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The Bee posted:I'm actually really curious to know what Harry Potter did so right but Star Wars did so wrong. They were actively trying to get people not to come. Disneyland is very much a locals park; the majority of it's visitors are annual pass holders and people who live in Southern California. Given that, they blocked out all passes except for the top two most expensive, blocked employees from visiting the park, blocked employees from being able to invite guests, and raised the 1-park single day ticket from $135 to $149. On top of that they instituted a reservation system to get into Galaxy's Edge the first month and put up huge signs in the parking structure, Downtown Disney, and the surrounding streets saying you won't be able to get in if you don't have a reservation while warning people on social media to expect huge crowds. All of this combined worked a little too well and come June the place was deserted. They tried to backtrack and started allowing employees in again, ran a promotion during August where pass holders could get park hopper tickets for friends for $99, and started flooding social networks with "come to Disneyland, it's empty!" but it was too late. The regulars started coming back (the park is right back to being stupid busy again), but the actual tourists are not interested in going anymore. They just went a little bit too overboard with crowd control.
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Sep 24, 2019 20:24
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https://twitter.com/alexweprin/status/1176562680980807688
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Sep 24, 2019 20:26
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The most expensive ticket to Disney World in 2009 was $79. Now that same ticket is $159. They did want to price people out of going to reduce overcrowding, but there is going to be a limit.
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Sep 24, 2019 20:38
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What’s fantastic about Galaxy’s Edge is that they’re gearing to do it again next year with their Marvel Land. It will open up with one average looking ride, too many shops and restaurants, and the ride that people will be excited to go on isn’t opening until well afterwards. They need to realize that people would prefer to wait longer for a complete experience, rather than a piecemeal one.
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Sep 24, 2019 20:44
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That one will always be half-assed because they can't build it in Florida due to Universal Studio's Marvel licencing deal there. That's the reason Guardians of the Galaxy was the first Marvel property to get a ride - they were some of the few MCU characters not included in that deal due to them being totally unknown before the movie was made.
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Sep 24, 2019 20:49
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The Bee posted:I'm actually really curious to know what Harry Potter did so right but Star Wars did so wrong. I'm convinced it's because HP (and Marvel) has a significantly younger audience. Yes, kids watch SW movies too, but those are nowhere the cultural touchstone for them as the franchises which started recently and with which they grew up. Meanwhile, if you were around 10 when the original Star Wars movies came out, you're now 50+ years old. Will those people go to Disney parks? Some might. They also have mortgages and high blood pressure and are extremely upset about things online. Their high school-aged children won't be clamoring to go to Disney parks anyway, least of all when you consider that their exposure to SW would, at best, have probably started with the lovely prequels. And even the new SW movies' audiences were apparently only 20% composed of families which... yikes, yet unsurprising. I'm sure Disney crunched the numbers which all prove my theorizing to be junk. I just feel like they built a kids' park attraction based on a franchise mostly revered by adults.
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Sep 24, 2019 21:21
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Nah there's a huge audience of middle-aged moms that love Harry Potter
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Sep 24, 2019 21:23
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Exactly, having been exposed to it through their kids who read the books and saw the movies. But if the kids aren't into Rey/Finn/et al as much, then the moms won't be either.
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Sep 24, 2019 21:27
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Gann Jerrod posted:What’s fantastic about Galaxy’s Edge is that they’re gearing to do it again next year with their Marvel Land. It will open up with one average looking ride, too many shops and restaurants, and the ride that people will be excited to go on isn’t opening until well afterwards. They need to realize that people would prefer to wait longer for a complete experience, rather than a piecemeal one.
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Sep 24, 2019 21:42
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Trabant posted:Exactly, having been exposed to it through their kids who read the books and saw the movies. Nah man, the first Harry Potter book came out 22 years ago. Those middle aged moms are people like me who read the books back in the day. Hell if I had ever had kids, I'd be a middle aged mom into Harry Potter now.
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Sep 24, 2019 21:50
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Gann Jerrod posted:They need to realize that people would prefer to wait longer for a complete experience, rather than a piecemeal one. But then how would any video game publisher ever make any money ever again?
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Sep 24, 2019 22:11
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OK, that's true. poo poo's older than I thought at this point. Still starts with the kids though -- whether when you were one and formed the love of the franchise through the books/movies, or when your own kids badger you into buying them the books or taking them to the movies. That's why I think Star Wars is missing a great deal compared to any franchise which established itself in the last 20 years. Things might've been different if they hadn't crapped the bed with the prequel trilogy, at least in terms of actually growing a new fan base.
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Sep 24, 2019 22:15
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It's important to contextualize that Disney's theme parks are still doing better than Universal. So while HP is a smash, it's only driving about half the number of people to attend the parks. I think a lot of it is that Universal Studios is 1)Cheaper 2) Harry Potter fans have never really been given this ultimate fan service before, whereas Star Wars fans have saturated at this point.
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Sep 24, 2019 22:17
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uli2000 posted:But then how would any video game publisher ever make any money ever again? By just making a game and selling it, a strategy which is still perfectly viable if you don’t insist that players be able to spend an infinite amount of money on your game.
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Sep 24, 2019 22:31
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Another factor against Star Wars is that the prequels kinda poisoned the well for a generation. There were far more adult Star Wars fans than child fans; the marketing blitz from the prequels meant that there were kids who enjoyed the property. But none of these kids were as invested in Obi Wan and Padame as their 70's and 80's counterparts were with Han and Leia. As a millennial who was in the pocket of the prequels, I only cared about Star Wars as far as "Lightsabers are cool." At that age I was far more invested in the anime dubs you'd find playing on kid's TV. I imagine that's a pretty common story too.
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Sep 24, 2019 22:36
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The one good thing about super expensive tickets is that if you're already paying $200 a pop to get into the park what's about $80 in sodas and $150 in crappy food? Disneyworld. Come enjoy your sunk costs.
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Sep 24, 2019 23:49
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My immediate gut reaction about Galaxy’s Edge was basically “You need a reservation on top of a park ticket for one ride and a bunch of cool looking holes to throw your money into? Nah brah.” I’m also in the process of reading the Harry Potter books to my kids before bed. We’re halfway through Chamber Of Secrets and I’m realizing a thing I absolutely didn’t remember when I read the books in high school and college: they’re boring as gently caress! I’m actively bummed out by that! The Wizard World is full of absolute weiners and child abuse.
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Sep 25, 2019 01:04
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Krispy Wafer posted:The one good thing about super expensive tickets is that if you're already paying $200 a pop to get into the park what's about $80 in sodas and $150 in crappy food? They're about to get sunker. $150 in food is basically one days food for a family of 4, and even that is low balling it. A "meal" of lovely spaghetti and meatballs is $20. If you do the math on a 4 day Disney vacation even factoring in trying to save money a family of 4, 2 adults 2 children, could be as much as $5k, easily higher if air travel is involved. Disney had a large amount of their in house labor force doing actual food preparation and cooking. Now, they're rapidly shifting over to bringing in all frozen poo poo from Sysco or equivalents and cutting back on their food service staff considerably. The food is going to start getting far worse for higher prices. There's been some bad blood between Disneyland and the Anaheim City Council in the last 2-3 years as the board finally reached a majority with people willing to push back against all of Disney's insane demands for tax breaks and incentives. Who knows that happens next, but a lot of long term "$500 million tax break" style incentives were yanked by the city and Disney cancelled a bunch of super expensive projects in the city including their cancellation of their new planned luxury 700 room Disneyland hotel. Tall Tale Teller posted:My immediate gut reaction about Galaxy’s Edge was basically “You need a reservation on top of a park ticket for one ride and a bunch of cool looking holes to throw your money into? Nah brah.” I've heard second hand from Disney staff that the loss of revenue from the low summer attendance were so severe they lacked money to rehire departing staff in some areas. It was a colossal gently caress up that people are really having to eat poo poo for including that exec who just resigned.
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Sep 25, 2019 01:17
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Kinda surprised to hear the city council was in Disney’s pocket up until now. It’s not like they can just pick up the park and move it elsewhere if they don’t get the tax breaks they want.
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Sep 25, 2019 01:42
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Ariong posted:Kinda surprised to hear the city council was in Disney’s pocket up until now. It’s not like they can just pick up the park and move it elsewhere if they don’t get the tax breaks they want. On the other hand they are by far the largest employer and bringer of cold hard cash in the area, so that gives them a ton of leverage.
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Sep 25, 2019 01:53
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Don Gato posted:On the other hand they are by far the largest employer and bringer of cold hard cash in the area, so that gives them a ton of leverage. https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/09/16/disneyland-southern-california-economy/ quote:ANAHEIM (CBSLA) — The “happiest place on Earth” added billions of dollars to the Southern California economy. Disney basically owned and bankrolled the Anaheim city council for decades, the tide is turning, but the truth is Disneyland can't move and Anaheim has major internal city issues that all the fawning and groveling to Disney has made worse. There's areas where there is a chain link fence separating a simple neighborhood from a massive homeless gathering area. They removed the bus stop benches directly across from Disneyland to discourage homeless from sleeping there, but they just moved to the grass. Every single hotel in Anaheim has had recurring issues with homeless coming on property and having to be walked off. And these are just some of the things obvious to anyone in the immediate disney area There's a dark underbelly to all the glitz and glamour of Disney in the city that started to push the voters to finally vote in people promising to fix social and infrastructure problems and stop bending over backwards to give Disney major tax breaks that even the most understated analysis project are a net loss for city revenue.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:07
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Ariong posted:Kinda surprised to hear the city council was in Disney’s pocket up until now. It’s not like they can just pick up the park and move it elsewhere if they don’t get the tax breaks they want.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:13
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pentyne posted:Disney had a large amount of their in house labor force doing actual food preparation and cooking. Now, they're rapidly shifting over to bringing in all frozen poo poo from Sysco or equivalents and cutting back on their food service staff considerably. The food is going to start getting far worse for higher prices. That was what killed Disney parks for me. I expect to spend a lot of money. $15 for a slice of pizza and a drink? Sure. But the slice of small pizza is a doughy sponge with a dab of sauce. At least make a effort to add some semblance of value. As people have noted, it’s possible to raise prices and still make more money. It’s also possible to lower some prices and make more money. The concessions at our two new gleaming and largely unnecessary sporting arenas are surprisingly cheap. I think they’re the lowest or second lowest in the country. As a result people are spending more money at the venue instead of eating dinner or lunch beforehand. But I guess Disney doesn’t have to worry about that unless you’re carbo loading in the parking lot.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:18
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Tall Tale Teller posted:My immediate gut reaction about Galaxy’s Edge was basically “You need a reservation on top of a park ticket for one ride and a bunch of cool looking holes to throw your money into? Nah brah.” I reread them as an adult around 5 years ago and the good news is that they get much better around book four when Voldy comes back and pieces start getting laid for the final conflict. But to tie it back to the whole theme park thing, those first few books do do a good job of building a unique world that people would want to step into even 20 years on. Star Wars is fighting against its own relevance by this point, and that's something a really engaging space with good theming could have pushed through but instead they put out a rushed product and then told people not to go.
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Sep 25, 2019 04:21
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Harry Potter was first published in 1997, so there are people who grew up with the series in their 30's right now. I remember that small window where the books were popular without the help of the movies. Edit: Come to think of it, I kind of miss that time, back when the Harry Potter books were these fun fantasy books that I loved to read, and I would play pretend with my friends at school that we went to Hogwarts, and I was exited to find out what happened next. Now it's this huge cultural monolith, and the fun innocent part gets lost among all the nostalgia pandering and merchandising. Of course, that can be said about a lot of things I liked as a kid. Space Robot has a new favorite as of 05:20 on Sep 25, 2019 |
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Sep 25, 2019 05:09
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umalt posted:Another factor against Star Wars is that the prequels kinda poisoned the well for a generation. There were far more adult Star Wars fans than child fans; the marketing blitz from the prequels meant that there were kids who enjoyed the property. But none of these kids were as invested in Obi Wan and Padame as their 70's and 80's counterparts were with Han and Leia. I do wonder how long til we get Dragon Ball Land.
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Sep 25, 2019 05:19
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I do wonder how long til we get Dragon Ball Land. Looking forward to the 1:1 Snake Way recreation.
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Sep 25, 2019 05:40
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Detective No. 27 posted:Looking forward to the HFIL recreation.
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Sep 25, 2019 09:32
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pentyne posted:They're about to get sunker. I actually think that outsourcing their food might be better overall for food quality (obviously very lovely for local jobs), just because Disney was never going to spend the money on labor or ingredients to actually make good food for that many people. Those Sysco style companies probably make better frozen food than most of what Disney was making themselves,.
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Sep 25, 2019 10:02
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They literally said that it’s worse in their post.
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Sep 25, 2019 10:24
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Rick posted:I actually think that outsourcing their food might be better overall for food quality (obviously very lovely for local jobs), just because Disney was never going to spend the money on labor or ingredients to actually make good food for that many people. Those Sysco style companies probably make better frozen food than most of what Disney was making themselves,. Disney World supplies it's restaurants from on-site hydroponic gardens and fish farming operations. Chicken fingers and hot dogs will be what they've always been, but the mid-level restaurants are going to get hit hard if they're switching over to Sysco. The food wasn't anything exciting but it made up for it by being good quality and cooked well.
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Sep 25, 2019 11:09
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shadowvine118 posted:Harry Potter was first published in 1997, so there are people who grew up with the series in their 30's right now. I remember that small window where the books were popular without the help of the movies. Harry Potter already has some mediocre prequels, give it 10 or so years and it'll be in the same boat as Star Wars 
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Sep 25, 2019 12:18
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Iron Crowned posted:Harry Potter already has some mediocre prequels, give it 10 or so years and it'll be in the same boat as Star Wars In 10 years there will be a streaming grittier realistic school drama series reboot based on HP
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Sep 25, 2019 17:11
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Last Chance posted:In 10 years there will be a streaming grittier realistic school drama series reboot based on HP Lev Grossman has beaten you to this by a long, long time.
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Sep 25, 2019 17:36
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buddhist nudist posted:If they're small enough, definitely. I think you're On The Right Track. https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0082849/
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Sep 25, 2019 17:40
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food court bailiff posted:Lev Grossman has beaten you to this by a long, long time.  the books own
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Sep 25, 2019 17:40
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Last Chance posted:In 10 years there will be a streaming grittier realistic school drama series reboot based on HP I'm honestly more surprised they never did an animated series. Maybe Rowling wouldn't sign off on the creative license the writers would need to fill out whole episodes.
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Sep 25, 2019 19:31
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Maybe an animated series would have hosed up her whole "I didn't say Hermione wasn't black..." bullshit.
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Sep 25, 2019 19:38
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shadowvine118 posted:Come to think of it, I kind of miss that time, back when the Harry Potter books were these fun fantasy books that I loved to read, and I would play pretend with my friends at school that we went to Hogwarts, and I was exited to find out what happened next. Now it's this huge cultural monolith, and the fun innocent part gets lost among all the nostalgia pandering and merchandising. Of course, that can be said about a lot of things I liked as a kid. This is totally my pet peeve, but I super hate that 'nostalgia' has shifted definitions away from being a melancholy sort of homesickness for times and experiences that it's impossible to replicate, to the point where you're describing how nostalgia destroys itself, ugh
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Sep 25, 2019 20:17
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there wolf posted:Disney World supplies it's restaurants from on-site hydroponic gardens and fish farming operations. Chicken fingers and hot dogs will be what they've always been, but the mid-level restaurants are going to get hit hard if they're switching over to Sysco. The food wasn't anything exciting but it made up for it by being good quality and cooked well. This is cool I didn't even know that. I hardly ever eat at Disneyland and I think it's mainly been the fast food stuff when I've had it and it was pretty mediocre. I guess I need to look for these better places. Actually that's not 100% true, I had a boxed lunch thing a couple years ago when I bought a VIP seat to the Electrical Parade when I let them fool me into thinking they were retiring it, and the food was good.
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Sep 25, 2019 20:18
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