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Dimitris posted:CMANO2 developers interview: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=4948 Hell yeah, this all sounds really cool. As someone who was too stupid to get to grips with the UI, and found the map frustrating, this might be the version of the game I finally click with.
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Sep 28, 2019 19:24
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https://store.steampowered.com/app/490920/Wolfpack/ Wolfpack just released an update that's supposed to add bots to all the other stations except the captain so that you can play it solo. Someone please make a trip report if this gives us the second coming of Silent Hunter 3?
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Sep 29, 2019 05:57
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Even with bots its worth holding off. I was hoping planes and more enemy vessels would have come first since it’s extremely bare bones. Had tons of fun with a friend figuring out proper targeting and underwater mapping with clocks but not worth playing more until there’s something to do.
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Sep 29, 2019 16:59
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Command: Modern Operations – User interface and experience, Part I: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=4954
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Sep 30, 2019 10:54
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Lol at this though.quote:Arguably the single biggest criticism leveled against CMANO v1.x has been that its user interface, and primarily the map engine, felt slow and clunky. In some cases this was the result of various technical circumstances, such as users not keeping their systems updated, shovelware and intrusive apps sinking their rusty hooks inside Command without any recourse (looking at you, Valve & MSI), and other factors. "Look Doom may run smooth as glass on your system, but the reason our map is so laggy is because of Steam." 
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Sep 30, 2019 18:50
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I still remember the Apolyon flame wars over having to upgrade PCs for Civilization 4
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Sep 30, 2019 19:15
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Deptfordx posted:Lol at this though. gradenko_2000 posted:I still remember the Apolyon flame wars over having to upgrade PCs for Civilization 4
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Sep 30, 2019 19:42
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Will it run on my computer?
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Sep 30, 2019 19:46
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If Doom always runs smoothly on your computer, you are a coward who is afraid to use the more extreme weapon mods.
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Sep 30, 2019 19:51
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90s Cringe Rock posted:If Doom always runs smoothly on your computer, you are a coward who is afraid to use the more extreme weapon mods. Or Boom Power (enemies exploding violently with score combos appearing onscreen). Load it up with NUTS.WAD (no, don't)
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Sep 30, 2019 19:57
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I did in fact mean the rather more graphically intense 2016 Doom.
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Sep 30, 2019 21:05
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Deptfordx posted:I did in fact mean the rather more graphically intense 2016 Doom. I use Dwarf Fortress as a metric when judging performance. Yes, I am eagerly awaiting the release of a 64-core threadripper cpu, why do you ask?
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Sep 30, 2019 21:28
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Deptfordx posted:"Look Doom may run smooth as glass on your system, but the reason our map is so laggy is because of Steam." ....and here we go again with the "Big Co/team did it, why can't you" chestnut that we're oh so familiar with. I'm sure id-software and WarfareSims are on exactly the same pecking order on Valve's tech support totem. Don't forget to troll your local 711 that they're not competitive to Walmart or Amazon. They'll certainly appreciate the insight. Dimitris fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 22:26
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CMANO's hidden secret of success revealed: https://steamcommunity.com/id/bluegoon/recommended/321410/
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Sep 30, 2019 22:29
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Dimitris posted:....and here we go again with the "Big Co/team did it, why can't you" chestnut that we're oh so familiar with. I'm sure id-software and WarfareSims are on exactly the same pecking order on Valve's tech support totem. You don't get to say this when you just tried to play the 'you filled your computer with adware, that's why we can't render a geoscape at more than half a frame a second'. id do not get 200 FPS because Valve coded Steam to give them a boost. Lets get real shall we? The reason your game runs terribly is because you don't touch my GPU for any of the lifting at all. Now I think you can probably make a very good argument for why that needed to be the case (the core of the programme was made for professionals, who don't have those in their terminals), but this forum isn't a constituency of 60+ men with poor tech awareness you can get away with bullshitting.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:04
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Dimitris posted:....and here we go again with the "Big Co/team did it, why can't you" chestnut that we're oh so familiar with. I'm sure id-software and WarfareSims are on exactly the same pecking order on Valve's tech support totem. I've never noted a performance decrease comparing a non-steam build and a steam build of a game. That, plus making it a factor of Valve helping id rather than id simply making their game very well on their proprietary engine, which they're known for, seems very off base. If the 7/11 just has a single checkout, the banks aren't conspiring to push Walmart up. Walmart just has more checkouts because they're a larger business.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:24
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shots fired!
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Sep 30, 2019 23:27
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Pull up, thread! I think it's unreasonable to expect small teams to be as good and fast at optimisation as large ones, however the CMANO team excuses sound a bit fishy to me too
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Sep 30, 2019 23:28
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I don't have a bone in this fight, but I think it's safe to say that most small teams can make a map that doesn't lag.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:42
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Dramicus posted:I don't have a bone in this fight, but I think it's safe to say that most small teams can make a map that doesn't lag. Eh to be fair google earth can be pretty laggy too, and that's with a recentish 4GHz i7. Now blaming it on Steam of all things is pretty funny though.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:32
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If the Steam interface is truly the cause of the lag, just tell people to turn it off. It wouldn't be the first game to not react well to the overlay being enabled even when it's not in use. If you mean Steam is magically putting bullshit into your game aside from the interface that is causing visual lag, and only in a grog game and none of the other games made by small dev teams, that seems... unlikely.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:34
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Dramicus posted:I use Dwarf Fortress as a metric when judging performance. Yes, I am eagerly awaiting the release of a 64-core threadripper cpu, why do you ask? Isn't Dwarf Fortress single threaded?
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Oct 1, 2019 00:49
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Foo Diddley posted:Isn't Dwarf Fortress single threaded? 
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Oct 1, 2019 02:09
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Foo Diddley posted:Isn't Dwarf Fortress single threaded? It actually uses two threads. One for the game, and one for cats.
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Oct 1, 2019 04:10
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Alchenar posted:You don't get to say this when you just tried to play the 'you filled your computer with adware, that's why we can't render a geoscape at more than half a frame a second'. Fact: By far the majority of excessive lag issues reported were resolved by disabling Steam overlays and its use of DirectWrite. Fact: MSI apps (especially Afterburner and Nahimic) have also been strong culprits, and disabling them has resolved numerous reports. Fact: Many problem reports went away once reporters updated their OS. These are not personal opinions, these are facts borne out of our experience supporting CMANO in the wild for 6 years. (And to clarify: Is CMANO's map perfectly smooth & lag-free under the best of circumstances? No, it is not. There were fundamental reasons in the rendering pipeline for this, and this was why we completely re-architected the whole thing for CMANO2. But there is a distinct difference between a "a few tenths of a second" and "up to a few seconds". The latter is abnormal, and was caused by the above and other factors outside our control) quote:id do not get 200 FPS because Valve coded Steam to give them a boost. Let's see if you will agree to this premise: When ID pings Valve about Steam screwing with their game, the latter are a bit quicker to pick up the phone than in our case. If you disagree with this (and the general point that larger companies/teams have inherent advantages that render the "they made it, why can't you" argument unfair) then we really have nothing to discuss as we have fundamentally different worldviews. quote:Now I think you can probably make a very good argument for why that needed to be the case (the core of the programme was made for professionals, who don't have those in their terminals), but this forum isn't a constituency of 60+ men with poor tech awareness you can get away with bullshitting. See above. If we believed that performance issues were solely down to external factors then we wouldn't bother with a re-write of the map engine. _We own our built-in lag_ . But we are not taking the blame for external factors making a not-great situation insufferably worse. Dimitris fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Oct 1, 2019 |
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Oct 1, 2019 05:53
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I can confirm in regards to the MSI Afterburner thing, having been personally affected. EDIT: and Nahimic too, as anyone who recently heard me talk in Discord can attest!
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Oct 1, 2019 05:55
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I've never noted a performance decrease comparing a non-steam build and a steam build of a game. Fact: In some of our performance issue reports, the reporter was able to compare the experience between the Matrix-installed copy and the Steam-installed copy. Same exact code, just delivered by a different distribution platform. In every case, the Steam copy was noticeably slower/laggier. In every case, disabling Steam overlays & DirectWrite removed the difference. This is why fan guides like this excellent one begin with "disable these" instructions at their very top. quote:That, plus making it a factor of Valve helping id rather than id simply making their game very well on their proprietary engine, which they're known for, seems very off base. Valve (and Nvidia, and AMD, and Intel etc.) have dedicated support teams taking priority care of big-game issues. A headline like "[BigGame] runs poorly on [Intel ABC / Nvidia XYZ / etc], avoid!!!!" can directly hurt their bottom line. Ask yourself why Nvidia and AMD release new GPU driver updates right after each big-game release.
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Oct 1, 2019 06:09
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Splode posted:I think it's unreasonable to expect small teams to be as good and fast at optimisation as large ones, however the CMANO team excuses sound a bit fishy to me too See above.
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Oct 1, 2019 06:17
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Zaodai posted:If the Steam interface is truly the cause of the lag, just tell people to turn it off. It wouldn't be the first game to not react well to the overlay being enabled even when it's not in use. This is exactly what we did, and it resolved the vast majority of issues. As I said, CMANO's map is somewhat laggy even in a "perfect" system. (Otherwise we wouldn't bother to re-write it). But there is a tremendous QOL / UX difference between "tenths of a second" and "a few seconds". The former is on us, and we own it. The latter is from other factors, and we've been helping customers eliminate them for 6 years now. quote:If you mean Steam is magically putting bullshit into your game aside from the interface that is causing visual lag, and only in a grog game and none of the other games made by small dev teams, that seems... unlikely. I never said only CMANO suffers from this. In fact this was part of how we discovered the cause of the problem. We looked around and found out that we were not alone in this.
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Oct 1, 2019 06:26
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All sounds reasonable too me. As a software engineer for a small engineering firm I can attest that unless you're a big name customer a lot of hardware/software manufacturers will hardly give you the time of day, you're just not worth their time unless you can unequivocally prove they're at fault (of course it has to be on their test platform).
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Oct 1, 2019 06:26
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The biggest interface issue with CMANO and why I eventually gave up on it was between lag and the lack of weapon grouping adjusting the loving WRA tables takes 3-5 seconds to perform each action if a scenario has more than like 100 different weapons. This is with a system with a ryzen 2700 and 16gb ram so not some ancient beastie. I suppose if there's a decent discount for CMANO owners I could pick up 2 and finally figure out how to plan strikes.
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Oct 1, 2019 10:38
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Grognard Games Megathread: _We own our built-in lag_
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Oct 1, 2019 10:43
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Saros posted:The biggest interface issue with CMANO and why I eventually gave up on it was between lag and the lack of weapon grouping adjusting the loving WRA tables takes 3-5 seconds to perform each action if a scenario has more than like 100 different weapons. This is with a system with a ryzen 2700 and 16gb ram so not some ancient beastie. I'm pretty sure the latter was fixed in an update a while ago.
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Oct 1, 2019 11:05
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That would be nice, can anyone recommend a tutorial or guide for the strike planning tool?
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Oct 1, 2019 11:07
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Dandywalken posted:I can confirm in regards to the MSI Afterburner thing, having been personally affected. Out of curiosity, was this just with them running in the background from the system tray, or with them loaded up where you could interact with their UIs?
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Oct 1, 2019 15:21
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I too can confirm that some of the ASUS bloatware (Sonic Suite 2, I think) from my motherboard's packaged software had some hook into some aspect of CMANO's windowing code that meant that some window components would never redraw themselves after the initial. I had this behavior even after disabling the Steam overlay and it wasn't solved until I disabled it from starting up with Windows. Edit: ^^^ It was with the process running at all. bgreman fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Oct 1, 2019 |
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Oct 1, 2019 19:47
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Saros posted:That would be nice, can anyone recommend a tutorial or guide for the strike planning tool? Under 'Scenarios', the strike tutorials are pretty good.
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Oct 1, 2019 20:14
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Will there be any improvement to ground combat? I'm not expecting awesome modelling but perhaps vehicles could be given a little initiative if they start getting pounded.
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Oct 1, 2019 21:05
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So apparently Close Combat: The Bloody First comes out October 3rd.
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Oct 2, 2019 03:15
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Top Hats Monthly posted:Will there be any improvement to ground combat? I'm not expecting awesome modelling but perhaps vehicles could be given a little initiative if they start getting pounded. See here: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4692978
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Oct 2, 2019 05:23
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