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Ershalim posted:I mean, is there reason to think that they'll aggressively attack the Turkish forces instead of abandoning the area entirely? It's vague as poo poo what the plan is, but the guideline seems to be a full withdrawal, with the Turkish incursion being intended to expedite that. Do you think there's a reason to assume that the relatively small force stationed there would attack Turkey (edit:) rather than just gently caress off and leave? Uhh shooting at USSF tends to get u killed?
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Oct 12, 2019 12:43
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https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1182873546688815104
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Oct 12, 2019 12:44
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James Comey Would Like to Help https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/us/politics/james-comey-trump.html Buddy, you've helped enough. WaPo posted:Mr. Comey has conceded that he may have allowed himself to be influenced subconsciously by the political consensus that Mrs. Clinton would win. But he has betrayed no major regrets, defending his chosen course as the best among bad options. “I wish like hell we hadn’t been involved,” he said. He predicted that history would judge him kindly for prizing disclosure over concealment (not, as some Clinton allies see it, opting for spectacle over discretion).
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Oct 12, 2019 13:13
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Ershalim posted:I mean, is there reason to think that they'll aggressively attack the Turkish forces instead of abandoning the area entirely? It's vague as poo poo what the plan is, but the guideline seems to be a full withdrawal, with the Turkish incursion being intended to expedite that. Do you think there's a reason to assume that the relatively small force stationed there would attack Turkey (edit:) rather than just gently caress off and leave? If you're in a position and the enemy shoots at you, it's often much more dangerous to leave your entrenchments than it is to dig in and shoot back. Plus Turkey keeps denying doing it, so logically whoever is shooting at us is in fact fair game if we take them at their word. Whoops. E: a plurality of officers disapproved of Trump in polls all the way back to 2017 or some poo poo, it's not wall to wall chuds like some people here assume. sean10mm fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Oct 12, 2019 |
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Oct 12, 2019 13:16
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The Glumslinger posted:When Pelosi (attempts) to dunk on you, just give up and find a different industry Let’s be honest the biggest dunk on Jacob Wohl is pointing out he is Jacob Wohl. There isn’t anything worse than that
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Oct 12, 2019 13:23
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sean10mm posted:If you're in a position and the enemy shoots at you, it's often much more dangerous to leave your entrenchments than it is to dig in and shoot back. Oh yeah, the armed forces are a mixed bag politically. I don't really understand the logistics behind the military so I was being serious. My experiences have all been with MSF, so whenever something like that would happen (where the area became much more unpredictably dangerous) everyone got shuttled out of there in a hurry, including any armed support. I guess I was just thinking since Trump all but declared the area to be Turkey's new genocide playground that the withdrawal from the Northern Territory was an ongoing thing. If leaving the entrenched position is dangerous and the CIC demands a withdrawal anyway, can the field officers just ignore the order?
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Oct 12, 2019 13:30
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Ershalim posted:My experiences have all been with MSF, so whenever something like that would happen (where the area became much more unpredictably dangerous) everyone got shuttled out of there in a hurry, including any armed support. I guess I was just thinking since Trump all but declared the area to be Turkey's new genocide playground that the withdrawal from the Northern Territory was an ongoing thing. I think this would probably have been true if the military had been involved in planning it in advance. From what I've heard, what actually happened was that Trump had a phone call with Erdogan in which Erdogan got him to announce that the US would be pulling out and leave Turkey to do as they please in the area, and then Erdogan immediately sent his army in before anyone could have a chance to change Trump's mind about it, while the US forces on the ground were probably just wondering why the turks were bumrushing the border all of the sudden.
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Oct 12, 2019 13:41
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pkay posted:Uhh shooting at USSF tends to get u killed? Oh poo poo I must have missed that. How many Turkish forces were killed after they shelled that base?
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Oct 12, 2019 13:44
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Ershalim posted:If leaving the entrenched position is dangerous and the CIC demands a withdrawal anyway, can the field officers just ignore the order? I am not military, but it seems to me that safety of those under my command would be of paramount consideration when executing such an order.
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Oct 12, 2019 13:59
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Sometimes, the distinction between following given orders and rules of engagement /vs/ outright mutiny is made afterwards. If I was a green beret officer in n. Syria right know, I'd be very aware that that declination is still up in the air. They dont want to leave and they dont want the kurds to get murdered by turkish soldiers, but no one wants to create a mutiny against the federal loving government of the united states either.
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Oct 12, 2019 14:12
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PainterofCrap posted:I am not military, but it seems to me that safety of those under my command would be of paramount consideration when executing such an order. Part of the Creed of the Noncommissioned Officer actually deals with this: Two things will remain uppermost in my mind: accomplishment of my mission, and the welfare of my Soldiers. You think about the goal and objective first, then factor in the need to keep your troops alive. For a situation like this, though, being knowingly fired upon by a friendly force, that is some uncharted ground. If you stand by, you technically accomplish the mission by not intervening, but your Soldiers are at risk. If you fire back, then you escalate into a full-blown war and that puts your Soldiers at risk. And for the training and expertise of our SOF folks, a thousand trainers armed with rifles and light mobility vehicles don't stand a good chance against tank and air superiority. Pulling out means your allies die. Staying puts you in the crossfire. And striking back runs the risk of being disavowed, or starting a full-out war with an ostensible ally. Trump has screwed the pooch on this one, and there aren't a lot of easy answers to what comes next. Stay safe, guys. (Fair warning: I am an NCO and not a strategic-level officer, so I don't have the full operating picture or any info that you all already have. Also, goes without saying, stated above are my personal opinions and are not indicative of the views or policies of the US Army.)
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Oct 12, 2019 14:17
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Don’t worry folks, I’m sure Donald Trump has enough political acumen to see us through a skirmish between two NATO allies.
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Oct 12, 2019 14:18
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Rabble posted:Don’t worry folks, I’m sure Donald Trump has enough political acumen to see us through a skirmish between two NATO allies. Where one of them is the sole principle member of NATO. There's a rather significant real world difference between shooting at a soldier from a 'regular' treaty country, and one from the USA.
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Oct 12, 2019 14:32
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Rabble posted:Don’t worry folks, I’m sure Donald Trump has enough political acumen to see us through a skirmish between two NATO allies. Neither of which he cares about.
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Oct 12, 2019 14:32
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Rolabi Wizenard posted:I was in the Marines between the Gulf Wars and I remember being told that, after the war, there was a rich Kuwati who offered to pay every serviceman a bonus for helping to free his country from Iraq, and that Bush 41 refused because we weren't supposed to be mercenaries. I was in during the first Gulf War, this was definitely a thing reported in the news I remember HW saying specifically that US troops were not mercenaries in response when he turned the offer down and I also remember laughing at the idea since we all knew damned well that he would profit from the war, see Carlyle Group.
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Oct 12, 2019 14:35
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So 4(??!) clients or associates of Guliani got arrested yesterday, and another one is in jail in Vienna awaiting extradition. Is there a betting pool for when he gets arrested?
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Oct 12, 2019 14:53
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Comstar posted:So 4(??!) clients or associates of Guliani got arrested yesterday, and another one is in jail in Vienna awaiting extradition. Wait, is this more of them or has the Crime Dilation finally gotten to me? It can't possibly have been only one day? 
Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Oct 12, 2019 |
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Oct 12, 2019 14:55
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J.A.B.C. posted:
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Oct 12, 2019 14:59
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Charlz Guybon posted:Wait, is this more of them or as the Crime Dilation finally gotten to me? 2 were fleeing to Vienna. One is under arrest already IN Vienna. The 4th one was arrested in LA. I think there might be a 5th one?
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Oct 12, 2019 15:01
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I keep thinking of Crime Dilation as what occurs during Crime Labor, just before the birth of a brand new baby Crime.
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Oct 12, 2019 15:06
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https://twitter.com/DNCWarRoom/status/1183014637568253953
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Oct 12, 2019 15:09
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What a guilty loving look this guy has.
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Oct 12, 2019 15:16
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Comstar posted:So 4(??!) clients or associates of Guliani got arrested yesterday, and another one is in jail in Vienna awaiting extradition. Got a link?
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Oct 12, 2019 15:18
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This is crazy https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1183016229545631746
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Oct 12, 2019 15:18
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Shep Smith resigned? https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...7b37_story.html
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Oct 12, 2019 15:21
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evilweasel posted:Got a link? There was a reddit /politics thread detailing all of it...which I now cannot find  The guy in LA was new but I can't find the news article about it either.
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Oct 12, 2019 15:27
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1183016899589955584 He took a prisoner off base to kill him, buried him, dug up the body and then burned him. He lied about it for years until he admitted it on Fox News. They're trying to argue it was just normal killing of enemy combatants. 
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Oct 12, 2019 15:28
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Basically this scene from Succession: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGYjif4P16s&t=142s
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Oct 12, 2019 15:28
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Charlz Guybon posted:Crime Dilation 
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Oct 12, 2019 15:47
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Phoix posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1183016899589955584 His loving view of war is an edgy psychopathic child. Just" the military are just killing machines" take is god drat insane and twisted, and dehumanizing
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Oct 12, 2019 15:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EI-TIUycqk
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Oct 12, 2019 15:53
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Phoix posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1183016899589955584 So I want to understand correctly here. Donald Trump is saying it is impossible for soldiers to murder anyone?
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Oct 12, 2019 15:55
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ImpAtom posted:So I want to understand correctly here. No, I think he's saying they're the best at murder, just really great at it, guys, so what's the big deal when they do murders? That's what they're supposed to do!
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Oct 12, 2019 15:59
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ImpAtom posted:So I want to understand correctly here. Yes. He holds the same view that a lot of the country does, namely that the US cannot be meaningfully be made to suffer consequences for it's actions, and therefore, the US can do no wrong. If we don't punish the soldier, nobody else can, and therefore, we won't and this will make the soldier's actions ok. It's purely a bullying mindset where the only wrong action is one which is punished by an external power. If no power is willing or able to punish that action, it wasn't wrong. This is why he still refuses to pay his bills. Nobody can meaningfully make him or make him suffer consequences for it. E: to be clear he's saying it's impossible for US soldiers to murder foreigners, who are lesser than.
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Oct 12, 2019 16:00
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It's a huge step backwards from rule of law to right makes right
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Oct 12, 2019 16:01
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Comstar posted:So 4(??!) clients or associates of Guliani got arrested yesterday, and another one is in jail in Vienna awaiting extradition. Comstar posted:2 were fleeing to Vienna. One is under arrest already IN Vienna. The 4th one was arrested in LA. I think there might be a 5th one? yeah I think you may be conflating the various stories: the indictment names Lev Parnas, Igor Furman, David Correia, and Andrey Kukushkin. Parnas and Furman were arrested a couple days ago in Virginia trying to leave the country, Kukushkin got arrested yesterday in San Francisco, and Correia is still at large. Separately, their Ukrainian oligarch patron, Dmytro Firtash, has been indicted under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act by a Chicago grand jury for unrelated corruption, and is stuck in Vienna while he appeals the Austrian judgment that would extradite him to the United States to face trial. Firtash appears to be some of the money behind the Trump-Ukraine conspiracy, but he is (as of right now) not indicted for anything connected to it. eke out fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Oct 12, 2019 |
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Oct 12, 2019 16:03
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ImpAtom posted:So I want to understand correctly here. "We train our surgeons to cut into people, then prosecute them when they dismember hitchhikers!" "We train boxers to punch people, then prosecute them when they beat their wives!" "We train NASCAR drivers to go fast, then prosecute them when they do 90 in the Walmart parking lot!"
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Oct 12, 2019 16:03
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If she'd used a real gun she could have avoided charges
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Oct 12, 2019 16:08
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Well after all those female mass shooters, you see, everyone is concerned about the behavior of girls in school. After all, it's not like it's exclusively straight white males doing these shootings or anything.
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Oct 12, 2019 16:08
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empty whippet box posted:Well after all those female mass shooters, you see, everyone is concerned about the behavior of girls in school. After all, it's not like it's exclusively straight white males doing these shootings or anything. Wasn't one of the STEM shooters female? Or was that a different one? Either way it's a complete overreaction and a great example of the school to prison pipeline. Girl should have been talked to by the principal and maybe sent home for the day.
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Oct 12, 2019 16:11
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