USPOL Fall: Biden the hand that feeds you

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Meaty Ore: Dec 17, 2011; My God, it's full of cat pictures!

syntaxrigger posted:

Heh another one if these

https://twitter.com/JimSwiftDC/status/1180093803287470082?s=09

Adipose Wrecks

e: Death tax

Meaty Ore fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Oct 5, 2019

# ? Oct 5, 2019 02:50

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 6, 2024 06:33

Queering Wheel: Jun 18, 2011; [url=https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3876906]

syntaxrigger posted:

Heh another one if these

https://twitter.com/JimSwiftDC/status/1180093803287470082?s=09

Poets of the Wall

# ? Oct 5, 2019 02:57

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

Why doesn't Trump simply end legal immigration? He would basically knock it all off.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:00

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Nonsense posted:

Why doesn't Trump simply end legal immigration? He would basically knock it all off.

he probably wants too and may very well try at somepoint.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:01

Otteration: Jan 4, 2014; I CAN'T SAY PRESIDENT DONALD JOHN TRUMP'S NAME BECAUSE HE'S LIKE THAT GUY FROM HARRY POTTER AND I'M AFRAID I'LL SUMMON HIM. DONALD JOHN TRUMP. YOUR FAVORITE PRESIDENT.
OUR 47TH PRESIDENT AFTER THE ONE WHO SHOWERS WITH HIS DAUGHTER DIES; Grimey Drawer

Beaten before to death by taxes, but still needs an ear scritch:

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:01

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Otteration posted:

Beaten before to death by taxes, but still needs an ear scritch:

aww, love ardwolves.

https://twitter.com/DanEggenWPost/status/1180299940481949696

Skex posted:

Blah blah blah

I find it interesting that you argue just like a conservative. Never actually argue against your opponents points but just throw out personal attacks and snark.

Must be a truly miserable existence living without any hope.

ehh. that wasn't that bad of post.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1180261971687546881

this however, is arguing like a conservative. like i can rationalize not agreeing/trusting the russia/mueller stuff. but jesus.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:04

EwokEntourage: Jun 10, 2008; BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

aww, love ardwolves.

https://twitter.com/DanEggenWPost/status/1180299940481949696

ehh. that wasn't that bad of post.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1180261971687546881

this however, is arguing like a conservative. like i can rationalize not agreeing/trusting the russia/mueller stuff. but jesus.

Lol https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1180263463354060813?s=20

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:06

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

EwokEntourage posted:

Lol https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1180263463354060813?s=20

jesus, he really is just a NIMBY when it comes to facists i guess. thats really depressing honestly. guys gonna go full larouche at somepoint.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:07

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

syntaxrigger posted:

Heh another one if these

https://twitter.com/JimSwiftDC/status/1180093803287470082?s=09

Below Average White Band

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:10

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

syntaxrigger posted:

Heh another one if these

https://twitter.com/JimSwiftDC/status/1180093803287470082?s=09

the Beatables.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:10

Helith: Nov 5, 2009; Basket of Adorables

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

gently caress off

https://mobile.twitter.com/MHackman/status/1180252816222371841

I have a bad feeling he got this idea from the Australian immigration model, as health insurance is a requirement for a lot of visas here, though only for the first year (at least that's how it worked when I first immigrated 7 years ago). Also Australian insurance isn't as insanely priced as American insurance is and you become eligible to enroll for Medicare once you apply for permanent residency.

Ague Proof posted:

https://twitter.com/travis_view/status/1180242190741598208

Your crazy is leaking. Please stop.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:14

tek79: Jun 16, 2008

syntaxrigger posted:

Heh another one if these

https://twitter.com/JimSwiftDC/status/1180093803287470082?s=09

Orange Man Band

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:14

Republicans: Oct 14, 2003; - More money for us

- Fuck you

Dapper_Swindler posted:

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1180261971687546881

Pushing back on Russiagate hysterics is fine but unironically citing Glenn Kessler as an arbiter of truth is going too far.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:15

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

https://twitter.com/gregpmiller/status/1180303515530534914

holy gently caress. all these guys are weird fucks.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:17

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

Dapper_Swindler posted:

https://twitter.com/gregpmiller/status/1180303515530534914

holy gently caress. all these guys are weird fucks.

All of those richass weirdos are a great argument for wealth taxes and punitive inheritance taxes

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:19

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

As one of the resident 'ugh leftists are loving annoying 90% of the time' people, wealth tax the ultra rich until they aren't ultra rich jfc what a shitter

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:20

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

I know there is a lot of hate for the times, but this one is worth a read.

In the Land of Self-Defeat https://nyti.ms/2IpVNmd

quote:

CLINTON, Ark. � Inside Washington, there�s a sense that this scandal really is different. Even the White House�s memorandum of the phone conversation President Trump had with the Ukrainian president in July makes it clear that Mr. Trump asked a foreign country to help him undermine a political rival. But while national polls show support for impeaching him is growing, it�s still divided sharply along partisan lines. Democrats strongly favor it, while Republicans tend to oppose it.

I�ve been following this story from my little corner of the world in rural Van Buren County, Ark. Tim Widener, 50, who lives outside my hometown, Clinton, summed up the town�s attitude well: �It�s really a sad waste of taxpayers� money,� he told me.

Mr. Widener could have been talking about anything. His comment reflected a worldview that is becoming ever more deeply ingrained in the white people who remain in rural America � Washington politicians are spending money that they shouldn�t be. In 2016, shortly after Mr. Trump�s victory, Katherine J. Cramer, a political scientist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, summed up the attitudes she observed after years of studying rural Americans: �The way these folks described the world to me, their basic concern was that people like them, in places like theirs, were overlooked and disrespected,� she wrote in Vox, explaining that her subjects considered �racial minorities on welfare� as well as �lazy urban professionals� working desk jobs to be undeserving of state and federal dollars. People like my neighbors hate that the government is spending money on those who don�t look like them and don�t live like them � but what I�ve learned since I came home is that they remain opposed even when they themselves stand to benefit.

I returned to Van Buren County at the end of 2017 after 20 years living on the East Coast, most recently in the Washington area, because I�m writing a book about Clinton, Van Buren�s county seat. My partner and I knew it would be a challenge: The county is very remote, very religious and full of Trump voters, and we suspected we�d stand out because of our political beliefs.

Since coming back, I�ve realized that it is true that people here think life here has taken a turn for the worse. What�s also true, though, is that many here seem determined to get rid of the last institutions trying to help them, to keep people with educations out, and to retreat from community life and concentrate on taking care of themselves and their own families. It�s an attitude that is against taxes, immigrants and government, but also against helping your neighbor.

Most Americans live in cities, but our political system gives rural areas like Van Buren outsize voting power. My time here makes me believe the impeachment scandal will not hurt Mr. Trump � and that Democrats who promise to make the lives of people like my neighbors better might actually help him.

I realized this after a fight over, of all things, our local library.

In April, a local man who operates the Facebook group, �Van Buren County Today Unfiltered,� posted the agenda for a coming meeting of the Quorum Court, the county�s governing body. The library board wanted to increase the pay it could offer a new head librarian, who would be combining her new job with an older one, to $25 an hour.

Only about 2,500 people live in my hometown. The library serves the entire county, which has an estimated 16,600 people, a marked decline from the population at the last census in 2010. The library has historically provided a variety of services for this community. It has offered summer reading camps for children and services like high-speed internet, sewing classes and academic help. I grew up going to the library and visited it often when I returned. It was always busy. I thought people would be supportive.

Instead, they started a fight. The battle began on the Facebook post, which had 240 comments by the end. The first comment came from Amie Hamilton, who reiterated her point when I interviewed her several months later. �If you want to make $25 an hour, please go to a city that can afford it,� she wrote. �We the people are not here to pay your excessive salaries through taxation or in any other way.�

There was general agreement among the Facebook commenters that no one in the area was paid that much, � the librarian�s wages would have worked out to be about $42,200 a year � and the people who do actually earn incomes that are similar � teachers and many county officials � largely remained quiet. (Clinton has a median income of $34,764 and a poverty rate of 22.6 percent.) When a few of us, including me, pointed out that the candidate for the library job had a master�s degree, more people commented on the uselessness of education. �Call me narrow-minded but I�ve never understood why a librarian needs a four-year degree,� someone wrote. �We were taught Dewey decimal system in grade school. Never sounded like anything too tough.�

I watched the fight unfold with a sense of sadness, anger and frustration. I started arguing. It didn�t work. The pay request was pulled from the Quorum Court�s agenda.

I didn�t realize it at first, but the fight over the library was rolled up into a bigger one about the library building, and an even bigger fight than that, about the county government, what it should pay for, and how and whether people should be taxed at all. The library fight was, itself, a fight over the future of rural America, what it meant to choose to live in a county like mine, what my neighbors were willing to do for each other, what they were willing to sacrifice to foster a sense of community here.

The answer was, for the most part, not very much.

A 2016 analysis by National Public Radio found that as counties become more rural, they tend to become more Republican. Completely rural counties went for Mr. Trump by 70.6 percent overall, which makes my county politically average � Van Buren gave Mr. Trump 73 percent of its vote. Rural America is not a monolith, but a majority of rural counties fit perfectly into Mr. Trump�s preferred demographics: they are largely white (96.2 percent in Van Buren), and rates of educational attainment are low.

People are leaving rural areas for cities because that�s where the jobs are. According to one analysis, between 2008, during the Great Recession, and 2017, the latest year for which data is available, 99 percent of the job and population growth occurred in counties with at least one city of 50,000 people or more or in counties directly adjacent to such cities. It�s hard to generalize what�s happening to rural counties, but many are faced with a shrinking property tax base and a drop in economic activity, which also decreases sales tax revenues.

Many rural counties are also experiencing declines in whatever industries were once the major employers. In Appalachia, this is coal; in much of the Midwest, it is heavy manufacturing; and in my county, and many other counties, it�s natural gas and other extractive industries.

This part of Arkansas sits on the Fayetteville Shale, which brought in natural gas exploration in the early 2000s. For about a decade, the gas companies paid local taxes on their property, equipment and the money they made from extracting natural gas, and landowners paid property taxes on the royalties they earned. It was a boom. Many people at the time, here and elsewhere, expected that the money would last longer than it did.

Instead, the price of natural gas plummeted in 2009 and profits declined. Production slowed. One of the biggest natural gas companies in the area, Houston-based Southwestern Energy, stopped paying taxes to the counties here, arguing that the rates were unfair. The company and five Arkansas counties, including mine, are still locked in litigation over some of the money it owes (it recently paid a portion of it).

Van Buren�s County�s chief executive, Dale James, told me that county revenues had declined by at least 20 percent from when gas production was at its height in 2008. The county budget is now just over $11 million, including revenue from local taxes and state and federal grants.

When local economies are flagging, state governments don�t step in to help as much as they once did. The Pew Charitable Trust found that state aid to local governments fell by 5.3 percent during the recession�s lowest point, in fiscal year 2013, and it still is below what it was before the recession. On top of that, 45 states restrict the way local governments can collect property taxes on their citizens in some way: In Arkansas, property and sales tax increases, the main source of revenue for many local governments, have to be approved by voters.

It means many county governments are getting less money on several fronts. A report from the National Association of Counties from 2016 was titled, �Doing More With Less.� It�s the new normal.

Local budgets pay for the infrastructure and institutions people deal with every day � schools, roads, water, trash collection, libraries and animal shelters. Cuts to those services are felt in a visceral way.

The fight over the pay for the new head librarian had a larger context: The library moved into a new building, with new services, in 2016. Construction began during the natural gas boom years, and ended after the bust, just as the county budget was being squeezed and services were being cut.

During the boom, the new building had seemed necessary, but with the revenue decreases, the county knew it was going to have a hard time paying the $2.1 million still owed on it. (Disclosure: My mother was on the library board when some of the decisions about the new building were made.)

The library made its own budget cuts, but the savings weren�t enough to cover the shortfall in paying for the building, and there was a real danger of the library closing, leaving its new, hulking brick building empty. The people who didn�t frequent the library argued that the community didn�t really need it anymore, anyway. After all, if you have internet, you can get whatever you want in a day.

Such was the situation when the pay raise showed up on the Quorum Court agenda. Why give one person a raise when the county was slashing its budget, when we were going without so much else? The head librarian candidate, Andrea Singleton, eventually took the job at the old salary, just over $19 an hour, although at first the fight made her upset enough to consider leaving.

�It was enough to make me want to run away,� said Ms. Singleton, who had been on the library�s staff for four years when she was offered the promotion, told me. �But I got over it.�

When I spoke to other county residents, many thought all of the budget cuts were a sad but necessary correction to the county�s previously profligate ways.

Ms. Hamilton, the Facebook commenter, told me that the voters fixed the county�s problems by electing Republicans to countywide offices in 2018, including Mr. James, who replaced a Democrat who�d held the office for four terms. �Some people are more fiscally responsible than others,� she said.

Ms. Hamilton, who is 52, had moved to the county during the natural gas boom, in 2008, and continued working with that industry even after it left. She commutes each week to work in the Midland-Odessa area of Texas. She noted that Clinton is a small town and simply couldn�t afford the luxury of government services. �If you�re looking for a handout, this is not the place; we can�t support that,� Ms. Hamilton said.

Mr. Widener, 50, has lived in the county on and off for 18 years, and was born in the nearby town of Conway, home to the University of Central Arkansas. He commutes there for work in the university�s information technology department. He told me the idea of paying the librarian $25 an hour was �typical government waste.� He added, �It�s the same thing in Washington.�

The typical private-sector wage in Van Buren, $10 to $13 an hour, was right for the county, many people said. Anything more than that was wasteful, or evidence of government corruption.

Tim Widener argued that a wage of $25 an hour for a librarian was �typical government waste.�CreditAudra Melton for The New York Times
Almost everyone I spoke with feels that the county overspent during the gas boom years, and that the bill is coming due. �We got wasteful and stupid and now we have to go back to common sense,� Corrine Weatherly, who owns a dress- and costume-making shop, Sew What, told me. Ms. Weatherly also runs the county fair, and so she shows up to almost every Quorum Court meeting.

This worldview will continue to affect national elections. The most dominant news source here is Fox News, which I think helps perpetuate these attitudes. There�s another element, too: For decades, the dominant conservative theory of politics is that government should be run like a business, lean and efficient, and one of the biggest private employers here is Walmart, where Mr. James was working when he was elected.

There�s a prevailing sense of scarcity � it�s easy for people who have lived much of their lives in a place where $25 an hour seems like a high salary to believe there just isn�t enough money to go around. The government, here and elsewhere, just can�t afford to help anyone, people told me. The attitude extends to national issues, like immigration. Ms. Hamilton told me she�d witnessed, in Texas, a hospital being practically bankrupted by the cost of caring for immigrants and said, �I don�t want my tax dollars to be used to pay for people that are coming here just to sit on a government ticket.� Mr. Widener, who described himself as �more libertarian� than anything else, told me his heart goes out to migrant children who are held in detention centers at the border, but he blames the parents who brought them to this country.

Where I see needless cruelty, my neighbors see necessary reality.

The people left in rural areas are more and more conservative, and convinced that the only way to get things done is to do them yourself. Especially as services have disappeared, they are more resentful about having to pay taxes, even ones that might restore those services.

And many of those who want to live in a place with better schools, better roads and bigger public libraries have taken Ms. Hamilton�s suggestion � they�ve moved to places that can afford to offer them. This includes many of my peers from high school who left for college or jobs and permanently settled in bigger, wealthier cities and towns around the region.

Over the summer, after the uproar about Ms. Singleton�s pay, library supporters gathered signatures for a special election that would have slightly increased the amount of county property taxes collected for the library, helping it pay off the new building and stave off closing altogether. It set off a new furor, even though the increase was estimated to cost about $20 a year for properties assessed at $100,000, and many people have properties valued at much less than that.

Phillip Ellis, who was chosen to be chairman of the library board right before the controversies began, thought the outrage about the potential tax increase was more about philosophy than actual numbers. �I think it�s just anti-tax anything,� he said.

He recounted some of the complaints people in the county had made to him about the proposed increase. �They�d say, �So-and-so has a big farm and they may not even use the library.�� he recalled. He would tell them, �Well, I don�t have children and never use the school.� With that sort of mentality, he said, �no one will do anything.�

That was the crux of the issue � people didn�t want to pay for something they didn�t think they would use. I suspect that many residents are willing to pay for some institutions they see as necessary, like the sheriff�s department, but libraries, symbols of public education and public discourse, are more easily sacrificed.

The library tax vote was quickly scrapped: Instead, Mr. James has suggested extending a 1 percent sales tax that went into place in 2001 to help pay for a new hospital building. Residents are due to vote on the idea in March.

Many other counties have turned to sales taxes as property taxes dwindle: It means that people who stop to shop when they�re passing through pay it as well, but it�s also a tax that tends to fall harder on lower-income households. It is also likely to be more expensive for some residents than a property tax increase would have been, but it will be paid in small amounts over time at the grocery store and Walmart, and voters are less likely to notice it.

If the tax extension passes, it�s estimated to pay off the library debt in about a year. But it delays a reckoning on whether and how the people who live here should contribute to the well-being of the county�s infrastructure and services.

A considerable part of rural America is shrinking, and, for some, this means it�s time to go into retreat. Rather than pitching in to maintain what they have, people are willing to go it alone, to devote all their resources to their own homes and their own families.

It makes me wonder if appeals from Democratic candidates still hoping to win Trump voters over by offering them more federal services will work. Many of the Democratic front-runners have released plans that call for more federal tax investment in rural infrastructure. Mr. Widener told me he had watched some of the Democratic debates, and his reaction was that everything the candidates proposed was �going to cost me money.�

Economic appeals are not going to sway any Trump voters, who view anyone who is trying to increase government spending, especially to help other people, with disdain, even if it ultimately helps them, too. And Trump voters are carrying the day here in Van Buren County. They see Mr. Trump�s slashing of the national safety net and withdrawal from the international stage as necessities � these things reflect their own impulse writ large.

They believe every tax dollar spent now is wasteful and foolish and they will have to pay for it later. It is as if there will be a nationwide scramble to cover the shortfall just as there was here with the library. As long as Democrats make promises to make their lives better with free college and Medicare for all sound like they include government spending, these voters will turn to Trump again � and it won�t matter how many scandals he�s been tarnished by.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:21

DaveWoo: Aug 14, 2004; Fun Shoe

BrandorKP posted:

I know there is a lot of hate for the times, but this one is worth a read.

In the Land of Self-Defeat https://nyti.ms/2IpVNmd

Well, that was a bummer of a read. Like a completely unironic version of that "better things aren't possible!" tweet.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:29

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

Helith posted:

I have a bad feeling he got this idea from the Australian immigration model, as health insurance is a requirement for a lot of visas here, though only for the first year (at least that's how it worked when I first immigrated 7 years ago). Also Australian insurance isn't as insanely priced as American insurance is and you become eligible to enroll for Medicare once you apply for permanent residency.

Canada does a form of this too. A story I remember in particular from a few years ago: https://www.thestar.com/news/immigration/2015/05/16/deaf-teen-deemed-medically-inadmissible-to-join-mother-in-canada.html

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:30

Skex: Feb 22, 2012; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Republicans posted:

Pushing back on Russiagate hysterics is fine but unironically citing Glenn Kessler as an arbiter of truth is going too far.

OK since some people seem to be a little slow on the pick up.

What exactly do you think Putin wanted in exchange for his assistance in the 2016 election?

You do know where all the sanctions started right? It's always been about Ukraine for Putin. And Trump just handed him a huge victory.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:33

PainterofCrap: Oct 17, 2002; hey bebe

syntaxrigger posted:

Heh another one if these

https://twitter.com/JimSwiftDC/status/1180093803287470082?s=09

Bad Company

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:33

cr0y: Mar 24, 2005

syntaxrigger posted:

Heh another one if these

https://twitter.com/JimSwiftDC/status/1180093803287470082?s=09

The Four Treasons

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:35

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

BrandorKP posted:

I know there is a lot of hate for the times, but this one is worth a read.

In the Land of Self-Defeat https://nyti.ms/2IpVNmd

you know people in these places whine that big city liberals look down on them and I�m just like OF COURSE WE DO HOW COULD WE NOT

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:38

bird cooch: Jan 19, 2007

Re: land of self defeat

after reading that I am rapidly oscillating between "gently caress them" and some people are incapable of making reasonable decisions which sounds a whole lot like "gently caress them" to me.

I live in North Texas in a medium-sized town and here in the DFW metroplex we are suffering from totally screwed up roads super delayed construction projects and the lack of funding in some areas and it can be directly pointed at the tax exemptions given to huge businesses that are based here. There's a million ways to dodge taxes here and everybody around uses every single one of them. Everyone is a contractor.

It's honestly just pathetic. We moved from the insane Seattle housing market and were able to afford to buy a house here in an old development on large lots well outside of town, but that's going away. the old people in the neighborhood just got the zoning changed so that they can subdivide their properties when they sell. they raised their families here (most people are the original owners from the 60s, my family is the youngest by more than 40 years) and now that they are retiring to Florida or one of the local retirement communities we can look forward to being surrounded by mcmansions on zero lot line properties without any improvements to the roads or infrastructure.

The old are burning the world down on their way out the door.

This isn't an area that would need high density or medium density housing other than for-profit. I work from home, it's far enough away from any of the major Urban centers that there's absolutely no reason other than greed.

It's just everywhere, it's just greed.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:40

nachos: Jun 27, 2004; Wario Chalmers! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Every single one of those rural voters tripped over themselves to vote for a guy who wanted to spend billions of tax dollars on a useless wall and making the biggest military in the world incrementally bigger. gently caress that article.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:43

Cable Guy: Jul 18, 2005; I don't expect any trouble, but we'll be handing these out later...; Slippery Tilde

Ague Proof posted:

https://twitter.com/travis_view/status/1180242190741598208

Meanwhile Karl Rove has written an editorial in the Weekend Australian.... It's behind a paywall so here it is:

quote:

The Democrat way: Verdict first, hold trial later
KARL ROVE

Adam Schiff, after channelling his inner Scorsese, with �Saint� Nancy Pelosi at the Capitol in Washington on Thursday. Picture: AP

It has been only 11 days since US House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi declared that the house was �moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry� of President Donald Trump, and Democrats are already blowing it.

They are moving much too quickly. Democrats toss around the word �urgent� as if speed is the prime imperative � more important than finding the truth or following procedure.

After explaining that events �accelerated the pace� for beginning impeachment, Ms Pelosi told reporters, �We have to strike while the iron is hot,� repeating the phrase for emphasis. That means house Democrats will likely hold hearings for a few weeks once they return in mid-October, and aim for a floor vote on articles of impeachment by year�s end.

The Democrats� need for speed has already resulted in unfairness. Consider Friday�s demand by three committee chairmen � Elijah Cummings, Eliot Engel and Adam Schiff � that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo provide documents and depositions from five State Department officials starting October 2.

Mr Pompeo pushed back, arguing that two business days wasn�t enough time for those called to consult private and department lawyers and prepare to answer questions under oath, let alone for the State Department to review the requested documents to decide whether they were privileged or classified, or whether to co-operate at all.

In response, the chairmen threatened Mr Pompeo, saying delay �is illegal and will constitute evidence of obstruction of the impeachment inquiry�. They�re bluffing, but this is how they operate. Verdict first, trial later. Break the rules. Ignore due process. And fairness be damned.

The impeachment process began not with the house voting to authorise an inquiry, as has been done previously, but with Speaker Pelosi simply declaring it is under way. This denied the opposition the right to certain protections and procedures, such as guaranteeing the ability to call witnesses and requiring committee votes on important matters. It means Ms Pelosi can give six Democratic committee chairmen a piece of the inquiry rather than lodging it all with judiciary chairman Jerrold Nadler. He has proved a lousy public face for his party as well as an incompetent director of the impeachment orchestra.

Ms Pelosi should be dubbed �Tsarina Nancy the Great� for protecting her caucus�s vulnerable members from a tough vote on launching an impeachment investigation. By simply granting herself power to authorise the process, she hopes to minimise the fallout for red-district Democrats while still sending the Senate a resolution demanding the removal of a president she detests. Good luck with that. If this is all they got, two-thirds of the Senate ain�t going along.

The rhetoric of house Democrats has made them appear inept � and appearances aren�t always deceiving. Consider Mr Schiff�s stunt in opening the intelligence committee�s hearing on Mr Trump�s conversation with the president of Ukraine. Mr Schiff channelled his inner Martin Scorsese to revise the call�s transcript, adding new words to make it sound like a scene out of Goodfellas. He read his treatment to a national cable audience, only later admitting it was a �parody�.

Financial services chairman Maxine Waters tweeted on Tuesday that �impeachment is not good enough for Trump. He needs to be imprisoned & placed in solitary confinement�. That last part, such a nice touch!

Yet all this zeal is unlikely to convince America that it�s right to overturn the last presidential election and pre-empt the next one � only a year away � by evicting the occupant of the White House.

Impeachment will drown out public awareness of legislation house Democrats passed to �lower drug costs, increase worker pay and clean up Washington,� as their website proclaims, leaving them to look impeachment obsessed. The good news for Democrats is that impeachment will also drown out their caucus�s goofy ideas. Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez introduced six bills last week to create a �just society� with national rent control, federal benefits for illegal aliens and more. The program�s idiocy makes her Green New Deal look like the Federalist Papers.

Democrats have apparently forgotten that president Richard Nixon resigned only after 13 months of hearings. A Senate select committee investigation was led by Democrat Sam Ervin, a self-described �country lawyer� from North Carolina, assisted by Tennessee Republican Howard Baker, who famously asked, �What did the president know and when did he know it?� This was followed by a three-month house judiciary committee inquiry. Even then, Nixon decided to go only because a �smoking gun� tape recording was released.

Two generations later, house Democrats are taking a different tack. Rushing to remove this president may be cathartic for them, but their transparent partisanship and unfairness will ensure that they fail � leaving the country even more divided and bitter.

syntaxrigger posted:

Heh another one if these

https://twitter.com/JimSwiftDC/status/1180093803287470082?s=09

Band on the Run

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:43

Flowers for QAnon: May 20, 2019

BrandorKP posted:

I know there is a lot of hate for the times, but this one is worth a read.

In the Land of Self-Defeat https://nyti.ms/2IpVNmd

This post just makes me further wonder why dem tax plan messaging hasn�t focused on hard, relatable numbers. E.g.

People making under $50k will see a 20% increase in take-home pay; people making over $1MM per year will see a 10% reduction

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:46

i am harry: Oct 14, 2003

bird cooch posted:

Re: land of self defeat

One of the strongest reasons I wanted to leave the area was because of this general "I don't use it so who the gently caress cares" attitude that manifests especially clearly in the quality and quantity of public parks and children's play areas.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:48

Snowman_McK: Jan 31, 2010

Dapper_Swindler posted:

https://twitter.com/gregpmiller/status/1180303515530534914

holy gently caress. all these guys are weird fucks.

Remember how it was a sign of the apocalypse that Obama had appointed people called 'Tsars' to oversee certain things?

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:50

BigBallChunkyTime: Nov 25, 2011; Kyle Schwarber: World Series hero, Beefy Lad, better than you.; Illegal Hen

cr0y posted:

The Four Treasons

I feel like this is the winner.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:56

ArgumentatumE.C.T.: Nov 5, 2016; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

I wanted to pop back in sometime and close off my last post with an

Ah! Well. Nevertheless,

but i guess it all petered out too quietly to remind me to come back and point out that nothing is happening anymore.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 03:57

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:

I wanted to pop back in sometime and close off my last post with an

Ah! Well. Nevertheless,

but i guess it all petered out too quietly to remind me to come back and point out that nothing is happening anymore.

except actually no, you're wrong

how do you live through this week and make this post

# ? Oct 5, 2019 04:03

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:

I wanted to pop back in sometime and close off my last post with an

Ah! Well. Nevertheless,

but i guess it all petered out too quietly to remind me to come back and point out that nothing is happening anymore.

are you drunk?

# ? Oct 5, 2019 04:07

BigBallChunkyTime: Nov 25, 2011; Kyle Schwarber: World Series hero, Beefy Lad, better than you.; Illegal Hen

GreyjoyBastard posted:

except actually no, you're wrong

how do you live through this week and make this post

While I'm 95% sure The Great Mattering us upon us, we're still at the mercy of Nancy Pelosi. It's completely up to her if there's an impeachment vote. She wasn't in any hurry to open the inquiry and she doesn't seem to be in a hurry to get a floor vote.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 04:08

goethe.cx: Apr 23, 2014

BigBallChunkyTime posted:

While I'm 95% sure The Great Mattering us upon us, we're still at the mercy of Nancy Pelosi. It's completely up to her if there's an impeachment vote. She wasn't in any hurry to open the inquiry and she doesn't seem to be in a hurry to get a floor vote.

She may be spineless but she�s not dumb. Opening an �impeachment inquiry� without ever holding an actual impeachment vote would be catastrophically stupid, especially given the evidence that�s come out in just a week

# ? Oct 5, 2019 04:11

PainterofCrap: Oct 17, 2002; hey bebe

BigBallChunkyTime posted:

While I'm 95% sure The Great Mattering us upon us, we're still at the mercy of Nancy Pelosi. It's completely up to her if there's an impeachment vote. She wasn't in any hurry to open the inquiry and she doesn't seem to be in a hurry to get a floor vote.

I'm probably Charlie Brown-ing with respect to Pelosi here, but it seems that with all of these committees churnin' & crimes 'a' poppin, that they're getting their ever-increasing flock of ducks into some semblance of a row.

There will be a hammer drop. Let's not forget: they're in recess at the moment.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 04:15

Ringo Star Get: Sep 18, 2006; JUST FUCKING TAKE OFF ALREADY, SHIT

Wife and I just watched Schindler�s List and in my mind, a billionaire today would look at the group of Jews at the end of the movie and say �for ten of them I could have gotten another car. At least two would have gotten me a pin.�

# ? Oct 5, 2019 04:16

Phobic Nest: Oct 2, 2013; You Are My Sunshine

syntaxrigger posted:

Heh another one if these

https://twitter.com/JimSwiftDC/status/1180093803287470082?s=09

The thumbnail version of that Twitter post really Uncanny Valley's the gently caress out of my brain. People are supposed to be more than sixish heads tall my neurons scream, while my rational mind knows it's their detailed fleshy neckmeats contrasting with their simplistic suitbodies that's hurting my mind's eye. These people are almost as horrifying outside as they are inside and that's saying a goddamn lot.

Dick Trauma posted:

https://twitter.com/iAmTheWarax/status/1180281090981994498

This, oh motherfucking this. I've heard plenty of peeps in this thread express the sentiment that they wished hell was real, but gently caress yeah the Phantom Zone needs to be made real like yesterday.

Phobic Nest fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Oct 5, 2019

# ? Oct 5, 2019 04:16

Dick Trauma: Nov 30, 2007; God damn it, you've got to be kind.

https://twitter.com/iAmTheWarax/status/1180281090981994498

# ? Oct 5, 2019 04:17

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 6, 2024 06:33

thin blue whine: Feb 21, 2004; PLEASE SEE POLICY; Soiled Meat

BrandorKP posted:

I know there is a lot of hate for the times, but this one is worth a read.

In the Land of Self-Defeat

These are the same people that will scream socialism is people just wanting free stuff and, really, what they actually want is free stuff. Anyway a majority of the country doesn't care that they don't want to pay for poo poo (that they're unlikely to even pay for!). Anyway, whatever

https://twitter.com/LivPosting/status/1156613328157851648

# ? Oct 5, 2019 04:21

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL Fall: Biden the hand that feeds you

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