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So here is my take on the movie (that no one asked for). The Joker's acts are just the violent acts of a mentally ill man. He is literally Dylan from Columbine right down to the imaginary relationship with a woman who would never talk to him. There is no deeper meaning to his actions other than a powerless man seeking power by committing horrifying acts of violence. Joker confirms it in the TV interview: he's not political and he didn't kill the frat bros because they were rich, he killed them "because they were awful". Where this gets interesting is that the city of Gotham literally has nothing else to believe in so they fit killing the three rich dudes into a great crusade, and it's kinda symbolic of the ultimate joke at the end. The joke the psychiatrist (and a lot of the critics) don't get is that Joker isn't political and has no deep purpose behind this. It's the magic cave from Star Wars - the only meaning is one you force on it.
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Oct 11, 2019 21:26
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He didn't even know they were finance execs, a lot of people seem to be missing that.
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Oct 11, 2019 22:31
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gary oldmans diary posted:The back of the picture of his younger mother: "Love your smile. -TW" It’s from Tommy Wiseau.
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Oct 11, 2019 23:23
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"You're tearing me apart, Penny! -TW"
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Oct 11, 2019 23:30
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Why didn’t even mention it was self-defense?
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Oct 11, 2019 23:51
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I want to see this universe's Batman. Some twisted, alt-right, poor-minority hating vigilante on a crusade to avenge his rear end in a top hat, gaslighting daddy.
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Oct 11, 2019 23:57
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He's come to prefer (as seen in one of his delusions) the view that it was simply intentional. And I'm thinking its also somewhat that giving up on society also entails giving up on convincing them. Similar to acting out when you feel misjudged (for example, deliberately making a mess after being unjustly accused to a great extent of being messy), but in this case taken to an extent that is off limits without insanity. iamsosmrt posted:I want to see this universe's Batman. Some twisted, alt-right, poor-minority hating vigilante on a crusade to avenge his rear end in a top hat, gaslighting daddy.
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Oct 12, 2019 00:04
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Hey i haven’t seen this yet, so I need to ask here. My kid (12) wants to see this with his friends. The IMDb page doesn’t really give me a good idea of how bad it is. For reference the most “questionable dad movie” he’s seen was blade which he liked. So what say you, cd? Yay or nay?
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Oct 12, 2019 00:13
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AFewBricksShy posted:Hey i haven’t seen this yet, so I need to ask here. My kid (12) wants to see this with his friends. The IMDb page doesn’t really give me a good idea of how bad it is. Blade is ten times more violent than this movie but the violence here is Scorsese dark. Not as brutal as like, Casino or Goodfellas. Just very dark and hopeless.
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Oct 12, 2019 00:16
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AFewBricksShy posted:Hey i haven’t seen this yet, so I need to ask here. My kid (12) wants to see this with his friends. The IMDb page doesn’t really give me a good idea of how bad it is. He'll be alright.
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Oct 12, 2019 00:16
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AFewBricksShy posted:Hey i haven’t seen this yet, so I need to ask here. My kid (12) wants to see this with his friends. The IMDb page doesn’t really give me a good idea of how bad it is. The violence is extremely gritty and realistic, enough so to disturb many adults. It's not the same as the cartoonish violence of Blade. Do with that you will.
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Oct 12, 2019 00:22
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It's not violence of a perverse nature like you see in a movie like Hostel where its savored and there's not as much of it as you'd think. Plus his friends are factually seeing it? You're already roped into this one, dad.
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Oct 12, 2019 00:25
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AFewBricksShy posted:Hey i haven’t seen this yet, so I need to ask here. My kid (12) wants to see this with his friends. The IMDb page doesn’t really give me a good idea of how bad it is. Honestly, while it's not the most violent movie, it deals with a lot of dark and somewhat disturbing subject matter, mainly mental illness. While I think a kid could be mature enough to appreciate it, I think you should definitely watch it as well in case you feel any discussion may be needed later.
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Oct 12, 2019 00:32
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iamsosmrt posted:I think you should definitely watch it as well
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Oct 12, 2019 00:35
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AFewBricksShy posted:Hey i haven’t seen this yet, so I need to ask here. My kid (12) wants to see this with his friends. The IMDb page doesn’t really give me a good idea of how bad it is. To add to the above, it's not really a "fun" movie like Blade, so I'm not sure if your kid would be interested in a pretty slow character study. If he is expecting a Dark Knight style Joker, this is not it. If your kid is for some reason interested in a portrait of mental illness, then yeah sure. Either way, teach him to loathe the rich and help him identify all rich people as assholes.
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Oct 12, 2019 00:50
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:Why didn’t even mention it was self-defense? There's a recurring motif of mis- or non-communication where Arthur is either rendered unable to speak due to his laughing fits or goes unheard by hostile Gothamites intent on bulldozing the conversation. Even the medical cards go amiss - the mother on the train reads the card, reads the instruction "please return this card" and just pockets it instead. These incidents are what Arthur refers back to on the talkshow - and to a certain extent the subway murders occur because Arthur can't talk to explain his laughter, and the finance bros don't care to listen anyway.
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Oct 12, 2019 00:54
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It also sort of ceases to be self defense once you’re shooting fleeing people in the back and poo poo
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Oct 12, 2019 00:55
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He probably would've gotten a life sentence for self-defense if the last guy lived and even if it's not a certainty its certainly a fear.
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Oct 12, 2019 01:03
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iamsosmrt posted:I want to see this universe's Batman. Some twisted, alt-right, poor-minority hating vigilante on a crusade to avenge his rear end in a top hat, gaslighting daddy. Idk if I need to see thousands of trump rally attendees in Batman masks.
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Oct 12, 2019 01:36
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Joker in this movie has better social skills than a typical incel because he hallucinates a consensual, supportive and chaste relationship with a woman based on shared experiences, then leaves her alone when he realises it wasn't real.
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Oct 12, 2019 01:45
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Skellybones posted:Joker in this movie has better social skills than a typical incel because he hallucinates a consensual, supportive and chaste relationship with a woman based on shared experiences, then leaves her alone when he realises it wasn't real. You could argue that he doesn’t leave her alone. It’s left purposefully ambiguous what happens after she finds him in the apartment. He could easily have killed her, too.
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Oct 12, 2019 01:58
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I'm surprised no one going for the dweeby "It was all a dream" angel has used the fridge scene. I mean, right after him committing suicide is when he gets the call from the talk show. Or did none of you grow up with the episode of Punky Brewster about the danger of those fridges? Perry Mason Jar posted:He didn't even know they were finance execs, a lot of people seem to be missing that. That's like saying they didn't know he was a clown and singing "Send in the Clowns" was pure happenstance. Though that scene was a strange nod to "Singin' in the Rain" from A Clockwork Orange. iamsosmrt posted:I want to see this universe's Batman. Some twisted, alt-right, poor-minority hating vigilante on a crusade to avenge his rear end in a top hat, gaslighting daddy. So... Batman. JBP posted:Idk if I need to see thousands of trump rally attendees in Batman masks. Batman doesn't go far enough for them, it's all Punisher skulls. Skellybones posted:then leaves her alone when he realises it wasn't real. This is a good point, as I don't think he killed her All the violence in this movie is heavily punctuated, visceral, gruesome, we just see him storming down the hallway the same as when he went in. The only violent act we don't see is the psychiatrist at the end, but we at least see the cartoonish aftermath of that.
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Oct 12, 2019 01:59
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Envm
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Oct 12, 2019 02:07
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What fridge scene? I think I left the theater for a minute. I honestly don’t recall
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Oct 12, 2019 02:28
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DLC Inc posted:thought the movie was ok but also thought The Art Of Self Defense handled themes like violence, mental illness, toxic masculinity better and with more laughs Agreed but paradoxially the people who would benefit from seeing it most are also the kinds of people who will immediately reject the film when presented with it because Jessie Eisenberg is the lead and he's considered an annoying beta loser to them because he did some indie comedies like a decade ago. AFewBricksShy posted:Hey i haven’t seen this yet, so I need to ask here. My kid (12) wants to see this with his friends. The IMDb page doesn’t really give me a good idea of how bad it is. Please don't, not out of concern for your son but for the sake of an audience that is going to have to deal with a bored 12 year old and his friends for the majority of the movie. Like they probably want to see it because they've heard how twisted it is and when they find out there's only like one chase and one gunfight and then the rest is a sad clown smoking intensely and doing tai chi those phones are coming out and those seat backs are gonna start getting kicked.
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Oct 12, 2019 02:44
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Not all kids are hyper active brats my dude
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Oct 12, 2019 02:58
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CelticPredator posted:What fridge scene? I think I left the theater for a minute. I honestly don’t recall I don't recall exactly when it happens. I think is when his mother ends in the hospital. He is having a low moment, removes all the food from the fridge and climbs in, right then he gets the call from the show I really want to watch it again, I kinda feel I missed a few things you guys have mentioned. CelticPredator posted:Not all kids are hyper active brats my dude I'm pretty sure there are kids out there who like movies about a depressed clown who smokes the whole time. And I'm being serious.
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Oct 12, 2019 03:01
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I def did not see that part.
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Oct 12, 2019 03:15
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Blast Fantasto posted:It also sort of ceases to be self defense once you’re shooting fleeing people in the back and poo poo Idk maybe Gotham is in a stand your ground state.
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Oct 12, 2019 03:45
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Blast Fantasto posted:It also sort of ceases to be self defense once you’re shooting fleeing people in the back and poo poo they loving deserved it
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Oct 12, 2019 04:33
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Perry Mason Jar posted:He didn't even know they were finance execs, a lot of people seem to be missing that. In fact it is the media of the movie that elevated Joker to be some sort of man making a political statement and then invited Wayne to talk about class issues right after
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Oct 12, 2019 05:46
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Telephones posted:they loving deserved it Telephones posted:they loving deserved it I mean we know that but legally that last guy is murder. The first two are fair game though.
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Oct 12, 2019 05:47
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Perry Mason Jar posted:He didn't even know they were finance execs, a lot of people seem to be missing that. Who is missing this part?
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Oct 12, 2019 06:19
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What I like about this movie are two things: #1 - The Joker having a relatable, believable, and worthy story to him breaking bad. I mean, most people were saying that this was literally impossible to do, but they did it. #2 - Having the Joker's "world-view"/what he stands for to be the opposite of Batman and have it be somewhat sympathetic. The Joker is anarchy incarnate. He shows why society is so hosed up from the top down. Who gives a gently caress if a billionaire cape crusader fights for "justice" when some of these people are just fighting a corrupt system. It makes Batman's stories look like propaganda.
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Oct 12, 2019 06:38
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iamsosmrt posted:I want to see this universe's Batman. Some twisted, alt-right, poor-minority hating vigilante on a crusade to avenge his rear end in a top hat, gaslighting daddy. He already is that. Also no one deserves to be shot by a clown.
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Oct 12, 2019 12:28
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I enjoyed the movie. The class war vibes were a bit heavy-handed but it's necessary to pound it into the average viewer's skull. Phoenix was excellent. There were a few lulls that could have been tightened up in the editing bay but overall I was pleasantly surprised.
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Oct 12, 2019 13:35
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Oct 12, 2019 13:47
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LesterGroans posted:Who is missing this part? Highly visible critics, or they ignore/gloss it to sell the class war panic narrative.
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Oct 12, 2019 16:08
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Steve2911 posted:He already is that. I haven't watched the Affleck or Clooney Batman movies so I'll disregard those for this post. For the other movies I've seen, "he already is that" only when deconstructed, scrutinized and analyzed. Otherwise, he's still depicted as virtuous and justly righteous. His parents are victims of a random act of violence, not the climax of a class war-fare riot, whose powder keg was arguably lit by his father's own hubris and strong remarks against the poor.
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Oct 12, 2019 16:34
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I've been chatting about this film a lot with people, and it's really weird how they criticise the film for being heavy-handed while also completely understanding its message. It seems like some really weird intellectual snobbery to consider it a failing of a film that it communicates its message clearly. If Joker has something to say about austerity and class war it's a huge plus point in its favor that you're not likely to miss that. Maybe I just really hate the perspective that every film is a puzzlebox to be solved to reveal what it's 'really' about.
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Oct 12, 2019 17:15
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