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Hots was profitable, just not profitable enough. Hots was growing, just not fast enough. The decision to kill it was based on the fact bean counters thought they could get a bigger return on their money elsewhere. In other words, if hots was a standalone product, we'd still have HGC.
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Oct 3, 2019 01:20
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Blizzrd spent something like 2 billion dollars last year. What percentage of that went to hots? Even 3% is 60 million dollars spent. We don't have any evidence whether or not hots was profitable, but how would hots have ever taken in eighty million dollars a year?
No Wave fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Oct 3, 2019 |
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Oct 3, 2019 01:28
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Erdricks posted:Hots was profitable, just not profitable enough. Hots was growing, just not fast enough. The decision to kill it was based on the fact bean counters thought they could get a bigger return on their money elsewhere. In other words, if hots was a standalone product, we'd still have HGC. Blizzard has truly unrealistic expectations on growth at this point in their field, and they also seem to expect that a given product line is not merely financially successful but at least as financially successful as their most successful products (i.e. WOW and OW). It's not the absolute worst way to run a company, but it is not one that makes sense to me.
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Oct 3, 2019 02:16
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I imagine the stumbling block for a lot of new players was that the hero prices were too drat high (both with gold and real cash) and that the new player rewards were lacking. That free hero bundle during the 2.0 launch was amazing... but that was only available for a month. They never offered something like that again. This game was slowly dying and it feels like they did nothing impactful to resuscitate it, beyond appealing to people who already played the game. Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Oct 3, 2019 |
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Oct 3, 2019 09:39
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Navaash posted:I don't agree with this completely. The only places where I would argue the ball was dropped were introducing those damnable lootboxes to pad Bobby K's savings account (I directly bought skins I liked on occasion then gave up putting money into the game after the lootboxes were introduced), and then dropping support for the pro leagues because maintaining them would have meant BK would have to buy one less yacht a year. Yeah I don't know, I'd hardly say the players were the main factor in the game dying. It's weird how often I see this argument about HotS actually. Especially when you consider that most people's impression of LoL (even from players of the game) is that it's teenage boys yelling at you for not playing perfectly. It has a reputation as being one of the most toxic games ever and it always demolished HotS in players/views and has been one of the most popular games of all time aside from maybe Fortnite now. Blizzard doesn't need more people defending them.
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Oct 3, 2019 15:44
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No Wave posted:Blizzrd spent something like 2 billion dollars last year. What percentage of that went to hots? Even 3% is 60 million dollars spent. We don't have any evidence whether or not hots was profitable, but how would hots have ever taken in eighty million dollars a year? HGC was very, very expensive compared to the rest of the game's costs. Player salaries, production expenses, events, travel, prize money, etc... Still, what I heard from marketing is that it was effective in driving microtransactions. The fans of the HGC scene were relatively small portion of the playerbase, but very engaged and willing to spend lots of money. So it was profitable, but only marginally and the growth/ROI wasn't fantastic. But I don't think Blizz wanted to look at HGC as an advertising expense. I think the execs were thinking, why spend money to make less money when you also have a number of super casual whales who will buy stuff because it has their fav blizz character on it; ROI makes it more profitable than the HGC crowd, so cut HGC and game development costs (bc super casual whales dont need fast development cycles) and use that money to make more profit elsewhere. I suppose it makes sense from a financial standpoint, but I don't think they anticipated how the decision would impact the playerbase as a whole and their customers trust in blizz as a company. Especially bad bc it was combined with the "dont you have phones moment" and the lack of anything interesting at blizzcon. It was an emperor has no clothes kind of moment, exposing just how disconnected blizz was from the playerbase and how they didn't understand just how much emotional attachment customers had with the product. IMO, that kind of brand loyalty is so incredibly valuable and I'm still shocked that they decided to nuke it. Blizz revenues are down 15% so far this year, although I guarantee you that wow classic is going to totally spike it in the other direction after the financials are released next quarter. In short, how blizz treated hots would be a great case study for a business school. What do you do with a product that has intensely loyal fans, but only makes a middling profit? Nuke your entire brand!
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Oct 3, 2019 15:59
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What’s a character everyone who plays blizzard games loves? How about an original character who’s a bounty hunter and like, canonically murdered everyone else
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Oct 3, 2019 19:08
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Erdricks posted:HGC was very, very expensive compared to the rest of the game's costs. Player salaries, production expenses, events, travel, prize money, etc... Still, what I heard from marketing is that it was effective in driving microtransactions. The fans of the HGC scene were relatively small portion of the playerbase, but very engaged and willing to spend lots of money. So it was profitable, but only marginally and the growth/ROI wasn't fantastic. But I don't think Blizz wanted to look at HGC as an advertising expense. I think the execs were thinking, why spend money to make less money when you also have a number of super casual whales who will buy stuff because it has their fav blizz character on it; ROI makes it more profitable than the HGC crowd, so cut HGC and game development costs (bc super casual whales dont need fast development cycles) and use that money to make more profit elsewhere. Yeah I'm totally seeing some of my behaviour in this. As a long time customer of Blizzard products I'm now way more reluctant to make big spendings on their other games I play, like Overwatch or Hearthstone for instance. Also, seen from the outside their current company culture seems to suck now and it shows.
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Oct 3, 2019 21:18
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Sassy Sasquatch posted:Yeah I'm totally seeing some of my behaviour in this. As a long time customer of Blizzard products I'm now way more reluctant to make big spendings on their other games I play, like Overwatch or Hearthstone for instance. Also, seen from the outside their current company culture seems to suck now and it shows. "Firing a shitload of people in the midst of high profits" is exactly the kind of behavior that gets you good stock prices and a bad future.
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Oct 3, 2019 21:24
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I'm just never going to spend a dime on blizzard games based on how they handled it. Canceling HGC is whatever, lying to everyone involved and saying that it was definitely going to happen all the way up until a few weeks before it started was disgusting. One of my friends actually made it through the crucible(qualify for HGC) and put a deposit down on an apartment to move, 100% based on the assurances of people at blizzard that the HGC was going to exist.
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Oct 3, 2019 21:28
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I still like playing hots even though it’s weird and hosed up
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Oct 3, 2019 21:40
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Nothing wrong with devs wanting to inject their own pet character into the game. I think its cute. Also Orphea and Qhira are FUN to play!
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Oct 3, 2019 22:22
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I do wonder if they’ve got anything left in the tank for Blizzcon. Every player has a few fan favorites they still want to see, but is there anybody left that would pop the entire crowd? Maybe a moot point for a dead game.
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Oct 3, 2019 22:28
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Deathwing.
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Oct 3, 2019 22:32
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Rexicon1 posted:I still like playing hots even though it’s weird and hosed up hell, 
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Oct 3, 2019 22:33
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HitTheTargets posted:I do wonder if they’ve got anything left in the tank for Blizzcon. Every player has a few fan favorites they still want to see, but is there anybody left that would pop the entire crowd? Maybe a moot point for a dead game. Some dumb new hero and bring back that 2.0 free hero welcome pack would do a lot I think. Just anything that says "hey this isn't a pain in rear end to get into!"
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Oct 3, 2019 23:06
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I'm just never going to spend a dime on blizzard games based on how they handled it. Canceling HGC is whatever, lying to everyone involved and saying that it was definitely going to happen all the way up until a few weeks before it started was disgusting. One of my friends actually made it through the crucible(qualify for HGC) and put a deposit down on an apartment to move, 100% based on the assurances of people at blizzard that the HGC was going to exist. To make it worse, the HGC team were being lied to by upper mgmt. So those people who were telling all the players that HGC was a go for 2019, actually thought it was a go. The staff were just as blindsided. But I mean, these are the same exec team that said you think you want that but you dont
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Oct 4, 2019 05:48
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Oh yeah. It's actually evil imo
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Oct 4, 2019 05:52
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Yeah they mentioned HGC 2019 in one of the trailers as something they were really hyped for. It wasn't until after Blizzcon that the Heroes team was told about the cancellation - after they had already talked about it several times.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:46
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Kith posted:Yeah they mentioned HGC 2019 in one of the trailers as something they were really hyped for. It wasn't until after Blizzcon that the Heroes team was told about the cancellation - after they had already talked about it several times. The ultimate irony, IIRC, is that they thought they were going to get a budget increase because their internal numbers were up YOY.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:08
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I wonder if they're going to follow up on their promise of new characters (I mean, aside from Qhira). I'd like some new, unorthodox heroes like Abathur, Vikings or.. Cho'Gall. Yes. Something to shake things up, you know? They have little to lose. Gimme Overmind or something. Get weird.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:40
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Make the Overmind like Abathur but completely stationary in base and it can do something weird like spawn zerg out of any fort (owned or not, different from Ragnaros.) Or a general type hero that commands units. Maybe Mannaroth finally or Archimonde.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:30
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I figured Mensk could have been a leader-minion type hero. Sons of Korhal era where he can order troopz to die for him. Give him weak versions of nova jimmy and blaze i guess.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:51
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There still hasn't been any equivalent of the shapechanging, support-magic-casting Druid class from Diablo II. I think it's the last of the heroes that hasn't been represented from the series (unless you want to draw distinctions between Sorceror, Sorceress and Wizard, or Rogue, Assassin and Demon Hunter, etc.). Diablo also offers the last Prime Evil, Baal Lord of Destruction, and the Lesser Evils Andariel, Duriel, and Belial. Finally there's supporting characters that could be promising, including Tal Rasha, Leah, Adria, Lazarus, Rakanishu and the Cow King. Kaal fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 21:18
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Assassin is way closer to monk than Demonhunter in terms of abilities imo. Maybe not flavor. Except not a support. I think it wouldn't really be a copy of any existing hero.
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Oct 5, 2019 00:58
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I want an SCV builder hero like Probius he should be called Stevie the SCV
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Oct 5, 2019 03:08
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What would he do? Blaze already makes bunkers. Anti air turret would only counter uhh Jimmy and Morales? Maybe it could he a half a hero like Murky and pair with Hammer?
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Oct 5, 2019 17:41
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he builds things 
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Oct 5, 2019 17:46
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Charles Bukowski posted:What would he do? Blaze already makes bunkers. Anti air turret would only counter uhh Jimmy and Morales? Maybe it could he a half a hero like Murky and pair with Hammer? There's a few different ideas that have been floated before. Mining resources from killing creeps or attacking buildings. Repairing heroes or structures using those resources. Constructing and upgrading different buildings like Barracks (spawns creeps), Missile Turrets (places fort turrets), Refineries (provides XP or hero resources), or Bunkers (defends heroes). Heroic abilities might include Planetary Fortress upgrades for Forts/Keeps, or upgrading the SCV itself into a Warhound combat unit with anti-armor Haywire missiles. Basically making a character that treats HOTS like a strategy game rather than a MOBA. Some sort of cross between Abathur, Zagara, TLV, Gazlowe, and Probius. But the issue is largely that these sorts of specialist characters have been methodically reformed / made obsolete to bring them more in line with traditional MOBA gameplay. Holding the line and maintaining lane pressure just isn't that important any more, particularly since any character can just show up to collect XP when enemy creeps walk into a fort. It used to be that a good specialist could single-handedly push or defend a lane, but that's just no longer the case. An SCV hero would either represent a complete walk-back of those principles, or probably wouldn't seem like an SCV. Kaal fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Oct 5, 2019 |
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Oct 5, 2019 18:20
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The closest thing that we'll get to an SCV hero will probably be Rory Swann. He's basically the cross between an SCV and a Marauder, so he could smoothly represent both without running into being too limited by either framework.
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Oct 5, 2019 22:11
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I want an SCV hero that gets empowered every time an ally wanders off into mid on their own and gets eaten by Butch.
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Oct 7, 2019 03:59
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Moola posted:Most of the heroes were more fun to play like 2 years ago and that sucks Kharazim  doverhog posted:How did Butcher use to work? He still had the meat but no quest? I think Butcher was the most well designed back in like 2015-2016 when his quest stacks only went up to 25 (35 talented) and he lost basically all his stacks when he died. This meant that you had to play carefully, but you didn't have to spend half the game farming stacks like you do now. He wasn't completely useless when he had 0 stacks either, you just couldn't solo kill stuff with him. Basically all his reworks have made him worse both conceptually and power-wise. Minorkos fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Oct 7, 2019 |
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Oct 7, 2019 12:39
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Moola posted:Most of the heroes were more fun to play like 2 years ago and that sucks Most of the heroes were more fun to play before the overwatch heroes were released
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Oct 7, 2019 12:45
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I would like a SCV hero that really went all in on the farm crystals, build barracks, upgrade minions, upgrade core, etc. but I imagine that would be hard to balance.
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Oct 7, 2019 12:48
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doverhog posted:I would like a SCV hero that really went all in on the farm crystals, build barracks, upgrade minions, upgrade core, etc. but I imagine that would be hard to balance. Same I'd like a hero that is just 100% about buffing minions and building things
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Oct 7, 2019 18:05
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Abathur's the closest we're going to get to that.
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Oct 7, 2019 18:32
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They should rework Raynor again and give him the ability to turn into a ranged minion. But he still does his regular damage/abilities, so you could like hide in a wave and be plinking away at towers and the enemies wouldn't know.
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Oct 7, 2019 18:37
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yr new gurlfrand! posted:Most of the heroes were more fun to play before the overwatch heroes were released With the very rare exception of when a Genji zips into an ult that you meant for someone else and gets himself obliterated, yes. That incredibly rare occurrence is the only joy those characters bring to the game
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Oct 7, 2019 22:58
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Ana is the most fun healer. Don't lump her in with the others.
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Oct 7, 2019 23:20
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I like D.Va, and it's not like she is OP or anything?
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Oct 8, 2019 00:12
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