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I know a bunch of people who went to lower-than-t20 mba programs and got great, high paying jobs. The key is, as always, network and pick a program that's located in a high population / strong economy area.
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Sep 30, 2019 02:31
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the MBA is still pretty valuable for career switchers coming out of fields like Outdoor Education that want to go in to more hard business poo poo but yes all the advice about good programs and targeting and networking is important
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Sep 30, 2019 15:20
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 A single year in some of these MBA programs would cost more than I spent getting my bachelor's degree. I'm not in the financial situation to cover that tuition or go back to school full time.
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Sep 30, 2019 17:23
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MBAs are for rich/powerful people's kids or for when you're 40 and your company is willing to pay for it to elevate you to the rare senior management role that demands time in the trenches in addition to the generic business credentials.
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Sep 30, 2019 18:24
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KillHour posted:MBAs are for rich/powerful people's kids or for when you're 40 and your company is willing to pay for it to elevate you to the rare senior management role that demands time in the trenches in addition to the generic business credentials. This. Stop believing in the meritocracy and just do the best you can with your circumstances.
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Oct 1, 2019 06:35
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The MBA has nothing to do with meritocracy but it helps leverage you into a position to become one of those rich assholes. lol, just lol if you think those ivy league Mba ceos provide any value to society, or hell even their firm. It’s all a game to get the paper.
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Oct 2, 2019 01:42
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Follow up on my old post: my company is dissolving due to irreconcilable differences between the founders. I am planning to go to Asia next January or February as a TEFL teacher so this doesn't worry me as much as it normally would. I've been offered a few options: first, to go into business with one of the founders and continue the work I've already been doing, with equity and my old salary. This would be risky but would mean I could pay my bills until Christmas and potentially have more flexibility than as a regular employee. I have some doubts about the viability of the plan as it stands but I can discuss this with the founder. Second, the other founder has offered to hook me up with a job with another agency. This might hook me into an arrangement I am not a fan of and has issues with quitting early. He also knows angels etc if I wanted to go down the route of raising for my own project. Third, I have savings and could potentially survive for the next few months on those while I focus on freelance work, pitching, and getting ready / applying for TEFL work. I would like some sort of income so my burn rate on savings isn't insane but I'm concerned the other two options will eat into my ability to go travelling next year. Going wild with freelancing and pitching appeals to me but I find the risk hard to stomach. Anyone been in a similar scenario before?
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Oct 4, 2019 11:41
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Purple Prince posted:Follow up on my old post: my company is dissolving due to irreconcilable differences between the founders. I am planning to go to Asia next January or February as a TEFL teacher so this doesn't worry me as much as it normally would. How do Plans A and B fit in with going to Asia? Taking on equity if you're skipping the continent in 3 months seems strange to even be considering, so I am guessing I've missed something here. It's not like you can drop it whenever asfter you've committed like that, surely? Same with Plan B. If they're using their contacts to get you work and your plan is to swan off shortly after they've gone out of their way for you - especially if it's for an arrangement you don't like - then what's the point except to foster resentment after the fact? You can still keep the relationship going enough, even without working with/for/near/through/whatever them, that when you come back from Asia you can meet up and maybe get introductions, right? And yeah if it's just a coupla months, were I in your shoes I'd take anything and suck it up for a short while if you've got a savings cushion. And in your off hours focus on visa poo poo and finding a good job in Asia, rather than getting a job you hate just to hate it in a strange place.
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Oct 4, 2019 12:47
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Had lunch with founder and it's all good. He'll pay me until I leave and throw further freelance work my way after I move to Asia. Honestly was surprised at how well it all went.
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Oct 4, 2019 14:06
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KillHour posted:MBAs are for rich/powerful people's kids or for when you're 40 and your company is willing to pay for it to elevate you to the rare senior management role that demands time in the trenches in addition to the generic business credentials. drat it I was looking for reasons to give up. I’m pursuing an MBA while working at a CCRC as a low level manager and thinking about giving up on the degree. Been with the company three years: year one cook, year two dining room manager, year three same job at a different site. I asked my boss (and her boss they were in the same room at the time) if they thought jumping into the MBA program corporate offered to help on would be a good move. Local university, all online. She told me go for it and we could be study buddies. She’s going after her MBA too. They’re absorbing about a third of the cost. Thing is, I’m a cook food people person. I suck at math. Planning on marketing concentration since people seem to like hearing me talk. I took two classes accounting and business research and bailed on accounting for the term because I work like a 60 hour week and I’m also a full time caregiver for my disabled wife. I dropped accounting before I had to pay or provide a grade. So now my single four credit class is very challenging on top of everything. Money isn’t a problem for the moment but this could take 4+ years at the rate I’m going, if I don’t complete it AND stay employed at my site I will have to return the money and I’m terrified I’m taking time and money away from what’s important (my wife’s care and my work quality), but may not pay off. Ive been in the trenches but have no credentials. There’s some less demanding biology food safety credentials I could go after instead. Thoughts?
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Oct 17, 2019 04:52
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MBAs are all over the place so my real take is that, as with any major new commitment, what is your goal or what do you want to do with it or get from it? Then questions like Why is an MBA(as a degree) the right choice and Why is that particular school the right choice will follow
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Oct 17, 2019 08:51
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no why + local university online only is raising all kinds of red flags for me
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Oct 17, 2019 15:43
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I mean, it's not a bad thing and if your employer were footing most of the Bill I'd say do it even if it takes 4 years, but yeah. A big question should be "What will I do with this?" Honestly though, same goes with the credentials, do those open doors?
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Oct 17, 2019 16:01
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BBQ Dave posted:drat it I was looking for reasons to give up. I’m pursuing an MBA while working at a CCRC as a low level manager and thinking about giving up on the degree. I’ll be blunt. That online only local part-time MBA is and will be worthless. if you spent that time driving for Uber instead you’d come out ahead
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Oct 23, 2019 12:49
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I'd appreciate some outside perspective on my current career "fork in the road". I've been with the same company for roughly 20 years. I started designing fire protection sprinkler systems and moved over to fire alarm and special hazards. It's more or less doing the same job. I've taken on more responsibility and slightly different roles. The overall chances of upward mobility have been slightly limited. I've been told often I'm too good at design to risk being put anywhere else. (which I think is poop, but whatever, thats the past). Overall, I cannot complain, I only have an associates degree, and I make roughly ~$65k a year, not including maybe a $4k bonus and some overtime. In the past two years, things have tremendously accelerated. I've taken on high profile work with a very demanding but well paying customer. And I've done exceptionally well. My boss this thrilled with me. Our company is expanding and he has offered me a position to start up and manage a division of the company in Baltimore. (I currently live in Central NY). There is an established branch of my company there, but only doing fire sprinkler work, not any alarm or special hazards. I'd be a huge step, and my foot in the door. Long term, my boss will need help to continue to expand the division across multiple branches. If things go great, I could see 5 years down the line, basically being his second in command of our offices in the south, while he manages the offices in the north (we are mostly up and down the northern eastern seaboard). This seems great, a real path up the ladder. The catch is two fold. One, the salary, seems low. I've been offered $87.5k a year, which seems like a big jump from my current salary, but in my opinion low compared to what I should be getting paid, and taking into cost of living (which appears to be 17% to 20% different) and the housing market (which seems like it's more 35% to 40%). It does not feel like a lot. I would be getting in addition, a $550 a month vehicle allowance, a gas card, and be put into management bonus structure, worth probably $20k. Which certainly sweetens the pot, but still feels a bit off. It's a lot of risk for myself and my wife. The second catch is my wife. She's against it pretty much through and through. She works from home and makes a very good living $120k. We have no kids. But have a GREAT house which I love. She is telling me the deal is poo poo, and other opportunities will come along. I don't exactly disagree with her, but after 20 years of grinding, this is my first real chance. It's hard to pass on. I trust my boss, my wife does not. I know we have to agree on a path together. I'm more just asking, am I blind sided by my first real chance at upward mobility, that I can't see what a big mistake this is? or what a crap deal this is? I'm still waiting on a second offer after shooting down the first. But I don't expect a hell of a lot more. Thanks for your time and perspective.
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Oct 24, 2019 20:51
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Don’t trust your boss. But also - this is your chance with this company and you probably won’t get another one. You need to poo poo or get off the pot. There isn’t a choice here between taking the deal or staying in your current role. There is a choice between taking a deal (ideally better but good luck) or finding a new job with another organization. Or doing first one and then the other, which may actually be the best plan, because moving to a bigger city with a new title and responsibilities should open up better opportunities. So don’t trust your boss, and make a plan for where you’ll be a year from now that doesn’t include working for this company even if you take this job.
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Oct 24, 2019 21:13
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Tricky with the wife part, don't know what to say there. Even if the pay is comparably low, this sounds like a tremendous resume-building opportunity. First, though: Do you want to do this type of management work? It's pretty different from being an individual contributor, and a lot of people fall on that transition. Similarly, are you prepared to do it? Classes, books mentors all the stuff that can help bridge the experience gap. Hours might be long and irregular as well, which might create pain at home. Often, people get these opportunities and then parlay the new level of experience into a similar job at another company for considerably more money than they received getting the promotion. So, even if something goes south with the boss, you could come out ahead. Idk if any of us can tell you what to do, I would wager most ppl that read this forum are very career first and would jump on this, but it's your priorities that matter.
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Oct 24, 2019 21:22
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That is good advice. I think you may have more room to negotiate here as well, especially if you are willing to take on more duties officially. You may get shutdown but I don't think it'll hurt you for having the conversation. What is the salary/duties/title that would make this move work for you AND your wife. Figure that out first, then talk. Don't do this if your wife is against it. She may work from home but that doesn't mean she is automatically the one who had to live with changes. I know your aren't intending that to be how it is, but it gets real easy to say "you work from home so it doesn't matter".
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Oct 24, 2019 21:25
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all good points so far. out of curiosity, fire sprinker man, what other opportunities have come along? your wife seems confident that they will, but based on my read of your post, this is your first real break. i'm a little suspicious that your wife wants to shoot it down so hard. now, more might come along but they ain't gonna come at this company. if you reject this offer you are going to do your current role at this company until you quit, retire, or die. you can negotiate with your boss, but keep in mind you have a weak BATNA so it's mostly gonna be begging rather than negotiating. but the cost of housing is a compelling argument. i never knew the Charm City was so expensive but I guess coming from CNY everything's expensive. you are also going to have to find out "what you should be getting paid" - a roughly 30% increase for management, plus company vehicle benefits and fuel benefits, plus a more substantial bonus, doesn't sound totally out of line to me - but i, much like you, have no actual knowledge.
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Oct 24, 2019 21:49
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The BATNA is it's really expensive for them to bootstrap a new office without a trusted resource like this, and is asking a lot for someone to uproot their life. The company might not care, but like you said it's a compelling argument and I wouldn't automatically take their first offer.
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Oct 24, 2019 21:55
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the "asking a lot to uproot your life" isn't really relevant to his BATNA, but I agree the first point gives some strength.
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Oct 24, 2019 21:57
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Altamir posted:I'd appreciate some outside perspective on my current career "fork in the road". Have you thought about starting your own business? Your family has a stable income above median and you have no kids. You have a rare and valuable technical skill, a proven track record, and you routinely interact with top-level clients. Heck, put the business in your wife's name so you get preferred status on federal contracts.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:23
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Thank you all for the great replies. Jordan7hm posted:Don’t trust your boss. An excellent point. I trust my boss in the sense that he has always stood up for me, defended me, dug into his own personal pocket to reward me. He has taken a lot of his own personal time to try and develop and mentor my sales and management skills. It is in his own professional interest for me to succeed. Due to our success, he got promoted. It is now his job to develop our division across all branches. My promotion would be the first major step. I do not trust him, in the sense that he is and will look out for his own interest, cover his own butt. He's not going to jump on any grenades for me. And he is obviously going to try and get me to do the most work I can, for the least amount of money. As far as finding another company. It's difficult. The biggest thing holding me back is we have a very lucrative employee owned profit sharing plan, which has constantly and consistently out preformed my 401k. I am not counting on it to have a successful and comfortable retirement, but it could be potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars lost if I don't hang with this company until I retire. Xguard86 posted:Tricky with the wife part, don't know what to say there. Great question. I definitely want to do this. I think I am geared for it and those around me on a corporate level have told me they see it as well. My company offers a large and extensive amount of training, classes, and books on this. As well, we have someone who's sole job is to develop management and leadership skills in people. I would obviously be working very closely with him. My wife also has a lot of management experience, and in my personal opinion a very keen mind for this type of stuff. She would be a great resource. My hours are already messed up. I'm traveling A LOT. Currently because I'm the "guy with all the right skills", I'm traveling to everywhere from Boston to Baltimore (and in-between) to help support our other offices in there efforts to expand the division. I'd say I'm on the road every 2 or 3 out of 5 work days. That's sometimes being home all week, and then gone all the next week. Or sometimes just leaving a night, driving 5 hours, sleeping in a hotel room, hitting a few early meetings/job sites, and then home by dinner the next day. Lockback posted:That is good advice. I think you may have more room to negotiate here as well, especially if you are willing to take on more duties officially. You may get shutdown but I don't think it'll hurt you for having the conversation. What is the salary/duties/title that would make this move work for you AND your wife. Figure that out first, then talk. My wife and I have discussed already what would make this work. The salary, plus the bonus and the benefits puts it close, but not quite there. My point is "it's close and a good opportunity, lets do it". Her point is "salary is all that counts, bonus and benefits aren't as valuable and not always something to be relied on". I don't exactly disagree, but back to my original question in the first post, I can't tell if I'm putting blinders on because I want this so badly. I mentioned my wife worked at home merely to help define the situation. Mostly that she would not have to look for work and that would make the relocation easier. Also that she would not be able to get a pay raise for moving into a more expensive living area. So in a way she would be taking a pay cut. This job is NOT worth risking my marriage over. My wife and I are extremely close, and this is the first major thing we have ever been on opposite sides of. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:all good points so far. out of curiosity, fire sprinker man, what other opportunities have come along? your wife seems confident that they will, but based on my read of your post, this is your first real break. i'm a little suspicious that your wife wants to shoot it down so hard. now, more might come along but they ain't gonna come at this company. if you reject this offer you are going to do your current role at this company until you quit, retire, or die. Zero other opportunities. If I pass on this, my future opportunities are somewhat limited. The most likely path would be eventually into something not management, but of higher status, like say sales. My next shot would be to try and position myself as next in line behind my boss. Currently I am the only one doing a lot of travel to the other branches to help support my boss in his efforts to expand our division. I would push to take on more responsibility in this role, as I think I'm the only one who really shares his vision. The plus side of this would be no moving, the downside would be probably more travel, which already at times has me questioning my sanity (I put 1,000 miles on my car this week alone). After that, it would be attempting to make my way somewhere into the corporate level. That feels like quite a bit of a long shot. I know I have caught the eye of some of the big wigs on the corporate level, but what exactly I would be doing is not quite clear to me yet. My only REAL leverage in negotiation is that I am the ONLY one who can do this. I'm the only one with the skills and the ability to transfer. It's my boss's job to try and expand the division and if I do not take this role, basically it sits vacant for now. Until either they find someone from the outside to try and do it (which they have tried before, twice, and it's failed both times with bad results) or wait until someone else comes along. I'd like to think that if I reject it, but try and keep the door open a bit and continue to hone my skills here. Build my management and leadership skills, prove myself with more responsibility, that maybe I can come back with more leverage and get better pay. That, however, feels like the biggest long shot of all, and very likely a nice little lie I'm telling myself to keep my hopes up. Thank you all for your input and advice and taking the time to respond.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:23
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Altamir posted:As far as finding another company. It's difficult. The biggest thing holding me back is we have a very lucrative employee owned profit sharing plan, which has constantly and consistently out preformed my 401k. I am not counting on it to have a successful and comfortable retirement, but it could be potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars lost if I don't hang with this company until I retire.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:28
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And being paid a lower salary is worth hundreds of thousands by the time you retire also.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:55
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Altamir posted:
"Close" means "Falls short of". Your wife is right, salary is your main course, the other stuff can change a lot faster than your salary. I think you're getting a short-stick here and I don't think this is all that fair of an offer given what they're alternative is (Having to significantly increase their price point to find someone) and what your alternative is (not having to uproot your life). I mean, I won't convince you leave vs stay as other people are trying to do, that's a calculation you can only make yourself. But I think your basically asking your family to move for a pay raise that will 100% be consumed by your new location, so I agree with your wife the offer isn't very compelling. Personally I think you have some negotiation room here (and it sounds like you've so far only considered their offer and not countered, which I believe is a mistake).
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Oct 25, 2019 14:48
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Dik Hz posted:If it's vested, it's already yours. If it's not vested by now, it's essentially worthless. Also, past returns don't guarantee future performance. It's high risk to have your retirement savings invested 100% with your current company. Jordan7hm posted:And being paid a lower salary is worth hundreds of thousands by the time you retire also. All valid points, and has made me realize I am probably far too loyal to my current employer, so I certainly have to give this a lot of thought. Secondary note, my retirement savings are split. My 401k and the profit sharing plan are completely separate and always will be. Lockback posted:"Close" means "Falls short of". Your wife is right, salary is your main course, the other stuff can change a lot faster than your salary. I think you're getting a short-stick here and I don't think this is all that fair of an offer given what they're alternative is (Having to significantly increase their price point to find someone) and what your alternative is (not having to uproot your life). Thank you for this perspective. Again, my real worry is that I too caught up in the promotion and the idea of it. Which is causing me to skew my thoughts/perspective on this. I am certainly more of a risk taker, my wife is not so much. I have made a counter offer. Out lining a lot of things we have talked about here. Benefits and bonus aren't the same as base pay, raise will basically be consumed by living costs, my current pay is not any reflection on my new position or new location. I have not thrown out the "Well who else are you going to find to do this?" My boss told me he would go "back to the books, and see". I'm waiting on them to come back to me with what there next offer will be. Thank you all again for your input. A lot to think about and I'll share where this thing goes.
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Oct 25, 2019 18:16
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cool, man. sounds like you are going about it the right way and carefully considering the angles. keep us posted!
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Oct 25, 2019 22:56
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Hello thread! I am trying very hard to move out of retail and into office work. The true end goal is to work in motion graphics, but I also need to not starve while I work on my demo reel, so yeah. I have skills in: prepress, print production, minor graphic design (layouts/logos), and general customer service (which I'd like to think I am actually good at). Things I could learn that wouldn't be too far out of the way to the end goal: actual graphic design, Java (scripting language base for After Effects/other animation programs). Are either of these worth spending time on so I can make an actual living wage?
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Nov 2, 2019 01:38
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:cool, man. sounds like you are going about it the right way and carefully considering the angles. keep us posted! Update: Boss came back with an offer of 92K and a 4K up front "signing bonus" to help offset the cost of the housing market. He also told me this was the final offer. I thought while not amazing, this was pretty good. The increase, plus bonuses and perks put things right where my wife and I had drawn our line. And while the 4k up front bonus isn't really going to help much with the house, to me at least, it felt like he was at least listening to me and trying to address my concerns. My wife shot this down pretty much as soon as it was out of my mouth. In further talks with her, she more or less told me she was only interested in moving if the offer was "amazing". And stood her ground on "bonuses and perks do not equal a salary". So that's pretty much that, done and dead. I'm disappointed to say the least, frustrated with my wife, but there is a certain sense of relief of this begin done and I don't have to go through the horrid ordeal of selling and moving away from friends and familiar and starting all over again. I talked to my boss about the choice to pass on the offer, and my future prospects. And overall his response was very positive. He admitted that while he wants me to go, he also wants me to stay. That the offer still stood if things changed in the future. He also freely admitted he was unsure what the landscape of our division would look like without me, and that he did not trust anyone else to be handling our top clients but me. He was for me taking on a role beside him and helping other branches develop their divisions. Over the past 6 months specifically he has been throwing new and different responsibilities at me, and letting go of direct oversight of things I am more familiar with. He had told me that this would continue. So no real exact structure on my future, but it feels like a step forward. Just a baby one instead of a big one. And at least for a 10 year plan, I am the only one even attempting to line myself up behind my boss in the succession plan. Everyone else is focused on their own issues/problems. I have also began to branch out a little bit in looking at other job opportunities. One of our top clients has a fire protection division, and while they do not do design. They do plan and budget construction, approve plans and specifications, project manage work, etc. This is something I have more knowledge and skill in than most of the people currently in these positions. I also know all the players, from top level corporate to finance, to the boots on the ground. They also pay a hell of a lot better. Wanted to thank everyone who gave their opinion and helped bring this into perspective for me. It's been a great help.
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Nov 2, 2019 10:26
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shrimpwhiskers posted:Hello thread! I am trying very hard to move out of retail and into office work. The true end goal is to work in motion graphics, but I also need to not starve while I work on my demo reel, so yeah. I have skills in: prepress, print production, minor graphic design (layouts/logos), and general customer service (which I'd like to think I am actually good at). It’s extremely competitive now a days with the rise of youtube and you tubers for video editing unfortunately. Even more so graphic design where it’s really a position of having to know someone to get in and even then my graphic design knowledge is like a small subset of everything else I do. It’s hard.
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Nov 2, 2019 16:09
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Can anyone point me in the direction of some non-administrative assistant jobs for a BA in English? I've pretty much exhausted my searches for those jobs in Ottawa, and proofreading positions are nonexistent. I just want a job where I can go through someone else's drafts and pick out formatting and grammar errors so that they look nice before they go to print, but I can't find any of those jobs which makes me wonder if they even exist. It feels more like companies just decided to say "if you have a degree in anything you're already qualified to do your own grammar checking, sorry English Majors but your field has been cut in half by cross-trained degrees."
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Nov 7, 2019 19:50
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They exist, but they're pretty much all copywriters or technical writers.
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Nov 7, 2019 19:58
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I've tried searching those too, very little of them around my area and those that are want to hire for senior positions that I'm not qualified to take.
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Nov 7, 2019 20:05
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Arcsquad12 posted:Can anyone point me in the direction of some non-administrative assistant jobs for a BA in English? I've pretty much exhausted my searches for those jobs in Ottawa, and proofreading positions are nonexistent. I just want a job where I can go through someone else's drafts and pick out formatting and grammar errors so that they look nice before they go to print, but I can't find any of those jobs which makes me wonder if they even exist. It feels more like companies just decided to say "if you have a degree in anything you're already qualified to do your own grammar checking, sorry English Majors but your field has been cut in half by cross-trained degrees." Technical writing / comms? And I dunno if you mean admin assistant in the sense of an AS government position, but the AS category means basically anything, so don’t stress too much on the categorization. There’s a CRA job fair next Friday if you’re interested. https://careers-carrieres.cra-arc.gc.ca/gol-ged/wcis/pub/rtrvjbpst.action?pi=3863BB41B6A41ED9AFA740C2BB41EBD2
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Nov 7, 2019 20:11
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That job fair could be promising. I'll check it out, thanks!
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Nov 7, 2019 20:17
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Empress Brosephine posted:It’s extremely competitive now a days with the rise of youtube and you tubers for video editing unfortunately. Even more so graphic design where it’s really a position of having to know someone to get in and even then my graphic design knowledge is like a small subset of everything else I do. It’s hard. What is your job if you don't mind me asking? I'm definitely not much of an editor, more of a graphics creator. At least I found out a cousin does this line of work, so hopefully he could help me out at some point since he's having a successful career so far.
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Nov 10, 2019 17:15
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I was in marketing but got laid off last week :v
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Nov 10, 2019 17:19
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Empress Brosephine posted:I was in marketing but got laid off last week :v Ah poo poo, that sucks. Good luck with the job hunt!
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Nov 11, 2019 03:55
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No problem wish I could be more help. I’d say make use of your friend as that’s the way in the door is knowing people.
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Nov 11, 2019 04:24
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