|
bird cooch posted:How are you weird nerds talking about Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi bad at a time like this? No one here is talking about Hillary Clinton right now ITT. People are talking about Pelosi because she's backing an incredibly stupid strategy for impeachment, after blatantly dragging her feet with all her might for months leading up to impeachment.
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 07:31 |
|
|
negativeneil posted:Is there anything stopping the Democrats from voting on Articles of Impeachment piecemeal? It's just a majority vote, right? Like they could have hearings on Ukraine and pass Articles of Impeachment to the Senate while still continuing other inquiries and potentially other Articles down the line and rationalize it with wanting to be thorough. Sure, they'd likely get criticized by Republicans and it'd be easier to portray it as a fishing expedition, but GOP gonna GOP anyway This board seems to think that the maximum impeachment votes per term is one. After the Senate GOP plants their flag on Trump's extortion of Ukraine being a good thing, the various committees constantly hounding Trump every day on his various other crimes aren't going to go "well, guess Trump's clean, we gotta close up shop now." Everything else marches on, constantly making news, constantly making Trump twitter rage through the end of 2020.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:36
|
|
|
Angry_Ed posted:With the Democrats finally doing what so many people angrily demanded they do, the time has come to once again shift the goalposts and yell "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG" lest they ever admit the Dems are in fact, not bad. when people want you to do something they tend to not want you to do it poorly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:37
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:and the dems are gonna use the those crimes to add on to impeachment because its part of the trail. Maybe but that is not what Pelosi is saying right now.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:37
|
|
|
You have weakness, go for the throat, get Trump impeached, put GOP on their heels and beat them over their blind support for Trump or whatever, but act swiftly now while you can so people are still tuned in before things are dragged out. There’s enough dirt to take to elections even after impeachment cause there’s no guarantee the Senate will convict. Which you can still hold over them. Pence is also a weaker 2020 candidate and the GOP canceled primaries.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:37
|
|
|
Rigel posted:This board seems to think that the maximum impeachment votes per term is one. Do you really think the Democrats in the House, as a group, have the spine to try impeachment again if they don't make the most of this one?
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:37
|
|
|
Ice Phisherman posted:I don't really care if she's not doing anything illegal. What I care about is that it took someone from the CIA to pull the trigger on this rather than her doing her loving job and launching impeachment inquiries for Trump's many, MANY crimes in office and out. Majorian posted:No one here is talking about Hillary Clinton right now ITT. People are talking about Pelosi because she's backing an incredibly stupid strategy for impeachment, after blatantly dragging her feet with all her might for months leading up to impeachment.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:38
|
|
|
bird cooch posted:How are you weird nerds talking about Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi bad at a time like this? The uselessness of Nancy Pelosi, at least insofar as she is used as a shorthand for "house democrats", is a direct enabler of the awful poo poo trump does.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:38
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:She's only crooked as in typical Washington crooked. The main issue is that she's from a different political era which makes her incompetent politically and completely unsuited to the historical moment. She has no idea what she's up against and literally no strategy to win other than short term holds. This is a very typical mcmagic post where you do a lot of armchair quarterbacking about things you just seem to want to try and intuit knowledge of, and then scream about how much more you know than anyone else while not really, uh, making a substantiated argument. It's pretty grating. The very obvious strategy here is that a years-long investigation with Mueller ended up losing the attention of the American people, and was too convoluted for many people to bother understanding. Instead, they're looking to keep pressing republicans on a very easy-to-understand impeachable offense and force them to vote on it while it's still in the consciousness of voters. I am not necessarily endorsing it but your shrieking of why it's dumb without being able to make the very obvious connections of why they're doing it is so loving tired.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:38
|
|
|
bird cooch posted:trying to crash the economy and trying to start a war in Syria Iran and anywhere else to do anything These things aren't really happening and obsessing over them is just as silly as nitpicking every single move the Democrats make. None of the rhetoric looks any worse than it has at any other point in the last couple of years because Trump's people have no strategy and no understanding of anything. We could be in a ground war with Syria or Iran at any moment, but that's just the kind of government we have right now. There's no indication at all that they're doing any kind of wag the dog bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:38
|
|
|
negativeneil posted:Is there anything stopping the Democrats from voting on Articles of Impeachment piecemeal? It's just a majority vote, right? Like they could have hearings on Ukraine and pass Articles of Impeachment to the Senate while still continuing other inquiries and potentially other Articles down the line and rationalize it with wanting to be thorough. Sure, they'd likely get criticized by Republicans and it'd be easier to portray it as a fishing expedition, but GOP gonna GOP anyway This is more or less what is going to happen, several committees will independently explore their areas of responsibility for impeachable acts and report them to the judiciary committee who will assemble the final articles of impeachment. This will be the most scrutinized political process in recent memory so it's likely we'll end up knowing a lot of what happens in those committees and what they are coming up with before the final vote.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:39
|
|
|
Majorian posted:Do you really think the Democrats in the House, as a group, have the spine to try impeachment again if they don't make the most of this one? Adding additional charges of impeachment is not going to make it politically stronger. AT ALL, not even a little bit. Everything gets drowned out by Ukraine. If Ukraine is done, everything else remains politically relevant and damaging. Adding more charges doesn't turn the impeachment vote into a super-impeachment vote that drags Trump's numbers down another 2 points. They would simply be wasted in Ukraine's noise.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:39
|
|
|
I'm pissed about all the loving months pelosi sat around doing nothing at all to provide opposition to child concentration camps. Her finally being forced into doing the absolute minimum does not suddenly offset her quisling bullshit
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:39
|
|
|
twice burned ice posted:Pelosi is beyond useless, but what exactly has she done that's illegal? Any specific allegations? Also probably at least tangentially involved with the whole Leland Yee/Shrimp Boy thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:40
|
|
|
bird cooch posted:How are you weird nerds talking about Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi bad at a time like this? They're both incredibly bad people but also people don't like to admit they've internalized some misogyny and that plays a part. edit: The hillary part especially. She's completley unimportant now, but the Speaker is extremely relevant.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:40
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:I'm pissed about all the loving months pelosi sat around doing nothing at all to provide opposition to child concentration camps. Her finally being forced into doing the absolute minimum does not suddenly offset her quisling bullshit Impeachment does not magically make the camps disappear.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:40
|
|
|
sit on my Facebook posted:The uselessness of Nancy Pelosi, at least insofar as she is used as a shorthand for "house democrats", is a direct enabler of the awful poo poo trump does. He says on THE SAME PAGE as we wonder if Trump is going to start a war with Iran while under inquiry
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:40
|
|
|
negativeneil posted:Is there anything stopping the Democrats from voting on Articles of Impeachment piecemeal? It's just a majority vote, right? Like they could have hearings on Ukraine and pass Articles of Impeachment to the Senate while still continuing other inquiries and potentially other Articles down the line and rationalize it with wanting to be thorough. Sure, they'd likely get criticized by Republicans and it'd be easier to portray it as a fishing expedition, but GOP gonna GOP anyway This ends up looking like the argument that republicans have been making all along, that democrats are still just Real Mad they lost and are doing whatever they can to remove trump. It likely wouldn't go over well with voters. They could, however, send the Ukrain scandal for a vote to the senate, and once the senate fails to convict, just loving hammer every senator all through election season with all the other scandals that they ended up not voting on because the senate will just exonerate an obvious criminal anyhow, so maybe don't vote for the corruption enablers.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:40
|
|
|
Rigel posted:Adding additional charges of impeachment is not going to make it politically stronger. AT ALL, not even a little bit. Everything gets drowned out by Ukraine. The point isn't to make the charges against Trump himself stronger, it's to take more people down with him. (and to keep beating the entire GOP over the head with a hammer until election day)
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:40
|
|
|
Angry_Ed posted:With the Democrats finally doing what so many people angrily demanded they do, the time has come to once again shift the goalposts and yell "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG" lest they ever admit the Dems are in fact, not bad. They are bad though, they are just the least bad. We can always and should always ask for more. Maybe when all the dems look like the Squad we can stop criticizing them, but by the time that happens those positions will probably be not sufficiently progressive enough. This is not about us being whiney and never satisified, it is about our leaders letting us down as people and as a world since the pyramids were built.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:41
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:I'm pissed about all the loving months pelosi sat around doing nothing at all to provide opposition to child concentration camps. Her finally being forced into doing the absolute minimum does not suddenly offset her quisling bullshit Children are being raped and tortured, with some of them dying, RIGHT NOW in these camps! And it's been completely swept under the rug in large part because Obama started the camps.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:41
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:They're both incredibly bad people but also people don't like to admit they've internalized some misogyny and that plays a part. chuck schumer is a dumb worthless piece of poo poo but the senate doesn't do impeachment. we don't control that chamber either.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:41
|
|
|
Ice Phisherman posted:I don't really care if she's not doing anything illegal. What I care about is that it took someone from the CIA to pull the trigger on this rather than her doing her loving job and launching impeachment inquiries for Trump's many, MANY crimes in office and out. Yeah, I wasn't advocating for her. I was asking the person making the claim that she's doing illegal things to provide evidence thereof. Thanks for the unsolicited 'gently caress Pelosi' screed though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:41
|
|
|
haveblue posted:This is more or less what is going to happen, several committees will independently explore their areas of responsibility for impeachable acts and report them to the judiciary committee who will assemble the final articles of impeachment. This will be the most scrutinized political process in recent memory so it's likely we'll end up knowing a lot of what happens in those committees and what they are coming up with before the final vote. The other committees are tied up in court and won't have anything they can vote on until next year at the earliest, but the Dems want an impeachment vote on Ukraine before the end of the year. They have a few people to drag into the house for interviews, but after that Ukraine is done, there's no court battles to win in Ukraine. Trump and the whistleblower gave them everything, and it would be pointless to drag that one out.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:42
|
|
|
skylined! posted:I actually think his mental pathology will inhibit him from going to war. I don't think he can stand the possibility of losing a military conflict, so he'll avoid it altogether. This. Trump is a coward at heart. Also, I like to believe that he thinks that he has control over Graham
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:42
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1177622976201666560?s=20
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:42
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:Her caucus isn't even 100% lined up behind the inquiry, let alone impeachment. She needed a scandal like this to get party unity. I understand that herding politicians is like herding cats, but Pelosi made no move until she was shamed into this course of action. In other ways she helped Trump's proto-exterminationist concentration camp policies because she doesn't give a poo poo about Trump being a loving Nazi with Nazi policies. There's no fight in her, just silly hand claps and the occasional round of Nazi collaboration. She's neoliberal scum and should be fired into the sun.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:42
|
|
|
Majorian posted:The point isn't to make the charges against Trump himself stronger, it's to take more people down with him. (and to keep beating the entire GOP over the head with a hammer until election day) and how does a quick impeachment vote on Ukraine prevent or harm this in any way, shape, or form whatsoever?
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:43
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:He says on THE SAME PAGE as we wonder if Trump is going to start a war with Iran while under inquiry Spoiler: he's not
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:43
|
|
|
Is there a good post summary or link summary to all of this? I get the broad strokes of trump trying to restrict aid for Ukraine helping manufacture dirt on Biden, but this has moved so fast I don’t really follow a lot of the Rudy / state dept involvement and the “cover up” aspect of it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:43
|
|
|
Ice Phisherman posted:I understand that herding politicians is like herding cats, but Pelosi made no move until she was shamed into this course of action. quote:In other ways she helped Trump's proto-exterminationist concentration camp policies because she doesn't give a poo poo about Trump being a loving Nazi with Nazi policies. There's no fight in her, just silly hand claps and the occasional round of Nazi collaboration. She's neoliberal scum and should be fired into the sun. edit: sit on my Facebook posted:Spoiler: he's not I don't think he will, but you definitely, positively don't know that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:45
|
|
|
Rigel posted:and how does a quick impeachment vote on Ukraine prevent or harm this in any way, shape, or form whatsoever? I don't believe the House Democrats, as a group, have the collective stomach for a second round of impeachment investigations and hearings. I think Pelosi et al. will say, "welp, we tried that, we're not going to waste our time or the American People's time anymore."
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:45
|
|
|
teacup posted:Is there a good post summary or link summary to all of this? Honestly, just read the whistle-blower complaint. It's only about 8 pages and lays out all of the impropriety clearly and succinctly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:45
|
|
|
teacup posted:Is there a good post summary or link summary to all of this? The whistleblower report is only 8 pages long, and he lays it out pretty well. You only need to read maybe 4-5 pages to get the gist, better than any summary we can do.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:45
|
|
|
teacup posted:Is there a good post summary or link summary to all of this? Mid July - Trump tells his Chief of Staff to withhold $400 million in military aid for Ukraine. July 24 - Mueller's last testimony July 25 - Ukraine phonecall July 28 - Dan Coats (Director of National Intelligence) resigns because he feels his duties are at odds with Trump. July 28 - Trump announces Ratcliffe as his pick. Aug. 2 - Ratcliffe denounces his pick less than a week later amidst criticisms of partisan loyalty and resume padding. Aug. 8 - Trump picks Maguire. Aug. 8 - Dan Coats interrupts a meeting to urge his deputy, Sue Gordon to resign. She announces her resignation. Aug. 12 - Whistleblower complaint is filed. Aug. 15 - Coats and Gordon depart (both are Trump admin nominees). Aug. 26 - Intelligence IG forwards complaint to the acting DNI. Aug. 28 - First reporting that Ukraine military aid is being withheld. Sep. 2 - Deadline passes for complaint submission. Sep. 9 - Intel IG notifies House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff of an "credible, urgent concern" that DNI has overruled. Sep. 10 - Schiff demands DNI submit complaint. Sep. 9/10 - John Bolton resigns/is fired. Sep. 12 - Trump finally releases Ukraine military aid. Sep. 13 - Schiff subpoenas Maguire. Sep. 17 - Maguire refuses to testify - suspicions of WH/DOJ stonewalling. Sep. 18 - Media revelations of the "promise" made to foreign nation. Sep. 19 - Media revelations that Ukraine is involved. Sep. 19 - The Intelligence inspector general gives a classified briefing to the House Intelligence Committee. Sep. 20 - It's reported that Trump pressed Zelensky to investigate Biden's son during a call on July 25. Sep. 22 - Trump acknowledges that he discussed Joe Biden in a July call with Zelensky. Sep. 24 - Pelosi announces impeachment inquiry. Sep. 24 - The DNI sent a letter to the whistleblower's legal team noting that the executive is preventing his submission of the complaint, but reassures the whistleblower that they have followed procedure and they will be protected. Sep. 24 - Senate unanimously (100-0) passed a non-binding resolution to release the whistleblower complaint. Sep. 25 - Officials report that Maguire threatened to resign if pressured to stonewall Congress by the WH. (Maguire denies, Wapo stands by reporting) Sep. 25 - Trump implicates Pence in the Ukraine scandal. Sep. 25 - Whistleblower complaint is sent to Congress. Sep. 25 - House backs release of whistleblower complaint 421-0. Sep. 25 - Cracks in the GOP begin to show. After seeing the whistleblower complaint, two Republican Senators publicly voiced concern over the details. One Senate Republican, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to speak candidly, said the transcript’s release was a “huge mistake” that the GOP now has to confront and defend. “Republicans ought not to be rushing to circle the wagons and say there’s no ‘there’ there when there’s obviously a lot that’s very troubling there,” Sen. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.) told reporters after reviewing the whistleblower’s complaint. “It remains troubling in the extreme. It’s deeply troubling,” Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) told reporters Wednesday when asked about the transcript. Sep. 26 - Whistleblower complaint is released. Sep. 26 - New revelations from the complaint reveal a cover-up, in which the complaint was stored in a separate system used for classified information. Sep. 26 - Maguire testifies. He defends the whistleblower and credibility of the complaint. Sep. 26 - Trump likens whistleblower informant to a spy and a traitor, and remarks that spies were "dealt with differently" in the old days. Zotix fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Sep 27, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:46
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:There was no shaming. Sources have indicated she was going to impeach before the op-ed came out...Monday, I think? This is just simply untrue: https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1175465767455862786 Pelosi was stolidly against impeachment until the moment she absolutely could no longer oppose it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:47
|
|
|
Majorian posted:I don't believe the House Democrats, as a group, have the collective stomach for a second round of impeachment investigations and hearings. I think Pelosi et al. will say, "welp, we tried that, we're not going to waste our time or the American People's time anymore." I don't think further impeachment will play well without something triggering it at least this big. You need narrative momentum, stomachs have nothing to do with it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:47
|
|
|
skylined! posted:This is a very typical mcmagic post where you do a lot of armchair quarterbacking about things you just seem to want to try and intuit knowledge of, and then scream about how much more you know than anyone else while not really, uh, making a substantiated argument. It's pretty grating. Pretty rich that you follow up a personal attack with a post that is so disconnected from the reality of the situation. Your analysis on what happened with the Mueller Report is 100000000000000% wrong. That investigation was run by corrupt republicans who seeded that they couldn't charge Trump with anything no matter what they found. It was overseen by corrupt Trump hacks in the justice department who limited the scope away from Trump's kids and his financial crimes and it was rolled out by a corrupt AG in order to minimize the impact. That investigation was compromised and completely illegitimate. An investigation led by house Democrats would NOT have the same lack of impact that Mueller did. It would have much more. I don't understand not wanting to have this in the news for the next year forcing Republicans to answer for it every day rather than rushing it through in a month a year from the election which is like a decade in the trump era.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:47
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:She's only crooked as in typical Washington crooked. This sort of bullshit statement needs to die. It's a 'Common Wisdom' claim with strong roots in anti-government thinking and gets repeated far too often by people who should know better and is one of the foundations for both-sides thinking. Willo567 posted:This. Trump is a coward at heart. Trump's ideal war is like his ideal movie. Bare tits and big explosions.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 07:31 |
|
|
The Super-Id posted:They are bad though, they are just the least bad. We can always and should always ask for more. Maybe when all the dems look like the Squad we can stop criticizing them, but by the time that happens those positions will probably be not sufficiently progressive enough. This is not about us being whiney and never satisified, it is about our leaders letting us down as people and as a world since the pyramids were built. I don't recall saying "better things aren't possible," thanks for putting words in my mouth.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 18:47
|
|