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You still be getting shot once a turn by the invulnerable archer in the city, or twice a turn if it's a coastal city with a ranged boat in it, or a million times a turn if bombers have been invented
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Oct 4, 2019 16:19
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Gort posted:You still be getting shot once a turn by the invulnerable archer in the city, or twice a turn if it's a coastal city with a ranged boat in it, or a million times a turn if bombers have been invented I think the archer takes damage if you hit the city? And you can deal with bombers by using fighters/SAMs I think the cities are generally more killable than you're all implying. You should just expect to lose a unit or two in the process, which is almost always worth it to take a decent city.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:38
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AnoHito posted:I think the archer takes damage if you hit the city? And you can deal with bombers by using fighters/SAMs Yeah, is not that hard. It just takes a smart use of ranged, siege and melee units. The thing is that the AI is totally incapable of pulling that off, except, sometimes, when attacking a clueless human player or another dumb AI player But then again, thats a problem with the AI, not with the combat system
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Oct 4, 2019 16:43
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AnoHito posted:I think the archer takes damage if you hit the city? And you can deal with bombers by using fighters/SAMs Eh, humans have no trouble taking cities, especially once bombers and artillery are in the game. It's the AI that loses units because they just mill around in range of the city getting shot every turn.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:46
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Civ is only historical in the sense that it's the theme. There is absolutely zero mechanics in the games that reflects history in any sense, whatsoever. Also sieges in all the games, doomstacks or no, are over by a turn or so.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:30
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Civ 5 or 6 have yet to get Fall From Heaven 2. Case closed.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:31
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I can only play CivV with Vox Populi.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:55
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Senior Dog posted:I’d call the civ series history inspired or history aware over history based tbh Yeah the Sid Meier thing is to inspire a bit of wonder and curiosity rather than actually teach.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:56
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Average Bear posted:Civ 5 or 6 have yet to get Fall From Heaven 2. Case closed.
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Oct 4, 2019 18:28
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If you're having doomstack problems I feel bad for you son, I play Fall From Heaven 2 and killing a stack aint one
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Oct 4, 2019 21:24
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Yeah Civ is something I play when I want a gamey thing, but I almost never play it because the fun to me is just the early game not winning the game. Granted part of that is theme, as I prefer pre gunpowder stuff. And hey Civ 5/6 has Anno Domini for classical theming which I love the hell out of. And since Imperator still isn't good 
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Oct 4, 2019 21:31
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I've only played a bit of Civ2 and Civ4, before I realised I just prefer the Paradox style of strategy, but... why not have limits on the number of units you can stack onto a tile instead of one per? It could be based on, say, terrain and tech and civ bonuses. It seems like a case where neither extreme really works great, for all the reasons said, but you could do something neat if you did something halfway inbetween.
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Oct 4, 2019 21:47
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IIRC Civ 3 did something where you made "armies" out of your unit stacks which sounds a bit like what you're suggesting but I haven't played that game for probably 20 years so I'm definitely remembering extremely poorly.
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Oct 4, 2019 21:56
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Average Bear posted:Civ 5 or 6 have yet to get Fall From Heaven 2. Case closed. Thats because Endless Legend is the sucessor to Fall From Heaven 2
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Oct 4, 2019 22:42
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I don't really see what's so bad about doomstacks. It's not a great system but it works and has a very obvious counter (which is why it's not used so much in MP). More importantly, the AI actually knows how to play the game with stacks. It does not know how to play with 1UPT.
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Oct 5, 2019 01:48
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AnEdgelord posted:Thats because Endless Legend is the sucessor to Fall From Heaven 2 It's not even close, unfortunately. I assume EL is gonna get a sequel at some point though, so we'll see
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Oct 5, 2019 01:52
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I never figured out FFH2, why was it so great?
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Oct 5, 2019 03:21
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AnEdgelord posted:Thats because Endless Legend is the sucessor to Fall From Heaven 2 I thought that was one of the Elemental games? Didn't one of them actually hire the Fall From Heaven guy?
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Oct 5, 2019 03:34
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:I never figured out FFH2, why was it so great? It makes a really fun and well written fantasy setting. Magic systems, new victory conditions, mid/late game conflicts, and the civs are all fantastic and play very different.
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Oct 5, 2019 03:42
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Fuligin posted:It's not even close, unfortunately. I assume EL is gonna get a sequel at some point though, so we'll see Idk Ive played both and have basically no desire to play FFH2 now that I have EL. It fulfills the same itch for a really interesting setting filled with super distinct factions. Really the only thing that I prefer from FFH2 is the combat system but thats more an indictment of EL's combat system than praise for FFH2.
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Oct 5, 2019 03:58
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:I never figured out FFH2, why was it so great? whacky fantasy setting with civs they played very differently from one another and paths down the tech tree you could chase that were all very different from each other and several religions and governments that, get this, were all veeeery different from each other. You could play the Empire who fought their way out of hell onto this desolate wasteland and restart the same seed etc and have entirely different games each time. Maybe they're the cthulhu worshipping wizardkings, or the demon-pact sword and boards, or etc. it took everything good about civ and turned it to eleven, with the downside of the AI couldn't entiiiirely get everything and MP civ4 is an exercise in frustration. And desyncs.
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Oct 5, 2019 04:13
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxFaTAfRiP4&list=WL&index=6
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Oct 5, 2019 04:24
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catlord posted:I thought that was one of the Elemental games? Didn't one of them actually hire the Fall From Heaven guy? Yes, he worked on Fallen Enchantress and its expansion Legendary Heroes. Lead designer, no less. He also worked on Sorcerer King games. Strange how crude and cringey mod (you can hire Guybrush Treepwood and he can sing for you) is more beloved than the same guy doing a full-blown game.
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Oct 5, 2019 10:41
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I now see why Paradox is hesitant to make Victoria 3. About half of his points I agree with, the other half I couldn't disagree more with, and I'm sure the same could be said for a lot of people watching, but with completely different points. Basically, people are going to dislike a lot of the mythical Victoria 3 no matter what it ends up looking like (if it ever gets made) just purely from their own personal philosophy of what these types of games should be like. I still think the game needs to be updated, if people don't like it they can mod the new cleaner updated version with some of the most obviously egregious things fixed.
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Oct 5, 2019 10:55
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trapped mouse posted:I now see why Paradox is hesitant to make Victoria 3. About half of his points I agree with, the other half I couldn't disagree more with, and I'm sure the same could be said for a lot of people watching, but with completely different points. Basically, people are going to dislike a lot of the mythical Victoria 3 no matter what it ends up looking like (if it ever gets made) just purely from their own personal philosophy of what these types of games should be like. What sort of mad man actually prefers chance based diplomacy?
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Oct 5, 2019 11:34
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ilitarist posted:Yes, he worked on Fallen Enchantress and its expansion Legendary Heroes. Lead designer, no less. He also worked on Sorcerer King games. Games bland, mod good. Not more to it tbh. Part of the appeal of FFH is how crazy things get, while FE and SK are incredibly bland in comparison, both in terms of gameplay and theme.
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Oct 5, 2019 11:54
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Yeah, probably. I don't like FE cause it's like moving numbers around and differently colored people pretend they're different. (Maybe it's a social commentary hiding as straightforward boring design?) I can't stomach FFH2 for liberal use of art I've seen elsewhere and dumb amateur stuff like Guybrush I've mentioned, Inquisition being literally from Monthy Python and so on and so on. But I can see that there's a lot of great to it. It resembles Total War Warhammer in many ways with its several apocalypse things happening in the background - heaven/hell war, religious tech able to summon demon and angel factions, powerful beings coming into the world. Come to think of it, Stellaris also is similar to that but it goes out of its way to make empire management more boring than bank accountant's daily job.
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Oct 5, 2019 12:04
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trapped mouse posted:I now see why Paradox is hesitant to make Victoria 3. About half of his points I agree with, the other half I couldn't disagree more with, and I'm sure the same could be said for a lot of people watching, but with completely different points. Basically, people are going to dislike a lot of the mythical Victoria 3 no matter what it ends up looking like (if it ever gets made) just purely from their own personal philosophy of what these types of games should be like. I'm not that far into the video but this guy is nuts. Really, an HoI ship designer in Vicky? Rebel buffs, without considering how stupid the whole rebellion system is in the first place?
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Oct 5, 2019 13:42
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The goofy imagery fits 4's theme very well. Which reminds me, can civ games try to feel fun again instead of self serious and chrome painted
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Oct 5, 2019 14:48
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They try to be fun, didn't you like Kilimanjaro "no wi-fi" quote?
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Oct 5, 2019 17:37
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:I'm not that far into the video but this guy is nuts. Really, an HoI ship designer in Vicky? Rebel buffs, without considering how stupid the whole rebellion system is in the first place? Yeah I think some of the stuff he mentions is pretty common sense (putting soldier pops into a common pool rather than all being per province, using HoI4 large scale unit management instead of having to micro everything), and I like his concept for the way the world market should work because it makes trade relations with neighbours a lot more meaningful and gives you more levers to pull to manage the economy rather than having it just be some huge black box, but some of the other stuff in the video is just kind of like, way too much detail in areas that aren't the primary focus of the game. I get the intention to put more emphasis on the naval game which was a big deal in the time period, but I feel like the economic suggestions he has would already do that without having to get super granular with custom ship designs or anything. This is kind of the problem that a lot of Victoria fans tend to have with their dream designs for V3 though - they seem to see Victoria as like a "best of" collection of all the other Paradox titles rather than its own unique title with its own unique focus. Victoria is a game about economics and internal political management - warfare is a big aspect of the game but it shouldn't be as detailed than like, Hearts of Iron, a game that is ABOUT warfare.
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Oct 5, 2019 20:42
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My favorite thing about Vicky is how you can play tall and become number one.
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Oct 5, 2019 20:50
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remove clickable units in Vicky 3, alternatly don't put in something dumb as hell like a ship designer and instead put in a mobilization planner 
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Oct 5, 2019 21:01
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I hate custom unit designs in Paradox games. The combat mechanics are always so obscure and poorly documented in-game that I can never tell what the different stats effect and which ones are cost effective. There's no decision making - you either ignore it completely or google the optimal build and stick with that. Like CK2 retinues.
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Oct 5, 2019 21:25
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The problem with Victoria 3 is that, much like Victoria 2, it will take 10 years to be good.
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Oct 5, 2019 22:44
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make victoria 3 you cowards
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Oct 5, 2019 23:15
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Wiz won't let me down. Victoria 3 will be real and amazing.
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Oct 5, 2019 23:51
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We will get Victoria 3, but it will be called Victorinox and it will be all about the rise of the Swiss watchmaking industry in the 1800s, and will focus on having to source thousands of little parts to make timepieces.
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Oct 6, 2019 00:53
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Dramicus posted:We will get Victoria 3, but it will be called Victorinox and it will be all about the rise of the Swiss watchmaking industry in the 1800s, and will focus on having to source thousands of little parts to make timepieces. Is this supposed to be a downside? I'd probably still have fun with that.
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Oct 6, 2019 00:56
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Have you guys considered that Paradox no longer wants to develop the Congo Free State simulator?
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Oct 6, 2019 01:10
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