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Jippa posted:I only just actually read details of that american diplomat's wife who fled the country. I have never understood the concept of diplomatic immunity at all. Can someone explain what the justification is for it? I have a decent idea why it exists (to mutually protect spies on foreign soil) but when it results in vast amounts of unpaid parking fines at best, and dead motorists at worst, what the gently caress is it actually there for? E: 73 years ago on 7 October 1946, the BBC Light Programme broadcasts the first ever episode of Woman's Hour.
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Oct 8, 2019 09:38
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CGI Stardust posted:Maybe see if there are any jobs available in the green / environment sector for software developers? Would be a pay cut, but you've got a buffer of cash there. Lol at giving AoF sincere advice on changing his life for the better
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Oct 8, 2019 09:38
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thespaceinvader posted:I have never understood the concept of diplomatic immunity at all. Same reason parliament can't be prosecuted for the things it does.
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Oct 8, 2019 09:41
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Barry Foster posted:Lol at giving AoF sincere advice on changing his life for the better It's good advice for lurkers in similar situations. FWIW I'm doing something similar (trying to either work for myself in a creative area, or find part-time work in a non-evil organisation of some sort but it is a hard row to hoe, especially without much in the way of specialist training.
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Oct 8, 2019 09:42
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GOONS the Queen is visiting the housing complex my parents live at when I'm scheduled to visit. It's essentially council housing for former service workers like ambulance drivers and firefighters. The people there are very sweet and have been nice to my parents and it's overall a very nice thing to exist so does that mean I shouldn't yell at the queen? It would probably upset said old people. Is it treason????
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Oct 8, 2019 09:45
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I had a disagreement with my partner over the weekend about XR as there was a pamphlet saying take 2 weeks off work. I was arguing that XR didn't go far enough, were too cooperative with authority and weren't doing much - her counterpoint was that I wasn't doing anything and at least XR were good because you could see someone was doing something. Though to me, that's the rub - the appearance that someone is doing something that has little impact and everyone can slap each other on the back at a job half done. True praxis is posting on the internet, sitting atop a throne of skulls, atop a river of blood, optical nerves grafted onto VGA cables, fingers split across a word orb to pull sigils from the grave dimension.
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Oct 8, 2019 09:45
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thespaceinvader posted:I have never understood the concept of diplomatic immunity at all. Goes back to the ancient "Don't kill the messenger" taboo - it's handy to be able to talk to your enemies sometimes (EG: To make peace), and none of them will show up to talk to you if you always kill or imprison them when they do, so there's a level of immunity inherently necessary to diplomacy. I guess there's also the possibility that a person or group could incriminate a diplomat or a member of their family and use that as blackmail. If the diplomat and their family cannot commit crimes, this isn't an issue. Presumably the convention is that a person who abuses diplomatic immunity tends to get dealt with by their home country for making them look bad, but "convention" instead of "rules" is a political problem we're beginning to see the effects of throughout our systems.
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Oct 8, 2019 09:46
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CGI Stardust posted:Maybe see if there are any jobs available in the green / environment sector for software developers? Would be a pay cut, but you've got a buffer of cash there. Hey, when you say music what is it you're doing exactly? I'm interested because I'd love to do the exact opposite career swap in the future and wondering what would be a realistic option... (thinking in some support roll/tech)
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Oct 8, 2019 09:46
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thespaceinvader posted:I have a decent idea why it exists (to mutually protect spies on foreign soil) but when it results in vast amounts of unpaid parking fines at best, and dead motorists at worst, what the gently caress is it actually there for?
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Oct 8, 2019 09:46
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justcola posted:I had a disagreement with my partner over the weekend about XR as there was a pamphlet saying take 2 weeks off work. I was arguing that XR didn't go far enough, were too cooperative with authority and weren't doing much - her counterpoint was that I wasn't doing anything and at least XR were good because you could see someone was doing something. Though to me, that's the rub - the appearance that someone is doing something that has little impact and everyone can slap each other on the back at a job half done. Tell your wife about Earthstrike, who are also tackling climate change while actually understanding how protesting works
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Oct 8, 2019 09:49
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tritsch posted:Hey, when you say music what is it you're doing exactly? I'm interested because I'd love to do the exact opposite career swap in the future and wondering what would be a realistic option... (thinking in some support roll/tech) Y'all should just swap jobs without telling anyone and see how long it takes someone to notice tbh. Guavanaut posted:It's inherited from the era when the unit of sovereignty was the monarch and there'd be endless games where one monarch would send his guys to deliver a message to another, and they'd kidnap them and ransom them out, and it ended up as such a ballache that everyone agreed that a person working on the direct instruction of a recognized monarch was in that monarch's jurisdiction at all times. I don't get how diplomatic immunity prevents kidnapping though? Even given that directive, there's still nothing stopping possession being 9/10 of the law. Gort posted:Goes back to the ancient "Don't kill the messenger" taboo - it's handy to be able to talk to your enemies sometimes (EG: To make peace), and none of them will show up to talk to you if you always kill or imprison them when they do, so there's a level of immunity inherently necessary to diplomacy. Just actually. But I digress. So basically it's a pointless, harmful, archaic leftover of a former time that is univerally retained because corruption and power imbalances demand it be? That's what I thought.
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Oct 8, 2019 09:50
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justcola posted:Though to me, that's the rub - the appearance that someone is doing something that has little impact and everyone can slap each other on the back at a job half done. That's true, but I do think they have a positive impact by keeping the issue in the news. People want to pretend it's not happening and they shouldn't be allowed to do so.
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Oct 8, 2019 09:51
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thespaceinvader posted:I don't get how diplomatic immunity prevents kidnapping though? Even given that directive, there's still nothing stopping possession being 9/10 of the law. Which historically speaking often happened.
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Oct 8, 2019 09:53
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justcola posted:I had a disagreement with my partner over the weekend about XR as there was a pamphlet saying take 2 weeks off work. I was arguing that XR didn't go far enough, were too cooperative with authority and weren't doing much - her counterpoint was that I wasn't doing anything and at least XR were good because you could see someone was doing something. Though to me, that's the rub - the appearance that someone is doing something that has little impact and everyone can slap each other on the back at a job half done. Yeah basically it's why many of them are so blasè about being arrested. They think they're just making a statement that the authorities will understand and they can basically walk it off. The actual experience of being bashed, kettled and imprisoned is going to cause significant damage to that self image.
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Oct 8, 2019 09:54
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Guavanaut posted:Because if you do I'll kidnap your guys and then everything breaks down unless we have a war. I don't get how dipliomatic immunity helps with this though? Why does my guys being able to park their carriages where they want and ride down innocent peddlers mean you're less likely to kidnap them when you want to? The two things just aren't connected.
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Oct 8, 2019 09:55
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Captain Fargle posted:Obligatory plug with all the climate change talk for just going out there and planting a bunch of goddamn trees. You don't need someone's permission, you don't need to be organised into a group, just get some trees and go out and plant them. I feel like this got asked before, but how do you pick spots where they aren't just going to get dug up by someone? I'm struggling to think of anywhere that new trees wouldn't obviously stick out, since any unused green space is generally either partitioned off into fields or is filled with plant life already. And do the trees come with any guidance on where to plant, how deep, spacing, etc? That seems relevant as to whether you're actually helping things long term or if a bunch of fledgling trees are going to get dug up by someone who knows what they're actually doing, or wind up dead in a decade because you've plonked them down in a poo poo spot.
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Oct 8, 2019 09:57
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thespaceinvader posted:I don't get how dipliomatic immunity helps with this though?
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Oct 8, 2019 09:58
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I think the suggestion was that if you put a tube around them or stakes people will just think they're supposed to be there.
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Oct 8, 2019 09:58
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thespaceinvader posted:I don't get how dipliomatic immunity helps with this though? Police harrassment because ACAB. If someone were so minded there's a lot of petty and awful laws you can find yourself breaking or under investigation for. OwlFancier posted:I think the suggestion was that if you put a tube around them or stakes people will just think they're supposed to be there. But enough about the foundations of private property. vvvv drat that's much better namesake fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 09:59
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OwlFancier posted:I think the suggestion was that if you put a tube around them or stakes people will just think they're supposed to be there.
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Oct 8, 2019 09:59
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thespaceinvader posted:I don't get how dipliomatic immunity helps with this though? What it prevents is one side doing a legal arrest and the other interpreting that as a kidnapping If you are going to have a button on your desk that starts a war, the least you can do is label it clearly.
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Oct 8, 2019 10:02
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thespaceinvader posted:I don't get how dipliomatic immunity helps with this though? Governments, especially the kind you might want diplomatic immunity from, have a tendency to charge people they want to intimidate for political reasons with "driving offenses" or make up whole new categories of crime to charge people with. So either diplomats are exempt from all crimes or none of them.
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Oct 8, 2019 10:04
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I mean back in 2002 Colombia waived its diplomatic immunity on a diplomat who committed manslaughter in London so they could be prosecuted so surely the US will abahahahhah
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Oct 8, 2019 10:06
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thespaceinvader posted:I don't get how dipliomatic immunity helps with this though? It's a necessity. There's nothing to stop a country declaring "looking at me in a funny way" to be a crime and using that to lock up foreign diplomats, so diplomats must be immune from all prosecution. This doesn't remove the possibility of kidnapping, but it makes it much harder for a state to do it without it being obvious.
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Oct 8, 2019 10:07
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OwlFancier posted:I think the suggestion was that if you put a tube around them or stakes people will just think they're supposed to be there. Does that work, though? Trees don't exactly spring up overnight, they'll still be pretty young when a farmer or local authority goes "who put those loving trees in my field/right by this road/power line/sewer main/etc" and takes them out.
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Oct 8, 2019 10:09
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Barry Foster posted:Lol at giving AoF sincere advice on changing his life for the better If he could figure a way to monetize self-pity he'd be set for life
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Oct 8, 2019 10:09
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thespaceinvader posted:I have never understood the concept of diplomatic immunity at all. Almost all spies *don't* have diplomatic immunity, because it's a big old party foul if one of your diplomats is caught spying on the host country. A lot of diplomats are there running spies, of course, but the actual shagging, jet pack riding, and casual murder is done by people with "no official cover" (or NOC, in case you were wondering what all that poo poo in the first Mission Impossible film was about) - people with day jobs unrelated to the embassy or foreign government, because of course they attract less attention. The various attaches that do have diplomatic immunity run these agents (and butter up local politicians). Diplomatic immunity is an old and complex custom based on the original idea that an envoy from a foreign country represented the entire country, and arresting, taxing, or kicking them down a conveniently-located bottomless pit was in effect doing that to the entire country. Between friendly countries it's of course mainly used, as you say, for avoiding inconvenient parking fines and manslaughter charges, but in hostile countries it's absolutely essential for the consular staff to actually do their jobs because otherwise - just for one example - there's nothing stopping a country just arresting the consul who goes to help an illegally-detained person.
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Oct 8, 2019 10:13
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thespaceinvader posted:I don't get how dipliomatic immunity helps with this though? You can't think of any examples where police have used completely unrelated charges to gently caress with someone who is inconvenient to them?
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Oct 8, 2019 10:14
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Carborundum posted:To me XR and FBPE (wonder what that Venn diagram looks like?) are manifestations of the same thing, middle class liberals realising that they are just another voting block and they have to advocate for their interests. Since, compared to Left movements, they are much closer to power and are much more bought into the status quo you'd hardly expect them to want to shake things up too much. The motto of XR should be "Things are so bad that I, an upper middle class liberal professional/professor, have take the most extreme action I can think of which is moving my rear end out on the street and shouting moderately loudly while the friendly cops keep the peace"
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Oct 8, 2019 10:15
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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sebzilla posted:If they all spent their time and money and effort campaigning for Labour we might be carbon neutral as a country by 2030. They've really gone hard in on the citizen's assembly thing - moreso than just monitoring, also to drive political policy - to quote from https://rebellion.earth/the-truth/demands/: quote:The Citizens’ Assembly on Climate and Ecological Justice will bring together ordinary people to investigate, discuss and make recommendations on how to respond to the climate emergency. Similar to jury service, members will be randomly selected from across the country. The process will be designed to ensure that the Assembly reflects the whole country in terms of characteristics such as gender, age, ethnicity, education level and geography. Assembly members will hear balanced information from experts and those most affected by the emergency. Members will speak openly and honestly in small groups with the aid of professional facilitators. Together they will work through their differences and draft and vote on recommendations. Climate change really isn't something that noticibly affecting the general UK public (yet) while at the same time, an assembly representative of the country's current demographics would heavily skew towards those that are not going to be affected by climate change. I am also not convinced that a citizen's assembly would be able to make firm and detailed recommendations outside of things like "reduce emissions" and "less plastics" while also not being able to provide the necessary detail required to implement such recommendations - climate change and environmental issues are complex issues that will require economic retooling at all levels on a global scale. quote:The Citizens’ Assembly will be run by non-governmental organisations under independent oversight. This is the fairest and most powerful way to cut through party politics. It will empower citizens to actually work together and take responsibility for our climate and ecological emergency. Yes, cut through the party politics even recommendations would still have to be legislated by the party political UK parliament and enacted by the party political UK government. Their main example of a citizen's assembly: quote:Citizens’ Assemblies are used to address important issues that electoral politics can’t fix on its own. In recent years, Ireland’s Citizens’ Assembly broke the deadlock on two controversial issues: same-sex marriage and abortion. The recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly informed public debate and provided politicians cover to make the necessary changes. A subsequent Citizens’ Assembly on Climate Change produced a series of recommendations that were incorporated into the Irish government’s action plan. It really annoys me how they try to equate past societal changes with their movement - like how they model themselves on the civil rights movement in the USA, which again, simply required simple legislative change and modifications to resolve (notwithstanding still ongoing institutionalised and societal racism and how enough has not been done to address it). quote:This is an emergency. The challenges are big, wide-ranging and complex. And solutions are needed urgently. Yeeeeeeeeeeah let's pretend that we can totally bypass the corrupt politicans and broken political system by having a get-together by lottery of supposedly representive citizens by just ignoring that whatever outcomes they come up with need to be legislated and acted upon by said corrupt politicans and broken political system... I am totally onboard with their other objective of raising public awareness but the whole thing comes across as screaming SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING without suggesting what should actually be done and instead pawning off what should be done to someone else to figure out (even though we already know what we need to do). chestnut santabag fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 10:15
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Does that work, though? Trees don't exactly spring up overnight, they'll still be pretty young when a farmer or local authority goes "who put those loving trees in my field/right by this road/power line/sewer main/etc" and takes them out. Farmers might but what makes you think local authorities are going to know that the official looking tree planting isn't supposed to be there? Someone who knows where the sewer main is won't think the trees are their job, someone who knows about trees probably won't know where the sewer main is, and the odds of either of them paying attention are slim. It's not like either group is likely to be patrolling looking for rogue arborealists. "I don't know who's responsible but it's probably not me" is a powerful axiom. Like at work I regularly walk into places I've never been before with no ID and no prior booking and nobody gives a poo poo, as long as you look like you know what you're doing. It's always someone else's problem. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 10:18
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CGI Stardust posted:Maybe see if there are any jobs available in the green / environment sector for software developers? Would be a pay cut, but you've got a buffer of cash there. Yeah, I am currently doing some online courses on data science and deep learning and the like to figure out what I really want. Hopefully I can transition. Not doing a farm, though. As the climate change thread has heard incessantly I'd rather die than dig in the dirt for 12 hours a day. And why is everyone telling me to buy a house? The difference in rent I'd save is not that much and this country can legitimately be flooded! What is the benefit?
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Oct 8, 2019 10:21
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namesake posted:Yeah basically it's why many of them are so blasè about being arrested.  quote:They think quote:they're just making a statement quote:that the authorities will understand  quote:and they can basically walk it off. quote:The actual experience of being bashed, kettled and imprisoned is going to cause significant damage to that self image.
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Oct 8, 2019 10:25
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XR:
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Oct 8, 2019 10:26
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Captain Fargle posted:Obligatory plug with all the climate change talk for just going out there and planting a bunch of goddamn trees. You don't need someone's permission, you don't need to be organised into a group, just get some trees and go out and plant them. Please plant responsibly. Turning overfertilised grassland into generic trees is good, turning semiopen and open habitats hosting rare plants and bugs into generic trees is less good.
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Oct 8, 2019 10:27
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Rarity posted:XR: I mean, maybe they will get ideas after the likely failure of the government to respond, other than by doing some police brutality
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Oct 8, 2019 10:28
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chestnut santabag posted:Climate change really isn't something that noticibly affecting the general UK public (yet) while at the same time, an assembly representative of the country's current demographics would heavily skew towards those that are not going to be affected by climate change. I am also not convinced that a citizen's assembly would be able to make firm and detailed recommendations outside of things like "reduce emissions" and "less plastics" while also not being able to provide the necessary detail required to implement such recommendations - climate change and environmental issues are complex issues that will require economic retooling at all levels on a global scale. It's a nice straightforward argument: what incentive do a bunch of transnational capitalists have to change things other than their own profit? Whereas if we own our own generation facilities and infrastructure we can make people focused decisions. AceOfFlames posted:Not doing a farm, though. As the climate change thread has heard incessantly I'd rather die than dig in the dirt for 12 hours a day.
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Oct 8, 2019 10:29
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Look if you can't do with an app it's literally goin down't pit and my delicate intellectual constitution will not stoop to such base forms of existence.
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Oct 8, 2019 10:31
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Jakabite posted:There's been some really cool effective stuff around fracking, and there's some decent anti-HS2 stuff right now. Don't get me wrong, on balance I'm glad XR is a thing - they're just also a bit insufferable sometimes and need to actually engage with politics (not in the parliamentary sense). Saying the climate change struggle is 'above politics' is just so laughably and pathetically naive that it makes it hard for a lot of proper lefties to take them seriously. It is good fun to start gently caress the police chants at XR events and watch the middle class centrists get all mad at least. HS2 is good though? Like realistically what happens if it's not finished? Rail remains poo poo, car use continues to rise, carbon emissions don't go down,  Nothingtoseehere posted:2. Replace every car on the road with electric cars. Not just new ones, literally all cars. Electric cars are their own climate disaster, there just aren't enough for it to be obvious yet. But it's just offshoring the costs again like Germany does with its lovely No Nukes policy (that results in it buying wood pellets from America to burn instead). Climate change is global, any serious plan to combat it can't afford to get distracted by things that are "zero emissions at point of use" but extremely dirty somewhere else. Nothingtoseehere posted:Also, developing and deploying some kind of carbon capture tech - none beyond plantings lots of trees exists at scale ATM. Further addendum: tree planting is wank, tree seeding is good. Just let poo poo grow back on its own.
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Oct 8, 2019 10:32
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namesake posted:Yeah basically it's why many of them are so blasè about being arrested. They think they're just making a statement that the authorities will understand and they can basically walk it off. And I wouldn't mind betting quite a few of them are of the "if you've done nothing wrong you've nothing to fear from the police" persuasion.
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