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i need a clarification. the last i heard from Warren on the Cherokee thing was her releasing the DNA test to prove she was, indeed part Cherokee, right? Has she officially said "no, i'm not really a native american" at all?
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Sep 28, 2019 15:18
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HootTheOwl posted:Yeah, Trump doesn't literally bring it up each and every time he references her by constantly calling her "Pocahontas". A non issue. It's a huge issue in that Trump will turn it into a discussion about affirmative action and why white people are getting screwed once again. It doesn't matter whether Warren herself benefitted, it's just a gateway to talking about how democrats want to flood the country with hispanics that'll steal your daughters place at Penn or whatever. I know Sanders can't make the argument himself, but they really have to find a way to acknowledge how little baggage he has given decades in politics. He's squeeky clean. There is nothing to attack him on other than his policies, but Trump/Fox will say the exact same things about Biden or Warren so who cares.
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Sep 28, 2019 15:27
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GreyjoyBastard posted:- poster who constantly advocates direct action as the only valid form of political engagement and thinks a Warren nomination would be the literal end of the country / world Lol you just had to take a "both sides" take God drat you deserve the worst poo poo You libs already do violence against the left, you just use the cops/feds as a middle man
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Sep 28, 2019 15:28
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kidkissinger posted:i need a clarification. the last i heard from Warren on the Cherokee thing was her releasing the DNA test to prove she was, indeed part Cherokee, right? Has she officially said "no, i'm not really a native american" at all? The more nuanced approach would be to say that though she does have native american ancestry, her family has not been a part of that culture in so long that it would be wrong for her to claim that she herself is native american. Like how my ancestors came from Germany, Ireland, and Bohemia, but I am not any of those things and only have cultural residue of having grown up in the midwest.
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Sep 28, 2019 15:30
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kidkissinger posted:i need a clarification. the last i heard from Warren on the Cherokee thing was her releasing the DNA test to prove she was, indeed part Cherokee, right? Has she officially said "no, i'm not really a native american" at all? She kind of sort of apologized to the Cherokee after they went "uh what the gently caress DNA tests have virtually nothing to do with how we determine membership or cultural affiliation and this blood quantum poo poo is really loving offensive" but for the most part she just stopped talking about it. She did put up a website that said she definitely didn't benefit from the thirty years of slapping CHEROKEE and AMERICAN INDIAN on every document that asked about her ethnicity and according to that same website she doesn't have a racist artifact in her kitchen. Otherwise she's not talking about it and the media doesn't want to talk about it. Edit: When I was 17 and applying to college my parents asked if I wanted to put Native American on applications because they thought it might provide some benefit. I had the sense to look in the mirror and, upon seeing a pasty white boy looking back at me, decide to put white/non-hispanic on the forms and call it a day. I had more sense at 17 than this woman had at 70. Wicked Them Beats fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Sep 28, 2019 |
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Sep 28, 2019 15:32
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https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1177670778810224645?s=19 https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1177672870421504002?s=19 https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1177673905168945152?s=19 https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1177907899105984514?s=19 Yang takes a shot at the wealth tax.
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Sep 28, 2019 15:37
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Wicked Them Beats posted:She kind of sort of apologized to the Cherokee after they went "uh what the gently caress DNA tests have virtually nothing to do with how we determine membership or cultural affiliation and this blood quantum poo poo is really loving offensive" but for the most part she just stopped talking about it. She did put up a website that said she definitely didn't benefit from the thirty years of slapping CHEROKEE and AMERICAN INDIAN on every document that asked about her ethnicity and according to that same website she doesn't have a racist artifact in her kitchen. My grandma is smarter than Warren. My uncle asked her how Native American we are and her response was "not enough."
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Sep 28, 2019 15:48
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Yang via chapo believes the rich will circumvent taxes, so its better to use a VAT. No, changing the tax code and punishing the wealth isn't the solution. More taxes are. Couldn't make this poo poo up.
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Sep 28, 2019 15:50
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Nobody on earth cares about Warren's NA stuff.
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Sep 28, 2019 15:50
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temple posted:Nobody on earth cares about Warren's NA stuff. No, but it makes an easy rallying cry. "But her emails" and "lock her up" will be replaced by "Pocahontas" and wearing face paint while impersonating tribal war cries.
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Sep 28, 2019 15:54
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Yang is just one of those people who really love to gently caress around with numbers.
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Sep 28, 2019 15:55
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temple posted:Yang via chapo believes the rich will circumvent taxes, so its better to use a VAT. No, changing the tax code and punishing the wealth isn't the solution. More taxes are. Couldn't make this poo poo up. 'if something is difficult you probably just shouldn't bother' is always such an inspiring thing to hear
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Sep 28, 2019 15:55
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temple posted:Nobody on earth cares about Clinton's drat e-mails.
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Sep 28, 2019 15:59
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"Taxing the rich is hard, we really shouldn't bother. But what if we raised taxes on poor people, slashed social safety nets, and gave each person a paltry sum of cash annually that will be drained away by rent-seeking and the very tax scheme I want to use to fund it? Also I am very wealthy but let me assure you this has no bearing on my opinion here."
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Sep 28, 2019 16:00
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The two topics play completely differently in the public. One played into the idea that a politician was corrupt. Warren’s NA stuff is just her being clueless - something all politicians have done at some point. The two aren’t comparable.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:03
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Why does everything have to be all 2016, all the time? I say Warren’s native gaffes are more like the Dukakis in a Tank.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:10
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Mellow Seas posted:Why does everything have to be all 2016, all the time? I say Warren’s native gaffes are more like the Dukakis in a Tank. Except worse since Dukakis in a tank was just a silly photoshoot and not completely racist and idiotic.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:11
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temple posted:Nobody on earth cares about Warren's NA stuff. In the sense of how it was offensive to Native Americans? No one seems to care. In the sense that it takes one of her key strengths and turns it into a negative? Sure. Warren's personal story is legitimately inspiring. To go from a lower middle class Oklahoman to school teacher to the very top of her profession is truly remarkable. And every time she brings it up Trump will say that it was because of affirmative action, which also just tends to fit in with the preconceptions of most of his base. The only way you may think this won't matter is if you have never lived in one of these swing states.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:11
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joepinetree posted:In the sense of how it was offensive to Native Americans? No one seems to care. Nearly every single person I've talked to that isn't a white lib has brought up the NA poo poo. I know that's anecdotal but I personally trust my experience here more than the people who also claimed none of Clinton's baggage would matter.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:14
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Warren already has extremely little nonwhite appeal and being shown that she's willing to go Rachel Dolezal for her own gain while offering very little to actual nonwhite people is not going to help with repeating 2016. It's not about swing voters, it's about how many people say 'gently caress it' and stay home. And these things make a lot of people stay home.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:15
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Barry Foster posted:'if something is difficult you probably just shouldn't bother' is always such an inspiring thing to hear He's a neoliberal, he's just the wild new radical flavor with zany box art (only available for a limited time)* *also seems okay with nazi-sympathizers
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Sep 28, 2019 16:16
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reminds me of the facebook guy that went to singapore and renounced his citizenship because god forbid you pay a small fraction of the vast wealth you accumulated doing nothing.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:18
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It's a perfect device for depressing left turnout while stirring up the right. "Warren is a fraud" will be blasted across the country for months on end and a whole lot of people who might turn out and vote will shrug and decide not to bother because it will sound to them like yet another election where they get to choose between a fraud and a liar. Now she might still win a general if the economy isn't doing too hot, but since Warren has already signaled most of her platform is up for bid it makes me wonder why we wouldn't just avoid the whole issue by nominating that Bernie Sanders guy since he actually seems to be committed to the whole "helping poor people" thing.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:18
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kidkissinger posted:Except worse since Dukakis in a tank was just a silly photoshoot and not completely racist and idiotic. Obviously it's worse because Dukakis did nothing wrong except be short and agree to wear an overly large helmet. Has it been debunked, though, that those goofy-rear end pictures had a marked effect on the 1988 election? (I mean, it seems like the kind of thing that would be bullshit, but I've heard it enough in my life and I think polling backed it up.) What Warren did, by virtue of being actually bad, was much worse than 1) John Kerry serving honorably in a war, or 2) Obama picking the wrong church to pander to south siders by attending. Or probably fuckin' 3) Whitewater. But all three of those things became gigantic campaign issues. And if Bernie wins the nomination we will hear a lot about his Soviet vacation, or some other ticky tacky bullshit we don't even know about yet. What Bernie did wasn't wrong, but will voters see it that way? To boomers, they were taught that the USSR was the greatest evil in the world, and that Indians were fun fantasy creatures from the Tee Vee. Who knows what would resonate with them more, or what the comparative effect would be on different age demographics? In contrast, email was probably more effective on boomers because they don't understand computer poo poo well and it's easy to make anything technological sound nefarious to them. An entire six months of right wingers putting on headdresses and doing Indian chants would be loving gross and unbearable, and easily worse and more offensive than what Warren did, even if what she did was bad. But if "nobody cares" and it's "just being used as a rallying cry", then is it going to have a big effect on the polls? I mean, my gut says that it would be very bad for Warren electorally, but I'm just some guy with the standard lapsed-Catholic liberal guilty conscience. I always expect bad things to happen in politics. Where was I going with this... right. People like to say around here all the time that you shouldn't choose candidates or policy positions based on how conservatives will respond to them, because they'll always find some way to talk poo poo that the media will gladly pick up and amplify. We should be voting for the candidate who has the best policies and would actually make the best president. That's Bernie anyway. If we want to look at the Native issues as a moral issue, that's legitimate. If we talk about the effect it would have on the general election... that's the definition of an electability argument. I personally don't find it disqualifying as a moral issue, just troubling. As an electoral issue, nobody really knows what will resonate with the masses. People can disagree.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:29
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Mellow Seas posted:Obviously it's worse because Dukakis did nothing wrong except be short and agree to wear an overly large helmet. Has it been debunked, though, that those goofy-rear end pictures had a marked effect on the 1988 election? (I mean, it seems like the kind of thing that would be bullshit, but I've heard it enough in my life and I think polling backed it up.) The issue with the Dukakis tank picture is he had voted against funding the M1 tank program. It made him look like an rear end to be photoed riding around in one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRPZQ3UEN_Q
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Sep 28, 2019 16:35
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CelestialScribe posted:Warren’s NA stuff is just her being clueless - something all politicians have done at some point. The two aren’t comparable. i wouldn't call a white person claiming to be cherokee despite having zero ties to the cherokee nation clueless. i'd call it racist. the people of oklahoma have a nasty history wrt to native americans and the cherokee nation. the university of oklahoma calls its students sooners, referencing the white settlers who settled in native american territory before the US government took more of it away from native americans to give to white people. those same white people, who raped, murdered, and stole now use the ancestry of those they oppressed as something fashionable, while making literally no effort to actually help or make amends for what they did. that's just a continuation of an ugly history of racism Condiv fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Sep 28, 2019 |
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Sep 28, 2019 16:37
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CelestialScribe posted:The two topics play completely differently in the public. One played into the idea that a politician was corrupt. She's a cheat. She faked her college admissions and got her professor job at Harvard because she falsely claimed she was a racial minority. The Dems want open borders and to flood the country with people that will deny you and your children thoee positions at Harvard they otherwise would have rightfully earned. All while giving "those people" free healthcare, college, and wiping away their debts. It's a pretty easy narrative to tell. It'll never be a factor in Dem primary because everyone is afraid to acknowledge it, but will be run into the ground in general.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:38
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Willie Tomg posted:triple post but, highlight reel via WAPO: He’s so good
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Sep 28, 2019 16:38
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cargo cult posted:maybe hes making good points but hes an insufferable little worm so i cant watch Yeah holy poo poo this dude sucks. Give me a super cut of warrens bad stuff without the douche commentary
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Sep 28, 2019 16:40
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The super cut is everything but some of her banking reform
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Sep 28, 2019 16:40
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Warren's NA stuff is worse than e-mails because unlike e-mails, it's actually true.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:43
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KingNastidon posted:She's a cheat. She faked her college admissions and got her professor job at Harvard because she falsely claimed she was a racial minority. The Dems want open borders and to flood the country with people that will deny you and your children thoee positions at Harvard they otherwise would have rightfully earned. All while giving "those people" free healthcare, college, and wiping away their debts. This is right. Most voters won't care that it was racist. But a lot of them really, really hate affirmative action and the idea that their tax dollars could be used to support 'unworthy' people. Warren's history makes it easy to amplify that attack non-stop in an easily packaged form. And judging from past experience her response will be to bluster and say "well golly gee I just believed what my grandma told me". Compare that to Bernie. They can call him a socialist but he'll just turn that an attack into a reminder that yes, he does want to redistribute wealth in a way that benefits the vast majority of voters.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:47
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OctaMurk posted:Warren's NA stuff is worse than e-mails because unlike e-mails, it's actually true. Hahahahaha; not to say it's necessarily not worse, but that's... not how politics works.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:49
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Do the green new deal. Go change global economy by 2030. Tax the wealthy. Drop spending on military. Bring the IRS up to power and gore into corporate books to regulate industry. Use one of the committees to have a Dept of Transition to guide the unemployed from fossil type industries to new jobs in green fields. All unemployed are trained to clean up the earth and paid livabale wages, like plastic removal, and those that can including the younger will train to be astronauts to clean up debris in orbit and poo poo. Like...it is a massive undertaking but managing the transition can be creative. Don’t get bogged down with bullshit cries of outlandishness.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:52
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https://twitter.com/LLW902/status/1177906599412862976?s=19 I'm shocked. Truly shocked.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:54
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i'd like to point out that the town warren grew up in, norman oklahoma, was a KKK stronghold for a very long time, and was definitely a KKK stronghold when warren was growing up there. I remember one of my professors talking about how his family had to leave norman shortly after moving there because they received anonymous threats against them. one of the streets near the university of oklahoma is literally named after a member of the KKK (and one of the first four professors in OU, edwin debarr). imagine how clueless you'd have to be to think that you were native american enough to self-identify as cherokee, but somehow your family didn't get harassed out of a KKK stronghold like norman oklahoma. Condiv fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Sep 28, 2019 |
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Sep 28, 2019 16:57
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^^^^^^^ Getting ahead of your skis there, buddy. How the gently caress can you let somebody comment on a campaign without disclosing that Bernie's policies would cost her literally hundreds of millions of dollars? What the gently caress?
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Sep 28, 2019 16:57
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Mellow Seas posted:^^^^^^^ Getting ahead of your skis there, buddy. don't think so. i think that a person who well into her 70s still self-identified her and her family as cherokee, but didn't look back and see that they were able to live in a kkk stronghold for years without problem might be beyond clueless.
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Sep 28, 2019 17:08
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Mellow Seas posted:How the gently caress can you let somebody comment on a campaign without disclosing that Bernie's policies would cost her literally hundreds of millions of dollars? What the gently caress? You might want to sit down because this will shock you, but their class interests would also be threatened by a Sander's presidency, thus they've not reason to disclose such things!
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Sep 28, 2019 17:11
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It's a classic case of dunning-kruger effect. Warren is an unparalleled genius at economics, a true expert. But she mistakenly assumes she is an expert at everything else as well, including race issues
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Sep 28, 2019 17:12
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