and without, that is something I've really been in the midst of recently. When one "turns the light inward," an awful lot is exposed to that light, perhaps for the first time. In my case, what I've discovered bubbling away inside is pretty intense anxiety, on a level I never realized was in there. It's a good thing that it is being brought out into the light — and I feel confident that this is, actually, the only way to fully address the tangle of emotions inside — but it has been a tough process. Over time I've started to settle into a more and more stable half-lotus position, but the flip side to that is that when I get really "locked in" to sitting, anything stewing away in there is going to come out. So, in zazen I've been having some pretty intense anxiety/panic waves come up that have been hard to deal with at times. In a couple of situations during day-long sesshins I've even had to break out of the position because I thought I'd pass out otherwise, which unfortunately just distracts everyone else who is sitting. I guess being sort of "locked-in" to a solid posture triggers some intense "trapped" feelings occasionally, especially when I start experiencing the discomfort/pain that come with multiple periods of zazen in succession. Anyway, it's been a mixed bag, but it does feel cathartic, or like I'm depressurizing in tiny bits over time. It can be problematic though, because the anxiety/panic states, though not that frequent, become associated with zazen in my mind and can make me apprehensive about sitting which is unfortunate (especially in Soto Zen). In any case, I think that it is the only way forward. Another thing I've noticed over time is how navigating the Path has affected how I interact with and feel about the world around me. I feel, somehow, simultaneously that I am much closer to all beings in the ultimate sense; yet in the phenomenal, conditioned world sense I feel increasingly isolated from others, because of the vast gulf between how I see existence and how seemingly everyone else does. These are all just ideas of course, but they've been on my mind. I wonder at times if it is possible anymore for me to have a deep conversation with others, simply because I can't convey the reality I see adequately in words, and I have in a lot of ways shifted away from conventional views of self and so on that guide most people in our society. So, it often feels that conversations end up being that of "speaking past" each other. I'm in no way trying to suggest that I am "better" than others or that I have transcended their level of seeing or whatever, but day-to-day around the city I see people rushing to and fro in a restless, anxious frenzy and I feel a profound sadness at that; it's such an unnecessary continuance of suffering. All I can do is try to show compassion I suppose. I've been wondering lately about Buddhism and romantic relationships, as well. When my girlfriend decided that we should separate recently, she cited as one major element that our world views were too radically different and that we couldn't communicate key ideas. Something that had been bothering her as well was the importance I see in cultivating "grandmotherly love" as Dogen puts it; that is, cultivating a boundless loving-kindness for all beings, which must be free of distinctions. She said that it made her feel less important, which I didn't agree with but couldn't really put into words. Anyway, I didn't see the two as being mutually exclusive, but maybe they are in the end. Does this boundless "grandmotherly love" necessarily supersede romantic love since it ultimately lets go of all possessiveness? Does that mean that a benevolent friendship is the ultimate relationship to have with others? But still, I feel a need for intimacy even though I know it's essentially empty. Suzuki-roshi was married until he died, as with Uchiyama-roshi I believe, so it doesn't seem to be mutually exclusive. Folks in relationships or who are married, any thoughts on this? Not to be too E/N, but I feel that my life has really opened out as of late. I feel that if the trajectory of my practice continues as it has so far, it's not so unlikely that I'll eventually end up pursuing a monastic practice in the future. The dharma feels like the only thing that really truly makes sense these days. I'll be in Japan at the end of the year, and Eihei-ji gave me the green light to stay there overnight to practice, so that should hopefully give me some sort of small view of what an active monastery is like at least. Apologies for the wall of text, may it be of benefit in some way.
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Sep 26, 2019 07:09
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I know nothing first off, but would like to change that. Unfortunately, not much to choose from near me. I'd need to travel 30 minutes via highway to get to the closest place: https://meditationedmonton.org/about-us/modern-buddhism/ This group claims to teach Kadampa Buddhism I think? Would anyone here like to explain what they're about? Also vet the site. I'm hoping they're competent teachers, but knowing nothing myself it's hard to know from a 1st look.
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Sep 26, 2019 09:59
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Nessus posted:I always feel like I'm humblebragging when it comes up, but (on a much lower level, I'm sure) I can relate to that. I know a lot of people who are in a lot of pain and I've often felt guilty because I have felt as though compassion drove me to be in a supportive role in their lives... but it's rough, because I used to be in a different role, and I enjoyed that more. Prob file this under skillful means or something and you probably know this, but what people need in life varies so wildly. Some people need capital C compassion and understanding and patience and some people need someone to stand shoulder to shoulder with them. Often people just go through little periods where they struggle and need more active understanding, whereas if you're around people who habitually are mid-crisis at all times, eventually you have to pull back and just care for yourself as an act of self-compassion, essentially. Finding that balance is really hard as is maintaining it. Keret posted:This discussion touches on a few things that I've been working with recently. I've tried putting my thoughts together into a coherent message a few times and kept starting over; nevertheless, as Dogen says, "we cannot go without making an utterance." Ima commit the cardinal sin of trying to reply seriously while fairly tired, but you bring up some interesting points. quote:Regarding working with painful seeds within and without, that is something I've really been in the midst of recently. When one "turns the light inward," an awful lot is exposed to that light, perhaps for the first time. In my case, what I've discovered bubbling away inside is pretty intense anxiety, on a level I never realized was in there. It's a good thing that it is being brought out into the light — and I feel confident that this is, actually, the only way to fully address the tangle of emotions inside — but it has been a tough process. Over time I've started to settle into a more and more stable half-lotus position, but the flip side to that is that when I get really "locked in" to sitting, anything stewing away in there is going to come out. So, in zazen I've been having some pretty intense anxiety/panic waves come up that have been hard to deal with at times. In a couple of situations during day-long sesshins I've even had to break out of the position because I thought I'd pass out otherwise, which unfortunately just distracts everyone else who is sitting. I guess being sort of "locked-in" to a solid posture triggers some intense "trapped" feelings occasionally, especially when I start experiencing the discomfort/pain that come with multiple periods of zazen in succession. Anyway, it's been a mixed bag, but it does feel cathartic, or like I'm depressurizing in tiny bits over time. It can be problematic though, because the anxiety/panic states, though not that frequent, become associated with zazen in my mind and can make me apprehensive about sitting which is unfortunate (especially in Soto Zen). In any case, I think that it is the only way forward. This is fairly common. One of the peculiarities of trying to sit motionlessly is it makes it immensely apparent how unnatural it is to try to hold onto anything in an unchanging way. As much as people dislike change, remaining static is unpleasant and practically speaking, more or less unnatural. Zazen in particular can be extremely effective for making that very clear. Strong emotions coming up is really common for any number of reasons, people breaking down into tears is probably almost as common as people finding sitting practice blissful. IIRC the general suggestion is to just keep at it for a bit, but if it doesn't start to resolve over time, take a break from sitting for a while. Personally, if I've got a lot going on in my life I'll sometimes almost fall over or have the sensation of it while sitting. Because you're doing sesshins, I take it you have some formal relationship with a teacher? The one on one counsel is really important to making sure you're internalizing the right things from Zen practice as so much of it is easily misinterpreted. Similarly, if you aren't already, seeing a therapist is really helpful anytime someone is going through something that is dredging up very strong emotions. If you're at the point where zazen is just generalized to often be associated with anxiety, I would absolutely bring it up with a qualified teacher if it's time to shift your focus in practice in a different direction for a bit (eg take a few months to exercise a bunch, go to therapy, and read a bunch of sutras or study up on some of the earliest soto lineage poems which are cool af and a ton of people never run into ever). quote:Another thing I've noticed over time is how navigating the Path has affected how I interact with and feel about the world around me. I feel, somehow, simultaneously that I am much closer to all beings in the ultimate sense; yet in the phenomenal, conditioned world sense I feel increasingly isolated from others, because of the vast gulf between how I see existence and how seemingly everyone else does. These are all just ideas of course, but they've been on my mind. I wonder at times if it is possible anymore for me to have a deep conversation with others, simply because I can't convey the reality I see adequately in words, and I have in a lot of ways shifted away from conventional views of self and so on that guide most people in our society. So, it often feels that conversations end up being that of "speaking past" each other. I'm in no way trying to suggest that I am "better" than others or that I have transcended their level of seeing or whatever, but day-to-day around the city I see people rushing to and fro in a restless, anxious frenzy and I feel a profound sadness at that; it's such an unnecessary continuance of suffering. All I can do is try to show compassion I suppose. As an aside, albeit a somewhat pertinent one, Suzuki-roshi was married until a mentally ill student that he took in murdered his wife in 1965. Ironically that seems to have been part of what catapulted him into making sure that tassajara and green gulch were established and I know it was a big wakeup call for a lot of the people around at the time who were being a bit too idealistic about zen practice. On a different note, the grandmotherly thing is good stuff and, tbh, is probably the main thing I personally ultimately took away from zen practice. Granted my idea of grandmotherly is probably more in line with some hard rear end depression era grandmother rather than some chocolate chip cookie baking grandmother, but both are just different forms of nurturing. The encouragement to be grandmotherly is indeed some really good poo poo and frankly extremely central to both soto and rinzai. More importantly: it's also fantastically open ended. There are many, many ways to be grandmotherly. Re the relationships question, yeah I think a lot of people end up losing a relationship when they throw themselves deeply into something new, especially religious practice. Granted it sounds like you both grew apart a bit naturally just as a part of maturation, but also you are obviously preoccupied with the question of how to and how much to dedicate yourself to practice. Until you know what your personal answer to that looks like, that's a ton of uncertainty for someone else to be in a relationship with. I had an ex who was justifiably worried that one day I'd just decide to leave her to go join a monastery and imo it's almost impossible to build a relationship with that degree of uncertainty. At the end of the day, the important question is do you want to be in a relationship and what level of availability can you realistically offer and sustain to a partner. Practice is entirely possible whether you're married or single or loosely co-existing with someone. Just be up front with it. If your priority is practice, be up front about it as you start to build something. Also this should go with out saying, but gently caress equanimity and treating everyone the same: if you're in a relationship with someone fuckin make them feel special sometimes. Equanimity is an ideal, not a prescription for a fulfilling relationship with another person. Like I'd happily argue with anyone who thought it was unbuddhist or something to develop and deepen a feeling of love and connection to another person. quote:Not to be too E/N, but I feel that my life has really opened out as of late. I feel that if the trajectory of my practice continues as it has so far, it's not so unlikely that I'll eventually end up pursuing a monastic practice in the future. The dharma feels like the only thing that really truly makes sense these days. I'll be in Japan at the end of the year, and Eihei-ji gave me the green light to stay there overnight to practice, so that should hopefully give me some sort of small view of what an active monastery is like at least. There's more I'd like to say but I should stfu soon because it's late and I need to get back to bed, but friendly reminder that even if you do the monastic thing, it's just delaying your eventual re-entry into the world. Try not to neglect some connection to that anxious frenzied experience that the vast majority of people are living in day to day, both because it makes the eventual reintegration into society easier but also because what's the point of practicing if you lose sight of what people are going through. I say none of that to discourage you from monasticism and it's cool af you'll get to spend some time at eihei-ji. If they're letting you stay for a night i feel like it's 50/50 you could parley that into a somewhat longer stay if you were so inclined or at least lay the groundwork for a future stay. E: also if you at all have the flexibility for it, full lotus is like 50x more comfortable than half lotus. Even bad full lotus is a big improvement, imo Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 12:01
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64fanatic posted:I know nothing first off, but would like to change that. Unfortunately, not much to choose from near me. I'd need to travel 30 minutes via highway to get to the closest place: I don't follow the Tibetan tradition beyond occasionally attending a local Nyingma center about an hour away, but with all of the taint-breathing going on around here, I'm sure someone could weigh in with more authority. The NKT is pretty sketchy, though. There's the Dorje Shugden disagreement thing in Gelug and the rejection of Tibetan cultural traditions and the weird Chinese funded anti-Dalai Lama stuff, but more so as a group they are pretty culty. Tricycle has a decent article about it. The actual practice or instruction they offer at the centre near you may be fine, I wouldn't know, but I would be aware of all that going in. It looks like there are several other options in Edmonton that you could try as well. I regularly attend a Vietnamese Thiền temple near my home that I enjoy and find immensely helpful. My personal practice is more Theravada oriented, but besides the very small and understated aspect of Pure Land that comes up every now and then at the temple, it meshes quite well.
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Sep 26, 2019 13:41
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Mushika posted:The NKT is pretty sketchy, though. Uh, so you can see why I'm hesitant. Thanks! I won't go! There is a Vietnamese temple, but nothing I found online was in English, so I'm probably not going to that one. Here are others.
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Sep 26, 2019 15:12
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Keret posted:I've been wondering lately about Buddhism and romantic relationships, as well. When my girlfriend decided that we should separate recently, she cited as one major element that our world views were too radically different and that we couldn't communicate key ideas. Something that had been bothering her as well was the importance I see in cultivating "grandmotherly love" as Dogen puts it; that is, cultivating a boundless loving-kindness for all beings, which must be free of distinctions. She said that it made her feel less important, which I didn't agree with but couldn't really put into words. Anyway, I didn't see the two as being mutually exclusive, but maybe they are in the end. Does this boundless "grandmotherly love" necessarily supersede romantic love since it ultimately lets go of all possessiveness? Does that mean that a benevolent friendship is the ultimate relationship to have with others? But still, I feel a need for intimacy even though I know it's essentially empty. Suzuki-roshi was married until he died, as with Uchiyama-roshi I believe, so it doesn't seem to be mutually exclusive. Folks in relationships or who are married, any thoughts on this? They are not mutually exclusive except when they are, is the unfortunately simply complicated answer. At its most basic, romantic love is possessive and motivated by attachment and grasping. When Buddha met King Pasenadi he gave a discourse on this. Thich Nhat Hanh details it in his novelization of the Buddha's life, Old Path, White Clouds. Excerpt follows: quote:“Teacher Gautama, there are people who say you advise people not to love. They say you have said that the more a person loves, the more he will suffer and despair. I can see some truth in that statement, but I am unable to find peace with it. Without love, life would seem empty of meaning. Please help me resolve this.” quote:Not to be too E/N, but I feel that my life has really opened out as of late. I feel that if the trajectory of my practice continues as it has so far, it's not so unlikely that I'll eventually end up pursuing a monastic practice in the future. The dharma feels like the only thing that really truly makes sense these days. I'll be in Japan at the end of the year, and Eihei-ji gave me the green light to stay there overnight to practice, so that should hopefully give me some sort of small view of what an active monastery is like at least. I once thought I should pursue monastic practice and I still might if some unfortunate accident should befall my family. It is noble and good and there is a reason the historical Buddha organized his followers into that institution. It's difficult, however, in the West - we do not have the moral institutions and cultural practices that support monasticism as it ought to be practiced. Most monks I know in the West have either been teachers and thus able to bring in supportive income through teaching, or they have had jobs. If you're practicing in a Japanese tradition, however, they have long since crossed that troublesome bridge, and have ordinations that allow people to marry and pursue families and work and so on while still keeping vows. As a Tibetan practitioner, I am a lay practitioner. Of late my practice has suffered, I have had too many things going on and it has become a real distraction. I am responsible for a baby now and cannot spend hours in the shrine room. But! The practices alone are not the only formative aspect, and the principles are very critical. While I continue to practice within my lineage with devotion, I have a newfound appreciation for the practice of wisdom in our daily lives. That said, the Dharma is more or less all that makes sense. Anything else automatically leads us to dissatisfaction and unhappiness. The Buddha is like a lotus flower, however, who remains unsullied in the muck and filth of the lake. I think good lay practice can be the same. It's certainly much harder, but it's doable. Monasticism is easy mode. Or maybe it's normal mode, and lay-practice is Legendary. Something like that. Paramemetic fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 15:43
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64fanatic posted:Uh, so you can see why I'm hesitant. Thanks! I won't go! Took a look through here for you. I can't speak to the non-Tibetan ones. I've generally found that if a non-Tibetan Buddhist center puts a cultural tradition in its name, they will tend to focus on that ethnic group. That is, "Vietnamese Buddhist Temple" or "Cambodian Buddhist Temple" or so on will generally speaking have services in Vietnamese or Cambodian. They may or may not have English services or translation, and while they won't be unwelcoming, they may not be able to provide much in terms of education or support of practice. That's not a hard and fast rule, but it's true at least in the United States in my experience. For Tibetan centers that is not the case, and it depends on the size of the Tibetan community in the area. If there is a very large Tibetan community they will practice in Tibetan still, but Tibetans absolutely try to promote Buddhism to Westerners. It is a matter of cultural survival for them. The rule of thumb there is that they don't make websites or publicly announce their cultural centers, so if there's an English language website, they want and welcome English language speakers and will practice in English except on days where the Tibetan community gathers. I've been told by Tibetan people that they are often intimidated by Western practitioners because we tend to study things very deeply and they fear being embarrassed if they aren't extremely devout themselves. For this reason the community tends to practice privately. But it's also a thing that lay practitioner Tibetans aren't going to gather weekly for group practices; that's a very Western thing. There are three and a half Tibetan centers on that list. Of them, it looks like two of them are affiliated with the Gelug lineage, which is HHDL's lineage. The other is Karma Tashi Ling, which is in the Karma Kagyu lineage. None of that will matter to a beginning practitioner, so any of them will be good. The "and a half" is that there's a Diamond Way center there. Diamond Way is part of the Karma Kagyu as well, but with some distinctions. First, they are largely Western and their "head" is a Westerner, Ole Nydahl. Diamond Way was started under the auspices of the 16th Karmapa; but another thing now is that they follow the "Shamarpa Karmapa," Thinley Thaye Dorje, rather than the "Tai Situ Karmapa," Orgyen Thinley Dorje. So, why I called Diamond Way "half Tibetan" is that it is a Western organization, but it is a legitimate part of the Karma Kagyu lineage. Why I mention that they follow Shamarpa Karmapa is that if you were to go to Karma Tashi Ling they would almost certainly mean Orgyen Thinley Dorje if they said "Karmapa," whereas at Diamond Way they mean Thinley Thaye Dorje. Anyhow tl;dr all of those centers are good. New Kadampa Tradition have just a ton of baggage. The theological problem with them is that they practice a certain protector spirit who they claim is a fully enlightened being, but there is no basis for that belief that their protector is a fully enlightened being. As a result, the Dalai Lama issued a prohibition against practicing that spirit. To be clear, there are many unenlightened protector spirits that different lineages will practice. For example, I stayed at a monastery with the unenlightened protector Gyalpo Pehar, which is a Gyalpo spirit who was subjugated by Guru Rinpoche and forced to protect monasteries and practitioners. The distinction is that at this monastery, they burned offerings for him nightly (he is a "smell-eater," so this is his food) but he's not an object of refuge. He also gets angry and prevents everyone from sleeping if he's not given those offerings nightly, which enlightened protectors won't do. Anyhow, NKT was originally comprised of Gelugpa who split off when HHDL issued his proclamation against practicing their protector. Then the Chinese government started funneling money into NKT and encouraging them to agitate against HHDL as a political front in order to try to discredit HHDL's efforts in supporting Tibetan independence. After that was found out they supposedly cut ties with China and it's debated whether or not that was something they understood was happening or whether China was using a bunch of fronts and the NKT didn't really see what was going on. Their protector is generally called "that demon" by Tibetans who aren't in the NKT, because there's a perception that the protector basically is taking an opportunity to pretend at enlightenment for his own personal benefit. It's also a common practice to not say or even think his name because he is actually incredibly powerful, and invoking the name draws his attention blah blah superstition. But I mean, I'm a Tibetan astrologer so I can't exactly criticize the superstitions lmao
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Sep 26, 2019 16:23
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https://twitter.com/Relentlessbored...ingawful.com%2F Hey guys what do you think this set of drawers would be originally used for
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Sep 26, 2019 23:14
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Senior Scarybagels posted:https://twitter.com/Relentlessbored...ingawful.com%2F This makes me so angry.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:38
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Thirteen Orphans posted:This makes me so angry. I accept that it has already happened and I can't undo the actions what I want to know is what it was used for
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Sep 26, 2019 23:57
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Senior Scarybagels posted:I accept that it has already happened and I can't undo the actions what I want to know is what it was used for Yeah, especially because if it was used for religious purposes why would it just be “on the curb?”
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Sep 27, 2019 00:00
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It doesn't look like they are drawers, so it looks like a conventional table, but you don't typically use Buddha imagery for tables because people stand over them. There's not enough detail for me to tell where they are from, they look stylistically Chinese or Vietnamese but they could just as well be Tibetan and some of the robes look like they could be. In any case pretty dumb thing to do but it does look like a fetching piece of furniture now, probably would be more so if the walls weren't white but here we are.
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Sep 27, 2019 00:02
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They appear to be simpsons buddhas going off of that shade of yellow The stupid store bought bonzai tree that will surely die in a month of neglect is a nice touch though
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Sep 27, 2019 00:17
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Paramemetic posted:It doesn't look like they are drawers, so it looks like a conventional table, but you don't typically use Buddha imagery for tables because people stand over them. There's not enough detail for me to tell where they are from, they look stylistically Chinese or Vietnamese but they could just as well be Tibetan and some of the robes look like they could be. In any case pretty dumb thing to do but it does look like a fetching piece of furniture now, probably would be more so if the walls weren't white but here we are. My thought was that it was an offering table with storage for incense and such
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Sep 27, 2019 01:31
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Paramemetic posted:Useful words Thank you for the reply, I'll research more now with a few of those recommendations in mind.
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Sep 27, 2019 01:42
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I’ve seen the furniture thing explained elsewhere. Those are the eight Daoist saints. The cabinet is used for storing traditional Chinese medicine and is a well known mass produced model. Nothing of value was lost.
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Sep 27, 2019 06:26
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:I’ve seen the furniture thing explained elsewhere. Those are the eight Daoist saints. The cabinet is used for storing traditional Chinese medicine and is a well known mass produced model. Nothing of value was lost. Do you mean the 8 Immortals? I’ve never seen them depicted like that.
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Sep 27, 2019 06:46
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Thirteen Orphans posted:Do you mean the 8 Immortals? I’ve never seen them depicted like that. Yes. I am not familiar with Daoism, but what I wrote here seemed to be the accepted explanation elsewhere on the forums.
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Sep 27, 2019 07:04
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:Yes. I am not familiar with Daoism, but what I wrote here seemed to be the accepted explanation elsewhere on the forums. Don’t doubt you, just surprised. I have definitely seen analogous furniture used for storing herbs, though.
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Sep 27, 2019 07:21
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I’ll try to add more later today, but some quick thoughts: - having thoughts, sensations, emotions bubble up is very common, especially (but not only) in the beginning; a friend of mine who’s practiced for many years went through pain and panic at a recent sesshin with one of the most remarkable living teachers, for example. - your experience may or may not be in the normal range for this sort of thing and is worth talking over with Taigen, and/or a therapist if the latter is doable. - any kind of sustained or deep spiritual practice can be overwhelmingly powerful, again, especially at the beginning; give it some time to balance out a bit before taking big decisions, and if you feel yourself getting less grounded ease off the accelerator a bit. - over time, the effects of the practice tend to become better integrated; not the same thing, exactly, but a teacher from another tradition used to say that the first samadhi is only the beginning. - my first soto teacher had a long time partner, the teacher of my teacher was married, okumura is married; for most people, having an SO, with all that entails, is a part of the moon reflected in their dewdrop, which is fine. - I personally would love to go to eiheiji ; but bear in mind that the practice there is likely to be quite austere and disciplined (and with a heavier helping of chanting, ritual etc relative to US zen centers), as well as, for obvious reasons, more suffused with Japanese culture; I believe there may have been a documentary about eiheiji, so perhaps worth a youtube / netflix search. - Green Gulch, which has a work / practice orientation, might be worth checking out. I’ve mentioned uchiyama before, but he’s great for remaining connected to daily life and the people in it, just as it is / they are. e: If you'll be in Japan for long enough to squeeze Kyoto in, you *absolutely* should do it. It's replete with temples and other historic buildings (including the old imperial palace), and if you can you'd want (among many other things) to make stops at Kiyomizu-dera (though not a zen temple) and Fushimi Inari (though not Buddhist). e2: The results of practice, and this is and has been true for all spiritual/ contemplative traditions, are almost impossible to communicate. Dogen got close, but even controlling for lapse of time, and changes in idiom and language, his writing is still difficult to digest, and probably near impossible without independent experience of zazen. This, along with the profound changes that can come in the beginning, can make things a bit lonely because they absolutely aren’t relatable to or with most people. But that’s what the sangha is for, it’s ok and the right thing to do to take people as you find them, and in a way it’s not dissimilar to a deeply involving hobby: you may love and spend a lot of time making balsawood race cars, for example, but you wouldn’t regale people about it other than at an event with other hobbyists. Of course that example is a bit unfair, since woodworking need not be life changing in the same way as zen / the paramitas, but you get the idea. Red Dad Redemption fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Sep 28, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 13:40
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I just lurk here, but here's something: https://twitter.com/DevinFitzger/status/1177266083146817536?s=19
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Sep 27, 2019 15:12
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64fanatic's question got me thinking about my own practice. I've thought about bringing it up here before, but honestly was hesitant to do so because I figured no one would want to be bothered by yet another random internet yahoo's boring personal business, so please feel free to ignore. I've been practicing for four or five years now. Mainly I've been going to the local Vietnamese temple and keeping a simplistic home practice. This past year or two has been particularly tumultuous and full of upheaval, and it included almost succumbing to and finally overcoming near-crippling alcoholism and all of the associated anxiety, depression, and many of the other issues that go along with it. The last six months or so have been a complete change, mostly thanks to study and practice, and to a loving and supporting wife who helped me maintain that practice even though she herself doesn't directly share it. While employment and finances are an ongoing problem, I feel physically, emotionally, and mentally healthier than I have in more years than I can remember. I've also been driven to dive into my practice much more deeply, and that's where I've come to a point where I feel I need to make some sort of decision about tradition. I love the Rhinoceros Sutra, but it isn't exactly exemplary advice for a lay practitioner, at least at a basic level. I feel the need to seek out instruction and support within a tradition and stick with it, rather than piecemeal everything together and try to make sense of it on my own. Just the Pali Canon? What about the wisdom in the Parjnaparamitas? How important is esoteric knowledge? What sutras do I take at face value, and which do I simply read as metaphor? How much cultural context am I ignoring that may be intrinsically important that I'm not aware of? How much of a role does language play? I love languages and am not afraid to study them to deepen my understanding, but which ones? Sanskrit? Pali? Tibetan? Classical Chinese? What about meditation techniques and methodology? What am I doing wrong, and am I doing anything beneficial? Strive for Arhatship, or fulfill Bodhisattva vows? I'm so full of questions. My local Vietnamese temple, while welcoming and comforting, doesn't offer much in the way of instruction or anything on a personal level beyond weekly guided group meditation and Dharma talks, which is fine. I'll continue participating there no matter what. There is a local White Plum Zen group, but they seem more interested in monthly book club meetings about Japanese Zen perspectives on modern English literature than much else. The Nyingma Tibetan group I've been a guest with is more than an hour's drive away, and as I'm mostly bound to a motorcycle, weather is a often a serious impediment to travel. That, and Tibetan practice seems to be somewhat daunting and frankly sometimes intimidating, at least in the services I've attended. Beyond that, there isn't much near me to explore. Retreats are beyond my financial means. I've considered online groups, and have had some interactions with Plum Village online "sanghas" which are quite pleasant, but not really helpful. I'm not champing at the bit, but I'm not really sure where to go from here. Mushika fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 18:15
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They're important and somewhat difficult questions. They're difficult because it is a somewhat new thing for the Dharma in general that people have such an abundance of choice. We see it on a smaller scale in Tibetan Buddhism. Westerners learn about all these different traditions then feel they need to settle down into one or the other, and so they have to look for a lineage. Tibetans don't have this problem: they practice their family's lineage, and their family practices the lineage of the local monastery. Bing bong so easy. For us, without strong connections, how do we decide? So it's going to be difficult for anyone to answer those questions without partisanship. "Of course you should take the Bodhisattva vows, the Hinayana arhatship stops short of full enlightenment!" says the Tibetan Buddhist in me, but another might answer that the Bodhisattva ideals are misguided out of attachment to other, and still another might contest there's no hope for arhatship in this degenerate era and we must strive to achieve the Pure Land. So, the best advice I think I can give is to do what you can do, realistically. Whatever opportunities there are, take them. If some center is closer than another, and more reasonable to visit, and you'll more likely visit that than others, then you should do that. If you can find some center or tradition to give you a gradual path, then that's also good, and you should do that. But it sounds like what you're doing is working well! So also don't be too quick to disrupt that by adding more. It's fantastic that the Dharma is working for you and I am encouraged by your story. I wish I could give you some more direct advice, but there are a lot of traditions out there and they all lead to enlightenment. The Buddha taught 84,000 heaps of Dharma because there are innumerable sentient beings with different karmas and different conditions that need different methods. For my part, I will say one key factor is having a Lama. Not necessarily a Tibetan Lama, but some Guru, some spiritual teacher and spiritual friends who can help you with questions like these and others. We don't need to try to walk the path alone. Buddha has given us a roadmap, but we can go forward more confidently with a guide. So, there's that to consider, too. 
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Sep 27, 2019 18:39
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Thirteen Orphans posted:This makes me so angry. All things are impermanent.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:57
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Paramemetic posted:For my part, I will say one key factor is having a Lama. Not necessarily a Tibetan Lama, but some Guru, some spiritual teacher and spiritual friends who can help you with questions like these and others. We don't need to try to walk the path alone. Buddha has given us a roadmap, but we can go forward more confidently with a guide. So, there's that to consider, too. Thank you for responding! This, I think, is my crux. Perhaps it's not so much a tradition I'm looking for as much as someone trusted I can look to for some form of guidance. It's not so much a set of rules to strictly adhere to that I'm looking for, it's someone who can help me put all of this together in a way that is coherent. We have so much information from such a vast span of time and experience with the Dharma now that no one individual in past generations has had like we do now. Eighty-four thousand threads in a fluid web with historical and cultural contexts that can't be revoked from their development, but often can't be reconciled with each other. I found van Schaik's Tibetan Zen fascinating for that very reason. At the same time, I'm just a kinda dumb, simple dude just trying to get by living a simple life and making the world around me better who tends to overthink things.
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Sep 27, 2019 19:35
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Tibetan Zen is a great read, a lot of that work was sponsored and encouraged by HH Chetsang Rinpoche, the head of my lineage, who has also written a very comprehensive history of the Tibetan Empire. You're absolutely right that Tibetan Zen is a great representative of living traditions and their intersections and various windows of time. Tibetan Buddhism focuses heavily on the guru-disciple relationship as the key to attainment, and always encourages that a disciple should "test the Lama like a merchant tests gold." In the interim you're stuck with the problem of trying to make things coherent yourself or committing to a single path and deviating later. One piece of advice that we often give people at my center who are just starting, and which may or may not relate to you (so take or leave it as you please), is that a person should stick to one lineage at first until at least finishing the preliminaries. Otherwise, it's very easy to get a lot of conflicting information and the mix of different approaches can cause great confusion. So, when you decide what approach you like, stick with it until such time as something else speaks out. That can help with the coherence a bit, but maybe doesn't address the main problem.
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Sep 27, 2019 19:54
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Paramemetic posted:Tibetan Zen is a great read, a lot of that work was sponsored and encouraged by HH Chetsang Rinpoche, the head of my lineage, who has also written a very comprehensive history of the Tibetan Empire. You're absolutely right that Tibetan Zen is a great representative of living traditions and their intersections and various windows of time. Thanks for the advice. I'll think about that. I may give the Tibetan center another try. It's a Katog Choling center under Khentrul Lodro Thaye Rinpoche. I'm not sure about much more than that, but the people there are pleasant and welcoming.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:44
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Mushika posted:Thanks for the advice. I'll think about that. I may give the Tibetan center another try. It's a Katog Choling center under Khentrul Lodro Thaye Rinpoche. I'm not sure about much more than that, but the people there are pleasant and welcoming. The prayer at the top of the website is correctly translated without any weird poetic embellishment and that alone is enough for me to give them props lmao
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Sep 27, 2019 20:48
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Paramemetic posted:So it's going to be difficult for anyone to answer those questions without partisanship. "Of course you should take the Bodhisattva vows, the Hinayana arhatship stops short of full enlightenment!" says the Tibetan Buddhist in me, but another might answer that the Bodhisattva ideals are misguided out of attachment to other, and still another might contest there's no hope for arhatship in this degenerate era and we must strive to achieve the Pure Land. In the 40 Tenets of Plum Village, Thich Nhat Hanh wrote, "The true arhat is also a bodhisattva, and the true bodhisattva is also an arhat." And that's how you thien your way out of that dichotomy! edit: That also reminds me that last month, my dad casually mentioned that he's been watching dhamma talks online by an Indonesian Theravada monk, Bhante Uttamo. Because even along the Buddhist path, my pops and I are going to be different
Caufman fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Sep 28, 2019 |
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Sep 28, 2019 04:29
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Caufman posted:In the 40 Tenets of Plum Village, Thich Nhat Hanh wrote, "The true arhat is also a bodhisattva, and the true bodhisattva is also an arhat." I do appreciate the way TNH and Vietnamese Thiền in general seems to incorporate Theravada and Ch'an without really missing a beat. I really benefit from Theravada practice, but it's strict adherence to what seems to me to be a historically false orthodoxy does seem to be, I don't know, needlessly exclusionary? The sectarianism that gave rise to the Mahayana/Theravada schism isn't nearly as simple and cut and dried as modern divisions would have everyone believe. The "schism" itself is really more of a modern dichotomy, relatively, and far more complicated historically. That being said, I love my Pali Canon, but you can pry my Prajñāpāramitā Hṛdaya from my cold, dead hands. Speaking of attachments, I recognize the value of ritual, but one of the things that kind of turns me off of Tibetan practice is the vastly ritualistic approach as compared to other streams of Buddhist practice. Am I misinterpreting my very limited experience in that respect, Paramemetic?
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Sep 29, 2019 22:11
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You can be a tibetan buddhist with almost no ritual, but if you want to get into like, the advanced practices or some of the tantric stuff it's idk, not even really separable from ritual? The ritual is how it is preserved and taught and learned. If someone wants to be a monk or work towards eventually being a teacher or lama in a given tradition, yeah it's going to be a thing. Like you can be someone who practices non-harm and says a lot of manis and probably never experience a single ritual in your life and be a generally respectable buddhist practitioner, but idk not a lot of westerners seem to aspire to that. There's a whole thing where in the non-tibetan conception of tibetan buddhism, the advanced stuff is seen as the basic stuff or people just want to get around to the advanced stuff already, who really needs ngondro That said, pretty much every branch of Buddhism has a lot of ritual once you get into the organized formal side of it. Religion and ritual are nearly inseparable, if not explicitly so. Like Zen, for all it's reputation for irreverent anachronistic poo poo is wildly, insanely formalized into ultra-precise rituals. Personally I don't think ritual is bad so long as everyone involved is on board with the purpose and the methods of the ritual, but a lot of people do have a very strong negative response towards ritual. as usual, he'll probably have a good explanation for you with some more detail. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 00:48
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I understand that ritual is a necessary part of practice. I welcome it. But what body of ritual? What tradition, what lineage? Should I trust myself with these questions, or do I put my trust in someone else? I guess one huge question I have to ask of myself and answer to myself is, what do I want? I'm not going to make any milestones towards liberation in this life. I know that. My attachments run too deep. More than anything, I love my wife far more than my desire for the path of monasticism. Sorry, self-that-is-not-self, that's just going to have to wait for another go around or two. I'm just trying to live a good life and help those around me. The Dharma is very good in that respect, but I know that I can learn more than simply watching YouTube dhamma talks and focusing my breath on my upper lip. E: Thanks for your reply, Herstory. I do appreciate it. Mushika fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 02:13
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So ritual in Tibetan Buddhism is important but it's also not important at all. As with all things Buddhism, the answer is pretty much "it's complicated." Like Herstory said, there's actually a big disconnect and a kind of ... misperception, I guess, about what Tibetan Buddhism "is like," because what Tibetan Budhdism "is like" with regards to it's transmission to the West is... how monks practice it in monasteries. So we've got full-time religious professionals telling us about how to practice Dharma when in reality Tibetan laypeople exist on a spectrum of practice that ranges from "I only hold the precept against killing, and I make offerings on the high holidays" to "I am a full time lay yogi completing the 60th year of my retreat" and everything in between. So, I think it would be in error to say you have to do ritual to practice Tibetan Buddhism, you can more or less just accept the Mahamudra or Dzogchen approaches as valid and then say "alright, cool, so I'll get around to doing that in one of my lifetimes." But the reason it has this strongly ritual appearance is what is transmitted to the West is the stuff of people who are in the full-time religious class. This also isn't as cut and dry as people think. What matters is the lineage transmission, which is the unbroken chain of Lama-disciple teachings and lessons. When these things were being developed, they were relatively informal. Milarepa's ngondro (preliminary practices) was building a bunch of towers for Marpa to purify his negative karma from using sorcery to murder a village. Naropa's guru yoga practice was essentially Tilopa giving Naropa an escalating series of dares that often ended up with Naropa nearly or actually dying just for Tilopa to heal him and go "wow good devotion, nice work." However, as the monastic institutions grew in Tibet, and after Mila's student Gampopa decided to be a monk instead of a lay-yogi, the poo poo eventually grew to a point where it needed standardized. This isn't necessarily a bad thing of like, industrialization, but meant basically to set minimums so that especially precocious students who attained with very little effort weren't seen as more (or less) legit than dudes who needed to do a lot of poo poo. The formal numbers all came off the biggest one: Vajrasattva's aspiration prayer was that any being that practiced him would purify negative karmas, and the number 100,000 was floated in one of the texts as being sufficient to purify even the heinous sins. So everyone basically did 100,000 Vajrasattvas. Because of that, they went "yeah, 100,000 of everything seems like a good number, let's formalize it there." In the monasteries, that ngondro takes a few months for most because their full-timers. For lay practitioners in the West it typically takes a couple years. Ironically, Herstory makes a very keen point that a lot of Westerners want to get right to The Real poo poo, but The Real poo poo eventually gets to the point of not needing any ritual at all, whereas ngondro is almost entirely about just doing hell of rituals in order to "prepare the vessel" to be able to receive teachings. But the thing is, doing rituals doesn't liberate a person. You can recite the guru yoga a million times and not receive a single benefit if you don't have the explanatory teachings that let you operationalize the guru yoga's lessons. You can do a billion Vajrasattva mantras and not purify a single negative deed if you don't apply the four practices of dependence, regret, remedy, and restraint. And ultimately the generation and completions stages of yoga are about using those rituals as a tool to achieve a result, and then leaving the tool behind once you stop needing it. Relying on the tool of ritual after you've reached the completion stage of meditative absorption in emptiness is just another useless fetter. As converts to Tibetan Buddhism we often compare ourselves to who we perceive as other practitioners, but in fact we're looking at literal monks and thinking "that's how you practice this religion." Well, it's how monks practice, yes, but it's not unlike a convert to Catholicism going "welp, I guess I have to get ordained and perform masses every day..." The tantric Buddhist approach to attaining enlightenment does include ritual, but the rituals are tools, they don't have any power on their own. It's only when they are practiced as part of an unbroken lineage that they can bring additional blessings than those that come from meditation. It always comes down to our own mind. For me, ritual is very helpful because it occupies my active mind and gives me something to focus on. But for example when my son was born I stopped practicing daily in the shrine room because now I have to watch him in the mornings. My practice has suffered somewhat as a result, but I can do those same rituals without any of the physical supports through meditating them alone, simply visualizing the parts I need to visualize and also visualizing the things I would do physically, for example.
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Sep 30, 2019 06:05
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Mushika posted:I understand that ritual is a necessary part of practice. I welcome it. But what body of ritual? What tradition, what lineage? Should I trust myself with these questions, or do I put my trust in someone else? I guess one huge question I have to ask of myself and answer to myself is, what do I want? I'm not going to make any milestones towards liberation in this life. I know that. My attachments run too deep. More than anything, I love my wife far more than my desire for the path of monasticism. Sorry, self-that-is-not-self, that's just going to have to wait for another go around or two. I'm just trying to live a good life and help those around me. The Dharma is very good in that respect, but I know that I can learn more than simply watching YouTube dhamma talks and focusing my breath on my upper lip. Within a Tibetan Buddhist context, the answer is "whatever your spiritual master has told you, or if you do not have a spiritual master, don't worry about it because you should be finding a spiritual master first." The Lama is extremely important in Tibetan Buddhism. The mind needs a stable foundation on which to rest, and the Lama is that foundation. We need someone we can depend on and rely on, and that someone is the Lama. It isn't that the Lama is someone we should rely on for our worldly needs, of course, but the Lama is someone we rely on for our spiritual needs. We rely on the Lama for guidance and teaching and to be a stable thing when the rest of the world is not. The Lama is the rock and the refuge and the port in the storm of samsara. If you consider the Buddhadharma to be a roadmap to enlightenment, the Lama is a guide who walks the path with us to make sure we don't make wrong turns. So, what body of ritual? What tradition? What lineage? The Lama's lineage, of which you become a part, and that is their tradition and so their body of ritual. A lot of people have some experience of recognizing the "Lama of many lifetimes," sometimes immediately, sometimes slowly. When I met my Lama, I did not know it at first. Later I saw a video with the Gyalwang Drukpa, who I was immediately called to, I immediately recognized a connection. It wasn't until months later that I learned my Lama was a Drukpa monk as a child before he joined my lineage. I knew then that he had been my teacher for many lifetimes, and this was even after I'd been serving as his attendant. I still remember my first conversation with him, saying I didn't really feel a strong connection to Drikung Kagyu, and his advice to me being "just practice this lineage until you find the one you think is right." It turns out, by practicing that one, it became the one that was right. Funny how this works! So, you just practice what works and go from there. Do what you can without worrying too much. And don't worry about being a monk!!! Consider the Kagyu masters: Tilopa, Naropa, Marpa, Milarepa, Gampopa; of them, only Naropa and Gampopa were ordained. Tilopa made sesame oil for a brothel while learning from the Dakinis. Marpa was a warlord. Milarepa was an ascetic yogi. .... aaaalso I think I've discussed before my gripes about the Tibetan term "phowa" for "projection" referring to projecting your consciousness out of your body being interpreted by Western translators as some kind of metaphor or some poo poo. Then in the course of looking up if Marpa was a warlord or just a rich guy (lmao these are the same things it's feudal Tibet), I found out that Marpa had a son named Darma Dode. When Marpa's son died in an accident, Marpa used his miracle powers to keep him alive long enough to teach him to project his consciousness into dead bodies. Then Darma Dode transferred his consciousness into a recently deceased pigeon, flew to India, found a recently deceased child, and transferred into that body. Then he took care of that kid's parents until they died, went back to Tibet, and taught some poo poo to one of Milarepa's students. The academics are sitting around discussing how rituals are just psychological tools meanwhile the Kagyu Masters are out there fuckin' body jumping.
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Sep 30, 2019 06:31
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I think I've asked this question before, apologies if it's a repeat. How does one do meditation if one also has lifelong issues with dissociation?
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Sep 30, 2019 10:37
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