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teagone posted:Installed a Wraith Max cooler on my Ryzen 3 2200G today, with the pre-applied paste. Doing a Prime95 small FFT test right now and it's been locked at around 74-75C for the past 10 minutes or so. That's fine right? Idles around 32-34C with the fan at ~1400 RPM. That's more than fine. Prime 95 is a torture test designed to answer the question "what if I ran every part of my processor as fast as possible for a while?" and you're not even close to the the 2200G's max operating temperature (95 degrees). Even though you'll also be running the iGPU during gaming, I suspect you'll be significantly under 75 in pretty much any real-world application (but again, 75 is totally fine). kumba posted:CPU went in just fine and yeah arrow bottom left I'd also try using different ports on the gpu, and maybe different cables if you have them. If you have an old gpu lying around, you could give that a go too. Maybe switch up the PCIe power cable connected to the gpu. And double-check that you have the 8-pin EPS connector for the CPU connected (it sounds like you probably have this, but I haven't seen it mentioned yet). The fact that it starts up for 30 seconds makes it sound like it's probably posting, just not displaying anything. Stickman fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 04:02
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ItBreathes posted:Not really. Indiana_Krom posted:RAM not on the QVL may not be able to reach its full sticker rated speeds (which are usually an overclock), but all RAM should work at the JEDEC standardized speeds and timings. In the case of DDR4 the JEDEC speed for the majority of the kits out there is 2133 MHz and should work in any motherboard regardless of the QVL. Ok thanks 
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Oct 6, 2019 04:08
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My EVGA Z390 FTW board didn't like my GSkill 3600mhz memory, it wouldn't boot (or would crash shortly after) with it tweaked beyond the 2133mhz default. A new BIOS update (1.08) came out finally and I just installed it and set it to XMP @ the advertised speed and its working fine so far. About to try some gaming to see how it holds up. I really thought I was gonna have to RMA the memory which I didn't want to do as it meant I would have to be down for god knows how long after it took me about 6 months to piece together this rig with my tight finances.
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Oct 6, 2019 04:12
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Mr. Apollo posted:Ok thanks Yeah, worst case scenario you'll just need to manually overclock and might not quite reach advertised speeds. QVL lists are pretty lacking which can affect XMP profile support, since those depend on the motherboard manufacturer to set good timings. The cheapest name-brand RAM like G.Skill Ripjaw 5 or Corsair Vengeance should be fine for pretty much anything at this point. If you're interested in doing a little overclocking, Crucial Ballistix Sport kits are usually pretty close to the cheapest price and their Samsung E-die memory usually overclocks pretty well with a little extra voltage. E: I guess should say 3000/3200 Ripjaws, Aegis, or Vengeance. The 3600 kits are still a little hit or miss for XMP support, though you could probably still hit 3600 with a manual overclock. Stickman fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 04:13
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Stickman posted:That's more than fine. Prime 95 is a torture test designed to answer the question "what if I ran every part of my processor as fast as possible for a while?" and you're not even close to the the 2200G's max operating temperature (95 degrees). Even though you'll also be running the iGPU during gaming, I suspect you'll be significantly under 75 in pretty much any real-world application (but again, 75 is totally fine). Awesome, thanks for the validation. Was worried I might have hosed up the install with the pre-applied paste lol. I wish HSFs were easier to install. Even after building PCs for over a decade, installing a CPU cooler is still the most nerve-wracking thing for me. I stopped the test a few minutes ago, a little under an hour total. The max temp dipped down to 73 C once or twice, and went back and forth from 74 to 75, but never exceeded 75C. Back to idling at around 32C. I figure my idle temp could be better, but the case isn't the greatest (NZXT Tempest 210); has two 120mm intake fans and one rear 120mm exhaust. But the PC also has seven 3.5" internal HDDs that I'm guessing affect idle temps a bit. The room the PC is in also gets kinda warm.
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Oct 6, 2019 04:24
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Idling at 32 is also fantastic. In fact, it's so fantastic that I would even consider lowering your fan curve on the idle end - you're not going to damage your cpu idling higher and keeping it that low is just making your idle require more power, noise, and fan wear!
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Oct 6, 2019 04:44
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Oct 6, 2019 04:47
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huhwhat posted:I pulled the trigger on my build and immediately got buyer's remorse over the shitshow that is updating the motherboard BIOS to support Ryzen 3600 without having an older gen AMD CPU on hand. With the quotes for BIOS flashing given by shops, it almost made me wish I had paid 100 extra and gotten an X570 board. Is that a problem specific to a B450 and the 3600, to your chosen motherboard and a 3600, or something I need to worry about with a B450 and the 2600?
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Oct 6, 2019 05:32
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Stickman posted:Idling at 32 is also fantastic. In fact, it's so fantastic that I would even consider lowering your fan curve on the idle end - you're not going to damage your cpu idling higher and keeping it that low is just making your idle require more power, noise, and fan wear! I'm just paranoid because the room the PC is in can get really warm, and it's at a remote location that I only visit on weekends. I forget the exact numbers I set the CPU fan curve to—think the first step is like 45% speed at 50C—but the idle fan speed keeping the CPU at 31-34C is ~1400 RPM. What's the lowest RPM you would recommend?
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Oct 6, 2019 05:39
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Spoke too soon! Crashed as soon as I loaded up apex and was treated to a truly delightful staticky sound blaring in my headset. I really don't wanna have to gently caress with manual configs, that's what xmp is for. Oh well
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Oct 6, 2019 05:41
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Black Griffon posted:Is that a problem specific to a B450 and the 3600, to your chosen motherboard and a 3600, or something I need to worry about with a B450 and the 2600? The only boards that do not require a BIOS update out of the box for Ryzen 3XXX are X570 boards. There are some boards that are supposedly pre-flashed with the new bios. I am told most stores typically will do the BIOS update for you if you buy it from them. Otherwise your motherboard will need to have a feature that allows you to update the bios without a CPU installed. The entire MSI lineup for the B450 chipset has this feature to my knowledge. Ryzen 2XXX chips should work out of the box with any B450 board with or without a BIOS update. edit: AMD has a loaner program that lends you a CPU and cooler so that you can install it on your B450 board, use it to run the BIOS update, and then send it back to them https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/pa-100 edit: We desperately need a new OP. MikeC fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 05:49
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Well that's one reason to stick with the 2600 then. Thanks!
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Oct 6, 2019 05:55
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I might've been a mite hyperbolic about the situation but I still think potential buyers of Ryzen 3000 series + B450 motherboard combo should factor in the cost of flashing the mobo when making their purchasing decision, especially if they're not in the US. -specific experienceThere's a bunch of threads on redflagdeals.com about the BIOS flash issue, this one's pretty representative re: solutions if you don't happen to have an older Ryzen lying around or know someone who has one https://forums.redflagdeals.com/resolved-older-am4-processor-needed-upgrade-bios-2180543/ 1. Get a local service shop to flash the BIOS. If you've bought the motherboard and the processor from them (not one or the other), they're likely to do it for free, but one user was reporting that Canada Computers still charged them $20. Some people have reported prices as outrageous as $40 (did not buy mobo+processor from Canada Computers) and $70. Where I'm at, some guy was asking $20 if you showed up at his house with your mobo and one shop quoted $25. 2. Get AMD to send you a 200GE. You might think that this is a cost-effective option, but it's not if you're outside the US. Return shipping is not paid for by AMD and someone who tried this route reported that it cost $20 to ship the processor back. Also AMD will try to get you to exhaust all other options first (e.g., contacting your motherboard's manufacturer) before they'd agree to ship you the processor. 3. Get a cheap AM4 processor to flash the mobo and hope you can resell it later. A 200GE shipped from China costs about $50-$60 total.
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Oct 6, 2019 15:27
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Could you not just buy a cheap AM4 and return it?
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Oct 6, 2019 15:35
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My 3700X (PBO enabled, ram at 3200MHz) peaks above 80C, even with an NH-D15 cooler (with the AM4 mounting kit, so the mounting pressure is correct). But as long as it's rock stable and the noise levels are under control, I don't really mind.
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Oct 6, 2019 15:45
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ItBreathes posted:Could you not just buy a cheap AM4 and return it? Depends on whether the store has a good return policy. Restocking fees, shipping etc all adds up.
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Oct 6, 2019 15:56
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Or just buy a MSI B450 Tomahawk Max which comes pre-flashed with Ryzen 3000 compatible BIOS AND also cheaper than the original Tomahawk. (in Canada, at least)
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Oct 6, 2019 17:07
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Unless you’re talking iTX (where no boards have a flash bios button), the MSi B450 boards with CPUless usb flash bios button are the best value anyway. That’s why we never recommend other B450/X470 boards for a new 3rd-gen build unless you’re buying from Microcenter, where they’ll update your bios for free. I think pretty much every goon that’s posted here has gotten their MSi B450 to update properly. Outside of the US the MAX boards are best value, but for some reason they’re still not available in the States. Stickman fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 18:47
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Wibla posted:My 3700X (PBO enabled, ram at 3200MHz) peaks above 80C, even with an NH-D15 cooler (with the AM4 mounting kit, so the mounting pressure is correct). But as long as it's rock stable and the noise levels are under control, I don't really mind. Have you tested performance with and without PBO? Most of the benchmarks I’ve seen have either had no increase in performance over PB2, or a small decrease due to more thermal throttling. Ryzen 3 has a very steep cliff in its voltage/clock curve. E: I haven’t paid too much attention since launch, though - it’s possible that it’s been improved by the microcode updates. grimcreaper posted:Shouldn't it be on Ryzen Balanced if hes got the newest chipset drivers? You’re right, Ryzen balanced is now preferred. Thanks! Stickman fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 18:56
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I feel like a loving idiot, I'm so goddamn frustrated right now, I don't know why but I cannot for the life of me remove the side panel from this loving PC case: http://nanoxia-world.com/media/pdf/4d/ed/31/DS3_manual_english.pdf I've literally watched this video where the guy does it but the thing will not loving come off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0fPbNL_UNI I've unscrewed the two feet in the bottom, I've unscrewed the two parts in the back, I'm doing the same side, I don't know why it won't come off. I don't know why. I gouged my goddamn table trying to get the loving thing off, I don't know what I'm doing wrong but it has to be incredibly simple, god loving dammit edit: I figured how to do it like ten seconds after hitting post; I'm exactly as stupid as I thought I was surf rock fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 20:18
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surf rock posted:I feel like a loving idiot, I'm so goddamn frustrated right now, I don't know why but I cannot for the life of me remove the side panel from this loving PC case: http://nanoxia-world.com/media/pdf/4d/ed/31/DS3_manual_english.pdf  Congrats on the midi tower!
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Oct 6, 2019 20:22
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Stickman posted:Have you tested performance with and without PBO? Most of the benchmarks I’ve seen have either had no increase in performance over PB2, or a small decrease due to more thermal throttling. Ryzen 3 has a very steep cliff in its voltage/clock curve. Yeah, PBO is somewhat faster. Not sure if its worth the tradeoff in heat though, but at the same time, winter is coming (literally), and I rarely max out 8 cores anyway 
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Oct 6, 2019 20:23
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Wibla posted:Yeah, PBO is somewhat faster. Not sure if its worth the tradeoff in heat though, but at the same time, winter is coming (literally), and I rarely max out 8 cores anyway Thanks! It's good to have some more data points, and glad it's actually a bit of boost Apparently there's rumors that next AGESA is supposed to have PB2/PBO improvements as well. surf rock posted:edit: I figured how to do it like ten seconds after hitting post; I'm exactly as stupid as I thought I was Happens to all of us
Stickman fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 20:59
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What country are you in?: USA What are you using the system for?: Video editing, 3d modeling, gaming What's your budget? $800 If you’re doing professional work, what software do you need to use? What’s your typical project size and complexity? Non professional, short films in premiere If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution? 1920x1200 and 2560x1080 (both 60hz). I dont mind sticking to the 1920x1200 for gaming but if it can handle the widescreen, great! How fancy do you want your graphics, from “it runs” to “Ultra preset as fast as possible”? I like running high res textures with at least 2xAA but I don't mind everything else like shadows, particles and the like on medium. My current computer is a 4670k OC'd to 4.2ghz, 16GB DDR3, and a GTX970. I wouldn't mind upgrading everything if its within my budget but I was thinking about just doing a 3700x or 3800x. I was leaning towards to 3800x since I like to hold on to my stuff for as long as possible and just burn it near the end. I was up to a fairly stable 4.5ghz on the 4670k at one point but brought it back down to 4.2 just to prolong it for a bit. Any opinions?
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Oct 6, 2019 21:20
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punch drunk posted:What country are you in?: I kinda feel like a used 1080 or a new 1660(ti?) would get you anything you wanted at that resolution. I can't imagine the CPU would bottleneck much at 60hz 1080p even with the wider screen. You'd definitely notice the improvement for your video editing though with a modern processor so there's that. I'd almost pick up the GPU part of the build first and just see how far off you find yourself from where you want to be.
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Oct 6, 2019 21:25
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OK, I have a slightly more advanced question this time. My motherboard has two power connector ports labeled ATX_12V1 and ATX_12V in the upper-left corner next to the IO shield:  So, there's a four pin and an eight pin ports. My power supply has two identical cables for CPU power (that each split into pair of four pin connectors):  This means I have 16 pins coming out of the power supply but only room for 12 pins. Is that OK, and if so, does it matter how they are hooked in? ----- Similarly my graphics card has two eight pin ports side-by-side with each other. The power supply also has two identical cables for VGA power, each of which split into a six pin connector and a two pin connector. I imagine it doesn't matter which of the cables goes into which eight pin port. However, I was wondering if it matters whether the two pin connector is on the left side or the right side. Thank you! I feel like I'm getting close! (I have been doing this for literally six hours)
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Oct 6, 2019 23:33
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surf rock posted:This means I have 16 pins coming out of the power supply but only room for 12 pins. Is that OK, and if so, does it matter how they are hooked in? That's okay, and no it doesn't matter. I suppose that's not [i]entirely[i] true - it's better to use two four-pin connectors from a single cable for the eight-pin slot. For most CPUs you likely wouldn't even need the 4-pin slot hooked up, but as long as you have the cables you might as well. surf rock posted:Similarly my graphics card has two eight pin ports side-by-side with each other. The power supply also has two identical cables for VGA power, each of which split into a six pin connector and a two pin connector. I imagine it doesn't matter which of the cables goes into which eight pin port. However, I was wondering if it matters whether the two pin connector is on the left side or the right side. You are correct. There's only one way that the six-pin connector will fit in the header so it'll be obvious where the 2-pin extension should connect. You got this
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Oct 6, 2019 23:45
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Stickman posted:You got this  I have no idea how people do cable management. I just tried to zip tie stuff together as much as possible. I'm a little worried that some of the cables in the upper-left are so close to the CPU cooler heatsink. There's about a quarter-inch gap between them... If they touch in the future, will it catch fire or something? I'm not even going to bother trying it tonight to see if this fucker works. Eight hours later (I imagine people who aren't first-time builders can do it... much faster), I'm tired and need to make dinner.
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Oct 7, 2019 01:14
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If you're not using those hard drive cages I'd remove them to give you more space to tie things down. Typically cases from NZXT and Fractal Design have routing ports so the cables can come in from the other side for cleaner organization. But I think your case is just a big heavy box.
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Oct 7, 2019 01:37
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surf rock posted:
What zeta said above this post is a good idea, and to answer your questions, it's totally fine for those cables to be close to the heatsink, it won't get hot enough to cause issues. It's more important to make sure the cables aren't interfering with any fans. Once you're happy with everything you gotta trim that extra length down on the zip ties it's just good manners 
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Oct 7, 2019 01:41
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surf rock posted:
That's not bad and touching isn't a big issue (though it's not ideal and will block some airflow). The key to clean-looking cable management in newer cases is to route all the cables behind the motherboard mounting plate using those ports with the rubber flaps (Nanoxia DS 2, but I think the routing is basically the same):   Their backside is pretty spaghetti - you could clean that up a bit with some zip ties. While the DS3 doesn't have routing channels like some cases, there are tie-down loops scattered across the backplate that you can use to anchor the zip-ties (circled).  This is from a Fractal Design R6, but it'll work mostly the same way in a DS3:  Those CPU cables next to the big cooler are going to difficult to get plugged back in if you unplug them, so I'd unplug the PSU side instead (leaving the motherboard plugged in) and route them from that end. If there's not enough room to slip them behind the motherboard at the top, you might have to run them over the portal next to the 24-pin plug (E: it looks like there's a portal at the top hidden in the shadows - that should work!). Regardless, I'd test out the computer to make sure everything is working before going through the hassle of rerouting cables, and rerouting isn't absolutely necessary if you don't want to bother! E: +1 to taking out the drive trays - as well as a cleaner look it'll improve airflow. EE: You don't even want to know what my old ATX builds used to look like 
Stickman fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Oct 7, 2019 |
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Oct 7, 2019 01:59
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surf rock posted:I have no idea how people do cable management. I just tried to zip tie stuff together as much as possible. I'm a little worried that some of the cables in the upper-left are so close to the CPU cooler heatsink. There's about a quarter-inch gap between them... If they touch in the future, will it catch fire or something?  If you want to be a neat freak, there are sections cut out of your case where there is rubber flaps that allow you to insert cables behind the motherboard tray and rout them between it and the opposite panel. Most cases will have some clearance for it without making the panel bulge out and yours might even have a dedicated channel. If you don't have Zip ties, I found sturdy dental floss works just as well. huhwhat posted:I might've been a mite hyperbolic about the situation but I still think potential buyers of Ryzen 3000 series + B450 motherboard combo should factor in the cost of flashing the mobo when making their purchasing decision, especially if they're not in the US. I went into Memory Express (Hamilton ON) and Canada Computers (Burlington ON) today to pick up some on sale stuff and spoke to staff at each location. Memory Express states that they are willing to do it for free if you buy the board and CPU from them. Now that staff member didn't seem the most knowledgable around so I am going to contact head office to get a second answer. Canada Computers *does* charge money. I was told that before it was a free-for-all depending on which store you were at but their head office has since set a company-wide price of $25 or $30 dollars. He wasn't sure since the service guy wasn't in on Sundays but he assures me it is no more than 30 bucks because they used to charge 50 before head office told them to be reasonable and set a standard rate.
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Oct 7, 2019 02:05
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Nice, thanks for finding out all that info. I was hoping to get the BIOS update done in downtown Montreal where there's a Canada Computers. The quotes I've gotten are all based in west island and I really don't want to travel all the way out there. $25-$30 seems fair for people who didn't buy the parts from the store but it still feels wrong to charge those who did.
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Oct 7, 2019 02:33
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huhwhat posted:Nice, thanks for finding out all that info. I was hoping to get the BIOS update done in downtown Montreal where there's a Canada Computers. The quotes I've gotten are all based in west island and I really don't want to travel all the way out there. Canada Computers and Memory Express are both pieces of poo poo and sorry substitutes for our REAL dad, NCIX. You know NCIX would be doing this for free. e: wait maybe they should have charged for this stuff
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Oct 7, 2019 02:38
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$30 for a bios update is crazy. You're within spitting distance of an X570 at that point anyway.
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Oct 7, 2019 02:41
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OK, I'm a big liar because I did end up hooking the thing up to a monitor and plugging it in to see if it would work. It didn't initially... but it gave an error message saying to plug in the power for the graphics card. Which I had done, but I guess not well enough, so I replugged those cables and then tried again...  GLORIOUS I enabled the XMP profile and that didn't crash the thing, but I'm not sure whether it actually changed given that the DRAM Status numbers stayed the same at 2133MHz. Do any of my numbers look weird? I fixed the date right after taking the photo.
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Oct 7, 2019 02:45
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surf rock posted:OK, I'm a big liar because I did end up hooking the thing up to a monitor and plugging it in to see if it would work. It won't give you the thicc XMP profile numbers in BIOS pretty sure. Gotta boot it to OS.
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Oct 7, 2019 02:46
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huhwhat posted:I might've been a mite hyperbolic about the situation but I still think potential buyers of Ryzen 3000 series + B450 motherboard combo should factor in the cost of flashing the mobo when making their purchasing decision, especially if they're not in the US. I'm just now realizing that I totally forgot the "MSi B450 itx boards don't have cpu-less flash" part when you posted your build on the last page  If you get a 200ge from some local store and can't return it, I'll buy it off you for cost (~$80 cad) + shipping (should be ~$8-10 to US minus the heatsink). It'd be good to have one around for these sorts of situations, plus I'm about to upgrade to an ITX B450 myself and that wouldn't be too far off US prices. Definitely don't order one from China - it usually takes several weeks to arrive! Mu Zeta posted:$30 for a bios update is crazy. You're within spitting distance of an X570 at that point anyway. Sadly, Canadian X570 prices are pretty high - it's like +$130 CAD for the cheapest itx X570. Stickman fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Oct 7, 2019 |
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Oct 7, 2019 02:46
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VelociBacon posted:Canada Computers and Memory Express are both pieces of poo poo and sorry substitutes for our REAL dad, NCIX. You know NCIX would be doing this for free. NEVER FORGET Mu Zeta posted:$30 for a bios update is crazy. You're within spitting distance of an X570 at that point anyway. Welcome to Canada. I'll report back on what Memory Express's policy is from Head Office once they get back to me. Sadly there are no other retailers. Until Memory Express came to Hamilton, Canada Computers essentially had monopolized the market in Central Canada.
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Oct 7, 2019 02:50
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VelociBacon posted:It won't give you the thicc XMP profile numbers in BIOS pretty sure. Gotta boot it to OS. Oh, OK. I'm going to install Windows 10 tomorrow, so I'll circle back to that. How do I update my bios version? It looks like I'm running the launch version (F3) and that there's now F6b out, so I'm pretty behind. Anything else like this that I should be looking at before installing Windows? I'm going to wait until after I've installed Windows to hook up my HDD since I don't want it to get labeled as the boot drive. Thanks!
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Oct 7, 2019 02:52
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