(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
|
If and when China becomes a superpower officially IMO there should be a different standard to judge its power other than the old cold war measurement. The eastern bloc was competing with the west on mainly military and mind share. Its ecosystem was completely closed off and its style of the economy was very inefficient. China OTOH was competing with USA within the game rule US created post ww2 while slowly discredit the US rules one by one. In a way, Obama's complaint that China was taking free ride off the US policed globalization trade world has some basis. But it's not like US would sell a carrier and some F35 to China so China can do some policing themselves. All US wants from China is China pay up more protection fee while the US does the policing. So the way China compete with the US is totally different from the Soviet. China influences third party countries by having bigger trade volume and bigger investment with said country than the US. Philippine is a good example of how China turn its tie with the US. Of course, you still need hard military power to backup your soft power so China is doing that too. And because China rely so much on trade volume to exert its power I don't see China ever giving up on the manufacturing industries. US gave up a lot of it's manufacturing industries in pursue of higher profit finance industries since Reagen, China sees that as a mistake and I think the CCP will do a lot of things to keep the key manufacturing industries inside China.
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 02:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 07:17 |
|
|
tino posted:The eastern bloc was competing with the west on mainly military and mind share. Its ecosystem was completely closed off and its style of the economy was very inefficient. quote:Around the time of the Soviet collapse, the economist Peter Murrell published an article in the Journal of Economic Perspectives reviewing empirical studies of efficiency in the socialist planned economies. These studies consistently failed to support the neoclassical analysis: virtually all of them found that by standard neoclassical measures of efficiency, the planned economies performed as well or better than market economies.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 02:05
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:First he reviewed eighteen studies of technical efficiency: the degree to which a firm produces at its own maximum technological level. Matching studies of centrally planned firms with studies that examined capitalist firms using the same methodologies, he compared the results. One paper, for example, found a 90% level of technical efficiency in capitalist firms; another using the same method found a 93% level in Soviet firms. The results continued in the same way: 84% versus 86%, 87% versus 95%, and so on. ooh, that's super interesting
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 02:12
|
|
|
Typo posted:I think the real question you should ask is if China' internal problems are worse or Americas "Worse" is sort of a bad way to put it. They're qualitatively different issues. America's domestic problems haven't slowed its empire building, if anything internal crisis just makes America more aggressive. Which is what you'd expect to see from a nation in the late stages of capitalist development. China is still a developing nation, and it's currently having to deal with some of the side effects of such rapid development. This is just not the sort of nation that typically finds itself in the position of world leader. It would be like if America surpassed the British empire as the world's dominant power in the 19th century. And also Russia is very clearly trying to build itself up to superpower status as well. That will inevitably lead them into conflict with China, it doesn't take some geostrategic chess master to see that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 02:16
|
|
|
Typo posted:I think the real question you should ask is if China' internal problems are worse or Americas The Russians harbor a lot of resentment against the Americans who suckered them into taking the shock therapy and lied to them about not expanding NATO (Bush Sr) and had did an about face right afterward. The US didn't even give the democratic Russia the most favored nation trade status they gave to communist China. The Chinese OTOH, has read the three kingdoms backward and forward many times and are very familiar with the three-power dynamic, they gave a lot of land to Russia to settle the land dispute and make peace with Russia.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 02:35
|
|
|
TrilliontonNixon posted:
They are trying, but the inevitable absolute demographic and relative economic decline of Russia relative to China, Europe and the USA means they are unlikely to succeed. At the same time, the US, EU and Russia have quite skillfully maneuvered Russia into a situation where they are dependent on China in the foreseeable future.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 02:54
|
|
|
tino posted:The Russians harbor a lot of resentment against the Americans who suckered them into taking the shock therapy and lied to them about not expanding NATO (Bush Sr) and had did an about face right afterward. The US didn't even give the democratic Russia the most favored nation trade status they gave to communist China. the 1990s actually didn't matter so much as 2008-2014
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 02:54
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/ChinaDaily/status/1179584353824690176?s=20
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 03:31
|
|
|
the line just added another dash
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 03:42
|
|
|
Has motherland/祖国 always been used a lot? I feel like I've seen it a lot more recently but idk
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 03:42
|
|
|
Tom Smykowski posted:Has motherland/祖国 always been used a lot? I feel like I've seen it a lot more recently but idk yes
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 03:58
|
|
|
Taiwan: Why do I hear boss music?
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 04:11
|
|
|
TrilliontonNixon posted:Taiwan: Why do I hear boss music? Taiwan Number #1!
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 04:16
|
|
|
.
sincx has issued a correction as of 05:29 on Mar 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 04:18
|
|
|
.
sincx has issued a correction as of 05:29 on Mar 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 04:38
|
|
|
Some Guy TT posted:as far as i can tell guyovich is the only tankie in this thread mainly because you call him one every other post every time hes around but never bother with anyone else
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 05:04
|
|
|
sincx posted:https://www.scmp.com/business/article/3031318/hong-kongs-desperate-homeowners-slash-prices-20-cent-after-unprecedented why are people against protests exactly
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 05:18
|
|
|
gently caress landlords lol
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 05:18
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:post proof of this or get probated. i'm sick of your poo poo sounds like I struck a nerve but here you go: The Chinese government is lousy with fantastically rich people. If you want to argue that the National People's Congress and the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference have no actual influence on state policy (a statement I'd agree with), then I have to move my goalposts a bit and say I can't find anything to prove on this internet forum that members of the Standing Committee or State Council control assets over a billion US dollars. But six Standing Committee members controlling assets in the billions of HK dollars in Hong Kong alone last year at least suggests there could be enough elsewhere to push me over that arbitrary number. And even if not, these are still absurdly wealthy people for lifelong civil servants whose official salaries have never popped up over US $20,000 a year. The point here being that the Chinese government is one by, of, and for the extremely wealthy. And of course what I'm getting at with the "wearing red" business is that there is a certain faction of Internet leftists that will stand up for these extremely wealthy and extremely powerful people because they use Marxist-Leninist symbolism while wielding the organs of state power to enrich themselves. I grant that sometimes the motivation for that support is less a fetishization of tanks and hammers and sickles and more a contrarian "anyone who opposes America is good". But at the end of the day they're still standing up for a bunch of rich assholes who use the cops to beat down the poor and marginalized, just like all the rich assholes in all the capitalist countries.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 05:51
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/PDChina/status/1179501308233109504?s=20
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:01
|
|
|
Taiwan is getting cornered and honestly should just declare independence rather than become a complete pariah. With Trump in office my guess is they can survive without an invasion and then take a decade or so to renormalize relations. Then again China might Cuba them and they get double pariah'd speaking of which I think only three countries are not a part of the IMF and World Bank... Cuba, North Korea and Taiwan lol
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:07
|
|
|
Modest Mao posted:Taiwan is getting cornered and honestly should just declare independence rather than become a complete pariah. With Trump in office my guess is they can survive without an invasion and then take a decade or so to renormalize relations. China will literally never normalize relationships with a secessionist province
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:09
|
|
|
Typo posted:China will literally never normalize relationships with a secessionist province What about Mongolia
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:10
|
|
|
Modest Mao posted:What about Mongolia outside of 1949 borders
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:10
|
|
|
Okay, so you just mean current political climate in China will not normalize relations with an independent Taiwan in the foreseeable future then, instead of the much broader thing you said but didn't actually mean
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:13
|
|
|
Typo posted:outside of 1949 borders china will never normalize relations with india until they return arunachal pradesh
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:14
|
|
|
was going to point that out too! They're just bloodthirsty for the island that was part of china for 3 years out of the last 130 or so and is still under the control of the chinese state that had it in those 3 years lmao
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:15
|
|
|
Bro Dad posted:china will never normalize relations with india until they return arunachal pradesh last I checked, arunachal pradesh isn't pretending to be its own country
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:16
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1179625714208821248?s=20
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:17
|
|
|
Typo posted:last I checked, arunachal pradesh isn't pretending to be its own country its a state of india, just like taiwan is part of the republic of china
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:18
|
|
|
.
sincx has issued a correction as of 05:29 on Mar 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:19
|
|
|
What's cool to me is that the border between China and Nepal is set up to run right through the summit of Mount Everest. It's like the Four Corners except you're dying of oxygen deprivation.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:20
|
|
|
Bro Dad posted:its a state of india, just like taiwan is part of the republic of china right, so it's not a secessionist province but rather occupied territory tbh few in China gives a poo poo about a few miles of mountain illegally occupied by India, most don't even know about it. Taiwan on the other hand is close and dear to the hearts of the chinese proletariat
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:24
|
|
|
So kinmen, mazu and penghu are OK because they're occupied territory of Fujian and not a full fledged province, they get a pass cmon man you said something dumb and now the goalposts move
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:29
|
|
|
sincx posted:Ignore the gimmick. A China that somehow falls under the domination of a nationalist government or a bourgoise-parliamentary system would not tolerate Taiwanese government anymore so than Xi. That Taiwan belongs to China has almost universal political consensus within both the party and the masses
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:30
|
|
|
I do think China has no idea how to court Taiwanese and basically constantly fucks up They pulled out of 金馬 which was probably some of the best cross straight good will building propaganda they could have and now the world is sorta absent a significant Chinese film award since no one gives a poo poo about golden roosters. Such a loving shame China clearly plans to invade by force anyway why not get it over with, the situation will only be less and less advantageous
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:31
|
|
|
Typo posted:A China that somehow falls under the domination of a nationalist government or a bourgoise-parliamentary system would not tolerate Taiwanese government anymore so than Xi. That Taiwan belongs to China has almost universal political consensus within both the party and the masses They’ve made it the consensus because the powers that be have decided it should be so and brainwash the gently caress out of kids to feel so. They stop doing that and all the sudden people will give far fewer fucks.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:34
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2viGTcVn6C0
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:34
|
|
|
Modest Mao posted:So kinmen, mazu and penghu are OK because they're occupied territory of Fujian and not a full fledged province, they get a pass once Taiwan is returned so will those islands obvsly
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 07:17 |
|
|
Modest Mao posted:China clearly plans to invade by force anyway why not get it over with, the situation will only be less and less advantageous Is that really the case? In pure military size and technology the gap between Taiwan and China is getting wider. Moreover Xi took total power fairly recently and if an invasion were to go bad (and it very likely would; even if Taiwan can’t hold out forever on its own causing sufficient casualties could be politically catastrophic for the CCP). Seems like waiting while the mainland military gets stronger and there’s enough time that Xi could disassociate himself with a potential military disaster is a better move.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2019 06:38
|
|