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EthanSteele posted:Might be playing this and because I am an incorrigible shithead I am going to be a dwarf slayer. How important is charop and how do I do it? I ended up getting no bonus XP in chargen and went with big WS, T and WP cos they seem useful to be the tiny man that fights big boys. I think those stats will put you ahead of most other characters. I fell rear end backwards into a decent combat character with my charlatan. Even though his Str and WS were low, he had a high Initiative and lots of Fortune Points, so with a little luck and judicious use of FP he was able to build up momentum until he was rolling his combat checks with like a +50 and hanging in there with the combat boys. The single best, most cost effective thing you can get, imo, is a shield. I don't remember all the details, but it gives armor points to more than just your arm and it's much faster to equip than donning armor.
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Sep 27, 2019 17:16
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Pharmaskittle posted:I think those stats will put you ahead of most other characters. I fell rear end backwards into a decent combat character with my charlatan. Even though his Str and WS were low, he had a high Initiative and lots of Fortune Points, so with a little luck and judicious use of FP he was able to build up momentum until he was rolling his combat checks with like a +50 and hanging in there with the combat boys. A Slayer with a shield? By Griminir's beard !!!!!
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Sep 27, 2019 18:35
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kidkissinger posted:A Slayer with a shield? By Griminir's beard !!!!! Put some spikes on it and give it a bladed rim and it's all good.
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Sep 27, 2019 19:45
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Reskin it as a giant belt buckle
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Sep 27, 2019 20:08
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:Reskin it as a giant belt buckle KHAZUKAN KAZAKIT-HA!
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Sep 27, 2019 20:16
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If you're an offensively minded character / slayer, read up on the rule that lets you chain attacks every time you one shot a full health enemy. Like, if you want to run around with a two handed weapon, you don't want the chu-chu train to get derailed by someone who "helps" by peppering the enemies with a chip damage AOE.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:27
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:Reskin it as a giant belt buckle Reskin it as an iron-bound book of grudges and it's even more setting- appropriate
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Sep 27, 2019 21:13
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Shields still count as weapons. As long as you use Dual Wielder to kill a guy with it every now and then, Grimnir gives you a thumbs up. Hell, you even get ambidexterity later to make it better on attack and defense.
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Sep 27, 2019 22:05
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Night10194 posted:Shields still count as weapons. As long as you use Dual Wielder to kill a guy with it every now and then, Grimnir gives you a thumbs up. Hell, you even get ambidexterity later to make it better on attack and defense. Idk, I get the feeling Grimnir doesn't like people rules-lawyering his strictures. However, shields ARE really loving good and you probably want the biggest one you can carry in 4e.
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Sep 28, 2019 00:04
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kidkissinger posted:Idk, I get the feeling Grimnir doesn't like people rules-lawyering his strictures. The thing is, slayers WANT to die, so it's really not appropriate at all to use something that is purpose built to keep you from dying. Just get better at parrying, and cut up fools! No need to defend if your enemies are all dead, after all. Or, dead for real. You can never tell with some foes.
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Sep 28, 2019 11:21
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You can probably wear leather, no dwarf will count that as armour and the slayer oath doesn’t include forswearing pants.
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Sep 28, 2019 13:27
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Yeah, he's currently got the jacket and trousers because leather definitely isn't armour. If it can't stand up on its own without you in it then its not armour. That's the rule. I could see a shield being allowed because being a slayer is trying to die but in a way where you're still trying your hardest to win. If your opponent couldn't beat you with a shield then they weren't worthy enough to kill you anyway. As long as you're parrying and not hiding!
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Sep 28, 2019 13:55
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Also there's nothing wrong with playing a Slayer who's bad at being a Slayer - like, they felt culturally obligated to do it, but their heart isn't in it or something. You should expect social disapproval from other dwarves, but equally the noble PCs ought to expect social disapproval from noble NPCs unless they're treating the rest of the PCs like underlings and lackeys.
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Sep 28, 2019 18:02
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A Slayer who's bad at his oath is who accidently keeps surviving, though. One who doesn't honor their oath is an oathbreaker - which is about as terrible as a dwarf can get. There have been eccentric slayers who use ranged or untraditional weapons (ie: Long Drong, Malakai Makaisson) so a shield or buckler isn't unthinkable. Maybe tie it to his backstory, having the sins he's attoning inscribed on the inside, or an image of those he failed.
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Sep 28, 2019 19:40
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moths posted:A Slayer who's bad at his oath is who accidently keeps surviving, though. One who doesn't honor their oath is an oathbreaker - which is about as terrible as a dwarf can get. Yeah. You simply wouldn't take the oath if you weren't going to do your best at it. Nobody takes the Slayer's oath to keep on living, you could just live with whatever dishonor brought you to the point where some dwarfs take the oath, instead.
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Sep 28, 2019 19:57
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Part of whether I'd allow a slayer to carry a shield would depend on how the shield was used. A shield strapped to the arm is purely defensive and really wouldn't be slayer-ish. But a round viking shield held in the centre that's used as an edge-on offensive weapon to create the openings your sword or axe exploits I can see being a slayer weapon. Here's a video on how the style probably worked (there are no manuals before the 15th century so it's close to experimental archaeology).
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Sep 28, 2019 22:00
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Yeah, the parry/poke edge leading shield vs turtle block shield front on are very different things and a dwarf will argue for years that one is ok and the other is for cowards depending on which one he likes more.
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Sep 29, 2019 14:17
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EthanSteele posted:Might be playing this and because I am an incorrigible shithead I am going to be a dwarf slayer. How important is charop and how do I do it? I ended up getting no bonus XP in chargen and went with big WS, T and WP cos they seem useful to be the tiny man that fights big boys. They are. Beginning slayers can be really glass cannon ish so accept your fate 
Tias fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 14:13
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Warthur posted:Also there's nothing wrong with playing a Slayer who's bad at being a Slayer - like, they felt culturally obligated to do it, but their heart isn't in it or something. You should expect social disapproval from other dwarves, but equally the noble PCs ought to expect social disapproval from noble NPCs unless they're treating the rest of the PCs like underlings and lackeys. This is a good angle for RP, imo. Slayers, as a group, are extremely devout in their dedication to dying gloriously while trading deathblows with a dragon. Slayers, as individuals, are people, and for the most part people want to live. The oath is for life, but obviously suicidal ideation (the impetus for it) doesn't have to be; people survive it and heal. That kind of contradiction usually makes for interesting characters in an RPG, and it's actually all over the place in Warhammer (with the abundance of religious characters, for example). It's essential to Chaos in the setting too, imo. The best/non-fashy way to interpret the Empire is that the witch hunts, persecution of mutants, etc are just snares by which they further strengthen their enemy through atrocity and the conceit of their own righteousness. And it's pretty much the whole deal with Dark Elves, an entire society proud enough to believe that they can master dhar without being mastered by it (which has resulted in them being hopelessly infiltrated by Chaos at the highest levels of power). Use the shield and have these conversations ingame. Baku fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 19:46
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I've always thought the opposite. That yes Slayers are usually those who have committed acts which drive them to seek suicidal atonement. But there's also taboo's which you can break, some of which might seem ridiculous, but have evolved organically out of a society where the book of grudges is a thing. You can sometimes, even unknowingly ,do the equivalent of 'wearing white after labor day' and the next thing you know the mine foreman is handing you an axe, some glue and a jar of orange paint and refusing to meet your eye as he tells you 'You know what you have to do son' in the Dwarven version of being given a bottle of whiskey and a revolver.
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Sep 30, 2019 22:37
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I had a player whose character's Slayer's Oath was because he promised to help his ill wife with the laundry and then stained it with coal.
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Sep 30, 2019 22:45
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anybody got any tips for playing halflings? i've got a halfling scholar i'm playing in a game today.
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Oct 3, 2019 16:38
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try not to get into a fight, i guess
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Oct 3, 2019 16:39
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How do you handle Slayers in a party that could conceivably otherwise consist of say, a lawyer, a peasant, a drug dealer, and a boat navigator or other non-warrior people? I get that some chaos poo poo could go down or they could otherwise be trapped in a crisis alongside the Slayer and have to fight their way out together, but why would they stay together after that?
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Oct 3, 2019 16:47
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They're writing the Slayer's story and/or the Slayer got drunk and made an oath that they'd keep 'em alive. Dwarf with two conflicting oaths trying to handle them both is Dwarf working as intended.
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Oct 3, 2019 16:52
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Take Ungrim the Slayer King for example. He has the Oath of the King, which means he has to protect his person and wisely lead his people, but he also has the Slayers oath, which means he has to go out and get himself killed. Contradictory things that make him quite unhappy. In a good example of dwarf tragedy, Ungrim's Slayer Oath is inherited by Kings of his line, but his son saw a loophole in it. By taking the slayer oath himself and dying in its service, he would free his line from the slayer oath, including his father. And succeed he did, freeing Ungrim from the Slayer's Oath. However Ungrim because of the despair he felt at his son's death took the slayer oath again, thus rendering his son's sacrifice pointless.
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Oct 3, 2019 19:43
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BattleMaster posted:How do you handle Slayers in a party that could conceivably otherwise consist of say, a lawyer, a peasant, a drug dealer, and a boat navigator or other non-warrior people? I get that some chaos poo poo could go down or they could otherwise be trapped in a crisis alongside the Slayer and have to fight their way out together, but why would they stay together after that? The slayer could be any of those jobs. Slayer Lawyer that took a oath to die in battle after losing a court case humiliatingly? Done!
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Oct 4, 2019 01:43
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yea Slayers are tragic figures because they're so rigid in their oaths. If a Slayer drunkenly one day swears to some rando Lawyer who may be running afoul of some unsavory types 'I'll never let anyone hurt you' then as a Dwarf with any shred of honor he has to honor that...and his Slayer oath to die, because you don't get to decide one oath 'beats' another
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Oct 4, 2019 03:58
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It also gives you the added bonus of one PC who responds to 'oh no unholy evil' with 'loving FINALLY'. Like the awesome picture in the book where the entire party is fleeing a Great Unclean One and the Slayer is just like 'AT LAST A USE FOR MY DEGREE'
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Oct 4, 2019 04:01
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Night10194 posted:It also gives you the added bonus of one PC who responds to 'oh no unholy evil' with 'loving FINALLY'. Like the awesome picture in the book where the entire party is fleeing a Great Unclean One and the Slayer is just like 'AT LAST A USE FOR MY DEGREE' yea that too, playing a Slayer means looking at some huge demon about to blow an entire town up with a spell and doing that Gordon Ramsay 'finally some real food' meme. In a setting like Warhammer where even a veteran Knight or whatever would go 'oh poo poo oh gently caress oh no' that's a really fun dynamic to play with.
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Oct 4, 2019 04:05
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Chronische posted:The thing is, slayers WANT to die, so it's really not appropriate at all to use something that is purpose built to keep you from dying. Just get better at parrying Wouldn't this same logic apply to parrying?
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Oct 4, 2019 22:14
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Midgetskydiver posted:Wouldn't this same logic apply to parrying? parrying is more...fighty. You're in the thick of it with the other guy and poo poo, a Slayer has to die a worthy death, so the dude going at you has to earn it, but I'd say there's probably a big difference to most Slayers between 'our blades clash and I turn his blow away' and 'I'm hunkering behind a shield'.
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Oct 4, 2019 22:19
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Also while a shield is very effective, if you don't parry in this system you're just straight saying 'I would like my PC to lay down and die now' since the entire combat system centers around opposed tests. Which is also why I'd personally say a shield is fine. Hell, there's nothing in the actual Slayer text that says they can't wear armor, in any of the 3 percentile-using WHFRP editions; it's just fluff from elsewhere in the setting and really iconic to their look that they don't. It's not actually forbidden by the game text in 1e, 2e, or 4e.
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Oct 4, 2019 22:23
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yea I'd have most dwarfs give a side eye, to say the least, to some Slayer rocking full plate with a big rear end tower shield, but tbh if they could explain it as some 'any creature that is worthy to satisfy my oath would have to be powerful enough to tear through iron' I'd have it be pretty accepted if just kinda weird. There's no real 'rule' for the Slayer oath other than 'you have to fuckin die properly to fix this'
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Oct 4, 2019 22:28
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My personal favorite bit of game text accidentally producing fluff comes from basically every class being written on the assumption it's for Imperials. So every wood elf Cavalry character comes riding out of the forest with their bow and noble elven steed, then encounters guns and is like 'poo poo yes, get me a carbine'. E: Note this is saying that's great, not that there's anything wrong with it. I am 100% behind elf gunslingers. Heck, that's a lot of the fun of WHFRP: There's a lot of mould-breaking that goes on in the game and the setting. I'm actually really glad they have the little sidebar that says 'the species' allowed in each career thing is the default, if you and your group want to play a Wood Elf Engineer or something go nuts that poo poo happens'. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 22:40
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Yeah Slayer's are not banned from Armor. They just generally don't use it cause it reduces the chance they get killed. Ungrim the Slayer King as mentioned earlier wears armor, cause his conflicting oath says he has to protect himself in battle.
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Oct 4, 2019 22:52
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the biggest thing a Slayer would worry about in armor is looking like he's actually afraid of dying. Luckily that can be disproved by being the most Dwarfy Dwarf you can be and trying to fight anything that seems to be disrespecting you and yours.
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Oct 4, 2019 23:05
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Just use a shield made of leather over wood. Not even the most shameful disgraceful Dwarf would ever claim wood is usable as armor.
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Oct 4, 2019 23:12
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ChaseSP posted:Just use a shield made of leather over wood. Not even the most shameful disgraceful Dwarf would ever claim wood is usable as armor. I like this a lot actually, leather and wood armor and poo poo with the excuse 'who the hell would call this wimpy stuff 'armor'???' is some Good Dwarf poo poo
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Oct 4, 2019 23:19
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sexpig by night posted:I like this a lot actually, leather and wood armor and poo poo with the excuse 'who the hell would call this wimpy stuff 'armor'???' is some Good Dwarf poo poo This is actually in the Career Compendium in 2e: Slayers get a Leather Jack as trappings because they pass it off as a warm leather jacket for the weather. It isn't mail, so it doesn't count as armor, and really, they don't actually like freezing to death either. So there's precedent.
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Oct 4, 2019 23:21
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