(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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get that OUT of my face posted:maybe if this were D&D you'd have a point about everyone being libs d&d is full of liberal warren supporters and c-spam is full of liberal sanders supporters. what's not to get
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Oct 2, 2019 14:58
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Frijolero posted:Love 2 repackage my Liberal jingoism as socialist woke scolding. Very neat and fun to read trick you and Ben Shapiro, fighting the good fight against wokescolds
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Oct 2, 2019 15:00
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R. Guyovich posted:d&d is full of liberal warren supporters and c-spam is full of liberal sanders supporters. what's not to get reported for flaming MODS
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Oct 2, 2019 15:01
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R. Guyovich posted:d&d is full of liberal warren supporters and c-spam is full of liberal sanders supporters. what's not to get
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Oct 2, 2019 15:02
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Frijolero posted:Love 2 repackage my Liberal jingoism as socialist woke scolding. Very neat and fun to read trick Its just libs concern trolling about china
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Oct 2, 2019 15:16
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Maybe both China and the US are two superpowers that absolutely don't give a poo poo about the welfare of their respective populations and the foreign policy of both states are about advancing their strategic and economic interests? The only thing that separates them though is the US, due to the US dollar and post-Bretton Woods institutions (IMF/WTO/WB), is still more hegemonic. It is also why it is a circular conversation because everyone knows China has billionaires, and also that US cops would mow down protesters coming at them in an instant. The only answer is when it comes to power, be cynically about everything. As for the Hong Kong protests, it doesn't really seem a side to support in all honesty. It more or less had come down to a geopolitical grudge match. Typo posted:Its just libs concern trolling about china Typo don't you ever worry you may eventually just become your gimmick, because it seems like your posting is starting to fade into the CSPAM background. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 15:21 on Oct 2, 2019 |
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Oct 2, 2019 15:17
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Bloodnose posted:Now I realize you only pop in here every couple of weeks to post a one liner or emptyquote an old non sequitur, so let me catch you up: the tankies in here think billionaires who wear red are very very good, actually. as far as i can tell guyovich is the only tankie in this thread mainly because you call him one every other post every time hes around but never bother with anyone else
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Oct 2, 2019 15:21
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equivocating the foreign policy exploits of modern China with the USA is rather absurd op
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Oct 2, 2019 15:23
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Ardennes posted:Maybe both China and the US are two superpowers that absolutely don't give a poo poo about the welfare of their respective populations and the foreign policy of both states are about advancing their strategic and economic interests? The only thing that separates them though is the US, due to the US dollar and post-Bretton Woods institutions (IMF/WTO/WB), is still more hegemonic. I seem to remember something about the internet and freedom of speech in general too...
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Oct 2, 2019 15:25
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Do you, darkest auer??
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Oct 2, 2019 15:31
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China isn't even a superpower. Part of the reason the US is getting so pissy about Belt-and-Road is that China gets to enjoy its own resource-extracting superhighway under the very blanket of the very freedom that the I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it!
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Oct 2, 2019 15:33
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ACAB
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Oct 2, 2019 15:39
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Darkest Auer posted:I seem to remember something about the internet and freedom of speech in general too... Freedom of speech is liberalism. No good socialist would ever want to criticize the Chinese government.
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Oct 2, 2019 15:39
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gradenko_2000 posted:China isn't even a superpower. Part of the reason the US is getting so pissy about Belt-and-Road is that China gets to enjoy its own resource-extracting superhighway under the very blanket of the very freedom that the I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! china can project nukes globally and has a massive economic engine, what is your definition of a super power?
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Oct 2, 2019 15:40
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TheBuilder posted:china can project nukes globally and has a massive economic engine, what is your definition of a super power? the ability to get stuck in military quagmires half a globe away obviously
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Oct 2, 2019 15:41
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TheBuilder posted:china can project nukes globally and has a massive economic engine, what is your definition of a super power? It doesn't lead an alliance of states which are aligned with and junior to it. Trump is so impressed by Xi that he's trying to make the same thing true about the US!
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Oct 2, 2019 15:43
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Optimus Subprime posted:equivocating the foreign policy exploits of modern China with the USA is rather absurd op The US is certainly more powerful, but that will probably change, it a sense it has to. Darkest Auer posted:I seem to remember something about the internet and freedom of speech in general too... To be honest, I think both China and the US are showing signs of convergence if anything. Let's be honest, either system is designed to really have the public have a meaningful influence over the political process and if it did...it would be fixed. Looking at the US political system or how the US handles protests, privacy, or surveillance, meh. That said, you can access more websites in the US, for now. gradenko_2000 posted:China isn't even a superpower. Part of the reason the US is getting so pissy about Belt-and-Road is that China gets to enjoy its own resource-extracting superhighway under the very blanket of the very freedom that the I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! If the USSR from 1945 to 1991 was considered a superpower, the PRC absolutely should count as one. As for the US, I agree. (Btw China does have significant political influence globally, it just isn't in a formal alliance like the Warsaw Pact). Ardennes has issued a correction as of 15:47 on Oct 2, 2019 |
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Oct 2, 2019 15:44
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TheBuilder posted:china can project nukes globally and has a massive economic engine, what is your definition of a super power? China's military is LORGE, but their military expenditures are piss poor compared to the US now and the former USSR (and it's debatable whether the USSR ever matched the US as a superpower) China's economy is big, but their GDP is still way smaller than the US. They also don't have the global economic trading power that the US has. Not to mention, they still play by Western rules (World Bank/WTO) Ardennes posted:If the USSR from 1945 to 1991 was considered a superpower, the PRC absolutely should count as one. As for the US, I agree. USSR may not have been a superpower, just like China may not be. China is nowhere near the level of cultural and military power that the USSR had. Their only ride-or-die ally being North Korea is also a sign that their diplomatic power is weak sauce.
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Oct 2, 2019 15:52
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you sure about that becase it seems like every time i turn in to the official english language chinese propaganda channel theyve got a bazillion government people from greece to kenya to new zealand talking up how great belt and road is
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Oct 2, 2019 15:54
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Ardennes posted:If the USSR from 1945 to 1991 was considered a superpower, the PRC absolutely should count as one. As for the US, I agree. The USSR was considered a superpower because, coming after an age of great powers, all of a sudden there were only two states in the world that really mattered. If anything, rather than considering China as a superpower, it's the US becoming merely one great power among others.
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Oct 2, 2019 15:54
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Some Guy TT posted:you sure about that becase it seems like every time i turn in to the official english language chinese propaganda channel theyve got a bazillion government people from greece to kenya to new zealand talking up how great belt and road is None of those states are aligned to China in the same way as NATO states are subordinate to the US Lmao at the implication new zealand is under the thrall of china.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:04
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gradenko_2000 posted:China isn't even a superpower. Part of the reason the US is getting so pissy about Belt-and-Road is that China gets to enjoy its own resource-extracting superhighway under the very blanket of the very freedom that the I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! At least half of the 1B1R projects are about building alternative super highways that go around the US carrier groups.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:07
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New Zealand literally has a giant cartoon magnifying glass pointing at China because daddy US wants to look at their cyber
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Oct 2, 2019 16:08
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TheBuilder posted:china can project nukes globally and has a massive economic engine, what is your definition of a super power? Getting to the final round in the world cup.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:08
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Ardennes posted:If the USSR from 1945 to 1991 was considered a superpower, the PRC absolutely should count as one. I'm not really one to buy into the idea that the USSR was a superpower either - it's a lot like talking about "the two Germanys" without really taking account the very real and very significant disparities between the two and in fact making them (in this case the US and the USSR) seem like equally matched adversaries.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:09
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Frijolero posted:They also don't have the global economic trading power that the US has. By what metric? China has traded more goods in $trillions than the us has for years
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Oct 2, 2019 16:12
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Bedshaped posted:By what metric? China has traded more goods in $trillions than the us has for years they don't control the WTO, WB, and IMF, for starters
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Oct 2, 2019 16:13
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I getcha, that would seem important
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Oct 2, 2019 16:15
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Why do superpowers have to be evenly matched rather than capable of at least challenging one another? The USSR was never as strong as the US (about 40% of its GDP at most) but nevertheless did significantly challenge the US for global supremacy into the late 1980s. Likewise, China doesn't have the financial influence of the US but is still now actively challenging it geopolitically. Either way the US can't act unchallenged at this juncture and that is the entire reason there is a Second Cold War. If the US was ever an unchallenged "hyperpower" that era is over. Otherwise, it is about semantics. Also, yeah Chinese total trade is larger than the US and China has a much larger GDP in PPP terms and is closing in on the US in nominal terms. The US is obviously still more powerful because of its alliances and like I said the USD and post-Bretton Woods institutions, but they have also been developing a parallel system along the BRI. The big issue is going to the Yuan. It is also why I think the US overplayed its hand in Hong Kong, the US has an advantage but its status as hegemon is weakening.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:18
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 quote:For the United States and its allies to stage a recovery, it is necessary to reframe our understanding of the Chinese campaign in the South China Sea and reorient U.S. strategy to defeat it. what if Vietnamization and the Iraq occupation, but with boats!!!
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Oct 2, 2019 16:20
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Dreddout posted:None of those states are aligned to China in the same way as NATO states are subordinate to the US oh you mean diplomacy in that we say jump and they say how high not in reference to our actual negotiating abilities
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Oct 2, 2019 16:27
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Ardennes posted:It is also why I think the US overplayed its hand in Hong Kong, the US has an advantage but its status as hegemon is weakening. What did the US do other than sending some diplomatic attache to meet with protesters?
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Oct 2, 2019 16:28
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were using the word diplomacy to refer to spy work formal negotiations and military alliances simultaneously and its getting a little confusing
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Oct 2, 2019 16:31
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Bedshaped posted:By what metric? China has traded more goods in $trillions than the us has for years China may trade a lot, but China still plays by US/Western rules (WTO). They also trade in USD, always reacting to the US economy. It may not seem like it, but they have been submissive in Trump's trade war, already conceding tariffs to food and medicine and promising to buy more US goods.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:32
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gradenko_2000 posted:
Jesus Christ lol what the hell China doesn’t even have a real navy how are they gonna even do this ahhhhhHHHHH
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Oct 2, 2019 16:33
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China has nowhere near the status of superpower... The EU has more of everything that China would need to be called a super power, yet it's not called one either China is the US's biggest rival, and entirely by choice on behalf of both parties. This superficially mirrors the USSR which leads people to want to call China a super power. There are not many issues that the US and China even cross paths on, China just sees itself as imminently important and the US is afraid of losing influence in Asia. Their economies are inexorably intertwined (Unless Trump exorcises them) so they are not even at cold war level, just political rivals. The USSR was ideologically incompatible with the US and the US's interests. It controlled half of Europe. It put nuclear weapons in cuba. Half the world was outside the US's sphere and more was slipping away, and the only strategy the US found to tide that was establishing and supporting brutal dictators who were naturally aligned in their anti communism. The US did not start any US style governments. The USSR was a natural ally in a post colonial world, and actively created more socialist states. China is not a natural ally to anyone. etc etc etc Modest Mao has issued a correction as of 16:37 on Oct 2, 2019 |
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Oct 2, 2019 16:35
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Lightning Knight posted:Jesus Christ lol what the hell I poo poo you not the current Sinophobic talking point in my neck of the woods is that Chinese fishing vessels are actually operated by PLAN sailors
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Oct 2, 2019 16:35
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TheBuilder posted:What did the US do other than sending some diplomatic attache to meet with protesters? A resolution on "monitoring" Hong Kong has been advancing through the US congress. More than the bill itself, it is a message to the PRC that the US is at least thinking about trying to openly intervene in Chinese domestic affairs. Likewise, US diplomatic staff openly meeting with protestors is sending a message. Btw, it looks like US-Chinese trade talks are on the ropes again. ------------------ Also, the Chinese have a real navy nowadays and has begun trading without the USD (the Soviet Union also traded in USD btw).
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Oct 2, 2019 16:40
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In the series Years and Years, President Trump nukes a Chinese man-made island in 2024 and China doesn't do anything about it lol Seems like an accurate representation of the power imbalance to me.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:41
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| # ? May 24, 2024 13:14 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:I poo poo you not the current Sinophobic talking point in my neck of the woods is that Chinese fishing vessels are actually operated by PLAN sailors the perfidious fishmonger
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Oct 2, 2019 16:41
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