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Majorian posted:I don't believe the House Democrats, as a group, have the collective stomach for a second round of impeachment investigations and hearings. I think Pelosi et al. will say, "welp, we tried that, we're not going to waste our time or the American People's time anymore." If you add Trump's financial crimes or whatever into the mix, it wont matter and no one will pay attention to them at all. If his other crimes get their own day in the news for months at a time, they would matter, people would pay attention to them, even if there's never a 2nd impeachment vote. Like, the lack of an impeachment vote doesn't make us go "oh darn those other investigations never hurt Trump at all." Yes, they do, if its bad news blaring on TV, the voters still hear it.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:47
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I think it’s also notable that with Russiagate, it was driven by Russian intelligence so Russia knew and used the language / code beforehand to make it muddled if they were exposed. With Ukraine, it’s the Trump clown show attempting to extort Ukraine and they make the amateur mistakes and go for outright stating the quid pro quo when Ukraine plays dumb.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:47
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I guess this is what they are going with?
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Sep 27, 2019 18:48
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Majorian posted:The point isn't to make the charges against Trump himself stronger, it's to take more people down with him. (and to keep beating the entire GOP over the head with a hammer until election day) loving yes.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:48
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I guess this is what they are going with? I very much wish more than one of them had one
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Sep 27, 2019 18:48
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Zotix posted:Mid July - Trump tells his Chief of Staff to withhold $400 million in military aid for Ukraine.  We should probably have a megapost/thread for this now that it's finally rolling.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:48
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Majorian posted:This is just simply untrue: Wrong-o, she told Hoyer they were doing it before the op-ed: quote:After learning, over the weekend, about Trump’s fevered communications with the Ukrainian leadership, Pelosi, who was in New York, called her deputy, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, to say that she had decided to back an impeachment inquiry. As she was flying back to Washington, she read an op-ed in the Washington Post in which seven centrist Democrats who had resisted an impeachment effort said that they had now changed their minds https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-political-scene/nancy-pelosi-an-extremely-stable-genius ^^ From the article linked as being "outrageous praise" that really, really isn't
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Sep 27, 2019 18:49
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theflyingorc posted:I don't think he will, but you definitely, positively don't know that. He would have striked Iran by now if he was serious. Plus, Tucker is begging him NOT to go to war
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Sep 27, 2019 18:49
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theflyingorc posted:I don't think further impeachment will play well without something triggering it at least this big. You need narrative momentum, stomachs have nothing to do with it. There's narrative momentum, and then there's just simply trying to get it done and over with. What we're seeing from Pelosi et al. is 100% the latter. She didn't want to take this vote, and now that she has to, she wants it behind her as soon as possible. theflyingorc posted:Wrong-o, she told Hoyer they were doing it before the op-ed: I don't see why I should believe her post-facto retelling of events, above what an aide leaked in the moment. Particularly when all of the evidence we have from her mindset over the past several months has been, "We're not going to impeach, and I'm going to come after you if you even mention it to me."
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Sep 27, 2019 18:50
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I guess this is what they are going with? very strange thing for a secretary of state to post.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:50
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Majorian posted:There's narrative momentum, and then there's just simply trying to get it done and over with. What we're seeing from Pelosi et al. is 100% the latter. She didn't want to take this vote, and now that she has to, she wants it behind her as soon as possible. This is mind reading, and you're making it up.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:51
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Groovelord Neato posted:very strange thing for a secretary of state to post. Didn't know the VP could also be the Secretary of State 
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Sep 27, 2019 18:51
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Zotix posted:July 24 - Mueller's last testimony Did he think all oversight was over once Mueller was finished? Lol
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Sep 27, 2019 18:51
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pacerhimself posted:Did he think all oversight was over once Mueller was finished? Lol yes
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Sep 27, 2019 18:51
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Majorian posted:I don't believe the House Democrats, as a group, have the collective stomach for a second round of impeachment investigations and hearings. I think Pelosi et al. will say, "welp, we tried that, we're not going to waste our time or the American People's time anymore." A second round of impeachment hearings after a first failed one will make it a lot easier for the GOP and the complicit media to downplay the seriousness of everything. Especially if it's something that's not so blatant as this. The GOP does have experience after all of consecutive witch hunts and projection is one of their main strengths.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:51
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Angry_Ed posted:Didn't know the VP could also be the Secretary of State lol oops mouse was over the name and the tiny thumbnail looked like pompeo to me. pacerhimself posted:Did he think all oversight was over once Mueller was finished? Lol it rules so much.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:51
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Taerkar posted:This sort of bullshit statement needs to die. It's a 'Common Wisdom' claim with strong roots in anti-government thinking and gets repeated far too often by people who should know better and is one of the foundations for both-sides thinking. It's not bullshit. How is she worth 16 million dollars on a congressional salary for 30 years? It might not be illegal but she's definitely corrupt. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/confronting-pelosi-on-insider-trading/
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Sep 27, 2019 18:52
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Taerkar posted:A second round of impeachment hearings after a first failed one will make it a lot easier for the GOP and the complicit media to downplay the seriousness of everything. Especially if it's something that's not so blatant as this. My point exactly. Keeping the scope this narrow means that everything else Trump could be impeached for goes out the window. theflyingorc posted:Hey It's pattern recognition.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:53
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Majorian posted:There's narrative momentum, and then there's just simply trying to get it done and over with. What we're seeing from Pelosi et al. is 100% the latter. She didn't want to take this vote, and now that she has to, she wants it behind her as soon as possible. The value of the Ukraine impeachment vote decreases if you drag it out needlessly through summer 2020. The voters will get fed up with it and have had time to rationalize away asking Ukraine to attack your enemies. ESPECIALLY if Biden is not the nominee, the voters will go well now I dont even care anymore. Vote this year, and Trump goes into 2020 being impeached for trying to ask other nations to influence the election, no matter what, and that stain hangs on him. As an added bonus, the other investigations now matter again. They DO NOT really matter now, if we had a minor development today in another Trump crime, it wont make an impact, because we want to know whats going on with Ukraine.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:53
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skylined! posted:Someone itt asked about the thread's opinion of Killer Mike and TI last week or around then. Sooooooo That was me! And what the poo poo?
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Sep 27, 2019 18:53
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Angry_Ed posted:I don't recall saying "better things aren't possible," thanks for putting words in my mouth. I like that you quoted my whole post and then accused me of putting words in your mouth with a quote that I didn't write and an idea that I was in no way trying to attribute to you. Yes, very well put.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:53
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theflyingorc posted:Her caucus isn't even 100% lined up behind the inquiry, let alone impeachment. She needed a scandal like this to get party unity. Leadership isn't about sitting around and waiting until the perfect opportunity presents itself to you. That's what has people pissed, Nancy Pelosi got lucky here. We aren't in this better situation because of anything Pelosi did, we're only in a better situation because God personally handed Nancy Pelosi the perfect opportunity to impeach Trump. It would really be so much better if you would stop acting like Nancy Pelosi's hands are tied until their caucus is in line; you've been one of the loudest voices declaring Nancy Pelosi skill as a knife-fighter slasher Ironclad control over her caucus for years. Your present arguments make it sound like you just worship authority figures no matter what they actually do. Pelosi is finally doing the right thing. As soon as Trump's gone she's next. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 18:53
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Groovelord Neato posted:lol oops mouse was over the name and the tiny thumbnail looked like pompeo to me. We are so goddamned lucky he is so dumb.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:53
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mcmagic posted:Pretty rich that you follow up a personal attack with a post that is so disconnected from the reality of the situation. Despite Mueller plainly stating that the president committed obstruction, what was the response from the American public? Do you think that there was an overwhelming response to impeach and the house just ignored it? quote:I don't understand not wanting to have this in the news for the next year forcing Republicans to answer for it every day rather than rushing it through in a month a year from the election which is like a decade in the trump era. You could just lead with admitting you don't understand and maybe try to discuss the approach on its merits instead of just whining, you know. Just a thought.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:54
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Zotix posted:July 25 - Ukraine phonecall Uhhh, is it just a coincidence or are these two things possibly related?
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Sep 27, 2019 18:54
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Majorian posted:My point exactly. Keeping the scope this narrow means that everything else Trump could be impeached for goes out the window. If this doesn't get him impeached then I'm not sure what would be, outside of the most comical of comically stupid actions, and I don't think he's clever enough to do those.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:54
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theflyingorc posted:Hey I mean you're not wrong that the op is making hella inferences based on personal perception but it is clear as day that Pelosi herself does not think impeachment is a remotely good idea. You can make the case that after nearly three years of open criminality and corruption, the Ukraine thing is what finally actually changed her mind but I think that's just as much of an unsupported inference as anything you're criticizing
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Sep 27, 2019 18:55
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mcmagic posted:It's not bullshit. How is she worth 16 million dollars on a congressional salary for 30 years? Her husband is an investment banker, one of the most lucrative careers that exists? She also has owned property in San Francisco for a long time, which is probably a large part of her net worth?
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Sep 27, 2019 18:55
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Gatts,Solaris 2.0,Dapper Swindler etc posted:OMG he wants war in Syria! AlBorlantern Corps posted:Shouldn't that be "What Obama did to Khadaffi"? No, I thought you were one of the older goons, you remember this surely. quote:The 1986 United States bombing of Libya, code-named Operation El Dorado Canyon, comprised air strikes by the United States against Libya on Tuesday 15 April 1986. The attack was carried out by the U.S. Air Force, U.S. Navy and U.S. Marine Corps via air strikes, in retaliation for the 1986 West Berlin discotheque bombing. There were 40 reported Libyan casualties, and one U.S. plane was shot down. One of the claimed Libyan deaths was of a baby girl, reported to be Muammar Gaddafi's daughter, Hana Gaddafi.[3] However, there were doubts as to whether she was really killed, or whether she really even existed.[4] Basically they're not starting a war they just want to bomb Syria's palace to try and kill Assad (and distract from the impeachment investigation but I'm sure that's totally a coincidence). Oracle fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 18:56
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Multiple people need to be posting better.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:57
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skylined! posted:Despite Mueller plainly stating that the president committed obstruction, what was the response from the American public? Do you think that there was an overwhelming response to impeach and the house just ignored it? It was NOT plainly stated and it was rolled out by a corrupt AG that muddied the waters. Everything about the Mueller Report was crafted to ensure that nothing happened.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:57
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You can tell things are going well by how this thread starts to eat itself and say that things should have been done "better".
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Sep 27, 2019 18:57
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Rigel posted:The value of the Ukraine impeachment vote decreases if you drag it out needlessly through summer 2020. The voters will get fed up with it and have had time to rationalize away asking Ukraine to attack your enemies. ESPECIALLY if Biden is not the nominee, the voters will go well now I dont even care anymore. There's already plenty on the table that the public already understands is illegal, though. Mehdi Hassan has it 100% right: quote:But are they really saying “everybody understands” Trump’s quid pro quo with the president of a foreign country, and the details of the specific case involving Hunter Biden, but not the illegal payment of hush money to a porn star? Or all of the corrupt behavior on display in front of their eyes? The brazen self-dealing? The daily violation of the emoluments clause?
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Sep 27, 2019 18:57
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theflyingorc posted:Her husband is an investment banker, one of the most lucrative careers that exists? So what you're saying is she is a corrupt out-of-touch boogie, at least that's what I am getting here. Why should someone with so little perspective on what the average American experience is be in such a leadership position? She doesn't understand anything about anything, why do we trust her with the keys?
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Sep 27, 2019 18:58
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1177604833538392065 loving lol.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:58
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Christ what a child.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:59
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Majorian posted:There's already plenty on the table that the public already understands is illegal, though. Mehdi Hassan has it 100% right: I don't buy any argument that has a base premise: "The American People are not stupid" Prester Jane posted:So what you're saying is she is a corrupt out-of-touch boogie. Why should someone with so little perspective on what the average American experience has be in such a leadership position? She doesn't understand anything about anything, why do we trust her with the keys? The goalposts have exited the building
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Sep 27, 2019 18:59
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Majorian posted:There's already plenty on the table that the public already understands is illegal, though. Mehdi Hassan has it 100% right: The voters were against impeachment on everything else. They support it for Ukraine. If you want to drag out Ukraine pointlessly through late 2020, then you had better hope Biden wins the nomination, or now the voters REALLY don't give a gently caress and impeachment becomes a net negative. Trump was not impeached for the Muslim ban, the kids in cages, or the GOP tax cuts, but the voters were still pissed about it in 2018.
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Sep 27, 2019 19:00
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ewiley posted:Uhhh, is it just a coincidence or are these two things possibly related? I absolutely believe it does. Cenk on the Young Turks(I know he's not a favorite of everyone) had a good little segment on it last night. He might not known of the classified server, or the specific details that we all know now, but I bet he knew the contents of that phone call. And he basically Noped right the gently caress out at that point. And he called up his long time assistant Sue Gordon to nope right the gently caress out as well. He likely knew that stuff wasn't going to be good if he had to answer to it, and got out while it was still smart of him to.
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Sep 27, 2019 19:00
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Xombie posted:You can tell things are going well by how this thread starts to eat itself and say that things should have been done "better". this thread, meaning like 2 people, are going to try over and over to steer the conversation into their fox news level obsession with either hillary clinton or nancy pelosi.
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Sep 27, 2019 19:01
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