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bessantj posted:That doesn't seem too long for a crossover. What is the longest crossover from the big 2? Civil War seemed huge taking over everything for a good while. The big thing about Age of Apocalypse is that they actually renamed all the X books (Uncanny X-Men and X-Men became Astonishing X-Men and Amazing X-Men, etc;), and told stories about the characters from a different reality. Guns and pouches Cable was replaced with some young punk called X-Man. There’s a lot that could have went wrong, but it ended up being pretty drat good.
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Sep 30, 2019 09:23
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:It's gotta be Crisis on Infinite Earths, doesn't it? That was published monthly, at 12 issues; Wikipedia says it "was first serialized as a 12-issue limited series from April 1985 to March 1986." Infinite Crisis was 7 months, but if you start from Ted Kord getting shot it was closer to 15 Dark Reign spanned pretty much from the end of Secret Invasion until Siege, meaning arguably December 2008 to May 2010 and if we count the Clone Saga as a crossover, it of course lasted from the cenozoic era until 1996, or roughly 252 million years
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Sep 30, 2019 10:41
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Knightfall was April 1993 – August 1994.
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Sep 30, 2019 11:11
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Clone Saga was definitely the winner. It took 13 or so trades to fully collect that poo poo.
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Sep 30, 2019 13:40
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Clone Saga wasn't really a crossover though. It was just a Spider-Man thing. The most recent Secret Wars from Hickman was long and involved almost every book ending and starting as something else.
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Sep 30, 2019 13:45
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Secret Wars only went from May 2015 through January 2016, though the cancellation of the entire Marvel line was certainly ambitious and noteworthy.
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Sep 30, 2019 13:59
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Yeah, I'm not really sure what we're counting as crossovers/events, or how we're judging how long; is Secret Wars (which was a twelve issue mini-series with a handful of tie-in issues) 'longer' than Blackest Night (an eight issue series with 50+ tie in issues)? Does there have to be a core 'event' mini-series? Does it count if it's just multiple [Batman/Superman/Avengers/X-Men books] sharing a story? Does that story need to have a name and "Part 5 of __" in the title?
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Sep 30, 2019 14:35
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Cubone posted:depends how we count things, I guess Sure, but Dark Reign wasn't a crossover - there was no story being told there. It was a descriptor for the status quo, but there was no central narrative. And the Clone Saga... I mean, you could make the argument that it counts, but I don't feel like it does; it was a Spider-Man story that happened in The Spider-Man Book... it's just that The Spider-Man Book was four different titles on paper, even if they ended up all telling the single story. When I think of Event Crossovers In Comics, I think of stuff like Infinity War and CoIE; things that have a central narrative (usually, though not always, shown in a separate miniseries) and have a branded identity as a crossover, with their own logo and everything, involving multiple characters and properties that otherwise would not be interacting. But that's how I, personally, identify them, and other people might have different criteria.
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Sep 30, 2019 14:41
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Edge & Christian posted:Yeah, I'm not really sure what we're counting as crossovers/events, or how we're judging how long; is Secret Wars (which was a twelve issue mini-series with a handful of tie-in issues) 'longer' than Blackest Night (an eight issue series with 50+ tie in issues)? Secret Wars II was a nine-issue limited series, but it crossed over with just about every other book Marvel published non-stop. It was everywhere, and exhausting.  "Continues in this issue", my rear end. It could be a one-panel reference to something that was somehow connected to SWII. 
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Sep 30, 2019 16:14
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prefect posted:Secret Wars II was a nine-issue limited series, but it crossed over with just about every other book Marvel published non-stop. It was everywhere, and exhausting. Also Deadpool had a "tie in" issue like 10 years later so technically that would make it the longest! Not really of course but it's a funny note.
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Sep 30, 2019 16:21
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X-O posted:Also Deadpool had a "tie in" issue like 10 years later so technically that would make it the longest! Not really of course but it's a funny note. If time travel counts, the Fantastic Four went back to ancient Egypt in the '60s, and then in the '70s (dates estimated) Doctor Strange also time-traveled back then and turned out to have helped them, and then in the '80s, Hawkeye wound up also going back to ancient Egypt and turned out to have helped Doc. Also, he created Moon Knight's weapons.
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Sep 30, 2019 16:27
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There were stories in Action Comics #1000 that tied in to stories from Action Comics #1 so really if you think about it, that's the longest crossover if you want to define things creatively.
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Sep 30, 2019 16:52
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Edge & Christian posted:There were stories in Action Comics #1000 that tied in to stories from Action Comics #1 so really if you think about it, that's the longest crossover if you want to define things creatively. Oh yeah, there's also that DC One Million stuff -- that might be the biggest time difference. Although there was that time Doctor Strange went back to the Big Bang... Or Galactus -- he almost predates the Big Bang, doesn't he?
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Sep 30, 2019 16:53
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Edge & Christian posted:Yeah, I'm not really sure what we're counting as crossovers/events, or how we're judging how long; is Secret Wars (which was a twelve issue mini-series with a handful of tie-in issues) 'longer' than Blackest Night (an eight issue series with 50+ tie in issues)? Well I guess whatever you think is sensible. A little bit different. Which complete crossover (so say two or more books) has the most single issues in it? The greatest crossover is the time Rogue referenced something she'd done that wasn't even in a Marvel comic.
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Sep 30, 2019 17:00
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prefect posted:Oh yeah, there's also that DC One Million stuff -- that might be the biggest time difference. ewings ultimates has the original original very first universe (pre-multiverse/eternity) show up cosmic ghost rider goes from king thanos alternate universe to 616 ww2-present day and a brief stop in the ultimates universe site fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 17:05
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prefect posted:If time travel counts, the Fantastic Four went back to ancient Egypt in the '60s, and then in the '70s (dates estimated) Doctor Strange also time-traveled back then and turned out to have helped them, and then in the '80s, Hawkeye wound up also going back to ancient Egypt and turned out to have helped Doc. Also, he created Moon Knight's weapons. Can you talk more about this? I'd love to read some of these issues
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Sep 30, 2019 17:08
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bessantj posted:Well I guess whatever you think is sensible. A little bit different. Which complete crossover (so say two or more books) has the most single issues in it? Maximum Carnage was 14 issues long solely in ongoing series. I wouldn't be shocked if there's some 24 part thing in the 90s.
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Sep 30, 2019 17:09
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Endless Mike posted:Maximum Carnage was 14 issues long solely in ongoing series. I wouldn't be shocked if there's some 24 part thing in the 90s. https://www.amazon.com/Spider-Man-C...0ba9aee55156ca6
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Sep 30, 2019 17:14
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As noted above, that's not a crossover, as such.
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Sep 30, 2019 17:17
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I bet it is the Clone Saga that went on for a few years didn't it?
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Sep 30, 2019 17:17
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Snackmar posted:Can you talk more about this? I'd love to read some of these issues Found a decent write-up here: https://www.cbr.com/the-great-marvel-comics-time-travel-traffic-jam-of-2940-b-c/ Turns out I was wrong about Doc visiting Egypt in the '70s. I confused the Doctor-Strange-in-ancient-Egypt storyline with the one where he takes Clea to bang Benjamin Franklin for the US's bicentennial. Doc visited in '82.
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Sep 30, 2019 17:54
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If we're stretching it to something like the Clone Saga, then No Man's Land was over a hundred issues including "Road to No Man's Land", though immediately before that the Batman books were in a state of perma-crossover for Cataclysm and Aftershock, which led into Road to No Man's Land which lead into No Man's Land which stopped having them crossover, so that puts it closer to 150 issues I think. The Superman books probably take the prize for this sort of loose definition of crossovers, as they spent nearly 11 years being weekly or almost weekly with the Triangle Numbering -- so around 500 issues of Superman from 1991 to 2002 were in a state of permanent crossover between Action, Adventures of Superman, Superman, Superman Man of Steel, Superman: Man of Tomorrow, etc. Which isn't even counting non-Triangle-numbered issues that explicitly crossed over into the Superman books, ranging from big event crossovers (these books crossed over into Zero Hour, Final Night, DC One Million, Millennium Giants, Joker's Last Laugh, Our Worlds At War, a 14 part crossover with the Milestone Universe, etc.) plus things like Doomsday and Reign of the Supermen that bled over into Green Lantern, Justice League, etc. Based off of Comic Book Reading Orders, here's some rankings (based on number of issues, not chronological duration) for big crossovers: Countdown to Infinite Crisis - 250 Secret Wars (2015) - 230 Clone Saga - 164 Civil War II - 153 Secret Invasion - 126 Fear Itself - 125 Civil War - 124 Brightest Day - 122 No Man's Land - 100 Infinite Crisis - 98 Convergence - 90 New 52 - Futures End - 90 Knightfall Saga - 86 Blackest Night - 82 Superman: New Krypton - 81 Secret Empire - 77 Forever Evil - 77 Acts of Vengeance - 71 Avengers vs. X-Men - 71 Original Sin - 67 Flashpoint - 66 House of M - 64 War of the Realms - 63 Crisis on Infinite Earths - 61 Age of Apocalypse - 58 Onslaught - 58 Underworld Unleashed - 57 Avengers/X-Men: AXIS - 56 Infinity - 54 War of Kings - 54 Infinity War - 52 World War Hulk - 52 Zero Hour - 51 Infinity Gauntlet - 51 Infinity Crusade - 47 Millennium - 45 Siege - 44 Secret Wars II - 42 DC One Million - 38 Our Worlds At War - 37 Inferno - 39 Invasion! - 38 Annihilation - 33 Annihilation: Conquest - 33 Joker's Last Laugh - 32 Infinity Wars - 31 Final Crisis - 30 They also do reading orders for books with a more overall "trade dress" where it doesn't really make sense to call it a crossover, but those can get really big: The New 52 - 1943 DC Rebirth - 1791 All-New, All Different Marvel - 1426 Ultimate Marvel - 698 Dark Reign - 288 Heroic Age - 107 The Initiative - 83 Shattered Heroes - 74 I didn't dig deep into their methodology, so I'm not sure how loose they get with "prelude" or "aftermath" issues, and things like "Doomsday -- Funeral for a Friend -- Reign of The Supermen -- Return of Superman" or all of the Annihilation-spawned Cosmic Marvel stuff is split up into separate crossovers, whereas "Knightfall Saga" or "Clone Saga" are kept as one long narrative even though they could also be broken into discrete chapters/segments. They also don't even bother trying to make a reading order for Countdown to Final Crisis, which was easily 100 issues of comics but trying to merge it into a coherent timeline presumably killed at least three contributors to the site. You could also merge Countdown to Infinite Crisis + Infinite Crisis into a 300+ issue "crossover", and if you want to consider all of Hickman's Avengers/New Avengers run (and books it crossed over into) as part of the Prelude to Secret Wars then that bloats that story/crossover/event past 300 issues too. But at that point you're getting into weird territory of "all shared universe comics featuring the same characters and concepts are a crossover". Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 17:55
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Endless Mike posted:Maximum Carnage was 14 issues long solely in ongoing series. I wouldn't be shocked if there's some 24 part thing in the 90s. Operation: Galactic Storm was a 19 part story. In fact I think it happened before Maximum Carnage too. It also has an epilogue, and two "fallout from" issues, (bringing it up to 22 parts). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation:_Galactic_Storm
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Sep 30, 2019 17:58
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Edge & Christian posted:Countdown to Infinite Crisis - 250  If people wouldn't count Clone Saga then fair enough I'm not that au fait with what is and isn't officially considered a crossover so I'm willing to bow to the greater knowledge of this thread.
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Sep 30, 2019 17:59
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prefect posted:Found a decent write-up here: https://www.cbr.com/the-great-marvel-comics-time-travel-traffic-jam-of-2940-b-c/ Thanks!
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Sep 30, 2019 18:09
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prefect posted:Secret Wars II was a nine-issue limited series, but it crossed over with just about every other book Marvel published non-stop. It was everywhere, and exhausting. Even with access to all the related issues, I still couldn't properly find out what happened in New York when Beta Ray Bill had to fight Kurse, who was resurrected by the Beyonder. I was reading Thor and it was mentioned as something that happened in SW2 but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Sep 30, 2019 18:58
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I always thought of SW as heroes and villains punching each other but then I recently read the New Mutants tie-in for SW2 where Beyonder kills a bunch of the team, and even when they come back to life they're all psychologically scarred from remembering that
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Sep 30, 2019 19:02
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I recognize Apocalypse and know I've seen him in many stories, but I have no idea what his powers are or what his plan is. He's like Mr. Sinister.
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Sep 30, 2019 19:09
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Secret Wars is the comic they literally created based on focus groups of children selected by Mattel (kids loved the words "Secret" and "Wars", so make a book about it!) and was just throwing all of the heroes and villains who were getting toys onto BATTLEWORLD and having them fight so that the Beyonder will give them their hearts' desires. It told that story effectively enough. Secret Wars II was the ill-conceived sequel to bank on the success of the first one, but rather than being about Everyone Fighting it was about God/The Beyonder coming to Earth and wanting to learn what it's like to be human and grappling with the concept of death and love and fame and capitalism and how to poop and ends with him thinking it's all stupid but getting murdered by the assembled heroes as he was rebirthing himself and was just a fetus.
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Sep 30, 2019 19:11
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SonicRulez posted:I recognize Apocalypse and know I've seen him in many stories, but I have no idea what his powers are or what his plan is. That's our Apocalypse! (hand wave energy projection, mass manipulation) Seems like he wants to evolve humanity/mutants for reasons. I think it's for planetary defense, but that may just be the justification in a single story I read.
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Sep 30, 2019 19:12
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Edge & Christian posted:Secret Wars is the comic they literally created based on focus groups of children selected by Mattel (kids loved the words "Secret" and "Wars", so make a book about it!) and was just throwing all of the heroes and villains who were getting toys onto BATTLEWORLD and having them fight so that the Beyonder will give them their hearts' desires. It told that story effectively enough. The weirdest thing about SWII for me is whenever it feels like Jim Shooter thought he was writing a sharp satire. Especially early on where, like, the Beyonder becomes some mafia guy's pupil and how after mind-controlling everyone on the earth, Molecule Man snaps out of it but decides to just keep watching TV. It's a lot of weird little half-jokes and inchoate thoughts about Society Today that never coalesce into any kind of point. If its prescient of anything, its prescient of like, Marville.
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Sep 30, 2019 19:16
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SonicRulez posted:I recognize Apocalypse and know I've seen him in many stories, but I have no idea what his powers are or what his plan is. He's like Mr. Sinister.
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Sep 30, 2019 19:20
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SonicRulez posted:I recognize Apocalypse and know I've seen him in many stories, but I have no idea what his powers are or what his plan is. He's like Mr. Sinister. from what I remember of the X-Men cartoon, he can make his arms longer
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Sep 30, 2019 19:50
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I was going to bring up Apocalypse's associations with Rama-Tut, so I thought I'd refresh my memory what all happened with him, and Jesus Christ that's complicated. Serves me right for jumping into a Kang-hole. Anyway, do you think when the Fantastic Four first showed up (in modern times), Apocalypse was all like, "Oh, okay, that all makes sense now."
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Sep 30, 2019 19:51
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Apocalypse has full control over his molecules like Manhattan. Then whatever random odd powers whoever is writing him had added. As for his plans I feel like he's basically Magneto but a few centuries older so with broader designs.
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Sep 30, 2019 21:04
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Apocalypse is sort of a wide range of elements. Like for most Marvel fan he’s “One of the big X-Men foes.” If you do a breakdown of him, he’s a lot of different parts that gel together. He’s an immortal mutant so you can have him show up in any time period and it makes sense. He’s got vague enough powers (Pretty much control of his body’s molecules. So he can grow to huge size or turn his hands into pile drivers. Eye blasts too, because why not.) that he’s a threat to whole teams. He’s got an Egyptian theme and look to his stuff, which makes for cool visual flaire and design. He’s all about having Four Horsemen. So he’s got henchmen that can be used in superhero fights. Bonus points he often takes existing heroes or villains and brainwashes them and gives them power boosts to be his servants. He serves the Celestials as part of a vague “watch over the Earth and mutant kind.” destiny. For bonus points it ties into Jack Kirby esc “Chariots of the Gods” stuff. His overall plan tends to be Social Darwinisim. Through conflict he wants to make to ensure the strongest And fittest survive. He has a giant A on his belt. There’s a lot to love.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:27
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has apocalypse ever teamed up with arcade to do a themed murderworld
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Oct 1, 2019 00:29
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All the good stories have Apocalypse being kind of a transformer shapeshifter It helps the 90s animated show gave him mechano noises when he moved https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuVxCwNdWhg
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Oct 1, 2019 01:58
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As a kid, I always figured those arm wires were his weakness and wondered why nobody ever went after them. You know, Bane logic.
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Oct 1, 2019 02:14
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Sinners Sandwich posted:All the good stories have Apocalypse being kind of a transformer shapeshifter Anybody else have the early 90s Apocalypse action figure? If you rotated his arm (I think that's how you did it) his torso extended like, a quarter of an inch. I remember thinking 'This guy sucks. What a terrible power.' I eventually got to read X-Cutioner's Song and realized he was way cooler than 'gets a little taller'. Speaking of really long story lines, but not a crossover in this case, the whole Legacy Virus thing started with X-Cutioner's Song and finally resolved about nine years later, right?
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Oct 1, 2019 03:28
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