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The Joker represents random voilence and delights in using terror on the innocent. John Wick is responding to an attack and isn't killing innocent people. There's a difference.
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Sep 27, 2019 13:22
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Am I the only one that read "why is this different thing different" as a joke, and not actually asking the question?
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Sep 27, 2019 13:26
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Fangz posted:Am I the only one that read "why is this different thing different" as a joke, and not actually asking the question? No, but a lot of people in this thread are clearly extremely invested in white knighting chuds so they didn't notice.
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Sep 27, 2019 13:29
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Nodosaur posted:Also someone who dressed up like the Joker and professed him to be an influence has already gone into a theater and killed someone. Incorrect
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Sep 27, 2019 13:38
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John Wick is a supremely well-trained assassin who follows things like rules and codes of honour and goes on a rampage of mob-on-mob violence after someone kills his dog, an innocent creature and a symbol of his wife's love and his last tether to a life of not killing anymore. Definitely the same as the Joker, an infamous mass murderer of innocent people whose infamy and apparent invincibility despite being nothing more than a literal clown come from an attitude of not giving a gently caress about anyone and treating everything as a joke after finally snapping from being poo poo on his whole life.
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Sep 27, 2019 13:40
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Nodosaur posted:Also someone who dressed up like the Joker and professed him to be an influence has already gone into a theater and killed someone. oh my god this is like the third time in this thread this has been said it's not true, it's not real, the aurora shooter was not dressed like the joker
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Sep 27, 2019 13:42
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Hm. My mistake. There was some wildly inaccurate reporting going on around that time, it seems. My fault for not being up to date.
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Sep 27, 2019 13:52
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Blockhouse posted:oh my god this is like the third time in this thread this has been said Please louder to the people on the back. Nodosaur posted:Hm. My mistake. There was some wildly inaccurate reporting going on around that time, it seems. My fault for not being up to date. I think it was never stated the guy was dressed as the Joker during the first reports, I'm gonna guess the false information came later. I know we all hate chuds and hate violence, but at least lets check our sources. Anyway, I'm bracing myself for all the spoilers coming from social media these next weeks. Infinity War was spoiled by someone complaining about Thor's allegedly fat-phobia, wouldn't be surprised if it happens again -complaining about the bad representation of mental illness is valid as hell and is actually the subject that makes me weary of the movie-.
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Sep 27, 2019 14:01
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I have chuds but I love violence Violence against chuds
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Sep 27, 2019 14:15
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:I have chuds but I love violence
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Sep 27, 2019 14:18
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Desperado Bones posted:Punching nazis in the face should be a sport. Ir used to be our national loving pastime.
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Sep 27, 2019 14:38
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The main thing is that Phillips' claims of "John Wick kills people too" is just a weirdly dumb take for a guy who kind of stealth said that his Joker film is the first "real" film made from a comic book. I would expect him to be smarter if that were the case. As others have noted, it's just a bad comparison. A film about a hardened assassin killing unsympathetic criminal characters, is different from a film about someone who feels unseen, misunderstood, and victimized self-actualizing through violence against innocent people. There are many other films that would make a better comparison. Phillips' comments are just dumb, but hey, we all say dumb stuff from time to time. The thing with the Joker is that as a character, there's an element of power fantasy for those who wish to pursue it. He's tragic in some respects, he's feared (i.e respected), he's got serious hang ups with social norms, and is almost always depicted as the smartest guy in the room. His philosophy is often portrayed as being seductive, though most Batman media results in his philosophy being proven wrong. I don't know how this film is gonna take it, but though I think that claims that it will inspire a shooting are overblown, and incendiary in their own way. I also think it's fair to criticize such a film as being vulgar or in bad taste, if it exonerates or glamourizes the character's crimes. Karloff fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 14:51
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I really think the most damning thing about this movie is all the dumb statements coming from the director and from the lead actor, when compared to how "deep" and "smart" it's supposed to be.
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Sep 27, 2019 14:57
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I don't think many people (in this thread) are literally saying "The Joker movie is bad because it will make people violently imitate the Joker." In many cases being ethically bankrupt can make a movie bad on its own. Like, how come people don't sit down with a bowl of popcorn and watch Birth of a Nation anymore? It's not because they're worried it will brainwash them into joining the KKK. It's because it isn't fun to watch something morally repugnant. I don't think, "Oh, Manhattan is well-made but I just don't want to risk being turned into a pedophile." No, I just don't want to watch a movie about an adult sentimentally loving a child, and even if I don't think it would, like, flip some evil switch in me, I still don't want the icky residue of sitting through it on my soul for however many days. There are so many others, even little elements that profoundly damage otherwise inoffensive or even good movies! The yellow-face in Breakfast at Tiffany's, the white-savior stuff in Avatar, dozens of movies with racist and misogynist topoi like the "magical negro" or "manic pixie dream girl" that just became easy shorthand for decades because thinking clearly and honestly about race and gender is more difficult than just picking a lazy stereotype off the rack. None of these movies had the legitimate miasma of moral panic that the Joker movie does, and I think some of the takes that really seem convinced that this dumb-looking film will inspire real-world violent are coming from kind of a Puritan-prurient place, a kind of lusty frenzy for moral grandstanding. But I do think it looks completely boring, like its ideas about marginalization and violence come from the most banal and mopey places possible. I think it looks like bad art. I don't think people are silly putty idiots who let the last thing they watch indelibly imprint on them and command them to do whatever. I also don't think art is a neutral presence in the world, and I think any encounter with art, good or bad, leaves some trace on the viewer-- you know, part of why representation and diversity is good in casting, and padding scripts with homophobic and sexist jokes is bad. Art's a primary vector for how people encounter the world, and a valuable one in which they get to see conflict and ambiguity modeled for them. So I do absolutely think art has some sort of ethical dimension, albeit a complicated and not at all unambiguous one-- my favorite poet spent her life insisting WWI and WWII were worth it because the trauma she incurred during them helped her understand telepathy better, which is a monstrous position, but she also writes beautiful, true things, and posits fascinating and complex new ways of imagining sexuality, so you know, very often you can't just dump things in the Good Bin or the Bad Bin. That's why criticism manifests itself in essays and not bar graphs. That being said-- nothing about this Joker movie looks interesting to me. It looks like an undergrad final project borrowing the most superficial schticks from Martin Scorcese and using it as a vehicle for adolescent petulance. I guess I'll wait and see but I think it's totally fair for people to look at what we know about this film and say "this looks like garbage." Anyway, as for the nazi punching thing-- I don't know, I've been punched by nazis and sort-of punched a nazi (elbowed their nose pretty hard) and I think both sort of sucked. This was at a counterprotest that got feisty and tbh I'm pretty cowardly and probably would not have gone if I'd known it would have gotten violent. I saw blood pouring out of the guy's nose and felt pretty nauseous, and soon I was sitting in a little coffee shop feeling really weird and too much adrenaline, like I was going to have a very melancholy heart-attack. I'm glad I punched and I'm even sort of glad I got punched-- I was acting on reflex and adrenaline at the time but I also think I had an ethical duty to fight back in that situation. But again, I don't know. Psychologically and emotionally I don't think it feels good to do violence. It's insane but I found myself worrying about the guy, wondering if he had to go to the hospital, if he could pay his bills, which is the most chickenshit soft-lib response to have, but that's where my head was at. A few years later-- just a little while ago actually-- I got jumped by a bunch of teens who didn't like seeing a trans-woman around and got socked pretty hard in the mouth. It was fine for a few months until I bit down on a burrito and one of my teeth just crumbled apart and the dentist confirmed, yeah, I had some bad physical trauma on some of the teeth there. I sat there looking at the bill-- thousands of dollars over months and months-- and wondered how the teens would feel if I appeared and was like, you don't remember me but I let you feel macho for a few minutes in the summer. Anyway I don't get to go on vacation this year, and I get to live on ramen and yogurt for a while, so I hope it did something good for your senses of masculinity. I don't think they'd actually feel good. Again, I think meeting fascist violence with violence is necessary and ethically fine, but I don't know, I wouldn't ever crow about it. In a weird way it sucks to now know for a fact "I can hurt another human being, I can damage their body with my body."
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Sep 27, 2019 15:01
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Rhyno posted:Ir used to be our national loving pastime. It should make a comeback, honestly. Fangz posted:I really think the most damning thing about this movie is all the dumb statements coming from the director and from the lead actor, when compared to how "deep" and "smart" it's supposed to be. Their comments have been the eye rolling kind. I think they even implied they were making "a real movie" or some poo poo like that? Karloff posted:I don't know how this film is gonna take it, but though I think that claims that it will inspire a shooting are overblown, and incendiary in their own way. I also think it's fair to criticize such a film as being vulgar or in bad taste, if it exonerates or glamourizes the character's crimes. Bad advertisement is good advertisement. If chuds don't do what other people say they should/could do, they will ride on it. I see the shooting comments to be in the same vein of "videogames cause violent shooters!!!" "D&D/ anime is a gateway to satanism", which makes me wonder why people haven't noticed is the same tactics of conservative pearl clutchers. Edit: Archyduchess posted:I don't think many people (in this thread) are literally saying "The Joker movie is bad because it will make people violently imitate the Joker." In many cases being ethically bankrupt can make a movie bad on its own. I've actually seen people who are part of woke twitter convinced it will cause real violence. Which is quite dumb. But then I dunno if they are bots or what. quote:Anyway, as for the nazi punching thing-- I don't know, I've been punched by nazis and sort-of punched a nazi (elbowed their nose pretty hard) and I think both sort of sucked. This was at a counterprotest that got feisty and tbh I'm pretty cowardly and probably would not have gone if I'd known it would have gotten violent. I saw blood pouring out of the guy's nose and felt pretty nauseous, and soon I was sitting in a little coffee shop feeling really weird and too much adrenaline, like I was going to have a very melancholy heart-attack. I'm glad I punched and I'm even sort of glad I got punched-- I was acting on reflex and adrenaline at the time but I also think I had an ethical duty to fight back in that situation. But again, I don't know. Psychologically and emotionally I don't think it feels good to do violence. That's empathy. Like, that's what separates you from the rear end in a top hat who thinks shooting people on a church is fun. Probably the only reason I would do real violence would be for self defense. I rather fight dirty than end up dead in a ditch. Desperado Bones fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 15:08
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Rhyno posted:Ir used to be our national loving pastime. It did not. We did it for 4 years but before that we wanted to be them and afterward we hired them to make us like them.
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Sep 27, 2019 15:11
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Mr Hootington posted:It did not. We did it for 4 years but before that we wanted to be them and afterward we hired them to make us like them. The greatest creative force in the history of comic books went to war just so he could kill nazis. I follow the scripture of Kirby.
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Sep 27, 2019 15:17
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Hoots isn't wrong Fun fact: Hitler credits contemporary us racial policy as inspiration in mein kampf
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Sep 27, 2019 15:33
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site posted:Hoots isn't wrong The legal historian James Q. Whitman has a pretty chilling book about this: Hitler's American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law
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Sep 27, 2019 15:38
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Plastik posted:No, but a lot of people in this thread are clearly extremely invested in white knighting chuds so they didn't notice. I don't think it's white knighting chuds to be against the censoring of a movie based on moral panic. It's pretty loving rude to assume so. I originally had a longer post in mind but I don't really want to keep defending a movie I think will be pretty bland and bad overall, but a lot of people here are using the same kind of talking points people have used in arguing against horror movies, games, etc. Its really silly honestly. Anyway, content. https://twitter.com/Variety/status/...ingawful.com%2F
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Sep 27, 2019 16:08
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https://twitter.com/Borys_Kit/status/1177600606355066880
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Sep 27, 2019 16:10
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I think the problem with the Joker movie is just timing. It's coming out at a time when mass shootings have become an almost daily event, three quarters of the American government are controlled by a political party with deep ties to the gun lobby and so refuse to do anything about it. Considering that Joker looks to be a film about the kind of people who would actually commit such an act, as well as the character's having a very strong appeal with those kinds of people. I think I can understand how people would be nervous about the whole movie.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:11
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Does that mean there's gonna be four MCU movies in 2021?
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Sep 27, 2019 16:12
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Arist posted:Does that mean there's gonna be four MCU movies in 2021?
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Sep 27, 2019 16:15
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Glad to hear the Spidey news. There was way too much money at stake for them to not make a deal.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:17
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I'm not surprised one bit about Spider-Man coming back. Just didn't think it would take this long.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:18
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They'll probably tie up Holland's Spider-man since there was so much bullshit over this.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:22
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my view since the news broke was that Sony/Disney would probably end up reaching a compromise, and that it wasn't worth losing any sleep over until/unless Sony made concrete moves toward starting production on its own (setting a release date, director, casting, etc.), which they hadn't over the past month. Hardly Nostradamus here, but glad I stuck to my guns on that and ignored the Chicken Littles.Arist posted:Does that mean there's gonna be four MCU movies in 2021? FlamingLiberal posted:Plus all of those tie-in Disney+ shows yeah, the Disney+ shows in particular mean a drastic expansion in the amount of content Marvel Studios is putting out annually, and I do worry about their creative brain trust potentially being spread too thin Arist posted:I'm not surprised one bit about Spider-Man coming back. Just didn't think it would take this long. it's only been a bit over a month
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Sep 27, 2019 16:25
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Aw, man, i wanted to see another uncle ben die
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Sep 27, 2019 16:28
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David D. Davidson posted:I think the problem with the Joker movie is just timing. It's coming out at a time when mass shootings have become an almost daily event, three quarters of the American government are controlled by a political party with deep ties to the gun lobby and so refuse to do anything about it. Considering that Joker looks to be a film about the kind of people who would actually commit such an act, as well as the character's having a very strong appeal with those kinds of people. I think I can understand how people would be nervous about the whole movie. That's the weird thing I haven't seen the film obviously but I find it highly unlikely there's any mass shooting in it. Even just regular shooting isn't usually the Joker's style, his violence is much more personal and up close. The joker wouldn't do a mass shooting. He would do a mass gas attack but this version doesn't seem to have the chemistry background either.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:28
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Rhyno posted:They'll probably tie up Holland's Spider-man since there was so much bullshit over this. It’ll be a meta story about endless ligitation and lawsuits as Peter (now revealed as Spidey) is just bombarded with law troubles. Thankfully he’s offered legal representation by Goodman, Lieber, Kurtzberg & Holliway
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Sep 27, 2019 16:30
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:It’ll be a meta story about endless ligitation and lawsuits as Peter (now revealed as Spidey) is just bombarded with law troubles. Thankfully he’s offered legal representation by Goodman, Lieber, Kurtzberg & Holliway They could tie it into Spider-verse and have Holland's "world" get torn off the MCU and land in the Venom universe.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:32
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Rhyno posted:They'll probably tie up Holland's Spider-man since there was so much bullshit over this. The agreement says it's for two films. One solo Spider-Man flick and one other MCU movie.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:32
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X-O posted:The agreement says it's for two films. One solo Spider-Man flick and one other MCU movie. I'd previously read that they wanted him in Captain Marvel 2.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:33
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If they're smart it'll be Spider-Man 3 and Fantastic Four.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:33
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X-O posted:The agreement says it's for two films. One solo Spider-Man flick and one other MCU movie. with more films apparently a possibility but I guess they're taking it two at a time instead of striking a longer-term deal also, the Feige quote strongly implies that Marvel Studios consented to allowing Holland's Spider-Man to appear in Sony's own Spider-Man spinoffs, so be prepared for that to happen
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Sep 27, 2019 16:34
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X-O posted:If they're smart it'll be Spider-Man 3 and Fantastic Four. Oh I fuckin wish.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:34
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Spider-Man and the X-Men: Arcade's Revenge
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Sep 27, 2019 16:40
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Tom Holland. Tom Hardy. Let’s loving go!!!
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Sep 27, 2019 16:45
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https://twitter.com/Zendaya/status/1177610626803195904
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Sep 27, 2019 16:48
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