[Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Lightning Knight posted:

no gently caress you, there�s already one typo

he does it better, but he seems to be off shift

# ? Oct 7, 2019 05:10

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# ? May 26, 2024 13:55

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

GreyjoyBastard posted:

bernard "stealth imperialist" sanders has condemned the PRC's policies in its liberated territories:

https://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-china/

this sucks lol

# ? Oct 7, 2019 05:11

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

R. Guyovich posted:

this sucks lol

it does seem to be functionally a bad wikipedia page, if that's your complaint, but it does have _{too many} citations on Bernie statements and bills

# ? Oct 7, 2019 05:16

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

GreyjoyBastard posted:

it does seem to be functionally a bad wikipedia page, if that's your complaint, but it does have _{too many} citations on Bernie statements and bills

it comes to the same conclusions as trump meaning bernie doesn't think trade war is a bad idea he just wants to do it smarter

and its response to china's military buildup isn't the incredibly obvious thing, which is: maybe stop building up the us military so other countries don't feel the need to expand their own

# ? Oct 7, 2019 05:19

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

R. Guyovich posted:

doesn't think ~~trade~~ war is a bad idea he just wants to do it smarter

John Kerry rides again

# ? Oct 7, 2019 05:21

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

R. Guyovich posted:

it comes to the same conclusions as trump meaning bernie doesn't think trade war is a bad idea he just wants to do it smarter

and its response to china's military buildup isn't the incredibly obvious thing, which is: maybe stop building up the us military so other countries don't feel the need to expand their own

sweet, you're not actually objecting to its veracity, that saves me some effort

# ? Oct 7, 2019 05:32

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

GreyjoyBastard posted:

sweet, you're not actually objecting to its veracity, that saves me some effort

it's a policy position page, by its very nature full of assertions rather than cold hard facts. what the gently caress are you talking about "veracity" for lol

# ? Oct 7, 2019 05:36

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

but i'm going to spend maybe five minutes of heroic googling anyway

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1123743871375151104

https://www.axios.com/2020-democrats-china-uighur-muslims-camps-ad7e2fc1-ac3f-4481-b3c5-4424dda5ba7c.html

quote:

Over the last week, Axios asked the top 2020 Democratic candidates how they would address the situation in Xinjiang if elected.

Specifically, would they support putting companies that build the Uighur detention camps and their surveillance system on the Commerce Departments' Entity List? And would they use the Global Magnitsky Act to sanction the people running the camps?
State of play:

Would support, at a minimum, both measures: Former VP Joe Biden; Sen. Bernie Sanders and Cory Booker; South Bend, Indiana Mayor Pete Buttigieg; and former HUD Secretary Juli�n Castro.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/14/here-is-how-democratic-2020-contenders-will-negotiate-trade-with-china.html

quote:

What do you think is the best approach to addressing China�s practices with regard to intellectual property theft, technology transfer, industrial subsidies and other matters in which the two countries are at odds? Is it through multinational organizations like the World Trade Organization and the United Nations? Will you take any action unilaterally? If so, what action?

Sanders: It is in the interests of the United States to work to strengthen institutions like the WTO and the UN rather than trying to go it alone. American concerns about China�s technology practices are shared in Europe and across the Asia-Pacific. We can place far more pressure on China to change its policies if we work together with the broader international community and the other developed economies. International institutions also offer China a template for reforming its own internal intellectual property and industrial practices.

quote:

Should a trade deal with China address human rights issues? If not, will your administration address human rights in China and, if so, how?

Sanders: Yes. Labor protections are very weak in China, and the rights of workers are an essential component of human rights. The Trump administration has proven itself indifferent to labor rights, and apparently would prefer that American workers are reduced to the position of Chinese workers, rather than that labor everywhere enjoy basic protections and strong standard of living. The Trump administration has also done nothing to pressure China over its abhorrent treatment of the Uighur and Tibetan peoples. Future trade negotiations should, for example, target American corporations that contribute surveillance technologies that enable China�s authoritarian practices.

quote:

What do you see in America�s current policy approach to China that is working? What is the single most important thing you will change? Who will benefit from your plan and how?

Sanders: While China has adopted some better practices, it still has a long way to go. The Trump administration is correct to put pressure on China to reform its practices, and I hope that some good comes from current trade negotiations. The economic relationship between the United States and China has been the engine of global growth for the past 25 years, and we should acknowledge that in China it has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. In both China and the United States, however, the benefits of this growth have not been shared equally, and have accrued in a very disproportionate way to the very wealthiest. The problem is that the Trump administration is mainly interested in addressing some of the imbalances between America and China overall, when it also needs to address basic drivers of economic inequality. The future of this relationship requires both a degree of pressure on China, and reform of the economy inside the United States itself.

R. Guyovich posted:

it's a policy position page, by its very nature full of assertions rather than cold hard facts. what the gently caress are you talking about "veracity" for lol

when you initially objected i'd just been reviewing it and realized it wasn't actually a Bernie Campaign Thing, it was a Rando Bernie Supporter thing where they try to summarize his policy positions, and i'd spent a pretty miniscule amount of time checking its assertions about his policies

vvv

R. Guyovich posted:

yes, those are bernie sanders' stated positions on these questions. i'm saying the stated positions suck

wasn't sure! your one-liner was unclear!

Goatse James Bond has issued a correction as of 05:41 on Oct 7, 2019

# ? Oct 7, 2019 05:38

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

GreyjoyBastard posted:

when you initially objected i'd just been reviewing it and realized it wasn't actually a Bernie Campaign Thing, it was a Rando Bernie Supporter thing, and i'd spent a pretty miniscule amount of time checking its assertions

yes, those are bernie sanders' stated positions on these questions. i'm saying the stated positions suck

# ? Oct 7, 2019 05:40

GoutPatrol: Oct 17, 2009; *Stupid Babby*

R. Guyovich posted:

it comes to the same conclusions as trump meaning bernie doesn't think trade war is a bad idea he just wants to do it smarter

and its response to china's military buildup isn't the incredibly obvious thing, which is: maybe stop building up the us military so other countries don't feel the need to expand their own

what you're saying is horseshoe theory is real vis a vis trump and bernie

the libs were right

# ? Oct 7, 2019 05:57

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

GoutPatrol posted:

what you're saying is horseshoe theory is real vis a vis trump and bernie

the libs were right

almost like there is a massive bipartisan consensus on which countries deserve to be targeted by economic and covert warfare :thunk:

# ? Oct 7, 2019 06:03

Lightning Knight: Feb 24, 2012; Pray for Answer

the US should sanction companies that make stuff for Chinese re-education camps and in turn China should sanction companies that make stuff for American prisons and concentration camps at the border, maybe we can achieve prison abolition after all.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 06:10

uncop: Oct 23, 2010

gently caress, thanks for the reminder how messed up the kind of prison infrastructure that's in Xinjiang really gets. It's so easy to ignore what you're deliberately prevented from seeing. The dude who filmed that Florida prison documentary with his gadget eyeglasses and cell phone camera inside a hollowed out Bible was a hero.

Generally speaking about prisons, security reasons clearly aren't a good enough excuse to restrict the flow of information out and allow a law free zone to form whenever the administration likes. It's that bullshit where one escaped convict is worth 100 abused convicts, they aren't fully people anymore, certainly not like the guards.

And the default form of a prison guard is clearly to be a piece of poo poo on par with cops, given how rare whistleblowing events are regardless of how dire conditions are. It sounds like China is producing a population segment that would enthusiastically cheer for terrorists so long as they handled their support base smartly rather than dogmatically.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 06:22

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

State violence is inherent to the existence of the state, even a proletarian one. Since anarchism doesn't work, the only way to abolish the state altogether is building Communism through Leninism. Thus the paradox of Hong Kong - the cops ARE bastards, but the true anti-cop position is to support the Communist Party and the PRC.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 06:25

Xelkelvos: Dec 19, 2012

The typos are multiplying it seems.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 06:43

Xelkelvos: Dec 19, 2012

R. Guyovich posted:

almost like there is a massive bipartisan consensus on which countries deserve to be targeted by economic and covert warfare

Glad you can finally come around on China needing to be constrained economically and covertly

# ? Oct 7, 2019 06:44

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

this thread is slowly becoming one of those seventies radical terrorist cells where are all the members are actually government spies and the one guy theyre trying to pin all the crimes on ditches half the meetings to smoke weed instead

# ? Oct 7, 2019 06:55

uncop: Oct 23, 2010

Mantis42 posted:

State violence is inherent to the existence of the state, even a proletarian one. Since anarchism doesn't work, the only way to abolish the state altogether is building Communism through Leninism. Thus the paradox of Hong Kong - the cops ARE bastards, but the true anti-cop position is to support the Communist Party and the PRC.

Pls don't typopost. In case you're actually serious, ease it on the substitutionism and consider the difference in ends and suitable means between proletarian violence and bourgeois violence. Judge the cocrete violence PRC engages in against that. As Lenin says, there is no such thing as abstract truth, the truth is always concrete.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 06:57

sincx: Jul 13, 2012; furiously masturbating to anime titties

sincx has issued a correction as of 05:29 on Mar 23, 2021

# ? Oct 7, 2019 06:57

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

uncop posted:

gently caress, thanks for the reminder how messed up the kind of prison infrastructure that's in Xinjiang really gets. It's so easy to ignore what you're deliberately prevented from seeing. The dude who filmed that Florida prison documentary with his gadget eyeglasses and cell phone camera inside a hollowed out Bible was a hero.

Generally speaking about prisons, security reasons clearly aren't a good enough excuse to restrict the flow of information out and allow a law free zone to form whenever the administration likes. It's that bullshit where one escaped convict is worth 100 abused convicts, they aren't fully people anymore, certainly not like the guards.

And the default form of a prison guard is clearly to be a piece of poo poo on par with cops, given how rare whistleblowing events are regardless of how dire conditions are. It sounds like China is producing a population segment that would enthusiastically cheer for terrorists so long as they handled their support base smartly rather than dogmatically.

rushan abbas is a former guantanamo employee. why we're taking her word or the washington post's about this when that very same paper assigns pinocchios to bernie sanders' claims about the shooting of unarmed black children by police (because mike brown had a toy gun!!!!) is beyond me

# ? Oct 7, 2019 07:54

Typo: Aug 19, 2009; Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

R. Guyovich posted:

rushan abbas is a former guantanamo employee. why we're taking her word or the washington post's about this when that very same paper assigns pinocchios to bernie sanders' claims about the shooting of unarmed black children by police (because mike brown had a toy gun!!!!) is beyond me

it really betrays how much liberals have developed Stockholm syndrome to capitalism and US police (cuz they are racists who silently celebrate every time a policeman shoots a black) that they can't even imagine a concentration camp that's ran humanely and without sexual abuses

bernie really needs to show his left-wing credentials by denouncing the dipshits at washington post for outright imperialist propaganda meant to stir up pro-war feelings among american people against socialist china so they give more money to military-industrial complex to bomb innocent kids

Typo has issued a correction as of 08:20 on Oct 7, 2019

# ? Oct 7, 2019 08:17

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

funny story i was out and about in busan today and the insane fringe right wing of south korean politics was handing out newsletters demanding park geun hye be released from prison and restored to power and what should i find above the fold except a prominent crying pepe holding a green bamboo stick

all of a sudden it seems kind of unlikely to me that hong kong protestors are unaware of pepes political implications especially considering that something like half their outreach is obviously directed toward white people

# ? Oct 7, 2019 08:21

uncop: Oct 23, 2010

R. Guyovich posted:

rushan abbas is a former guantanamo employee. why we're taking her word or the washington post's about this when that very same paper assigns pinocchios to bernie sanders' claims about the shooting of unarmed black children by police (because mike brown had a toy gun!!!!) is beyond me

Is there a name for the principle where you take the least exceptional claims as the default? Like, I didn't announce full faith in the contents of that article, because yes, it was obvious propaganda that intended for people to take rumors as generalizable truth.

It doesn't seem tasteful in any fashion to try to interrogate truthful accusations from lies and embellishments without any actual insight into the system, so I'd prefer people to look at what has happened inside similar systems and take that as their basis of believability, since China has not exactly demonstrated some kind of socialist exceptionalism in it treatment of people. Close to Lightning Knight's sentiment, except I wouldn't take ethnic cleansing facilies as the default point of comparison, but regular prison systems with ethnic/racial tensions between the inmates and guards, lax oversight on what the guards decide to do and a default response of trying to sweep facts that would embarrass the administration under the mattress.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 08:24

Typo: Aug 19, 2009; Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

uncop posted:

Is there a name for the principle where you take the least exceptional claims as the default? Like, I didn't announce full faith in the contents of that article, because yes, it was obvious propaganda that intended for people to take rumors as generalizable truth.

It doesn't seem tasteful in any fashion to try to interrogate truthful accusations from lies and embellishments without any actual insight into the system, so I'd prefer people to look at what has happened inside similar systems and take that as their basis of believability, since China has not exactly demonstrated some kind of socialist exceptionalism in it treatment of people. Close to Lightning Knight's sentiment, except I wouldn't take ethnic cleansing facilies as the default point of comparison, but regular prison systems with ethnic/racial tensions between the inmates and guards, lax oversight on what the guards decide to do and a default response of trying to sweep facts that would embarrass the administration under the mattress.

look at sweden: it's only a social democracy and its prisons are 100x more humane than Us prisons and rapes are rare. China, as a full-fledged Socialist state much more left-wing than social democracy which is still controlled by capitalists, have even better conditions in their concentration camps than Swedish prisons. The problem with your view is that your "default" is the inhumane barbaric US prison system which makes your mind go "better things aren't possible". Not saying China is perfect but your default view shouldn't instantly be "concentration camps must have rapes in them"

# ? Oct 7, 2019 08:27

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

uncop posted:

Is there a name for the principle where you take the least exceptional claims as the default? Like, I didn't announce full faith in the contents of that article, because yes, it was obvious propaganda that intended for people to take rumors as generalizable truth.

i wanted to take this rushan abbas persons word for it but i got kind of suspicious when a google search either yielded obvious puff pieces about how great she is or articles about famed indian television and game show host roshan abbas

oh yeah and also she works as a consultant for some kind of middle east africa business development initiative and her bio brags about all the great collaborating shes done with republicans over the years somehow she doesnt strike me as an ethically motivated bystander

# ? Oct 7, 2019 08:38

Typo: Aug 19, 2009; Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

Some Guy TT posted:

i wanted to take this rushan abbas persons word for it but i got kind of suspicious when a google search either yielded obvious puff pieces about how great she is or articles about famed indian television and game show host roshan abbas

oh yeah and also she works as a consultant for some kind of middle east africa business development initiative and her bio brags about all the great collaborating shes done with republicans over the years somehow she doesnt strike me as an ethically motivated bystander

oh look some nazi lady made a bunch of women make false rape accusations against concentration camp guards to make china look bad and liberal loving eat it up cuz they are "woke" (they would absolutely look down and cross the street if they ran into a uighur irl)

big surprise huh

# ? Oct 7, 2019 08:41

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Some Guy TT posted:

funny story i was out and about in busan today and the insane fringe right wing of south korean politics was handing out newsletters demanding park geun hye be released from prison and restored to power and what should i find above the fold except a prominent crying pepe holding a green bamboo stick

all of a sudden it seems kind of unlikely to me that hong kong protestors are unaware of pepes political implications especially considering that something like half their outreach is obviously directed toward white people

Yeah, all the references to Western liberal revolutions are pretty hamfisted. Sorry folks, but Westerners only care about money. A fact the Pod Save man found out too late.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 08:45

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

quote:

Key Point: It starts with the Philippines

The United States and the Philippines have been discussing whether the Filipino military should buy the High-Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS), a multiple rocket launcher used by the United States and other nations, according to the South China Morning Post.

�If deployed, the long-range, precision-guided rockets fired by the system would be able to strike Chinese man-made islands on reefs in the Spratly chain,� the newspaper said. HIMARS is a lighter, more mobile six-barreled version of the U.S. Army�s M270 multiple rocket launch system (MLRS). It can shoot rockets out to 70 kilometers (43 miles) and GPS-guided ballistic missiles out to 300 kilometers (186 miles).

However, funding from the cash-strapped Philippines is a hurdle. �The two sides have been unable to reach a deal because HIMARS could be too expensive for Manila given its tight defense budget,� said the newspaper.

Exactly how much does HIMARS cost? Manufacturer Lockheed Martin refused to give cost estimates, instead referring queries to the U.S. Army�s Aviation and Missile Command, which didn�t respond to questions from TNI. The cost of HIMARS is split between the launcher itself and separate contracts for various munitions including guided and unguided rockets, the longer-range Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) missiles, and weapons under development such as extended-range rockets and the Precision Strike Missile.

Some estimates put the cost of a HIMARS guided rocket at $100,000 to $200,000 apiece, or an ATACMS at more than $700,000 apiece. Another clue is that Poland recently signed a $414 million contract for eighteen launchers plus support and training. With the 2019 Philippines defense budget at only $3.4 billion, a big HIMARS purchase would be a strain.

Yet HIMARS is still a cheaper option than, say, a $1.4 million Tomahawk cruise missile. And the Philippines had already had a taste of HIMARS. The weapon was deployed there by U.S. Marines in 2016 during the joint U.S.-Philippines Balikatan exercises. Collin Koh Swee Lean, a Singaporean defense analyst, told the South China Morning Post that �there were two possible locations for the system: Palawan province in the Philippines and Thitu, or Zhongye in Chinese�the largest island held by Manila in the disputed Spratly chain. From Palawan, HIMARS could launch a missile at its maximum range to hit China�s man-made island at Mischief Reef, Koh said. But Thitu island would also be vulnerable to PLA air and missile strikes because it is only about 22 kilometers (14 miles) from China-occupied Subi Reef, and within striking range of missiles originating from the Paracel Islands and Hainan.�

The cheaper price tag of HIMARS compared to other weapons does make it attractive. �The idea of purchasing HIMARS systems may be one of the few viable options in response to China's artificial islands and continuing and increasingly provocative actions in the SCS [South China Sea],� says Jay Batongbacal, director of the Philippines-based Institute for Maritime Affairs and Law of the Sea.

Yet Batongbacal does not see a sale any time soon. �The Philippines is probably not yet in a position to make a purchase,� he told The National Interest. �It is also not likely to arm its own possessions significantly, for fear of Chinese reaction.�

American experts agree. �Absent an abrupt change in foreign policy outlook by President Duterte, it is unlikely the Philippines would acquire HIMARS in the near future,� says Brian Harding, an Asian security expert at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies. �In addition to the price tag, Duterte would likely find HIMARS to be too provocative vis-�-vis China.�

But Harding believes this could change. �Just as Duterte has dramatically reoriented Philippine foreign policy, there could again be an abrupt change with a new president in 2022. A new president could also seek to accelerate the implementation of the U.S.-Philippines Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement, which could potentially provide an avenue for the United States to deploy systems such as HIMARS in the Philippines.�

Indeed, perhaps the more interesting possibility isn�t Philippines-owned rockets, but American-operated rockets on Philippines soil. �I think observers shouldn�t just think about capabilities that the Philippines could acquire on its own,� Harding warns. �EDCA provides a vehicle for the United States to deploy its own platforms on a rotational basis, which could be a way to potentially move high-end capabilities into the region, if agreed to by leaders.�

love too "solve" a problem via military escalation

# ? Oct 7, 2019 09:11

uncop: Oct 23, 2010

It is kind of funny how all these people express disbelief at how the Muslim world doesn't express outrage over whatever happens in China and belief that it must be going to happen any day now. Like, could those concerned have determined that China's policies don't compare unfavorably to their own. Imagine expecting everyone to be regime-change hypocrites out to just, I don't know, extend their brand of Islam's political reach in the world.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 09:13

tino: Jun 4, 2018; by Smythe

Jesus 34 new posts. None of you guys sleep in US time zones?

I think some of you guys are reading the Beinie policy page wrong. He would be much friendlier to China in trade deals.
* Beinie understands the main cause of the trade tension is driven by the wealth distribution inside the US. It's a domestic issue nothing to do with China
* Bernie is not linking trade to security issues.

And China can give Bernie help in developing green new tech within US.

Also China can deal on the human right issue, China pretty much can deal with any issue except made in China 2025 and other sovereign issues.

But I don't expect a Bernie President. The US's right swing drive has no reached its end in 2020 yet IMO. The more likely scenario is orange turd reach a deal with China next year and squeeze in a reelection win.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 10:19

D.Ork Bimboolean: Aug 26, 2016

I'm putting my hopes and dreams into this guy

# ? Oct 7, 2019 13:15

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

# ? Oct 7, 2019 13:26

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

the main part of this i find funny is that apparently daryl moley is such an idiot he didnt anticipate this incredibly predictable reaction its hard to tell whether its because he didnt understand twitter or china or his own business interests or some combination of all three

# ? Oct 7, 2019 13:46

tino: Jun 4, 2018; by Smythe

Net's owner is Chinese? I had no idea, and I had been to a Net corporate box.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 13:47

fits my needs: Jan 1, 2011; Grimey Drawer

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1181076834190053377?s=20

the purveyor of fake news strikes again

# ? Oct 7, 2019 14:57

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

poo poo is pretty badass

https://twitter.com/CerveauxNon/status/1180893527577894915?s=19

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:27

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

https://twitter.com/LLW902/status/1181175860260458496?s=19

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:36

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

"We need to stop exporting movies and entertainment to China"

lmao yeah, this is what will bring down the CCP

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:47

Soy Division: Aug 12, 2004

Kassad posted:

"We need to stop exporting movies and entertainment to China"

lmao yeah, this is what will bring down the CCP

I think he wants to do that because he�s one of those people who thinks China controls all of Hollywood�s output

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:58

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# ? May 26, 2024 13:55

Optimus Subprime: Mar 26, 2005; Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?

tino posted:

Net's owner is Chinese? I had no idea, and I had been to a Net corporate box.

he just bought out the team from the Russian ogligarch who owned them

# ? Oct 7, 2019 16:02

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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