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LesterGroans posted:Cultural phenomenons existed in 1981 They should’ve retconned Joker into being the “where’s the beef” lady
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Oct 7, 2019 13:13
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:They should’ve retconned Joker into being the “where’s the beef” lady "Help! Society has fallen and it can't get up!"
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Oct 7, 2019 13:17
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Scattered thoughts: He also made that GG Allin documentary, which makes me wonder how much influence he had on this?
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Oct 7, 2019 13:18
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Worldwide, $234 million on it's opening weekend. That is really surprising.
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Oct 7, 2019 13:31
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LesterGroans posted:Cultural phenomenons existed in 1981 Uncle Boogeyman posted:They should’ve retconned Joker into being the “where’s the beef” lady Why is "where's the beef" immediately what I thought of and not "nanu nanu" or whatever. jet sanchEz posted:Worldwide, $234 million on it's opening weekend. That is really surprising. Not remotely surprising, this has got to be one of the most successful ad campaigns in years.
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Oct 7, 2019 14:35
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I think people saying the clown revolution was unrealistic is looking at it wrong. Don't assume everything was hunky dory before the clown stuff and it just went zero to sixty just from the joker. It makes way more sense if you get that the riots were coming either way, that the trash strike and super rats and disgusting conditions and the richest man in the city who was responsible for it all telling you he simply needed to be given more power and he could fix it had meant that at some point there was going to be a riot. Then a high profile murder of a guy that in some nonspecific way the public recognized as a bad guy involved in how bad everything was enough to be a rallying point and get everyone to wear a mask, which helped the protests get way more out of control. Like it doesn't feel like without the murder there wouldn't have been violent protests, just that the murders changed the trajectory from flip a few cars and chant some slogans to like, burn half the city and murder the waynes. Like imagine in the real world if someone wearing a spiderman mask killed steven bannon or Martin Shkreli or something and got away with it. Spiderman masks would instantly show up at protests after that. If there was already a mass protest going on a few days later, it absolutely could end up being the match to spark further violence.
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Oct 7, 2019 14:41
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It’s definitely made very clear that this Joker didn’t incite any riots or protests so much as he killed the guys on the train and as such completely lucked into becoming the face of the movement. He even admits on the Murray show that he doesn’t pay attention to any of that and he just killed them because he didn’t like them. I’m also pretty sure it’s intentional that when he finally gets his big spotlight, he doesn’t have anything insightful to say and his complaints sum up to “people are so rude.”
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Oct 7, 2019 15:11
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Pirate Jet posted:It’s definitely made very clear that this Joker didn’t incite any riots or protests so much as he killed the guys on the train and as such completely lucked into becoming the face of the movement. He even admits on the Murray show that he doesn’t pay attention to any of that and he just killed them because he didn’t like them. Yeah, it's also very intentional that the movie is never quite clear exactly who the three guys are. Just they worked for wayne. Where we can think of a million real like douchebags that the public would cheer if a vigilante killed, but what exactly they were was not important to the joker so it's not important to the movie.
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Oct 7, 2019 15:30
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Did Todd Phillips know about Bernie goetz or is this just a big coincidence
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Oct 7, 2019 15:44
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Pogo was John Wayne Gacy's clown name. Overall I enjoyed it, great acting but felt the third act was kind of weak.
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Oct 7, 2019 15:51
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Pirate Jet posted:It’s definitely made very clear that this Joker didn’t incite any riots or protests so much as he killed the guys on the train and as such completely lucked into becoming the face of the movement. He even admits on the Murray show that he doesn’t pay attention to any of that and he just killed them because he didn’t like them. I think it's interesting that he was a dude with mental health problems defending himself from marauders.
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Oct 7, 2019 15:54
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How did it even get out that a clown did it? Did that woman snitch on him? He potentially saved her from getting raped! And besides, the first two guys were self-defense. It was only murder when he shot the guy fleeing. Oh and, he totally killed the shrink at the end, right?
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Oct 7, 2019 16:03
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:How did it even get out that a clown did it? Did that woman snitch on him? He potentially saved her from getting raped! And besides, the first two guys were self-defense. It was only murder when he shot the guy fleeing. Presumably given that she was the last person aside from Arthur to see them alive, it was less "snitch" and more "the police are going to think I did this if I don't mention that weird clown"
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Oct 7, 2019 16:07
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:How did it even get out that a clown did it? Did that woman snitch on him? He potentially saved her from getting raped! And besides, the first two guys were self-defense. It was only murder when he shot the guy fleeing. No he just walked through a puddle of red paint on the way out of her office then an orderly decided to chase him down the hallway.
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Oct 7, 2019 17:22
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I guess in my own head forecasting things that "could" happen... I sort of imagined a possible future where whenever Joker makes an inevitable escape from Arkham there is still a large portion of the city who hero-worship him. I imagine this amuses him still and the source of a great joke would be turning his violence on them since he's so far gone by that point, with the public then realising he really was just a monster all along. Regarding people who say that he hasn't got the smarts and cunning to be the Joker... I get that, which could just be simply that it's a different take on the character again - he might just not be the type who is 10 steps ahead of everyone all the time. But on the other hand I figured that he has the potential to be a whole lot smarter and more cunning than what we see in the movie. Right from the start with the uncontrollable laughing it seemed like the Joker within Arthur was dying to get out. Arthur is socially nervous and hesitant, whereas when we get flashes of him as Joker he's dancing confidently ... how much calmer and confidently he speaks to Murray is another example. That's a guy Arthur idolises and Arthur would be a nervous mess talking to his idol. But Joker was calm and in control. So I figure while this may not be the super smart version we are used to, I think once he shakes Arthur for good and is thinking "clearer" he would come across as a much craftier villain when he's no longer being held back.
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Oct 7, 2019 17:35
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mastershakeman posted:Did Todd Phillips know about Bernie goetz or is this just a big coincidence It seems fairly obvious that the train scene is referencing Goetz to some extent or another.
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Oct 7, 2019 17:38
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:Did that woman snitch on him? He potentially saved her from getting raped! I mean yeah, but all they did so far was throw food at her. A real rear end in a top hat thing to do, but maybe not something she's gonna cover for a guy who brutally executed them. Plus cameras on the subway platform.
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Oct 7, 2019 17:47
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:It's easy to dismiss this as a "dumb person's idea of a smart movie" but I don't think that's really fair. Everything it does, it does competently, if not exactly original or inspired. The cinematography is good. The visual style and aesthetics are great, even if they're borrowed or an homage to Taxi Driver. Phoenix is excellent and extremely creepy and believable as the Joker. There's more than a handful of extremely effective and awesome scenes. It's also great to have a comic book film that gives the scenes room to breathe, has no dumb undermining quips, and is dark and disturbing without feeling forced grimdark, or whatever. The only other film I've seen that I feel similarly toward would be Logan. This isn’t how 99% of “mentally ill” people go Owlofcreamcheese posted:I think people saying the clown revolution was unrealistic is looking at it wrong. Don't assume everything was hunky dory before the clown stuff and it just went zero to sixty just from the joker. This isn’t how 99% of protests go AdmiralViscen fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Oct 7, 2019 |
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Oct 7, 2019 17:58
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:The multiple "midget" jokes are pretty much the only ones aside from Arthur's intentionally bad ones. They got chuckles from my audience but it just seemed like crappy punching-down humor. Then there was the sliding door bit, which was just tonally bizarre. I thought those jokes were a really good metric of what's wrong with the people sitting right next to you
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Oct 7, 2019 17:58
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AdmiralViscen posted:This isn’t how 99% of protests go Are you saying protests never have costuming or that protests never turn into violence? Because both of those things have happened repeatedly in history.
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Oct 7, 2019 18:35
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I just realized that the ending of this movie is literally just the ending from the novel Fight Club, the more I think about this movie the less I like it.fatherboxx posted:I think this got to be among the most stupid things said by Felix. Your reaction to someone saying that loneliness is a problem a lot of people struggle with because it's not something that is talked about or addressed properly being to dismiss them and tell them that it's really not a big deal and to man up because there are bigger problems out there is actually a pretty great illustration of how right he is. Owlofcreamcheese posted:I think people saying the clown revolution was unrealistic is looking at it wrong. Don't assume everything was hunky dory before the clown stuff and it just went zero to sixty just from the joker. Well there is the wrinkle that using clowns as a symbol of rebellion against the status quo is literally a thing that is happening right now, albeit it's something neo-nazis are doing to epically troll the normies. And it's asinine and failed horribly no matter how many Pepes in clown makeup they draw and how.many dudes in sweaty greasepaint march in straight pride parades. The only headway it's ever made is well-meaning but oblivious centrists scolding people for accusing such a common piece of iconography of being a dogwhistle, akin to the way that they were scoffing at the idea of the OK symbol being used by Nazis up to and including mass murderers flashing it in their court appearances.
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Oct 7, 2019 18:36
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Are you saying protests never have costuming or that protests never turn into violence? Because both of those things have happened repeatedly in history. I think I explicitly did not say “never”
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Oct 7, 2019 18:53
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I would like this movie so much more if I hadn't seen King of Comedy and Taxi Driver (and obviously really enjoyed both). It's also hard to poo poo all over it because he really did give an all-in performance and was legit "good" for what this film is, and is acting circles around everyone else. I blame the material because DeNiro can still act when he wants and Frances Conroy played a much better and nuanced version of this character on Six Feet Under. I still don't think it has a message or point to it whatsoever. If it just wants to live in the bleak character study category there are about a thousand films I'd choose over this one. Some of those shots are really beautiful though (things like his little behind the curtain posturing)..The visuals far outweigh the story but not in a gimmicky way which is neat.
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Oct 7, 2019 18:59
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So other than probably being Ratman, since there's the plague of super huge rats and one ran by in the alley, is Bruce going to go full fash? Hell, batman fights crime and robbers because a robber killed his family. In this world his first and only mission might just be to kill the poor.
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Oct 7, 2019 19:17
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I want everyone who thinks this thing is a masterpiece for its dark portrayal of an antihero to watch man bites dog.
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Oct 7, 2019 19:25
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zer0spunk posted:I want everyone who thinks this thing is a masterpiece for its dark portrayal of an antihero to watch man bites dog. don't even have to go back that far, 3 From Hell came out like a month ago
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Oct 7, 2019 19:32
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:don't even have to go back that far, 3 From Hell came out like a month ago after 31 it would take a lot to get me to watch another rob zombie movie.
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Oct 7, 2019 19:34
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mastershakeman posted:Did Todd Phillips know about Bernie goetz or is this just a big coincidence Phillips was trying to create a not white supremacist version of the Goetz shooting. I find it ridiculous how it took so long to pin the shooting on Arthur. He got fired for having the gun on the same day of shooting. There was that woman on the bus on who was a witness and the people who saw him leave the the station.
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Oct 7, 2019 20:12
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:The timeline with the Bruce Wayne stuff is pretty funny. Batman is gonna be out there beating the poo poo out a like 60-year old Joker I guess? I mean, probably not, but it's fun to speculate. Just think it's odd that they're doing a bunch of DC comic movies in a row all set in the 80s and 90s, but they're not tied together? EDIT: Even Phillips is hinting that maybe Fleck maybe inspired the "real Joker" https://uk.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/joker-director-addresses-fan-theory-about-arthur-flecks-ties-to-batman?sf110261030=1
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Oct 7, 2019 20:51
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The Clown Heights Riot (i'm sorry)
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Oct 7, 2019 20:53
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Sleeveless posted:Your reaction to someone saying that loneliness is a problem a lot of people struggle with because it's not something that is talked about or addressed properly being to dismiss them and tell them that it's really not a big deal and to man up because there are bigger problems out there I liked this movie a lot despite its flaws which everyone here has covered (heavyhandedness, pacing, dialogue). Cinematography was beautiful, I loved the super saturated Carnivale style colors of the riot contrasting with the nearly black and white scene in the asylum right afterwards. The colors really reinforced the emotional undertones. Score was great. Jokes: nobody's mentioned the physical comedy so far, I don't think. It really matched the silent movie style - when he's doing chase scenes, slipping around the corners. The water trickling out of the flower in the first scene where he gets beaten up. At the end when he's coming down the stairs in leaps and bounds, kicking around, he's so close to falling down the steps but not quite - skating on the edge just like in the silent film. Lots of imagery reinforcing this same idea of being on the edge of insanity. I liked that the trailer included the line about his life being comedy, and we didn't know that it was at the same moment that he was murdering his mom. Ha! I wished they had done more with visuals and audio to reflect his descent into madness after stopping meds. There was a bit of it but not nearly enough confusion imo. I wanted to feel as crazed as he did. I immediately knew that his relationship was delusion (what single woman in a city thinks it's cute that someone stalks them? what mom can find a babysitter all the time?) and so there was no shock there. I wanted longer scenes with more dialogue (although the quality of what we got was so low, maybe I don't want this?). With so little dialogue and such choppy scenes, much of the movie felt like an extended trailer. Finally, I loved the ambiguity of the mom/Thomas Wayne relationship. It's hilarious to me that even in a Joker origin movie, we end up not knowing the Joker's origin. Perfect for the character.
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Oct 7, 2019 21:05
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Joker: class struggle, the legacy of mental illness in a family, violence as justice, a crisis of anonymity, the ease by which we can get guns, economic instability, media worship of the good billionaire Critics: this movie had nothing to say Donovan Trip fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Oct 7, 2019 |
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Oct 7, 2019 21:16
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Chuka Umana posted:
Gotham police, not good at their job?
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Oct 7, 2019 21:19
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Oct 7, 2019 21:24
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Thinking back on it I kind of wish that they had delivered on Arthur's thoughts of suicide and had him actually Budd Dwyer himself on the talkshow like he had practiced or maybe be killed in the aftermath of what he's set into motion by a cop or even a fellow clown. As a serious character study it would be kind of cliche but the rest of the film is already dealing so heavily in existing tropes anyways and as a comic book movie it would have both been a great capstone on the "THIS AIN'T YOUR DADDY'S COMIC BOOK MOVIE" thesis by eschewing canon and showing that there really are no rules and nothing is sacred. Especially if they had taken it one step further and actively avoided giving you the gratification of showing Thomas and Martha Wayne getting murdered on screen for the second time in three years just so you can clap at recognizing the thing from the other thing.
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Oct 7, 2019 22:17
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zer0spunk posted:I want everyone who thinks this thing is a masterpiece for its dark portrayal of an antihero to watch man bites dog. I think the only people calling it a masterpiece are the people who've spent the last decade watching nothing but superhero movies, and honestly I'm okay with that because maybe they'll start seeking out better films as a result.
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Oct 7, 2019 22:48
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Joker’s score and cinematography, and Phoenix’s performance, are all Pretty Good but those three things alone do not a great movie make so it’s basically coasting by on the fact that the definitive superhero franchise stopped giving a poo poo about any of those things a long time ago.
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Oct 7, 2019 23:18
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:I think the only people calling it a masterpiece are the people who've spent the last decade watching nothing but superhero movies, and honestly I'm okay with that because maybe they'll start seeking out better films as a result. Before I saw the movie I read some reviews that called it a masterpiece (I disagree) and others saying it was completely shallow (I also disagree) with nothing in between, so I really had no idea what to expect. I ended up thinking it was pretty good with some flaws. Seems like a very polarizing flick.
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Oct 7, 2019 23:23
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DuhSal posted:Before I saw the movie I read some reviews that called it a masterpiece (I disagree) and others saying it was completely shallow (I also disagree) with nothing in between, so I really had no idea what to expect. I ended up thinking it was pretty good with some flaws. Seems like a very polarizing flick. I don't feel like most critics who reviewed this movie, actually reviewed the movie. They scored it against the incel fantasy they'd came up with or against nonstop explody super hero movies. Calling it a masterpiece is kind of like calling some new movie an instant cult classic, like no, that's not how that works either. Donovan Trip fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Oct 7, 2019 |
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Oct 7, 2019 23:48
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It managed to be cinema, art even, which puts it head and shoulders above anything ever to come out of The MCU. It wasn’t brilliant but it was pretty good.
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Oct 8, 2019 00:25
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