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Niric posted:nationalism would be at least 50% more palatable if there wasn't this weird investment in poo poo things as being synonymous with identity  Jaeluni Asjil posted:I've seen a few of these spiders now on twitter next to fubpees, what are they supposed to represent? Anyone know? e: FBPEs eat an average of 103 brain spiders in their sleep every year. 
Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Oct 11, 2019 |
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Oct 11, 2019 11:27
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sebzilla posted:Sounds great, where do I sign up? At any San Francisco gay bath house, duh.
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Oct 11, 2019 11:29
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Jose posted:lol holy poo poo What the gently caress, where was my invite?
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Oct 11, 2019 11:30
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In context, it seems like he was saying "the amount of poo poo talk about the 'gay lifestyle' has decreased massively in recent decades" but filtered through Bidenbrain.
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Oct 11, 2019 11:38
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https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1182587403162345473?s=20 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1182587408908509184?s=20 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1182587416286244864?s=20
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Oct 11, 2019 11:42
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Corbyn and McDonnell stepping down if they lose the election is a disastrous prospect, since it gives Corbyn-hating morons a very good excuse not to vote for Labour Although I suppose they don't really need an excuse In any case if the next leader isn't Laura Pidcock then I'll be cancelling my newly renewed membership
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Oct 11, 2019 11:49
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Irn Bru is lovely, i'll knife you. But i'm not loyal to the brand - Asda and other supermarkets sell orange drinks marketed as Iron Brew which is nice enough. I just don't get to down a whole cup and belch "IRN BRU! IT'S MADE FROM GIRDERS"
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Oct 11, 2019 11:52
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Jose posted:lol holy poo poo Biden sucks but this actually seems like a massively maliciously edited clip
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Oct 11, 2019 11:56
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Barry Foster posted:Corbyn and McDonnell stepping down if they lose the election is a disastrous prospect, since it gives Corbyn-hating morons a very good excuse not to vote for Labour the only issue with her as leader is she's really young
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Oct 11, 2019 11:57
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Jose posted:the only issue with her as leader is she's really young Yeah potential successors probably don't have enough roots and background yet to really have the same level of trust that Corbyn and that gang have, that's a particularly bad approach from McDonnell if true.
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Oct 11, 2019 12:02
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MrFlibble posted:Irn Bru is lovely, i'll knife you. When I was a youngling and our mate with the fake ID used to buy crates of alcopops, I was the only one who'd even go near the Iron Brew ones. Bru or Brew, it'll do.
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Oct 11, 2019 12:02
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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Jose posted:the only issue with her as leader is she's really young She'll live longer then! Bonus
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Oct 11, 2019 12:04
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Barry Foster posted:Corbyn and McDonnell stepping down if they lose the election is a disastrous prospect, since it gives Corbyn-hating morons a very good excuse not to vote for Labour RLB is also a good egg, and she’s been trained by McDonnell this whole time. That does seem like a bad move to say that, but I’m wary of trusting the journalistic integrity of noted truth representer Alistair Campbell on this until I see the full quote.
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Oct 11, 2019 12:08
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Barry Foster posted:Corbyn and McDonnell stepping down if they lose the election is a disastrous prospect, since it gives Corbyn-hating morons a very good excuse not to vote for Labour i'm on team rebecca long bailey having seen them both speak. both great choices, but RLB said "i'll try not to just rant about thatcher for this entire speech, as my friends know i often do" and that got my support.
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Oct 11, 2019 12:25
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Corbyn may have been an MP for a long time, but he was out in the political wilderness for most of that. When he became leader he basically had no “roots” in the end of the party that actually had any power. The idea that Corbyn should stick around if Labour loses is fanciful. Labour lost 2017 but wildly out-performed expectations so he solidified his position. This time, regardless of what the polls say, the election is Labour’s to lose. The Tories are in complete collapse. If a Labour leader can’t win in these circumstances then they shouldn’t be leader. Having the best policies ever doesn’t matter if you can’t ever put them into practice. There’s not an ideal pool of replacements, but it should now be pretty possible to replace Corbyn without disrupting the left-wing direction of the party.
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Oct 11, 2019 12:30
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Either Pidcock or RLB would be fun, both have the fiery hatred of Tories that I crave in my Labour leadership.
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Oct 11, 2019 12:31
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Just come across this long and interesting article about John McDonnell by Kevin Macguire written November 2018. Shan't copy and paste it here. https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/john-mcdonnell-socialist-kevin-maguire-profile Here's the last paragraph though: quote:On the return of MPs from summer recess, about 50 people marched to parliament demanding a living wage for cleaners in the Ministry of Justice. A woman with a microphone chanted: “You loving shits, you hypocrites, Ministry of Justice my arse.” And who was at the front of this demo? None other than John McDonnell. The agitator who spent his life protesting—and who could soon be in a position to order the department to pay fair
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Oct 11, 2019 12:32
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Comrade Fakename posted:The idea that Corbyn should stick around if Labour loses is fanciful. Labour lost 2017 but wildly out-performed expectations so he solidified his position. This time, regardless of what the polls say, the election is Labour’s to lose. The Tories are in complete collapse. If a Labour leader can’t win in these circumstances then they shouldn’t be leader. Having the best policies ever doesn’t matter if you can’t ever put them into practice. There’s not an ideal pool of replacements, but it should now be pretty possible to replace Corbyn without disrupting the left-wing direction of the party. "haha the tories are sure to lose this time!" - every election
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Oct 11, 2019 12:35
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Sanitary Naptime posted:RLB is also a good egg, and she’s been trained by McDonnell this whole time. The names I've tended to hear as leadership contenders are RLB, Laura Pidcock, Angela Rayner, Emily Thornberry and Keir Starmer. RLB in particular seems to be getting positive coverage - the most recent New Statesman podcast is a good example - although I'm not 100% convinced myself yet. Policy-wise she seems the best, but it's obviously difficult to judge how far shadcab members would deviate from current policy positions. This might be a bit ~centrist~ for the thread, but in the absence of concrete detail I'd be pretty happy with any of these names: Thornberry and Starmer, who are probably the closest to the PLP average, are both solid media performers seem like decent sorts, even if they're not exactly in the UKMT Full Socialism Now bracket
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Oct 11, 2019 12:41
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While I agree that JC will probably be ousted if he doesn't form a government next election - the idea that another leader is going to do markedly better seems laughably naive to me. We're a nation of gammon faced ham brained yahoos voting for the butcher.
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Oct 11, 2019 12:43
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baka kaba posted:"haha the tories are sure to lose this time!" - every election I really do wonder who the hell is still voting for them apart from senile olds and landlords. They're nakedly incompetent, corrupt sociopaths. They no longer represent actual mainstream Conservatism in any meaningful way. It's just odd. Which average wage earning, perhaps ignorant but not enthusiastically bigoted person is voting Tory? What do they offer? I understand apathy and just not voting, but taking the time to go to the polling station to elect a Tory? Baffling. I suppose this is a question about liberal democracy itself - you would instinctively assume that left wing parties would naturally win under universal suffrage, because by definition the majority of the electorate are not elites and would gain more than they'd lose by voting for them. And yet it's obvious that this doesn't happen. Very very strange. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Oct 11, 2019 |
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Oct 11, 2019 12:44
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people who really don't follow politics and lives aren't utterly miserable so just vote for the conservatives because thats what they grew up doing
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Oct 11, 2019 12:46
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ThomasPaine posted:I suppose this is a question about liberal democracy itself - you would instinctively assume that left wing parties would naturally win under universal suffrage, because by definition the majority of the electorate are not elites and would gain more than they'd lose by voting for them. And yet it's obvious that this doesn't happen.  (It's people voting against their economic interests and in favor of their supposed 'cultural' or 'consumer' interests, of which are generated by culture war bullshit and mass media.)
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Oct 11, 2019 12:49
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Corbyn resigning in the event of a loss makes sense. He's old. We won't be having another GE until around 2025, and then we would want a Labour victor to last a full term; would you really bet on him still being alive by 2030, even under the best circumstances? Better, if he doesn't become PM, to let someone else get the experience and name recognition as leader of the opposition to be an effective prime minister in the late 20's. In Corbyn's time as party leader he's put power back in the hands of the left wing and seen the Tories into a tailspin; everything we could have wanted out of his time in opposition has happened. It would be a good time to change leaders. Of course, all that is predicated on Labour losing. I wouldn't bet on that. Although there's no arrangement of parliament that looks outright likely to come out of the upcoming election, so who knows?
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Oct 11, 2019 12:49
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ThomasPaine posted:I really do wonder who the hell is still voting for them apart from senile olds This is a lot of people, and they always vote. Not like they have jobs or uni to distract them.
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Oct 11, 2019 12:52
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feedmegin posted:This is a lot of people, and they always vote. Not like they have jobs or uni to distract them. I've talked about this itt before but it's genuinely interesting (and depressing) to me that a lot of olds are voting for a Tory party that hasn't actually existed for decades, and actively making their lives worse as a result.
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Oct 11, 2019 12:54
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baka kaba posted:"haha the tories are sure to lose this time!" - every election The last GE was the exact opposite tho?
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Oct 11, 2019 12:54
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Barry Foster posted:
A mass exodus of leftists from the party is a good way to ensure Labour never gets a far-left leader ever again
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Oct 11, 2019 12:57
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ThomasPaine posted:I've talked about this itt before but it's genuinely interesting (and depressing) to me that a lot of olds are voting for a Tory party that hasn't actually existed for decades, and actively making their lives worse as a result. Not necessarily, the Tories know their base. Working people's benefits got austered, meanwhile state pensions got the triple lock.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:01
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Pidcock or RLB seem like the obvious options for me
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Oct 11, 2019 13:03
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feedmegin posted:Not necessarily, the Tories know their base. Working people's benefits got austered, meanwhile state pensions got the triple lock. True, but on the other hand you have my Tory gran complaining endlessly about how the standard of care has got worse at her doctors (It's fine, she just has to wait a bit longer for an appointment and then feels rushed). Olds rely on a lot of supplementary services that very much have been affected by austerity.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:04
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baka kaba posted:"haha the tories are sure to lose this time!" - every election I don’t know how you interpreted that from what I wrote. To be clear, yes it is incredibly far from certain that Labour will win the election. My point is that considering the state the Tories are in, Labour should be about to cruise to an easy landslide. The fact that this is not true is concerning.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:09
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ThomasPaine posted:I've talked about this itt before but it's genuinely interesting (and depressing) to me that a lot of olds are voting for a Tory party that hasn't actually existed for decades, and actively making their lives worse as a result. Makes sense, they live in a world that hasn't actually existed for decades as well. New leader chat: RLB and Pidcock are the clear standouts and if the left can keep hold of the party they'll both do a round as party leader I'm sure. Thornberry and Startmer are both solid hands but too centrist to ever be given the leadership role. We can't risk them pulling the party into a backslide. Keep them in good Cabinet roles but don't push them to the top.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:11
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ThomasPaine posted:I really do wonder who the hell is still voting for them apart from senile olds and landlords. They're nakedly incompetent, corrupt sociopaths. They no longer represent actual mainstream Conservatism in any meaningful way. It's just odd. Which average wage earning, perhaps ignorant but not enthusiastically bigoted person is voting Tory? What do they offer? I understand apathy and just not voting, but taking the time to go to the polling station to elect a Tory? Baffling. A few brainfarts over lunch - There are a few reasons for it, most of which have to do with the vast majority of the population do not care about politics, so the limited information they do get is usually very carefully honed and then blasted out during an election campaign - Being the incumbent MP helps. Being the incumbent Prime Minister helps more as the government apparatus is there to make you look more important on the campaign trail - The turnout of the 2017 election was 69%; this was chalked up in previous elections to 'them all being the same' but Corbyn's Labour party were a significant departure and still one in three people eligible to cast a ballot didn't. This massively skews towards the 18-24 age group, who are more likely to be Labour voters, generally under the banner of 'my vote won't matter' - Tradition being a Tory value - in contrast to the young not bothering people who have turned up and ticked the blue box for the last 4 decades will continue to do so without a second thought - Mass media being owned by people the Conservative party enrichens and protects using misleading or false headlines to grab the attention for long enough to instill 'BORIS GOOD CORBYN BAD' into anyone glancing at the papers in the supermarket or leaving the telly on long enough after whatever they were watching from 9-10 to catch the news headlines - Door knocking (especially in rural areas) and other tactics to try and make them seem 'the nice man in a suit' - I still remember getting a birthday card from the local conservative association on my 18th birthday and that poo poo sticks in your mind. This is why it's so important to get as many volunteers to get out and knock or leaflet for your candidate because most people aren't goons posting and reading every minute detail of Brexit and party politics. Seeing someone in a red/blue/yellow rosette the weekend before an election will stick in people's heads if they don't follow politics. - Above reason as well is why there are a lot of right wing associated twitter bot armies constantly agreeing with each other or pushing seemingly unrelated talking points under every politician or journalist of note. - Short pithy slogans stick better than fully fleged policies - note when the 2017 election was called pretty much every Tory rabbited the phrase 'Strong and Stable' one after the other in the last PMQs before dissolution. The election broadcasting rules and a tiny amount of scruitiny undid May's campaign because she doesn't actually have any personality whereas Cameron was much better at the 'deflect question, push soundbite, nod and move on' whenever he was near a camera Edit: two more! - People want to be on the winning team! Its pathetic but it's human nature (see above why being the incumbent is advantageous) The Electoral Commission did a study after the 2017 election detailing a lot of issues with voter engagement and for the UK Parliamentary General Election the awareness is pretty high (but still not 100%) and leafleting is still the best way to engage potential voters - People remember leaflets! because they have to actively engage by moving them from the letterbox to the bin  https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/pdf_file/Voting-in-2017-Final.pdf mfcrocker posted:Pidcock or RLB seem like the obvious options for me Would also like to see Dawn Butler in the mix but she may not have enough cabinet level experience. RLB has always been the heir apparent at least to take over from McDonnell Doccykins fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Oct 11, 2019 |
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Oct 11, 2019 13:12
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Comrade Fakename posted:I don’t know how you interpreted that from what I wrote. To be clear, yes it is incredibly far from certain that Labour will win the election. My point is that considering the state the Tories are in, Labour should be about to cruise to an easy landslide. The fact that this is not true is concerning. Though a good part of that is that the Tories have lashed themselves to a highly popular policy and successfully locked off their supporters from access to more critical media sources. If you have a suggestion for how Labour can pierce that bubble, I'd love to hear it.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:13
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Comrade Fakename posted:I don’t know how you interpreted that from what I wrote. To be clear, yes it is incredibly far from certain that Labour will win the election. My point is that considering the state the Tories are in, Labour should be about to cruise to an easy landslide. The fact that this is not true is concerning. They're up against a media machine straining to protect the capitalist system as well with heavy financial backing from the rich that is running itself dry on the blood of racist olds as it consumes them. The fact that even with all that we're still this close to socialism is a huge loving deal. Just look at how much further ahead we are on this than almost every other Western country not in Scandanavia.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:14
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ThomasPaine posted:I really do wonder who the hell is still voting for them apart from senile olds and landlords. They're nakedly incompetent, corrupt sociopaths. They no longer represent actual mainstream Conservatism in any meaningful way. It's just odd. Which average wage earning, perhaps ignorant but not enthusiastically bigoted person is voting Tory? What do they offer? I understand apathy and just not voting, but taking the time to go to the polling station to elect a Tory? Baffling. For what it's worth, all the people I know who self-identify as (small c)onservatives in the political sense, and are actually invested in conservatism as a political and social entity, have said they will either really struggle to vote Conservative at any election or specifically said that they won't because, to take a running theme from their comments, 'the party's gone nuts'. All the political pragmatism, good business sense, sensible finance approach, encouraging enterprise and social mobility etc. (regardless of how much guff we know it to actually be) has been either outright discarded or the actions so blatantly don't match the rhetoric that the Conservative Party is repelling actual conservatives. The people I know who say they're actually going to be vote Tory are either Brexit-obsessed nutters who will flip to BXP at the first flickering sign that the Conservatives aren't delivering the quickest, hardest, most jingoistic Brexit possible or awful 'I don't support any political party and think they're all as bad as each other...I just want someone to make the tough decisions and not spend all the pounds' self-proclaimed centrists who are voting Tory to keep Corbyn/Labour out. Yesterday I had someone literally say (remembering it word-for-word as best I can): "I don't slavishly vote for one party all the time. I voted for Labour under Tony Blair but I'd never vote for Labour while they're so exteme. As much as I don't like it, I'd have to vote Conservative because they're the only ones that won't ruin the economy and that don't pander to lefty nonsense." Yeah, sounds like you're a really reluctant, dragged-by-the-nose, grit-your-teeth Tory voter there, mate...
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Oct 11, 2019 13:21
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:A mass exodus of leftists from the party is a good way to ensure Labour never gets a far-left leader ever again There's no parliamentary road to socialism, so long as enough people don't quit activism entirely then that's not the end of the world.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:23
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Am I missing some skeletons that should rule Thornberg out of the running for leader?
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Oct 11, 2019 13:25
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https://twitter.com/robsmithitv/status/1182620441426432000
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Oct 11, 2019 13:28
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