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I'll be honest, the Unabomber is the only primitivist I've really been exposed to, and he just seemed like a proto-incel chud to me.
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Sep 26, 2019 04:15
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Anarcho-primitivism is just believing even more of the same myths as fascists than liberals do and just drawing slightly different, even more genocidal conclusions.
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Sep 26, 2019 04:17
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anarcho primitivism is a good example of the kind of meme ideology that fits the original viral metaphor of memes nicely, because it kills the host way too fast for it to spread properly.
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Sep 26, 2019 04:45
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they kind of have a point in the idea of 'we must immediately do everything we can to stop climate change' but like the malthusian thought it descends from, clearly the best thing you could do is just kill yourself immediately so you stop polluting so maybe it's a stupid rear end idea
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Sep 26, 2019 05:29
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Anarcho-primitivism is just believing even more of the same myths as fascists than liberals do and just drawing slightly different, even more genocidal conclusions.  i do think leftist movements have a lot to learn from egalitarian, non-agricultural societies. they've basically been doing anarchism since way before the term "anarchism" was invented, and have cool social norms built into their societies to defend against the emergence of hierarchy; James C Scott has written some interesting stuff about that. but, most self-identified anprims don't actually talk to indigenous people. they just idolize the same noble savage bullshit that white people have been fantasizing about since the 1600s. it's similar to any other form of conservatism -- pining for an imagined past, with genocidal intent lurking in the background. "we just need to kill everyone / wait for everyone to die so we can live naturally again" is an utterly batshit political program. i do take comfort in the fact that, barring a total megafauna extinction event, living remnants of humanity will always have the option of returning to subsistence living. it really isn't a bad life, provided you make it through early childhood. i'd be long dead by then, though, so not really my plan A.
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Sep 26, 2019 06:30
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James C. Scott's work on resistence and hidden transcripts is great. I worked with a professor who applie his theory to Pueblo resistence to the Spanish and it was just a plain great archaeological study with relevance to any oppressed group. That is my meme ideology, Revolutionary Anarcho-Communist Archaeology Based Theory Crafting.
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Sep 26, 2019 07:32
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dropping in to say that post-leftists usually involve Stirnerites and Egoists Stirner's book The Ego & Its Own is actually a pretty fun read, and his ideas about reclaiming your self ownership are kinda interesting. So we're all scientific socialists, or materialists, and we like to make sure that our analyses stay grounded in material circumstances of our world (your socioeconomic class, as well as gender, race, and other social signifiers that may make determinations about your place in society), aside from what is uploaded into us by SOCIETY w/r/t liberal ideologies and our relationship to the means of production, we also take in a lot of cultural ideology, religion, taboos, etc. Stirner's whole deal is to reject all "spooks" or "fixed ideas" that don't comport with your individual will/desire, because these fixed ideas lead to people becoming enslaved by huge structures of fixed ideological power. It's very individualist, and weird, and to me mostly junk but kinda fun. Obv. w/ these kinds of "we need to annihilate all fake ideas and taboos that hinder the individual satisfying their desires" you get into gross Randian/propertarian issues, like incest and cannibalism and no system of justice aside from like, revenge. By destroying ALL ideologies and "spooky" thoughts that constrain us, supposedly we'll have free associations or "unions of egoists" arise when we need to group up for tasks (production, construction, w/e) and everyone will participate to the extent they want and only to the if it in some way serves their eventual goals. I guess the idea is that eventually you get back to some idyllic state of existence because underneath all of the ingrained ideology and pathology, humans are pretty chill/creative/social creatures, and even benevolent fixed thoughts (i guess just call them memes ffs) will become hierarchical power structures that can be used for oppression, but hey, I'm cool with destroying most of the capitalist superstructure and keeping some taboos and cultural coercion around, BUT THAT'S JUST ME. The funny thing is that, a lot of what'd exist in an anarchic society are exampled in Stirner's writing as "hey this is egoism", like for instance, let's say you're hungry, and there's a table with a bunch of fruit on it. You didn't grow it, harvest it, transport it, or put it onn that table, but you're hungry and there's a pear. You take the pear and you eat it, because it's your property. It's your property because you could take it and eat it. Is anyone going to give a poo poo in this commune? No, that's why its there, to be eaten by someone who is hungry! The bad problems start when an egoist wants to take possession of someone's daughter as their property. It's silly to attempt to destroy cultural taboos that are so ingrained in us that they're nearly instinctual, and in a lot of cases, are, because you're chasing some strange state of being bereft of any ideology. It's kinda like marxism or communism is developing a computer program on a pretty basic but powerful platform, like Node.JS, and egoists are like "nah man, we gotta get down into the KERNEL with some fukken ASSEMBLY CODE, ALL THIS poo poo HAS TO GO" That's why a lot of post-leftists are individualist anarchists or egoists or w/e, because it's seen as going "beyond" what the left has created and accomplished over the last 150 years into something that's more important or worthy. Considering every post-leftist I've ever met or seen is usually a very... troubled person with a lot of baggage and trauma they wear on their sleeve, as well as a lot of uhhhhh peculiar ideas, and I've only ever seen maybe a couple dozen ever, it's a pretty tightknit online cult. I think there's one podcast, and a discord at least for the Extremely Online sect, and it's probably a hosed up crazy den of drama.
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Sep 26, 2019 10:32
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this is really interesting, thanks. i first found out about this stuff when i stumbled on this fun lil study of instagram post-leftists http://joshuacitarella.com/_pdf/Politigram_Post-left_2018_short.pdf and it makes a lot of sense that this would be a great contrarian teen meme thing
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Sep 26, 2019 11:42
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im gonna continue to stick to the theory that stirner was just engles trolling marx with a pseudonym
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Sep 26, 2019 12:20
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Farm Frenzy posted:this is really interesting, thanks. i first found out about this stuff when i stumbled on this fun lil study of instagram post-leftists http://joshuacitarella.com/_pdf/Politigram_Post-left_2018_short.pdf and it makes a lot of sense that this would be a great contrarian teen meme thing Reading through this and by god I am almost tempted to become a primitivist myself because the internet is breaking people's brains big time.
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Sep 26, 2019 12:36
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uncop posted:Well Trotsky was considered insufferably smug by his comrades and that's the main reason why he never had a chance in the power struggles, so he would think of them as unflattering caricatures even if they were 95% faithful. In the UK alone the democratic centralist nature of the Trot parties is often used by higher ups to cover up sexual assault & rape committed by their members. The most prominent example was the so-called Comrade Delta case where the Socialist Workers Party covered up, and accusations of rape were absolved by friends of the accused. Less well known was Gerry Healy's Workers Revolutionary Party, which had among its members the Redgrave family of actors (Vanessa Redgrave probably the best known). The party collapsed in 1985 when it came out that there were long running cover-ups of Healy's own sexual abuse. Such is the fun of democratic centralism, gotta protect the higher-ups.
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Sep 26, 2019 12:48
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animist posted:i do take comfort in the fact that, barring a total megafauna extinction event, living remnants of humanity will always have the option of returning to subsistence living. it really isn't a bad life, provided you make it through early childhood. i'd be long dead by then, though, so not really my plan A. We mined all of the easy tin and copper, so they will never have a bronze age.
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Sep 26, 2019 12:54
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Platystemon posted:We mined all of the easy tin and copper, so they will never have a bronze age. There'd be all the wreckage and refuse left behind in the ruins of our civilization for them to scavenge and our old landfills to mine, should it come to that.
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Sep 26, 2019 13:44
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Stirnerites? More like the ego and the self own
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Sep 26, 2019 16:16
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TrilliontonNixon posted:Reading through this and by god I am almost tempted to become a primitivist myself because the internet is breaking people's brains big time. Is there a meme ideology where you dont think civilization itself is unsustainable but you sure as gently caress think the internet is? Cause thats me.
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Sep 26, 2019 16:17
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One More Fat Nerd posted:Is there a meme ideology where you dont think civilization itself is unsustainable but you sure as gently caress think the internet is? Cause thats me.
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Sep 26, 2019 16:23
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Is Georgism a meme ideology or is it too obscure?
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Sep 26, 2019 16:25
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Is Georgism a meme ideology or is it too obscure? the more obscure, the better a meme ideology it is imo
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Sep 26, 2019 17:03
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One More Fat Nerd posted:Is there a meme ideology where you dont think civilization itself is unsustainable but you sure as gently caress think the internet is? Cause thats me. Tracer Tong Thought BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Is Georgism a meme ideology or is it too obscure? Wasn't Georgism explicitly taken up by some southeast Asian countries?
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Sep 26, 2019 17:06
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Lmao Wikipedia includes William F Buckley as a Georgist
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Sep 26, 2019 17:07
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Farm Frenzy posted:thats pretty much the dark enlightenment And also a major plot point of the embarrassingly-bad-even-by-the-standards-of-such-things Lawnmower Man 2: Beyond Cyberspace.
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Sep 26, 2019 17:14
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StashAugustine posted:Tracer Tong Thought Also Alaska with its distributing oil revenues to the citizens. Georgism's an extremely weird mix of far-right wing ideas (Government shouldn't tax labor, income or trade and generally be as small as possible) with extreme left-wing ideas (No private land ownership, the creation of basic income) so depending on how you define it you can make almost any extremist figure a Georgist because they probably believe in some of Georgisms ideas especially since the Georgism Wikipedia article is almost certainly written by Georgists who want to make the list of Georgists as large as possible.
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Sep 26, 2019 17:50
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Farm Frenzy posted:thats pretty much the dark enlightenment I thought the Dark Enlightenment was more or less "Google CEOs and other STEMlords should be kings" and after Trump won they all shrugged, went "Close enough!" and melted into the greater Alt-Right? Like I thought the point was that the internet was going to be the center of all civilization, and the world ruled by those who ruled it. Though I will admit I didn't really pay too much attention.
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Sep 26, 2019 18:17
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shouldn't it just be called the endarkenment
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Sep 26, 2019 19:25
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Farm Frenzy posted:this is really interesting, thanks. i first found out about this stuff when i stumbled on this fun lil study of instagram post-leftists http://joshuacitarella.com/_pdf/Politigram_Post-left_2018_short.pdf and it makes a lot of sense that this would be a great contrarian teen meme thing The part where he discusses all the various types of accellerationists ending up being "black-pilled" really speaks to me because i've always thought of accellerationists as just being terminal sadbrains trying to outsource their need for self harm, even if doing so harms others. The school shooter of ideologies.
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Sep 26, 2019 20:21
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Now the various kinds of accelerationists are perfect for this thread! Randianism is for plebs, Landianism is where it's at.
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Sep 26, 2019 21:17
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Big Mad Drongo posted:I thought the Dark Enlightenment was more or less "Google CEOs and other STEMlords should be kings" and after Trump won they all shrugged, went "Close enough!" and melted into the greater Alt-Right? i havent really investigated beyond reading 'neoreaction: a basilisk' but from what i understand the dark enlightenment is sort of split between the moldbug guys who genuinely want an aryan CEO-king and the nick land types just think that the CEO-kings are an intermediary step before capitalism develops into a super AI that kills humanity with genocide and climate change and escapes into space. in practice theyre all just pepe dipshits now yes
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Sep 27, 2019 12:55
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Farm Frenzy posted:i havent really investigated beyond reading 'neoreaction: a basilisk' but from what i understand the dark enlightenment is sort of split between the moldbug guys who genuinely want an aryan CEO-king and the nick land types just think that the CEO-kings are an intermediary step before capitalism develops into a super AI that kills humanity with genocide and climate change and escapes into space. in practice theyre all just pepe dipshits now yes As with pretty much every other quasi-fascist/fascist ideology, Neoreactionism/dark enlightenment "thought" is fundamentally incoherent cover for naked resentment and spite.
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Sep 27, 2019 13:46
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StashAugustine posted:Tracer Tong Thought Taiwan is big on it iirc
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Sep 27, 2019 16:23
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I find it really weird that Mark Fisher hung out with a bunch of DE types at that Warwick unit
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Sep 27, 2019 17:17
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dpf posted:I find it really weird that Mark Fisher hung out with a bunch of DE types at that Warwick unit A lot of them started out as nominally left and went loving insane IIRC
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Sep 27, 2019 17:48
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Farm Frenzy posted:i havent really investigated beyond reading 'neoreaction: a basilisk' but from what i understand the dark enlightenment is sort of split between the moldbug guys who genuinely want an aryan CEO-king and the nick land types just think that the CEO-kings are an intermediary step before capitalism develops into a super AI that kills humanity with genocide and climate change and escapes into space. in practice theyre all just pepe dipshits now yes Better start writing code or Cyberking George 6.0 might torture your WoW character 70 years from now
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Sep 27, 2019 20:55
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StashAugustine posted:A lot of them started out as nominally left and went loving insane IIRC the collapse of the dot-com bubble broke their brains, maybe
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Sep 27, 2019 20:58
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Wasn't Georgism explicitly taken up by some southeast Asian countries? [/quote] Singapore used it twice pretty good effect iirc
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Sep 27, 2019 21:06
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https://twitter.com/noahpinion/status/1052004838131654657?s=21 Taiwan is an interesting case of non-leftist land reform succeeding
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Sep 27, 2019 21:22
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Helps that they had the US backing them to the hilt to stick it to China so they wouldn't just get couped
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Sep 28, 2019 15:52
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StashAugustine posted:Helps that they had the US backing them to the hilt to stick it to China so they wouldn't just get couped Excuse me, I think you meant the US backing China to help liberate the mainland from communist rebel bands.
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Sep 28, 2019 18:58
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Oct 7, 2019 22:47
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mods namechange to Silicon Age Pervert
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Oct 7, 2019 22:55
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And every single one of them has a twitter av of either an anime girl or a Greek statue.
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Oct 7, 2019 23:45
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